So despite all of our wants and desires for a sweep this series, it's technically still not impossible. Unfortunately, it only comes true if the worst team in Major League Baseball finishes the job tomorrow against Derek Lowe, and the Pirates sweep us.
And despite a gallant effort by the Florida Marlins, they just fell to the Phillies. So that means we are now no longer in first place in the NL East, and are 0.5 games behind. And are now reduced to also looking at the Wild Card, as well as concerning ourselves with what the San Francisco Giants are going to be doing from here on out.
There's really not a whole lot to talk about in this game. It was the same old story as the Braves offense went stagnant again, and made another pitcher look like the second coming of Nolan Ryan. It was the same old story as our starting pitching once again delivered a solid performance until the wheels fell off in the 7th inning, and Tim Hudson, whom I pointed out normally owned PNC Park, will unfortunately be the one seen as getting owned, by of all teams, the Pittsburgh Pirates.
The Braves had a golden opportunity in the top of the 6th inning to break the game open, when with only one out, Martin Prado had doubled, advancing Jason Heyward from first to third. A strong throw from (who else) Ryan Doumit to the cutoff man was the only thing keeping Heyward from going home. The Pirates had a brief meeting, and it was painfully obvious what they had in mind, as they intentionally walked Brian McCann to load the bases with one out, in order to face Derrek Lee. James McDonald challenged him with fastballs, and quickly got him to two strikes, before taking a little off, and getting Lee to ground into the dreaded 5-4-3 Jose Vidro inning-ending special.
Baseball, as we're all aware is amongst the harshest of mistresses. This is one of those cases where looking back to the box scores, most certainly would not tell the whole story. Tim Hudson was perfect through the first four innings, and had only allowed three harmless hits going into the 7th inning. But it was in the 7th where it all fell apart where consecutive doubles, an intentional walk, and then a demoralizing triple made it 3-0 Pirates, before Huddy was pulled, Peter Moylan got one out, but then the usually effective Eric O'Flaherty was tagged for the back-breaking 2-run homer courtesy of the pinch-hitting Delwyn Young. So despite pitching masterfully into the 7th inning, Huddy's end line looks like 6.1IP, 4ER on 6H, with 4K and only 1BB.
The Bobby Cox Compliment Sandwich: Jason Heyward had an acceptable night, going 2-4. Derrek Lee is not the answer Rick Ankiel is not the answer these offensive woes are pathetically embarrassing. Aaaand, I seriously can't think of another positive aspect about tonight's game to close this sandwich and I'm an optimist, so here, have a tostada.
I don't really know what else to say. It's evident that Derrek Lee just cannot cut it, and Rick Ankiel's whiffs could probably make Andruw Jones or Jeff Francoeur feel a little better about themselves. So close to the end of the road, it's hard to really say what can be done about it, other than some lineup reconstruction, but that's always seen as a move of panic, and we all know Bobby Cox won't let that happen.
This is just off the top of my head, but I'd want to move Martin Prado back to the leadoff spot, for starters; he even said it himself on the radio once, that he would rather set the table than clean the dishes. If Lee were even a shadow of his Cubs days, he'd make a great #3 hitter like he used to, and Infante could be put in the 6-7 spot, simply to get some competent production out of the bottom of the order whenever David Ross isn't playing. But this is also why I don't rosterbate with everyone else, in public.
But anyway. There's likely nothing I can write or say that'll cheer most of you guys up at this point, but I leave you with this attempt to kindle a glimmer of hope before you likely go back to your regularly scheduled agony: In 2007, when the Phillies caught and passed the Mets, there was zero time to recover and try and take the crown back. In 2008, when the Phillies caught and passed the Mets, there was plenty of time for the Mets to try and reclaim, but they didn't, because they were the Mets. The Atlanta Braves are not the New York Mets. In 2009, the Braves simply started their mad dash, just a few days too late; but still managed to put the fear of Pujols into the Rockies before being snuffed out by mathematics. All I'm saying is that yes, it most certainly does suck to lose this game, lose first place, and run a greater risk of another post-season-less October. But there is still more than adequate time, and we're still in a very adequate position to change things before October 3rd. But it's nothing that we can control, other than well wishes for the boys we root for; remember - A Braves salvage tomorrow, and a Marlins win turns it right back around, and suddenly the Bipolar-coaster has just gotten a little more interesting.
Derek Lowe vs. Zach Duke, tomorrow night. And if you must know, Andrew Miller vs. Cole Hamels. And what the hell, Barry Zito vs. Dan Hudson.
0 recs | 186 comments
No matter tonight’s result, it is hard to imagine that the games at the end of the year will not have incredible importance to the Phillies and the Braves. It will surely be nerve-wracking the whole way, but that will just make it more exciting. Thanks to the schedule people this year, and I look forward to a lot of fun baseball between now and then.
FWIW, the Phillies make some really crappy pitchers look really good from time to time. It is not just a disease peculiar to the Braves.
RememberthePhitans - September 7, 2010
looking forward to those games, i hope they are critical cuz that would be fun to watch
i hope we also miss halladay, hamels and oswalt in the rotation lol
ATLBRVS_19 - September 7, 2010
Probably not likely
The rotation was pretty much set up to ensure that the Braves will see Halladay and Oswalt in both series, which obviously, will not be fun, considering the only Brave who could actually score off of him was Chipper.
royhobbs - September 7, 2010
Oswalt has nightmares about the Braves:
0-3, 7.58 ERA, .354 BAA in seven starts.
