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Talking Chop

Chipper Jones to rehab knee, attempt 2011 Comeback

During his press conference yesterday with Braves GM Frank Wren, Chipper Jones has decided to undergo the rehabilitation process, and will attempt to prepare himself for 2011's Spring Training. 

"I'm going to try my best to rehab it, get it ready for Spring Training, and we'll see how it feels after that," Jones said during a Friday afternoon press conference. "I think it would be wrong of me to make a decision to quit right now.

Seriously, this comes as little shock to me, as we're all aware of the stubborn fighter that is our Hall of Fame-bound third baseman, and it was hard to see Chipper leaving the game on absolutely anything other than his own terms.  Overall, this is a fairly low-risk and yet another classic Chipper Jones move of putting the team first, since it's not going to hurt the organization to look forward to the potential average and OBP coming back next year, alleviating a little bit of pressure to find an immediate long-term replacement, since he could very well have easily phoned it in right now, and start his retirement life of hunting, fishing, and being a father.

Hopefully with below-par Chipper seasons now in the past, the 2011 Chipper Jones will return to the Braves, fresher, healthier, and ready to embark on a season full of potential offensive milestones and book-ending a HOF-worthy story in his own terms.

0 recs  |  86 comments

Comments

Can't wait.

Back-to-back World Series in 2010 and 2011 is going to be the bomb.

i'm ok with the decision...

but i dont see how this has anything to do with putting the team first. with chipper’s 13 million dollar “if” hanging over the braves heads, there’s absolutely no way they can be major buyers this offseason for an outfield bat.

i’m not saying that it’s a bad decision and there’s probably no other way to go about it for chipper, but it doesnt seem like a “team first”. the braves have approximately 67.5 million already committed to 9 players (assuming alex g. and omar’s options are picked up) and with arb raises due to 5-7 players, there’s absolutely no money for any moves next year.

I think it is all about putting the team 1st.
Who knows what he is really feeling and how he views the likelihood that he will really be able to perform at the required level next spring. But right now, he’s out and the team remains in a pennant race.

for hypothetical...

let’s just say that chipper tries to rehab during spring, decides he’s done, negotiates a settlement, and retires. at that point in time, it’s way too late to get any free agent that will make an impact on the team.

this would never happen so bare with me…but the only “team first” decision that i can see is that he re-negotiated his contract for this year only and has a pending contract on his health status.

i love chipper to death and he’s bent over backwards for this franchise, but i dont see this being a team first decision.

agree

just dont know how to remedy it

no coolaid drinking for me

i was trying to decide whether this article is more about trying to get me to drink the coolaid or just cheerleading. Team first- give it up. There are 13M other reasons for the decision. Hoping that the subpar year is behind him- the man has had a great career but players in their late 30’s just dont produce like they did at the peak of their career, even without having to come back from major knee surgery.
Its a low percentage win situation for the braves organization. $13M could add to the “team” in the offseason.

My rationale is this

Imagine if Chipper didn’t get hurt, and was fully expecting to play next year. The payroll is more or less already prepared for it. Now imagine if he didn’t get hurt, and stopped waffling and decided that he was going to play next year – same situation. The payroll is already expecting this outcome, and it’s not necessarily hamstringing the organization. The money is already prepared for Chipper to be there, and until he declares official retirement will that no longer be the case.

He’s going to give an earnest effort to come back, I don’t think any of us have to worry about. Either he comes back adequately, and we’re going to get a solid #3 hitter with the same outstanding OBP and ability to make pitchers work, or we get a slightly used repeat of 2010 Chipper whom despite not being the nightmare with the bat, still has a .400+ OBP, and is still adequate for everyday play, health provided. Now I understand your concerns if everything falls apart in ST, and he decides to call it quits then, as it does certainly put a burden on the team, because the timing does indeed hinder the ability to get someone else, but I have to ask; if Chipper is going to dedicate to attempt coming back in 2011, do you honestly think he’d half-ass it, and not be able to become an everyday player again? I don’t.

I respectfully disagree...

