Talking Chop

To be fair, KK committed as many errors as his defense did tonight. Just a plain bad outing for him

Zeus12888 - June 16, 2010 reply

Yep

Suckage, all around.

I think they might have gotten back into it eventually, even with all of the missed opportunities early, if Resop had done much of anything. AAAA.

It didn’t make the difference and I think if affected both sides but jeez louise did Dreckman suck a donkey’s balls tonight. When Troy Glaus is furious at you, you’re wrong. Period.

hahahaha

i like that " when Glaus if furious you’re wrong" hahahaha

the defense behind kawakami didnt struggle

he was the one struggle on defense, at least one of those errors was on an errant pickoff throw and he bobbled a sac bunt that shouldve been at least an out at first. I know Kawakmai isnt a bad ptcher given his stats, but the guy is just not a winner, and he just cant pitch to the situation, whenever we dont need him to be that sharp he pitches brilliantly, but when we need him to pitch well or in tight situations he almost always pitches terribly. I really dont see KK or care to see him in a Braves uniform next year. Lets just hope he can salvage this season by helping in the bullpen where he will undoubtedly be after tonight and Medlen’s latest game

Also, the Rays leadoff man is John Jaso, not John Jason

Zeus12888 - June 16, 2010 reply

Indeed, that's the third time I've naturally typed Jason today

I blame Heyward.

BenDuronio - June 16, 2010 reply

Talking Chop had one of it's busiest days of the season on Tuesday

I can only think of Opening Day and Brooks Conrad’s GS day having more visitors and/or page views. Kinda odd.

Scott Coleman - June 16, 2010 reply

Maybe Bobby will start calling Heyward “Jaso”

He already does, doesn’t he?

And shit…I’m gonna miss the “come on kid!” from Bobby in the dugout next year. I’m gonna miss it a lot.

Scott Coleman - June 16, 2010 reply

He usually just adds “-ey” to your name.

Jasoney? Heywardey?

I don’t think so…

Scott Coleman - June 16, 2010 via mobile reply

Nor: Pradoey, Infanteey, Chipperey, Hinskeey, Escobarey, Cabrerraey/Melkyey… LOL

lol usually its:

“C’MON -….

Chip!
Mac!
Kid!
Kid!
Troy!
Esco!
Kid!

"Kid"

Is the other go-to thing. I swear, I think he called Glaus that last night.

Yup

He even called Chipper that on Wednesday night. Then again, at Bobby’s age there aren’t too many people on the field he can’t logically call, “Kid!” lol

Old Braves' Fan - June 17, 2010 reply

It's either...

Jaso or Jace….

I think

this loss feels so terrible because of:
A) The long delay
B) The way weve been playing
C) No Bob Wickman jokes.

Tim Goad - June 16, 2010 reply

Bob Wickman jokes, FTW

GeneParmesan - June 16, 2010 reply

I blame no Smoltz in the booth.

+1

I can’t stand Ernie Johnson, Jr.

+1

Right there with ya.

This was just a sloppy game all the way around. the LOB and hits with RISP is starting to get a little worrisome but i dont really know how to feel about it. We know we can hit cuz were gettin on base, a lot of times were just not getting that big hit to bring them around.

I think when JJ gets back KK should go to the bullpen for a stint just to regain some confindence. 0-9 is tough

i’m ready to get back to our normal type schedule (one that doesn’t involve extended west coast trips and tough interleague opponents)

ATLBRVS_19 - June 16, 2010 reply

sweet jesus

THIS…FUCK INTERLEAGUE PLAY

SouthernPanther - June 16, 2010 reply

Happy to hear someone that agrees with me. I can’t stand inerleague play. It’s novelty doesn’t justify how unbalanced it is, plus I love the factor of the two World Seires contenders never having faced each other during the season. Hell, I don’t even like how teams now play play their divisional rivals so many more times that other teams in the same league, though that’s not as bad as interleague play. Put it right up there with the ASG deciding homefield advantage in the WS.

13 hits and 4 runs = not cutting it

SouthernPanther - June 16, 2010 reply

And the Mets are on fire

Five in a row and half a game out!

taney71 - June 16, 2010 reply

That's because

They are playing LL teams. Their schedule get more realistic after they are done with the Indians.