TonyAlmeyda - September 8, 2010
But in games that really, really matter
NLDS 04-05:
3 starts, 2-0, 2.96 ERA, .276 BAA, in 18.2IP
And we just lost to Brian Burres and James McDonald.
royhobbs - September 8, 2010
I agree
No matter what way Phillies or Braves fans look at it, it’s pretty hard to actually fathom that one our teams will be out of contention by the time the two head-to-head series come to fruition. It’s almost inevitable that it’s going to come all the way down to the last weekend.
royhobbs - September 7, 2010
if the two teams continue to play the way they are now...
chances are we will be out of the playoffs.
rubbles88 - September 7, 2010
Well ain't you just the life of the party.
royhobbs - September 7, 2010
if i'd have known,
i woulda stuck my “nose” in the mashed potatoes
traphicg - September 8, 2010
The Phillies
Are still given to puzzling offensive brownouts, still have a shitty bullpen and a back of the rotation that isn’t scaring much of anyone. They may win this thing but they’re not the invincible juggernaut that Joe Morgan and their idiot fans think they are.
Sam Jethroe - September 8, 2010
The bullpen has been scary, and I long ago predicted it will be the death of the Phillies this year:
Madson will be overused
Lidge will be hurt-ish
Contreras can look like he did last night
Romero is a turd who inexplicably continues to get appearances
Blanton and Kendrick are pretty scary, though Blanton (for a #4) hasn’t been awful lately — he probably came back from his injury too soon.
The offensive brownouts (great term, btw) have resulted in part from injuries, I think, and hopefully, those are mostly over.
The team is probably better now than they were at the start of the year, though they do have holes that you identified.
RememberthePhitans - September 8, 2010
For what it's worth...
That post proves that you don’t fall under the rubric of “idiot fans.”
That’s about as much good nature as I can muster right now.
Sam Jethroe - September 8, 2010
In all honesty...
we probably don’t deserve 1st place after this series, we’ll just have to earn it the rest of the way
CoxXx - September 7, 2010
+1
gtbravesfan - September 7, 2010
Couldn't agree more.
E-Lizz - September 7, 2010
Yep.
I don’t care if it is seen as a panic move. This lineup should have been reconstructed weeks ago and keeping up appearances is no excuse for not doing so. McCann needs to be behind Lee and Heyward in front of him. That’s lefty-righty-lefty (so Graeme Lloyd can’t be brought in, which is something that clearly left a scar on Bobby’s brain) and it puts JHey in at #3. Martin and Omar should go 1-2. I don’t think I’ve ever made out a proposed lineup of my choosing here and I’ve barely alluded to these kinds of things at all, but this is a crying need at this point.
I know he floundered tonight but Lee has actually hit the ball fairly well of late. Given some lineup protection, I think he would produce far better than he has.
Sam Jethroe - September 7, 2010
im still baffled
why heyward isnt hitting 3rd
CoxXx - September 8, 2010
replace Lee with Freeman and you’ve got something.
Broccoman - September 8, 2010
What have you seen from Freeman to say he needs to replace Lee at this point?
dunnytwogloves - September 8, 2010
I’d say it’s more lee’s rally killing dp than anything freeman has done.
telemakhos - September 8, 2010
Pathetic
Not much else to say.
See the Braves are so terrible on the road the WC would be useless to us, as we would have to win at least one game on the road.
For the Disney Braves fans (those perpetually optimistic despite losing 5/6 to the bottom feeders of the NL), tell me why I should still be happy about where this team is right now. Please.
Jman781 - September 7, 2010 via mobile
A reason to still be happy: We're not dead and burried... yet.
A second reason: We’re not the Mets.
E-Lizz - September 7, 2010
I endorse #2. Like, a lot.
J-Freak - September 8, 2010
Second reason to be happy:
at the end of our other all-time low this season (9 game losing streak) we turned it on and was the hottest team in baseball for 3 months
ATLBRVS_19 - September 7, 2010
Well
There’s still 26 games left in the season, and the Phillies made up 7 games in 17 games once before, so I’m hoping that 0.5 games in 26. Crap teams beat good teams all the time, in every sport, who’s to say that Jason Marquis, or Hisanori Takahashi won’t have a good day out of nowhere to topple the Phillies? The Phillies also have nothing but NL East opponents from here on out, too. Who’s to say that the Nationals’ youth movement isn’t going to give the Phillies fits, or the Marlins perpetual chip on the shoulders have them believing that they can still sneak in? Still a lot of time left, that’s really all.
royhobbs - September 7, 2010
this
There is a plenty of baseball to be played and even though I’m,I think everyone is, mad we lost the lead, I’m confident we can gain it again.
Braves24 - September 7, 2010
Braves/Pirates series < Philles/Astros series. The Phillies lost 4 straight to the Astros. Cheer up. Could be worse.
RememberthePhitans - September 8, 2010
nats
always give the phillies fits late in the year… ugh thanks for reminding me
PHIGHTINPHILS - September 8, 2010
The only reason why the Nationals had 56 wins last year
Was because they swept us on the final weekend of the year. Swept us in a four game series. Sure, it was a meaningless series, but you never want to get swept in four by a team like the Nationals … or Astros.
royhobbs - September 8, 2010
23 games left, actually.
1 @ PIT
4 vs. STL
3 vs. WAS
3 @ NYM
3 @ PHI
3 @ WAS
3 vs. FLA
3 vs. PHI
= 23
TonyAlmeyda - September 8, 2010
cant think of 1 reason
the team that remained in first place so long is the one that had Glaus and Chipper in the lineup. neither player is what they used to be but they both drove in runs. the braves have great pitching – but if we cant score runs, cant win.
llabyug - September 7, 2010
We still win 42% on the road, that’s more than 1 out of 3 in a 5-game series. We win 72% at home, that averages us winning both at home. Win 3 of 5, move on to the next round.
NLCS, 42% on the road is closer to a split than 1 of 4, win 2 of 4 on the road. 3 games at home, win 72%, that’s 2 of 3. Win 4 of 7, move on to the WS.
Maths, how does it work??
-C
cthabeerman - September 8, 2010
Yeah...
In our last 8 road games, we’re 1-7 (and I am not terribly confident about tonight). It’s really tough to play like that on the road when each game is so critical.
The Braves need to turn it around and fast…
Jman781 - September 8, 2010
I think there needs to be a shake up in the lineup....