While I hope his rehab goes well for him to resume his hunting career with minimal pain, I am hoping against hope that his leg does not respond well enough in order for him to entertain a comeback.

When you play 120-130 games a year at $13MM a year, that translates to somewhere near a $17MM annual salary over 162 games.

Regardless of his play lately, the production has not been commisserate with that sort of salary. This is not someone we can count on for steady production for 150 games or more. Nor should Wren/Grim Reaper McGuirk have ever posited that we could count on him when we made the contract offer.

Considering the dead money we have in Gwinnett next year between Nate and KK, and Lowe’s contract still in effect for two more years, can we afford to take a wait and see approach? Particularly with pitching that is geared to win playoff series right now.

All I see is the Phils increasing payroll, the Marlins moving into a new ballpark soon (increased revenues), the Nats slowly building up payroll, and the Mets misspending twice as much as we are willing to pay. Meanwhile, i wouldn’t be surprised to see our payroll even sink to $80MM next year.

Endgame: I need two bats with that $13MM. Guys who can play everyday, guys who don’t duck the best pitchers because they took “aggressive swings in BP, and tweaked something.”

As it was mentioned, with arb increases and limited salary rolling off the payroll, we have nothing left to improve the club.

I now open this up for those who are ruled by emotions and nostalgia for years past to blast me and call me ungrateful; and Hey, i’ll take it if the Baseball Gods grant my wish and stall him enough to make him think more about those videos of deer in bikinis shooting AKs or whatever it is he produces.

Because if we thought he was inconsistent prior to this, with limited availability…how much less reliable will he be coming off ACL surgery at 38….that is unless we want to put him on the PEDs too. Baseball players coming off ACL surgery at 38 usually don’t come back to all-star levels. Can anyone here name someone who did?

Chipper Jones produces vidoes of deer in bikinis shooting ak’s?

Not a fan of his full-time job.

Love his part-time work though….hitting baseballs.

I disagree with your analysis and disapprove of your attitude.

What is wrong with my analysis?

Did we spend any money at the deadline? No…

Why? Because we have $43MM in bad contracts already. Chip is one of them.

The math: $43MM in bad contracts, $84MM total payroll….that’s over half.

We need guys who can play everyday to be our top earners. And he hasn’t done that in years. Even when he won the batting title, he didn’t play a full slate.

yeah chipper stinks what has he ever done for the braves

You’re probably the guy who lets his dog walk around on one good leg for months before having it mercifully put to sleep aren’t you?

Life is ahead of you…not behind. Tribute pay is not a luxury this franchise can afford.

where’s the “whatever you moron” bunny?

F Chipper

Worst, most selfish player in the history of MLB… If there’s one thing the guy’s earned it’s the right to retire on his own terms

no you're thinking of A-rod

Yeah well a-rod never did steroids, plus there was that time he selfishly took a paycut and moved to left field so his team could sign vinny castilla… Oh wait…

Once again, you fall into the Sar Chasm. Good luck getting out.

A few things...

Despite’s Chippers salary, he is still well above avg and far better than MOST options in the league or free agency at 3B. 120-135 games of Chipper is good, while helping other younger players that would sub for him.

Phillies are already at the limit of their ridiculously high payroll (otherwise they’d still have Lee).

Marlins will never ever substantially raise payroll for more than 1 season before fire saling. Its the Marlin way of business.

The Nats have a billionaire owner who always goes after the big names and never signs them. They will be a very much improved team next year but they are still a few years away from competing realistically.

The Mets are the Mets. Good player base with awful mismanagement. They are always good for a laugh.

I don’t think you have any proof of Chipper “ducking” the best pitchers. On his best days he still owns them. Besides he’s 38 and pulling something on an aggressive swing is getting easier than when he was even 3 years younger.

On the surgery issue: Basically can’t name anyone who was an all-star and came back at that level because frankly, I don’t believe their are many in that position that tried it.

Now I think if the Braves went out and got Beltre this offseason, or another high quality 3B, Chipper would probably retire because the team/organization is in decent position.

So much fail that it hurts the eyes.

Let me save you some time and explain that Chipper actually IS worth the money.