WienerDog - June 16, 2010 reply

Look at their recent opponents. Orioles and Indians? Pathetic. Their true colors will show when their interleague schedule gets a bit tougher next series.

bashby20sh - June 16, 2010 reply

baltimore and cleveland

the 2 worst AL teams. While we get 2 of the 3 best AL teams

Good points. I still hate that the Mets are this close to taking the division lead.

taney71 - June 16, 2010 reply

The Mets have been ahead of us in the division earlier in the year, and the bottom too. Give it time. As Smoltz so hilariously put it, “The Chutes and Ladders Division.”

The Mets schedule gets considerably tougher after their little Orioles/Indians run.

Check it out. First off: the Yankees

Mets did take 2 of 3 from the Yankees already

Plus, haven’t the Braves already faced the Astros, Dbacks (6 times) and the Pirates (6 times)? One could easily argue the Braves have had a much easier schedule. Even when you’re playing bad teams, you have to take care of business. Give the Mets some credit, they are padding their record just as the Braves did against the dregs of the NL.

David G - June 16, 2010 reply

Mets have played a lot of home games

Braves24 - June 16, 2010 reply

Not sure that cancels out

that the Braves have played almost 1/3 of their schedule vs. the Pirates (7), Dbacks (6) and Astros.

David G - June 16, 2010 reply

Massive failures with RISP from just about everyone on the team, except Melky, oddly enough. Give some credit to Price, he made some nasty pitches when he had to, but he shouldn’t get all the credit. Just a ugly team loss. KK was just dreadful in that first inning, and the two errors, ugh. Pretty sure this now 0-9 record is getting to him. I was surprised Glaus wasn’t ejected. He seemed to suffer from the portable strike zone more than most. I also hope this tempers everyones expectations of Chris Resop being the svaior of the bullpen. He’ll probably have a hard time getting out of Bobby’s doghouse with last night’s performance.

Silver linings? Chipper had some good swings, and we got Hanson and Huddy going the next two games. I like our chances. Hopefully this ugly ass game tonight kicks their butts in gear.

WTF ?

Why Are we Running this no good, sorry, half ass ……….I am sorry………but KK’s gotta go !!! He’s a double A pitcher at best !!!

ggotch - June 16, 2010 reply

Rec'd

bpk228480 - June 16, 2010 reply

What a very thoughtful and wonderfully construed comment.

the dramatic pauses are what sold me.

I liked the random capitalizations….

And where is he running?

Right on……..maybe…….ok, you win.

Sparhawk - June 16, 2010 reply

question for anyone who went

How was Big Boi’s 7th inning stretch performance?

Terrible would be generous

kauf67 - June 16, 2010 reply

yep, just saw it on Big League Stew. You nailed it.

Where to start

Well i am glad we found a new shitty reliever who can come into a cloe game and make it not as close anymore. We got rid of that guy but i guess we called him right back up.
Jesse Chavez > Chris Resop, yea pretty sad

WTF we had runners on 1+2 and sometimes more with less than 2 outs about 6-7 innings and only scored 2 of those runs, pathetic

I’m glad bobby didn’t pinch hit for KK with 0 outs and bases loaded, oh wait no i am pissed he didn’t pinch hit

This was by far the worst game of the season for me because we pitched like shit and couldn’t hit with RISP

Can you guys cut the I feel bad for KK crap? You feel bad for him because he pitched 4IP and 5 runs? Alright its no one elses fault he was leaving the ball up to get smashed other than his. I feel like KK is better than this but i am certainly not even remotly sad cause he can’t pitch better. If he wants his 1st win then he should pitch better and longer into games

And finally we gotta win these next 2 games against TB or the Muts will have 1st place, and i want nothing less than that to happen

that's what happens when you put KK on the mound

HE NEEDS TO GO!

southman - June 16, 2010 reply

no thats what happens when you got 1-10000 with RISP

TCfromDubVee - June 16, 2010 reply

The Braves are racist and hate KK...

they refuse to score runs for him.

no KK hates the Braves and won't pitch good for 'em

southman - June 17, 2010 reply

Ok, so, every 5th day we're going to lose the game.