There is a lot of good going on in the 1-4 spots and a whole lot of nothing going on in the 5-8 spots.
I propose a lineup of:
Infante
Cabrera
Prado
McCann
Heyward
Gonzalez
Freeman
McLouth
Pitcher
Freeman needs to get a lot more time. Lee is just not cutting it. We took a chance on him and we need to realize it didn’t work out. We all have known that Freeman has been producing all year long. It’s time for him to get more a shot than 1 start and a few pinch hit appearances. I also believe McLouth needs to be back in the lineup a little more. Ankiel strikes out way to much and he has shown no power. I personally would have preferred keeping Gregor Blanco because he was a solid outfielder and a decent hitter. I like my chances with McLouth making more contact than Ankiel. I also prefer putting Heyward in the middle of the order because he can drive in runs and he would do a MUCH better job than anyone else (Glaus/Lee). But that’s just my opinion.
BravesFanScout - September 7, 2010
I agree. I really respect Lee but his health is making him an occational doubles hitter who doens’t get on base. You can’t have that kind of hitter in the heart of your order. How about this lineup:
1. Prado 3B
2. Infante 2B
3. Heyward RF
4. McCann C
5. Gonzalez SS
6. Freeman 1B
7. Hinske/Diaz RF
8. Cabrera CF
bbxxj - September 7, 2010
Try this on for size.
RememberthePhitans - September 8, 2010
That site is hilarious
Best line-up for the Phillies with Hamels pitching tonight:
1. Carlos Ruiz
2. Jayson Werth
3. Placido Polanco
4. Ryan Howard
5. Chase Utley
6. Shane Victorino
7. Raul Ibanez
8. Cole Hamels (EVERY “good” combination has Hamels batting 8th)
9. Jimmy Rollins
Catcher batting lead-off. Nice.
JamesFromPhilly - September 8, 2010
The 1959 model has Hudson hitting 6th in nearly every linup. He does have a .478 OPS which is not half bad for a pitcher but thats crazy to hit him ahead of Infante, Gonzalez and Cabrera. Its like they tried to seperate all of the Latins from the Americans (and Prado) by the pitcher.
bbxxj - September 8, 2010
Most of the advanced theory on lineup construction holds that your overall best hitter should bat in the 2 spot, and your worst hitter should actually bat in the 8 spot rather than the 9, because having a better hitter in the 9 spot creates more RBI chances for the top of your lineup (who are, presumably, your best hitters).
Lennox - September 8, 2010
When did Tony LaRussa join?
El Soro - September 8, 2010
That doesn't make sense to you?
it does to me.
Mr. Sanchez - September 8, 2010
Cox would have a heart attack if he he posted this lineup they gave me
1. Heyward
2. McCann
3. Infante
4. Hinkse/Diaz
5. Prado
6. Gonzalez
7. Freeman
8. Hudson
9. Cabrera
McCann hitting second would be pretty amusing.
bbxxj - September 8, 2010
I dig that order.
We’d be up 2-0, or 1-0 with Mac on second base and no outs, pretty often. We haven’t had an orthodox lineup (jackrabbits at the top) since Rafael left for LA. Maybe it’s time to think way outside the box.
Sam Jethroe - September 8, 2010
YES....YES....YES....YES.....YES
JKowalek - September 7, 2010
and even more
YES
JKowalek - September 7, 2010
I think we were playing better before Lee came.
rubbles88 - September 7, 2010
And I stopped reading right there.
Lennox - September 7, 2010
unless he’s talking about miguel cabrera, he can’t be serious.
telemakhos - September 8, 2010
or Francisco
VivaLosBravos - September 8, 2010
Came here to say this. There’s not enough alcohol on earth to convince me that’s a good idea.
J-Freak - September 8, 2010
Well you should have kept reading.
Why would we bat our three best hitters 1-3 and then have absolutely nothing behind them to drive them in. I don’t think Cabrera is a great hitter but i think he can do the little things like, moving a runner from second to third or getting down a sac bunt. That is the kind of hitter you want batting second. Teams are learning that if they can get past our 4th hitter they can get out of innings with runners on. When i talk to fans of opposing teams they say the person they would less like to face is Jason Heyward. In the 5 spot he can do a lot of damage. You could also put a lineup of:
Infante
Prado
Heyward
McCann
Freeman
Gonzalez
Hinske
Cabrera
Pitcher
Heyward is put in a spot to drive in runs and Freeman is in a spot to do the same. Basically we can’t have Lee or Glaus in the lineup and expect any kind of production from the 5 spot. The 5 spot is a black hole and it is costing us a ton of runs.
BravesFanScout - September 8, 2010
You want all your best hitters bunched together
That way, it’s more likely for them to score, than spreading them out over a lineup.
What happens when it’s bottom of the 9th, and you have a Cabrera to the plate instead of Heyward? You want to absolutely maximize the number of ABs for your best hitters, which is why putting them 1-4 is best. I would think Prado/Infante/Heyward/McCann would be best, but recognize the L/L in Heyward/McCann, which makes me understand why Bobby would put Prado 3rd to split them up.
kswissreject - September 8, 2010
No, this pretty much confirmed exactly what I suspected when I stopped reading.
The kind of hitter you want batting 2nd is one that is, you know, good at hitting, who will get get on base to provide the hitter behind him with RBI chances and is also capable of driving the leadoff hitter in. Not a lousy hitter that isn’t nearly as good at doing the things that help a baseball team score runs.
Lennox - September 8, 2010
Lee has got to go
Lee has brought the spirit of the Cubs with him to Atlanta. The experiment needs to end as he’s brought nothing to the team (other than a propensity to choke the life out of a playoff run).
SilverRubicon - September 8, 2010
THIS
John Holton - September 8, 2010
fuck this, fuck this offense, phuck the phillies
phirst time i used this word on TC
JKowalek - September 7, 2010
Can't blame you. I too am pissed but i'm starting to accept that
we’re just not a championship team. A championship team wins on the road.
rubbles88 - September 7, 2010
I have always thought that Bobby Cox is one reason the Braves hasn't won more
than one World Series despite the dominant run in the 1990’s
rubbles88 - September 7, 2010
And you've always been correct.