I pretty much agree with you here, but I wouldn’t rule out Chipper possibly re-negotiating his deal to make it more team friendly. Dude has done it before…

And I see that you made that point down below.

Carry on…

sorry this isn't me

but I think you mean “commensurate”

I can see this was a well-thought out opinion, one backed with considerable research and baseball-relevant data to support said claim.
 
Oh wait. You mean it contained absolutely none of that?
  
Well never mind then.

All valid points

And I can understand a lot of the resistance I’m getting to my opinion of thinking that it was a team-first decision, but what it all boils down to is the fact that I’m having difficulty in finding who could possibly be an adequate replacement for an every day third baseman?

The bat’s not as scary any more, and the defense is becoming more and more error prone. But the OBP is still well above average, and as sacrilegious it is to some, Chipper would make one hell of a bat, not in the third spot, be it second, or fifth or sixth. So many contracts are perceived as “bad contracts,” but from a player that still has such stellar OBP talents, I can’t classify Chipper up there with Kawakami and McLouth, who are yes, sucking money in the minors. Personally, I just feel that Chipper Jones even degrading is still a better third base option than the eventual 2011 class of third-base free agents. The only one that remotely intrigues me is Jorge Cantu and a small modicum of interest in Brandon Inge.

By attempting to return next year, it does take a little pressure off the front office in searching for the eventual replacement, and who’s to say that it’s not already high on the priority list in the first place, thus making this idea moot? It’s also an emotional lift to the players, and potentially example setting to the younger players, which are intangible factors that often like to be seen as overrated and irrelevant, but simply not to me.

I totally agree

you are absolutely correct in your analysis and comments. $13M in freed up salary adds more to the team than Chipper can at his age. MAJOR Knee surgery at his age low percentage thinking that everything will be ok.

good call LWJ

going out under his own terms is the way anyone with his stats would want to go out. he has earned the right to do this his way. looking forward to the 2011 season. also looking forward to see how the guys finish this season. if they believe in each other as much as i do, then they will play far into the playoffs. go get’em boys.

This is one of the drawbacks to Unions...

Chip is the type of dude who could recognize that he isn’t worth $13MM and ask for a pay reduction. But the Union would never allow it.

He’s always been team first, deferring monies, being politically correct about unpopular front office decisions.

But even he, especially he, has to know that he is the least reliable of pretty much any position player making that much coin. Certainly he’s older and more brittle.

I can’t abide by another year of missed time and full salary paid. Particularly when this has been the case with him for going on 5 years, batting crown or no.

It’s easier for me to say goodbye to one my favorite players ever and not look back. After all, this is what our organization has been teaching us to do now for the past 5-7 years with salary scalebacks and not showing the same commitment to winning.

When your front office’s main goal is to win, but only if they can win cheap, these are the sacrifices you have to be prepared to make.

This is what is wrong with owners
When your front office’s main goal is to win, but only if they can win cheap, these are the sacrifices you have to be prepared to make.

But then again, I’m also an admirer of George Stienbrenner’s infinite budgets, and Ted Turner’s willingness to dump money into the team, because those are also sacrifices that they were prepared, and did make, in order to put together some winning teams. More power to low-budget teams that strike gold with all their 25-man roster construction success stories, but sometimes, spending some money can sometimes help your odds.

The MLBPA would let Chipper do whatever he wants to do – because he is going to do it anyway.

He ain’t gonna go down without a fight….he said his mom won’t let him quit lol.

WOOO

Chipper’s dad isn’t finished being a MLB batting coach.

I wonder two things...

will he renegotiate his deal to try and free up some money next year to help add a piece that puts the team over the top for a title?

And when will he target his return? If it’s for the start of spring training, that may not let him fully recover. If he waits and targets a return for sometime from May to the All Star break, that might let him fully recover and also let him be fresher for the second half and a playoff run.

On one other question...

will he be able to spend more time helping some of the other players with their swings, like maybe Ankiel, Heyward, Conrad, etc.

he’s said he’ll stick around and help out.