Fact: Upon JJ’s return, he needs to replace KK (if we’re really serious about making a run at this thing)

Let’s win the next 4 in a row!!!!!!!!!!!

that means we would have lost to KC

naw man naw

Hopefully KK > KC

doubt it

southman - June 17, 2010 reply

This morning I have a KK/ Resop/RISP Fail/Rain Delay hangover after that game.

And I didn’t drink a drop of alcohol.
Anyone got a cure?
.
And It was beyond great to see Chipper with a double and a home run last night.

NCChopper - June 16, 2010 reply

Hopefully your cure is a nice W tonight.

either that or alcohol and her husband/boyfriend/significant other.

I Logged In....

Just to read the excuses people were coming up with for why Kawakrappy loss again last night.

The defense was poor? Really?

It never fails – when is a loss actually going to be pinned on Kawakami??? and not the offense or the defense or Bobby Cox or bad luck or the fans or the weather….or the moon or sun

Fact it.

He got fucking rocked.

Thank you!!!!!!!!

people try to make excuses for why they feel bad for him, i dont maybe he shouldnt give up 5 runs in 4 innings

No one should ever feel bad

for a guy that makes between $6-$7 million dollars a year and has recorded a victory in 2010. Hell I could manage that.

*hasn't

So I must ask...

Why did he lose the game he pitched in Arizona? Please explain.

thank you

Duh. He’s supposed to allow negative runs in his starts.

Your pissing and moaning is beyond old. We’ve had enough. If you have nothing good to say (and you rarely do), perhaps you should find another site to piss and moan about. Maybe the Braves MLB.com fan message board.

Laughing my AZZ off !!!

Kawakrummy !!! lol !!! Now that’s a good one !!!

ggotch - June 16, 2010 reply

What’s an azz?

isn’t it an axe/hoe-like tool? Oh, wait…that’s and adze! ;-)

/sarcasm

*an adze.

PS

I realize Atlanta had four errors (two of them KK’s)…but both teams had to play in last night’s conditions…not just one side.

In the franchise’s more than 100-year history in Boston, Milwaukee and Atlanta, no starter had ever begun a season 0-9. Now one has – But let’s remember NONE of it is his fault.

I hope this will now open some eyes…Ohhh but wait…i’m going to check his BABIP and WHIP and BS first before i come to any major decision.

I just glad most people i know still don’t know who Kawakami is or the fact he’s 0-9…(oooohhh i forgot…W-L’s records don’t matter – give me a break)

Let the dude rot in the bullpen for all i care.

So you’re just gonna ignore the 6 inning scoreless outing in Arizona i presume.

No one is saying he pitched great last night, he was awful in the first inning. But that game was perfectly winnable if the offense had made any impact with runners in scoring position.

No one said "NONE of it is his fault"...

he accepts blame when he does bad. But the 0-9 record is misleading, and he’s performed more than well enough to be say 3-6, 4-5, 5-4.

Well there certainly seems to be an excuse

Every single time he’s pitched this year. I’m just tired of it.

It may seem that way...

but not true. There’s been 4-6 times where he pitched poorly and took a legit loss, even KK has admitted that much. People just get tired of the “He’s 0-9, he must be horrible” cry from so many. There’s a lot more to it than just that, and while as I say elsewhere, he hasn’t pitched like Hudson or Hanson to be sure, the guy has pitched well enough to earn a handful of wins our offense couldn’t give him, and isn’t what Jeff Schultz tries to make him out to be. He’s a slightly overpaid (although not really when you look at some with similar or higher salaries) back end starter. No more, no less. He’s not a Cy Young type, but every team in the league would take him in their rotation. I mean compare him to say Kei Igawa, who the Yankees signed for similar money and the guy can’t even produce in AAA. KK is probably our 6th best starter, and considering the first 5, that’s not a bad thing.

do you really want to pay 7 mil

to a 3-6 pitcher?

Does that matter?

he signed a guaranteed deal, and that’s what the team owes. I doubt’t they want to pay McLouth his millions, or Lowe his 15, but that’s what the contract they signed says.