Sam Jethroe - September 8, 2010
and yes i was wrong………
ANYONE WHO REMEMBERS I WAS THE ONE WHO SAID TRADE D. LOWE FOR D. LEE….during ST……. but now that we have him and we’re in a pennant race on 9/7 I say give FF a chance. He can’t be any worse.
JKowalek - September 7, 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4jGSvxCRp4&feature=related
SuperNewb - September 7, 2010
I'm just saying
with the exception of a week a vacation and a max of 5 or so nights where i’ve worked til real late I’ve watched live or tapped and watched (without known outcome) the Braves games this year and tonight (game number 139 i think) was the first game i turned off early……..
JKowalek - September 7, 2010
.5 Games out of the division...
1 Game out of the best record in the NL…
Now is not the time to panic, but it is the time to wake up, and KICK SOME ASS!!!
SuperNewb - September 7, 2010
I love the positive thinking!
GO BRAVES!!!!!!!
Jay212033 - September 8, 2010
THIS
fandave - September 8, 2010
same exact sentiment i used to calm my friends down on monday after the phils lost game 1…
i’m just happy that there is a REAL rivalry in the NL East because we both know that the mets are frauds.
PHIGHTINPHILS - September 8, 2010
Embarrassing and surly frauds
To be precise.
I don’t like Lidge much but at least he’s never had to be kept in a holding cell at CBP overnight.
Sam Jethroe - September 8, 2010
2nd place? What?
Scott Coleman - September 7, 2010
Was watching that tonight
Great episode all around.
BTTOP: I’m just glad my football season officially starts Thursday night. Take my mind off of this offense ineptitude.
Tim Goad - September 7, 2010
you know your my boy on TC
but this ain’t a joke anymore Scott. We literally can’t hit at all. Other than that, I live in Scranton, PA.. and it’s pretty damn tough to relate anything to “The Office” that can’t get me to laugh, but this is it.
JKowalek - September 7, 2010
I'm debating a "Reasons why we'll be OK FanPost"
but I don’t think we need one. We’re having a bad week. So what? So did the Padres last week. We’ll be fine. I really think we’ll be OK.
Scott Coleman - September 7, 2010
Yeah but this is the 1st time i paniced all year long...
and those god damn Phillies couldn’t be hotter (offensively)
JKowalek - September 8, 2010
We have 6 games left with Philly in the final week and a half of the year.
Unless we lose the rest of our games until then and the Phillies win every game until then, we’ll still have a chance. And you sure as hell know we aren’t losing every game and the Phillies won’t win every one either.
Scott Coleman - September 8, 2010
Hopefully
Staring right at the bastards will focus our minds.
Sam Jethroe - September 8, 2010
6 games vs Philly
Equates to 2 vs. Halladay, 2 vs. Oswalt, and 2 vs. Hamels… Manuel already set it up that way… I don’t care who Atlanta pits on the mound in those series… He makes one mistake this team is done… I’m not one to give up completely on this team, but I just don’t think this pitiful offense will muster up anything against that rotation…
HansonManCrush - September 8, 2010 via mobile
Are you absolutely sure about that?
There seems to be a bit of cutting off your nose to spite the face in that. It’s exceptionally likely that — either winning the division or not — the Phillies are going to the post-season.
Do you really want to set up your rotation for the playoffs that way? Surely the Braves are going to see Blanton or at least one time.
JamesFromPhilly - September 8, 2010
unless they want to give someone an extra day rest. (assuming the 6 remaining games matter) the Phils are set up to send out Hamels, Halladay and Oswalt in that order for both series with all 3 going on regular rest!
PSUcup1 - September 8, 2010
News flash
The Phillies are good every September.
2009 – .567
2008 – .680
2007 – .607
2006 – .643
2005 – .556
2004 – .704
2003 – .500
The Phillies haven’t played sub-.500 ball in September since 2002. Them playing good this month this year, isn’t really anything out of the ordinary.
royhobbs - September 8, 2010
You’re never covering another series, Danny. 0-2? STEP IT UP.
Scott Coleman - September 8, 2010
Despite the fact that I used to cover games last season
This is the equivalent of like being a AAA pitcher only brought up to face patsies like the Astros
or Pirates, and still losing.royhobbs - September 8, 2010
The Astros are actually pretty good. I think they have the same record as we do in the 2nd half, or close to it. But I smell what you’re steppin in.
Scott Coleman - September 8, 2010
remember? The Padres can’t beat good teams.
Braves24 - September 8, 2010
I'm literally not laughing at alll
I’m watching a DVR of 30 in 30 of Tyson and Tupac in complete disbelief
JKowalek - September 7, 2010
HOW DO YOU GET SKUNKED BY THE PIRATES!!!!!
I cannot comprehend what is going on here!!!! Is it a dream? I wanna cry right now! The Braves are my team and I will never ever give up on them, but I am stuck right now scratching my head. Can someone make me understand and possibly wake me from this nightmare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Skwerly21 - September 7, 2010
I don’t really care how horrible the defense would be. Prado or Infante in LF, Glaus at 3B, Freeman at 1B.
Try it.
Lennox - September 8, 2010
+1000000000000000000000000
NO MORE ANKIEL FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING.
get swoll yunel - September 8, 2010
THIS
given how bad our defense has been since the ASB it can’t hurt. If Prado’s pinky would allow him play second:
2B Prado
LF Infante
RF Heyward
C McCann
3B Glaus
1B Freeman
SS Gonzo
CF Cabrera
ByrneSupremacy - September 8, 2010
PANIC MODE...PANIC MODE...PANIC MODE... Alert! Alert!
But seriously… What the #@$% ??