I'm sure he will...

but will that show up in production? And then of course the first two above.

I honestly don’t know the answers

You don't?

Unacceptable!

I am so ashamed :(

It can't hurt can it?

There’s really no reason why it would hurt to still have them there to mentor the younger guys and bench players during a pennant run. It would behoove them to listen to his experiences.

This is awesome news!

Now all I have to hope is that he really can make it back because I have yet to see him play live in the flesh!

My best friend has a cadaver ligament after a torn ACL.

Not sure if it’s commonplace or not, but he has knee pain ever since. He still runs but mainly sticks to low impact cardio now. He’s also in very good shape which is why the lingering pain is surprising. I’m going to be optimistic about this recovery and I wish Chipper a speedy recovery.

It’s the ghost trying to escape.

I must tell him this.

Not going to lie.

That freaks me out a little.

I had the same operation, and have not had one problem with my knee since then. In fact, that knee is actually stronger than before tearing my ACL. Cadaver grafts are the best the medical field has to offer. Recovery is 110%.

I am betting that your friend either did not do his Physical Therapy, or did it incorrectly.

I understand the concerns people have with this

If Chipper comes back next year, plays fewer games and plays poorly then it puts the Braves in a very tough position financially and it could also turn into a Griffey situation, where the FO and manager have to decide what to do with the aging franchise icon.

I think Chipper will know when he’s done and will walk away gracefully, like Griffey did not do. I understand concern that if he retires before next season, it wouldn’t leave the FO ample time to find a replacement. Let’s remember though, that Chipper has made numerous sacrifices for this team, has restructured his contract and switched positions at one point to help us out. I don’t think he would just leave the front office “hanging” by walking away at the end of March unless something drastic happened at the end of spring training.

Also something I haven’t seen anyone mention: our CURRENT replacements. Obviously Brooks Conrad at 3rd doesn’t strike fear into the opposition the way Beltre at 3rd does, but our bench has come through for us all year long. If Prado does indeed move back to 3rd and Infante is able to play second, or if Conrad and Infante are able to platoon at 3rd and we still play extremely well, who’s to say our target in the offseason will be to replace Chipper anyway? I’m not saying Conrad or Infante are long replacements obviously, but I feel this conversation is a bit premature since we really don’t know what’s going to happen six months down the road.

Putting team first?

Some of you guys need to get off your ‘homer box’. Why would Chipper coming back next year be for the ‘good of the team’?

He was ready to hang it up back in May-June and he obviously isnt the player he was. The guy is getting paid way to much money for what he’s worth. If he was going to do something for the good of the team he should renegotiate for a salary oy 5 mil a year so it will enable the team to sign a impact free- agent next year.

How do you know that he's not going to renegotiate his salary and take less money, he has before?
Maybe..

Sign Chipper to a contract like the Packers tried with Favre… 13 mil for 13 years for services for the Atlanta Braves. Not sure what the union would think of that.

If Jones was a team guy he should renegiotiate his contract. The guys set for life with $. His salary is more of a pride thing.

If he truely wants to go out a winner, renegotiate for the good of the team!

Iknowrite?

I can’t BELIEVE that asshole isn’t playing for free!

See my rebuttal above

Yes, it is easy to consider him coming back, mostly to end his career the way he wants to end it, as well as tackle some statistical milestones along the way, for the good of his own interests, but I just don’t see it as not beneficial to the team as well. But in a business that seldom necessitates to owe anything back to individuals, if there’s any one player that deserves to go out on his own terms, it’s Chipper Jones.

And it’s not like the Braves are going to be doing him this gigantic solid favor of allowing him to come back next year, because even a hobbled and slowed-bat Chipper is still likely going to post up the typical .400+ OBP, and see a lot of pitches, and as long as it’s not necessarily from the third spot in the order, he can still be a big contributor to the club.

While I wish Chipper would retire, as the insurance on the contract (which I assume there is) would allow for more value then the best Chipper did this year, I do hope he comes back, comes back fully, and gets to come back in May, then retire on his own terms.

BTW I don’t think the union allows players to restructure contracts to take less money, so that isn’t an option.