And more specifically to answer your question, depends on the “3-6 pitcher”. Zack Greinke is 2-8, would you pay him $7m? Roy Oswalt is 4-8, and he gets I think $16m. Ben Sheets is 2-6 for his 8 figure salary. Carlos Zambrano has given the Cubs 2-5 for his $18m. Felix Hernandez is 4-5, and there isn’t a team in the league that wouldn’t pay $7m for his services. Better yet, the Yankees paid over $26 m just for the rights, in addition to a 5 yr/$20m deal to Kei Igawa (so combined 5yrs, $46m or around $9m per). And he can’t even even do well in AAA.

No

But it’s too late to change that

kauf67 - June 16, 2010 reply

Your "analysis"

and dismissal of statistics other than W-L render your commentary useless and easy to ignore.

In other words, when you say stuff like that, most people realize you don’t know what you’re talking about.

well put and rec'd

tired of these ignorant comments.

this

I think its time for another “General Callout” to all the KK haters on the main page

Sometimes I wish we had an ignore feature here.

this X a bajillion

Hey !!

Just a thought ……….Maybe we could package Kawakrummy and Resop together to KC Royals……for……..a bag of old balls and some broken bats !!!

ggotch - June 16, 2010 reply

What!

we could easily get Grienke and Butler, and Eric Hosmer, and Mike Moustakas if we gave KC that deal

mmm…Moustakas

GeneParmesan - June 16, 2010 reply

Facts

Over their last six starts our starters have the following ERAs:

Hudson: 2.20
Kawakami: 3.00
Medlen: 3.66
Lowe: 3.76
Hanson: 5.45

Now please continue the irrational KK bashing…

bbxxj - June 16, 2010 reply

Sometimes, it goes beyond numbers. Kind of like how the Cubs haven’t won a Series in over 100 years. Extremely bad luck? Goats? Bartman? Cursed.

In a few weeks, hopefully it will be this simple: JJ can get us some W’s. Wins are always nice, and I have no confidence in KK getting Wins, regardless of where whomever wants to place the blame.

It can’t get any worse than 0-9. Oh wait……0-10.

So Bobby Cox is supposed to manage his team based on karma levels?? Since you’re basically saying numbers don’t matter…

No, bbxxj is the one that’s essentially saying that numbers don’t matter (because his ERA in last 6 starts is better than Meds, Lowe, and Hanson.) I’m saying, maybe they do or maybe they don’t matter. But I know that JJ needs to replace KK.

It’s that simple.

Because you prefer pitchers who allow more runs to score? I’ll take Kawakami because I understand there is a difference between corelation and causation. Because he is allowing fewer runs to score he has a greater chance for the random amount of run support to be greater than the runs he allows.

bbxxj - June 16, 2010 via mobile reply

FACTS

Kawakami’s major league record – 7-21.

But that’s not his fault. Let’s blame everyone else.

its jason heywards fault

cause he didnt have 5 HRs last night DUH

This

You can’t look at it any deeper than that. Whether the offense responds to Lowe or not, the man at least wins games. That record is terrible. That’s all that should matter. He needs to go, somewhere, anywhere, just out of the starting rotation when JJ comes back.

michaelcooksey - June 16, 2010 reply

Actually

If you have an more than an elementary understanding of baeball, you can and should look at it deeper than that.

J-Turn14 - June 16, 2010 reply

If you have more than an*

J-Turn14 - June 16, 2010 reply

Why let things like reality confuse the issue when it’s clearly being run by people who don’t seem to understand that wins and losses do not a pitcher make.

Hell, when I saw KK come out of the Braves dugout Friday night, I wanted to jump on the field and give him a hug. No one should be forced to endure what he’s had to with this team.

agreed

The record is a reflection of his team...

so no, that isn’t his fault. He hasn’t been Hanson or Hudson, but the guy has pitched well for his spot in the rotation. And with our average runs scored over that stretch instead of the crap support he gets, the record should probably be around 14-14. Not good, but not bad either.

a 14-14 record

should not warrant a 7 mil salary

and hes not 14-14, hes 7-21

which last time i checked is twice as worse

50% worse, actually

But Mr. Sanchez’s point , I believe, is that with decent run support, KK’s record would be a lot better and that the won-loss record is partially due to factors outside of his control.

DawgB - June 16, 2010 reply

STFU ALREADY!!!!!

OMFG have you ever seen a pitcher actually PITCH when there’s a lead? Or a commanding lead? Or at LEAST a FUCKING RUN on the board??