TurnerTheBurner - September 8, 2010
OT: Post your lineups:
Prado – 3B
Infante – 2B
Heyward – RF
BMac – C
Freeman/Lee – 1B
Gonzalez – SS
Diaz/Hinske – LF
Melky – CF
That’s mine.
Scott Coleman - September 8, 2010
perfect
VivaLosBravos - September 8, 2010
i'm always w/ you man
but take Lee the fuck out of the lineup please.
JKowalek - September 8, 2010
Just replace him with Glaus then.
Scott Coleman - September 8, 2010
I say Freeman!!!
cali viking - September 8, 2010
I like that line up hell we have to try something new this aint working I say play Freeman F**K Lee he’s not doing shit!!!!
cali viking - September 8, 2010
That's almost it
I would swap BMac and whoever the firstbaseman is, to offer him some lineup protection.
Sam Jethroe - September 8, 2010
+10
cali viking - September 8, 2010
That would mean Freeman would hit 4th. If Bobby won’t move Heyward to 3rd, he won’t hit Freeman cleanup. The only guys who would hit 4th would be Lee or Glaus, and it sounds like everyone wants Freeman.
Scott Coleman - September 8, 2010
"Bobby wouldn't hit Heyward third"
Is going to be a nice thumbnail explaination if we come up short.
I wrote earlier that I would probably put Lee in that spot, but I left it open because I didn’t want people throwing proverbial rotten fruit at my head.
All I can say definitively is that having Mac in front of Lee is going to result in what happened tonight over and over again and I don’t see that being anything good.
Sam Jethroe - September 8, 2010
But Freeman would be behind Mac in most games.
Scott Coleman - September 8, 2010
Which is why
I would prefer to sandwich Lee in between Heyward (3rd) and Mac (5th).
Sam Jethroe - September 8, 2010
Or Troy. I wanna see what he can do.
Scott Coleman - September 8, 2010
This. Lee looks like he couldn’t hit the broad side of a 757 hangar at the moment. Throw Glausosaur out there for a few games and let’s see what happens. It can’t be worse.
J-Freak - September 8, 2010
755 hangar
VivaLosBravos - September 8, 2010
Young – CF
Prado – 2B/LF
Heyward – RF
Glaus – 3B
Mac – C
Infante – 2B/LF
Freeman – 1B
Unicorn – SS
Lennox - September 8, 2010
Unicorn love it!!!
cali viking - September 8, 2010
I'm a detroit lioins fan...
…and this game makes me pray for football season. God, I hate life.
telemakhos - September 8, 2010
lol
royhobbs - September 8, 2010
Ha ha, now that is low……
dragonhawk26 - September 8, 2010
on a (stretching here) positive note, doesn’t how bad we’re playing kind of add to the legacy of Chipper Jones?
thenightstallion - September 8, 2010
Just a tiny bit.
Chipper was so good at taking walks, and was an incredibly intelligent base runner, that I have to hypothesize how often, a two-out walk to Chipper has bitten other teams who risked walking Chipper only to get dinged by a stolen base because Chipper knew their tendencies so well, only to score on a single. I really like Prado, but even at his best, he’s not even close to Chipper’s .400+ OBP.
royhobbs - September 8, 2010
yikes!!!!
Please use “is” instead of “was”
-Chip’s hurt and not playi ng right now, but let’s not bury him yet, please….:-)
skymuse - September 8, 2010
Still control their own destiny
With 2 wins in a row (Phillies has Thursday off), we’ll guarantee at least a tie for 1st place. It would be much needed to salvage a win in the finale and then the Braves need some more home magic.
LEastCoastBears - September 8, 2010
I was really depressed for about 2-3 hours (about as bad as I feel for a Braves playoffs loss) but things can really just turn around quickly for the Braves.
LEastCoastBears - September 8, 2010
I feel like this should be said:
Think back to March. Think back to the uncertainty in our bullpen. Think back to checking TC every morning to see what Jason Heyward broke in batting practice. Think back to Freddie Freeman running past Joe Thurston on a HR, and then being called out.
Now it’s September 7th. In March, if I told you we would be 1/2 of a game behind the Phillies in the NL East, I’m betting that 95% of you would be happy with that. And now it’s all gloom and doom. The season isn’t over, and we’re still in this.
Scott Coleman - September 8, 2010
+1
Great Post bro! Still not time to panic at all! I’ve noticed many of the regular positive poster are no longer posting regularly with all the negative folk newbies here!
Jay212033 - September 8, 2010
+1
forgotten_glory - September 8, 2010
That's true.
My problem right now is less that we’ve slipped into second, and more that we look so lethargic and impotent.
Sam Jethroe - September 8, 2010
I dont know about all this
Had the Bravos played steadily well but not amazing, we’d have been crunching and driving forward with optimism the whole season. But we’ve seen them play like a championship team over and over again, spliced with mediocrity and crappiness, and now we’re in this spot.
I’m as optimistic as the rest, but it hurts so much more when we are on top and losing it. Time and time again we have watched our beloved warriors trot out there and make it, ALMOST to the end. The curse of the Braves fan is such…. unless we win the WS it is not good enough.
To be on top for so long, then to watch it slip away, AFTER several lineup moves, trades, and other attempted improvements, is so so difficult. Im not saying we wont win, hell, i think once post season hits we are on paper just as much a candidate to win it all as anyone else, I’m just saying this isnt typical bitching. This hurts.
Go Braves…. sigh….. D Lowe…..
traphicg - September 8, 2010
23 games left...
If we can get crazy hot for the last 10 games and stay within 2 games of Phillies, the playoffs will be ours.
romone_braves91 - September 8, 2010
my opinion
This team was not meant to do what they have done. Stack us up to the Phillies right now. They have the better lineup (even with us winning), and they have two pitchers that would be used as aces at the top of most teams’ rotations (not to say our starting pitching is anything to cry about…haha). I am not saying this to dishearten anyone. I am saying that we stayed in first place this whole time because this team is all about chemistry and showing up to play when faced with adversity. Yes, we definitely hit a bump in the road, but we are about to go home. St. Louis is a tough opponent, but you can make a laundry list of tough opponents we have picked apart at home. Don’t think there isn’t anything left in this tank. Give the Braves a couple games, and I think we see them coming out really strong. Just my two cents.