Lineup

Infante
Heyward
Gonzalez
Glaus
McCann
Diaz
Conrad
Cabrera
Lowe

Injury bug has hit us hard these last few weeks

It gives the Phillies fans nothing to complain about now

Yeah…Meds and Chipper out for the season. I don’t think they have anyone out for the season.

we also were without JHey and are without Prado for an extended period of time
and didnt have Diaz for the first few months and we have seen how valuable he has been

Or Jurrjens…

but ESPN said that Phillies arent in 1st place because they have a lot of injuries LOL

All i can say is
ESPN sucks
Phillies sucks

I really hate ESPN.

I really hate the Phillies
I really hate Spam.

I hate algebra classes, steamed broccoli, and douchebags with hot girlfriends who are too thick to realize how much better they could do.

Everything except the Broccoli, I agree with.

I'll go with my honest opinion here:

I love Chipper. Always have, always will. He’s the reason I played 3rd base my whole life. The first jersey i bought was a Chipper Jones jersey. And he’s a big reason of why I’m such a big Braves fan.

I’d love to see him come back in 2011, and I still have confidence in him after seeing him play the last few months. He’s really turning it around. But here’s my problem with it:

We all know the Braves aren’t exactly sitting on stacks of cash here. If Chipper tells everyone that he’s going to comeback from his injury, and then can’t, what happens to the Braves? Are we going to have a platoon at 3rd for the entire year because we had to wait around for Chipper? It sounds like we won’t really know how he’s feeling and how well he’s recovered until at least February. I really doubt there will be many FA or trade options by then. Heck, most teams like to be finished with their acquisitions by February…and we may be looking for our starting 3rd baseman. Our starting 3rd baseman to hit in the middle of our lineup, and provide power.

I’m not sure I’m OK with that. I wish Chipper the best, but I’m really not too optimistic about this whole situation.

2 things...

First of all, I’m thrilled to hear that Chipper hasn’t made a decision yet and will wait to see what his body tells him at/during and after rehab. I think having a full 6 months to completely rest ALL of his body may pay huge dividends for him physically and he just may come back to us in 2008 form.

Second, all this talk about whether Chipper deserves to tie up the Braves monetarily, while he decides….of course he does. We’re willing to pay Lowe 15 mil a year and then have to think about whether or not we allow Chipper the ability to take his time to make a decision? If he hasn’t deserved this latitude then no one has.
.
And Oh Yeah – I already knew this on the 12th (Thurs) ;-)
http://tinyurl.com/3yqlcha (scroll to the bottom)
.

No one deserves to earn money for low production. Not even Chipper.

Lowes contract does not justify anything.

If Chipper continues the decline of then past 2 years, imagine how bad he could potentially be coming back from surgery? Would that be worth his huge salary? No.

Chipper, just come back as batting coach and remain in the dugout for eternity.

Welcome to the world of MLB

This isn’t the NFL. Contracts are guaranteed.

I’m willing to bet you were pissing your pants with excitement when Chipper signed his other deals and stayed loyal to the team that drafted him. You probably did the same when he agreed to his extension prior to last season, coming off a year that he hit .364.

But now, oh no, he doesn’t deserve it. Guess what?? Tough shit.

It’s amazing what people will bitch and moan about after the fact.

-C

Remember this statement from Chipper:

    “I’m not going to hamstring the ballclub with the money I’m making, and I’m not going to be happy being a mediocre player.”

The Favre Idea

The only problem with that is that the MLB Players Union doesn’t allow contracts to be renegotiated for less money or less years. The only way out of the contract is for Chipper to Retire but he won’t retire unless he gets a buyout of his contract which will be about 1/2 of the 28 million he is owed but it will be deferred over say 10 years+ interest.

And for those who say he is better than the 2011 FA class I don’t think that is the case here are 5 3b who are as good if not better offensively and defensively than chipper that will be available.

1. Adrian Beltre
2. Ty Wiggington
3. Jorge Cantu
4. Brandon Inge
5. Miguel Tejada

That list is laughable in comparison to a healthy Chipper.