My lineup:
The exact same as mvhsbball’s lineup except maybe mixing in Glaus a little more than we have been.
As for the whole Lee/Freeman debate…do I think Freeman should see some playing time? Yes, but let’s not assume he will put up the same production he did in AAA. It will take some time to adjust. Lee had a bad game tonight, but he has had some good ones (didn’t he go 3-3 or 4-4 pretty recently?). He is hitting the ball well a good amount, but I think it’d be a good idea to give him some rest to help with his back. Give Glaus a little more time.
forgotten_glory - September 8, 2010
Forgot the most important thing…lol. We are well within shooting distance of the Phils. Hell, we are well within strangling distance. We can easily catch fire and be right back in front. They lose tomorrow, and we win, we are already back in front. This sucks…but we will rebound from this.
forgotten_glory - September 8, 2010
Lee
has not made any sort of solid contact with a fastball
drumzalicious - September 8, 2010
Freeman’s not making the adjustment to major league pitching while he’s standing along the rail watching Derrek Lee ground into double plays. I understand that he’s an unknown quantity but at this point that can’t be any worse than Lee.
John Holton - September 8, 2010
one positive
Heyward is batting .285/.392/.474 OPS .866
dude is flirting with 300 in his rookie year!
romone_braves91 - September 8, 2010
For all those stupid postseason roster threads
we are FAR from the playoffs, and thanks for the JINX! I am not very superstitious but those threads were incredibly stupid to have up during a 2gm lead, which is not -.5
PICK UP BRAVES ITS THE FUCKIN PIRATES!!!!! we don’t deserve postseason right now!
KINGSLYTUT - September 8, 2010
No te real jinx was
the fan shot “Already a lock?”!!!!!! When he posted that the Braves were up by 7 games!
Jay212033 - September 8, 2010
I miss first place =(
How about we take back our division tomorrow and head back to the ATL. Our offense needs to be shaken up a bit. Freeman she get more playing time than Lee, Diaz should be our everyday LF’er and play Melky everyday in CF. I trust Melky at the plate more than McClouth and Ankiel even though he has no range.
Go Braves!!! And lose Giants and Phillies!!
deewill23 - September 8, 2010
This is embarassing
We have just lost a series to the worst team in the entire league to pitchers that are at the bottom of almost every SP ranking and we call ourselves a 1st place team? I don’t care if its on the road or not this team needs to step it up. They did this crap last year in the last few weeks of the season just started playing like crap the difference was we were working on getting into the playoffs via the wild card this year we were actually in 1st place already.
Im just super disappointed.
drumzalicious - September 8, 2010
About the lineup
I feel as though Bobby needs to do some serious shaking up.
Prado 3B
Infante 2B
Heyward RF
Glaus 1B
McCann C
Gonzalez SS
McLouth CF
Diaz LF
drumzalicious - September 8, 2010
Time for a tuneup game against the undead.
To get the offense to break out a few of these:
J-Freak - September 8, 2010
so we went from 97+% playoff odds to 81+% playoff odds in about 2 games…?
these numbers don’t mean a whole lot to me.
get swoll yunel - September 8, 2010
well when you’re losing to a team with the worst record in baseball it makes it questionable how you will handle teams that are at the top of the league
drumzalicious - September 8, 2010
I don’t think that’s how it works, bruh.
get swoll yunel - September 8, 2010
Especially not
With this topsy turvy bunch.
Sam Jethroe - September 8, 2010
also, quick question:
how come it seems like every player wren trades for turns to shit?
get swoll yunel - September 8, 2010
I’ve been wondering the same thing. He seems to have the reverse Midas touch going on. I tried as hard as I could to pull for Ankiel cuz I still remember him obliterating baseballs in Memphis a couple years ago, but fuck it. He’s really no more than a late-inning defensive replacement at this point. This causes me no end of misery, though, since the only guy who could logically slot in is Melky. Blech.
J-Freak - September 8, 2010
Javy Vazquez
drumzalicious - September 8, 2010
Please to explain Nate McSuckypants then. He was added before Javy was sent packing, and he has been on a steady decline since the moment he got to Atlanta, culminating in his abject worthlessness this season.
J-Freak - September 8, 2010
the point i was making
was that not every player wren acquires is terrible.
How is he supposed to know that a guy that was hitting great after coming off the DL would be terrible for the Braves?
How is he supposed to know a reliever that was posting great numbers for another team would come over and blow every lead we gave him?
drumzalicious - September 8, 2010
Acquiring Ankiel and Melky was probably ill-advised.
The McLouth, Farnsworth and Lee situations are just a bummer. Not too much we can do there…. You’re right we can’t predict the future, but it’s not making these dudes suck any less.
Gonzo wasn’t a good pick up, but I’ll give him a pass due to the “Yunel was a cancer” meme.
Overall, it’s hasn’t been too hot.
get swoll yunel - September 8, 2010
I still think Gonzo was an awful idea, and I won’t give him a pass for it. But in the name of fairness I will admit that Gonzo didn’t turn into a pumpkin after we acquired like everyone else did this year. That in itself doesn’t justify the deal moving forward, but at least it doesn’t look like he completely shit the bed on that one.
J-Freak - September 9, 2010
i mean...
ankiel didn’t exactly blow ppl away last year either…
forgotten_glory - September 8, 2010
My fault for misreading you a bit. I was thinking in terms of people acquired this year, who, with the loan exception of Gonzalez who has been pretty much the same, have all turned to bunk. Thus I misread your quick-shot post as saying it was karma for pissing away Vazquez.
I don’t believe every player he’s acquired has turned to shit (see JJ, Glaus, Gonzalez…) but the track record this year has not been good. We’re hemorrhaging shitty players that have been with us less than a full season.