-C

really

I really wish people would stop believing that Chipper isnt the same player as the MVP of 1999. He is a 15-20 hr, 75-85 RBI, .275 BA, .385 OBP guy now. You want to see how important it is to have your Corner IF’s be Hr and RBI’s Men look at every team in 1st place besides The Braves and Tell Me who doesn’t have those two things.

AL East
Yankees-Tex, A-Rod
Rays- Longoria, Pena
Redsox- Youkilis, Beltre
White Sox- Konerko, Vizquel
Twins- Morneau, Cuddeyer
Rangers- Young, Cantu/Chris Davis
Reds- Rolen. Votto
Padres- Gonzalez, Headley
Giants- Sandoval, Huff
Cardinals- Pujols, Freese/Lopez
Braves- Glaus, Chipper

The Braves Corner IF’s are either 10th or 11th in terms of Run production from 2 of the top 4 Run Producing positions on a team.

The real tragedy

in this injury is that we are now subjected to idiocy such as this.
 
Omar Vizquel? Really?

RBI…lol

Hey, Reviving Baseball in the Inner cities is nothing to snicker at, friend.

That list is laughable compared to a not-healthy Chipper.

Chipper >>>>>>> any other option.

Like many folks on here, I do not see how Chipper’s actions (thus far) can be classified as putting the team first. Of course, that does not mean his actions are selfish. Had Chipper not intimated he was seriously considering retirement at the end of the season, I suspect very few of us would be upset with him rehabbing to play out his contract. I also suspect that had this happened in May, Chipper’s decision would have been different.

Given what we know, we have to believe that Chipper believes he can still play the game at a high level and help the Braves win ball games. I am excited by the prospect of that Chipper returning for another season.

At the same time, I share the concern that Chipper may hang it up at an inopportune time and leave the club in an untenable position. The list above, though, is good reason to hold out hope for a health Chipper.

The real question to ask is do you want one of those players listed above or would you rather fall back on Infante as an everyday player if Chipper cannot come back?

When has Chipper put the Team first?

People mention how Jones renegotiated his contract a few years ago for the good of the team…. but yet someone mentioned how the Union prohibits a player reducing there salary?

So did Jones take a pay-cut then or not? I dont think so… so how was that new contract for the good of the team?

I thinking its a bunch of BS saying Chipper renegogiated for ‘the good of the team’. Don’t know of any cases where a player has renegotiated for less money. Some of you guys should reconsider your thinking on how much has Chipper Jones has done for the team finacially…. he’s never given up anything has he? In fact am sure he made out better finacially by renegotiating a few years back.

Am finding myself siding with the owners on player salarys. Maybe go the NFL route with salarys. You dont produce, you could get cut.

Chipper renegotiated his salary to where he would be paid less in the years Vinny Castillo was here, taking Chipper’s spot at 3B, so the team would be better.

That is putting the team first more than anything else in pro sports that I have ever seen.

Butts in the seats

I think Chipper has value to the team in that way too. Yet, I never hear it discussed when people are wanting to give him a pat on the back, tell him thanks for the memories and now get the hell out because you may be hamstringing the team’s options.

I must be the only person that thinks he has deserved the time to try and come back if it’s what he wants to do.

No, no you are not.

I don’t see Chipper keeping a roster spot while OBP’ing under .300 or something heinous like that. (I said P’ing. heh heh heh heh.)
 
He’ll give it a go and if he can still perform, awesome. If not, I really believe he’ll hang it up.

I do too. His interview after the game today almost brought me to tears. Very candid and you can tell he wants to try and end his career on a more positive note.

I’ll be here to support him, no matter what his decision is or final outcome.

he also volunteered to renogotiate his contract for less money to free up money for an extension for huddy right after he came over from oakland

for what its worth...

Jones was quoted as saying:

I would miss that if I were to make the decision now to turn away, I think I would regret it. That’s why I didn’t make it. I think for my own peace of mind I need to act like I’m going to spring training to get this thing better….

This is not a team-driven decision. And again, I am not saying that is a bad thing. It just is what it is.

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