J-Freak - September 9, 2010
This was a case of him trading away a guy and him turning to shit.
get swoll yunel - September 8, 2010
Gonzalez
Toronto: .259/.296/.497, 17 HR’s, 17 BB’s, 65 K’s, in 328 at bats
Atlanta: .267/.332/.426, 4 HR’s, 12 BB’s, 30 K’s, in 176 at bats
Been about the same with less power, but Toronto has been a home run ballpark this year.
Ankiel
Kansas City: .261/.317/.467, 4 HR’s, 7 BB’s, 29 K’s, in 92 at bats.
Atlanta: .216/.310/.318, 1 HR, 11 BB’s, 33 K’s, in 88 at bats.
Getting on base about the same but power is gone and is striking out more.
Farnsworth
Kansas City: 44.2 innings, 40 hits, 12 BB’s, 36 K’s, 2.42 ERA, 1.16 WHIP
Atlanta: 12 innings, 12 hits, 5 BB’s, 18 K’s, 6.00 ERA, 1.42 WHIP
To many men on base
Lee
Chicago: .251/.335/.416, 16 HR’s, 52 BB’s, 101 K’s, 16 GDP, in 418 at bats.
Atlanta: .245/.333/.358, 0 HR, 7 BB’s, 14 K’s, 2 GDP, in 53 at bats.
Had some stretches in Chicago where he hit well and that makes his power numbers look better.
For everyone but Gonzalez we didn’t give up much.
Blanco is a 4th OF on most teams, Chavez is an okay middle relief guy and Collins was the only prospect and he projects as a set up man. Only Lopez out of the Lee deal has any real shot of making the majors and he’s still a couple years away.
Yunel Escobar
Atlanta: .238/.334/.284, 0 HR, 37 BB’s, 31 K’s, 9 GDP, in 261 at bats.
Toronto: .287/.344/.407, 4 HR’s, 11 BB’s, 17 K’s, 5 GDP, in 150 at bats.
I think playing in a better hitting lineup has helped him a lot.
Sadly there hasn’t been much difference between Gonzalez in Atlanta and Escobar in Toronto.
jack dein - September 8, 2010
Thanks for the write up. It’s a nice comparison. I fear we have been in “cruise mode” it seems for a few weeks. However, losing 2 to the worst team in the league with our best pitchers on the mound might stir the hornets nest. Hopefully they come out swarming.
Oh and since this is Iphone posting I’ll condense everything here. Whoever stated that the Padres were having a bad week horribly underestimated it. 0-10 is not a bad week. That is worse than our awful 0-9. I hope they can recover, because I know we can beat them ha ha.
Pavy848 - September 8, 2010 via mobile
The difference this season between Escobar in Atlanta and Gonzalez in Atlanta has been quite significant.
-C
cthabeerman - September 8, 2010
2 months of mediocre production from a lifetime mediocre player does not a justification make. Yunel is not the first guy to have a sophomore slump, regardless of whether or not his tended to be worse than others’.
J-Freak - September 9, 2010
Are we really having this conversation right now?
Scott Coleman - September 8, 2010
What else are we supposed to talk about?
Am I supposed to look on the bright side here?
The guys we’ve acquired through trade recently haven’t done a whole helluva a lot (Gonzo has been all right). That’s all I was trying to say.
get swoll yunel - September 8, 2010
Well we are 1/2 a game away from having the best record in the National League, which is pretty good. And we’d still be in the playoffs if the season ended today, which is pretty good as well. And let’s not forget that we’ve just graduated 4 top-50 prospects (Hanson, Heyward, Minor and Freeman) in the last year and still have one of the stronger farm systems in the game.
Look, the loss sucks and being in 2nd place for a whole 4 hours has bothered me just as much as anyone, but it’s not the end of the season. It’s not like we’re the Mets and have been basically eliminated from the playoffs since late-July. We’re still in the playoffs as of right now, and we’re just having a bad week. Things will get better.
Scott Coleman - September 8, 2010
I don’t recall ever saying the season was over and that we are doomed. Personally, i find it pretty frustrating (and slightly encouraging) that we have the best run differential in the league and are in second place. But! This is like the fifth year in a row that we’re not living up to our Pythagorean winning % by several games…. Either there is a flaw in the metric, or there is a flaw in the team that is causing us to consistently underperform. The “most LOB by a team in the NL” stat quoted on the broadcast on the tonight isn’t the most encouraging of stats in that respect…
It shouldn’t be anathema to criticize this team when it is sucking. It doesn’t mean that you’re a bad fan or giving up on the season… it just means you want our guys to get their shit together and play like their capable of playing.
And to reiterate, most of the guys we’ve traded for this season haven’t been very good… that’s the only point I was making.
get swoll yunel - September 8, 2010
You didn't say it but
it’s implied in your statement(the doom and glom that is). Also what good is criticizing going to do?!?! These players play 162+ games during the summer which takes a toll on any human body. I have learn over my 30+ years on this earth to try not to criticize as much especially when I’m not able to do half the stuff these players can do on the diamond!
Jay212033 - September 8, 2010
So not only are you telling me what I was trying to say, but you’re also telling me any sort of criticism whatsoever is inappropriate because I’ve never been the arena,,,
Interesting world some of you live in.
get swoll yunel - September 8, 2010
flaw in the team. Lack of Power + high OBP= lots of LOB.
Plus many braves aren’t good situuationally, swinging at 2-0 counts when they’re hitting like wet noodles. Try to take a walk. This isn’t the NBA, walking’s a good thing here.
Broccoman - September 8, 2010
You do know...
That the Braves are third in walks this season, no??
13th in average, 3rd in OBP. Something’s got to account for that difference…
-C
cthabeerman - September 8, 2010
dont say that to j hey he will strike out every time!!!
cali viking - September 8, 2010
Prado needs to be moved out of the 3rd spot. He’s a good hitter but he’s a singles guy.
I think Prado and Heyward should be flipped in the order.
jack dein - September 8, 2010
Alright kiddies, time for a “choose your own post”!
If you’re in the “it’s just a bad week, we’ll be aight” crowd, here is your theme song for the week:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIzwyO3c8AI
If you’re in the “Oh dear we’ll never make it to October now” crowd, here is your theme song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDSud7vAH_0
WARNING: Both of the above contain high celtic content. Regardless of your choice, they are best enjoyed with a shot of whiskey. Cheers!
J-Freak - September 8, 2010
Bright spot in tonights game
Mike Dunn
This kid has been dealing since he came back.
drumzalicious - September 8, 2010
Confidence
The team is not showing confidence lately even if they kept saying they are. You can see the difference between a confident team and one that’s not. The Braves during mid-season was a very confident team. They always believe they can win and they kept winning because their confidence shows in how they swung at the balls. Now, the team seem to be playing tight. The pressure of the pennant race may have caught up with them. If they can get back that confidence in time, they could make the playoffs and even through the World Series. But until then….
rubbles88 - September 8, 2010
Apparently they miss Chippers on the field leadership more than I thought. Does it seem to anyone else that the last few additions to the team (Lee, Ankiel, and Farnsworth) don’t feel like they fit in?
Pavy848 - September 8, 2010 via mobile
Frenchy-like swinging at everything will do that
Even our top 4 (except JHey who watches good pitches go by) have been susceptible to the “Omigod it’s in the zip code -SWING!!!!” mentality in the last couple of weeks…..
skymuse - September 8, 2010
If you're depressed, go check out HBO
Role Models never fails to disappoint. What a movie.
Scott Coleman - September 8, 2010
1 week HBO boycott
due to the extreme, intensely horrible latest episode of Entourage…. Man that series has been like the ’10 Braves….
traphicg - September 8, 2010
I would love
For a Brave to start dating Sasha Grey. Moylan seems like the obvious choice.
Sam Jethroe - September 8, 2010
this
hilarious
Braves24 - September 8, 2010
At least ZIPS still has us winng 60%/40%
EyePod - September 8, 2010
Jeez, i feel like Wes Mantooth in Anchorman.
10-4 - September 8, 2010
Me and Dorothy had a nice seafood dinner last night.
Scott Coleman - September 8, 2010 via mobile
You know those sample audiences aren’t big enough. Not to mention they don’t take into account houses with more than two television sets…..and….other things……
10-4 - September 8, 2010
WTF is all I have to say.
TCfromDubVee - September 8, 2010
see more Epic Fails
10-4 - September 8, 2010
I'm hoping being overtaken by the Phils will motivate this team.
Nothing else seems to be working of late, so I’m hoping the stark reality of this gets us some more patient at bats and hitting with RISP.
Maybe the pressure of hanging onto the lead got to everyone and now they can relax and chase instead – make the Phils scoreboard watch for a while.
NCChopper - September 8, 2010
Erm, you scoreboard watch...
When you’re behind, not ahead. The leader doesn’t need to worry about the opposition’s opposition — they just need to win games. As long as they, win, it doesn’t matter what happens elsewhere.
JamesFromPhilly - September 8, 2010
Speak for yourself
Ask any Padres, Yankees/Rays, or Twins fan who aren’t ardently concerned with what the close-by second place team is doing, even more so when the margin shrinks.
Now I agree with your assertions that those up front, shouldn’t concern themselves with what’s happening behind, because I believe that you do your job best when looking at is straight ahead, instead of constantly checking behind, but preach it to the choir, most everyone’s going to still be doing it, regardless.
royhobbs - September 8, 2010
I’ve been thinking this team has needed a kick in the tail for a little while now, so maybe this is it.
10-4 - September 8, 2010
Agree
I was tired of hearing the “we’re still in first place” arguments from some commenters. Maybe the players felt the same way. Well, we’re not in first place anymore.
Jman781 - September 8, 2010
So, Who thinks Derek Lowe wins tonight???
I think his arm flares up on him and he struggles to get through a couple innings. Then, we return to the idea of…Should we have/or will we bring up Brandon Beachy? Does KK go back to starting?
Not a good scenario.
As a Brave fan, I think tonight’s game dictates where this team is heading. If we get swept by the worst team with a guy in the mound that is injured and can’t compete…there are going to be a lot of questions to be answered and negativity surrounding this team.
The season is not over, but we just lost the NL East lead b/c of our inability to beat the Pirates!
Braves12 - September 8, 2010
that’s funny because I think the Phillies were swept by the Astros at home in a four game serious
Braves24 - September 8, 2010
series
Braves24 - September 8, 2010
the only reason our offensive stats look decent...
is because once a week we manage to blow a team out and waste all our runs. The rest of the week we keep the games close and low scoring.
gtbravesfan - September 8, 2010
Just think of this.....
As the calm before the offensive storm the Braves are going to put up for the rest of the season.
If we would have predicted that at this point of the season we would be .5 games out of the division lead and one game ahead in the wild card would anyone have been ready to jump ship? I know I would have been pretty damn excited for the final few weeks of the season….as I still am.
We are ok, we are in a slump. Now we just need to see how we respond. Who knows, slipping out of 1st might just be the kick in the ass we needed to wake up and start playing inspired baseball again.
dragonhawk26 - September 8, 2010
I still think we got this. Hopefully, this loss will kick the offense in the ass and get them to start hitting a hundred gazillionty times better in road games.
The Braves started their 16-3 run last year on September 8th. What day is today?
TonyAlmeyda - September 8, 2010
Hank Aaron was at the US Open last night
….he said it was because Kim Clijsters was one of his favorite players….I think it was to remember what was like to see someone actually hit a ball
/sorry…but these guys are giving me the blues
El Soro - September 8, 2010
obviously it’s been looking bad the past few days, but the Braves are a better team than the Phillies, period. Things will sort themselves out the last month.
abraves - September 8, 2010
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