This entire, entire argument, has been based on KK’s lack of run support and how a few timely hits here and there changes his WHOLE record.

This needs to end for real.

this

Braves24 - June 16, 2010 reply

Well, its good to see all the trolls that had disappeared since we took over first place have returned. It was getting way too warm and fuzzy around here.

this good sir.

Well if i'm a troll

At least i’m a consistent troll

You either:

A. Are a troll.
or
B. Have extremely little understanding of how to use statistics to evaulate a player and even less about their predictive value.

bbxxj - June 16, 2010 via mobile reply

C. All of the above

which is what is going on here.

Actually I have a pretty good understand of statistics

and they tell me Kris Medlen has pitched well enough to take Kawakrappy place in the rotation

It's always the same people that call everyone else trolls, too

everyone copes with loss differently, I guess

I Noticed That As Well

Thanks Chief

And the KK haters are quick to call everyone else KK-apologists.

KK didn’t pitch well last night, and everyone will admit that. He got pretty well rocked in the first inning. But the error was definitely was a contributing factor, since three of those runs were unearned. And over the next four innings, he allowed only one run, despite a couple of errors of his own. So when you look at the whole outing, it’s not quite as bad as it seemed when the game was starting.

What bugs me is that there are a ton of people who barely post for four games, then when KK’s start comes up, they start screaming at the first sign of trouble. There’s seemingly a much higher comment count in KK’s starts than other games.

We get it, KK is the worst starter we have. Fans of 20 other teams would love have a pitcher as solid as KK as their 5th starter. He’d easily be the third man in some rotations. We can’t have perfect players up and down the roster.

The 0-9 record is not all-encompassing. The run support argument isn’t just hot air. Off the 144 qualified starting pitchers in all of MLB, KK is getting the 9th worst run support while he’s in the game. Of the men ahead of, FIVE come from the league’s two worst offenses, Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Nobody else in the bottom 30 of worst run support plays for an offense nearly as good as the Braves’. So he’s been unreasonably, unsustainably unlucky.

Bronn - June 16, 2010 reply

What bugs me is that there are a ton of people who barely post for four games, then when KK’s start comes up, they start screaming at the first sign of trouble. There’s seemingly a much higher comment count in KK’s starts than other games.

I’ll expand on that and say that there are a ton people who you never hear a peep out of until the Braves lose ugly in a game, or lose 2 in a row, or drop a series. Other than good ol’ British Columbia Bob, who we’ve learned this season we can always count on to come out from under his bridge when things go bad, I don’t recognize the names of any of the other “ZOMG the sky is falling, KK sux!” posters in this thread.

All we need now is a jerryclore sighting, and this thread will be so full of fail that it may just implode and destroy the universe in the process.

But his workload tells you different, if you actually understood the stats...

KK has had some decent outings of late. Last night wasn’t one, but the rain probably didn’t help (I know Hudson dealt with it just fine a few weeks ago, but KK ain’t Huddy). When JJ comes back, I’d still like Medlen to the bullpen. He can work long relief on games KK, JJ, or another struggle. He can work in pressure situations reducing the load on Moylan, Venters, EOF and Saito. And if in a month KK still hasn’t turned it around, or if someone else goes down, we can put him back in the rotation and not worry about giving him a HUGE jump in innings that his arm has never had to deal with before. Remember, the guy had around 100 innings last year, and has never gone over 120. It might be a good idea to not risk blowing out the arm of one of our best young pitchers.

Do you think a 6 man rotation would work when JJ comes back?

MBL1 - June 16, 2010 via mobile reply

you make interesssssting proposeetion

GeneParmesan - June 16, 2010 reply

no

Meds goes to bullpen for long/middle relief until someone has 3 bad starts in a row and we’re in a great position again with having 6 legit starters.

personally,...

no.

Yes.

I think it would work. You could keep Medlen and KK in the otation. Also, it would give JJ some extra rest between starts. You could skip KK or Meds if there is an off day and your starters would be fresh down the stretch. You keep all 6 stretched out in case of an emergency. BTW, the Japanese leagues use a 6 man rotation. That being said, I don’t think it will happen. Either KK or Medlen will go to the bullpen.

DawgB - June 16, 2010 reply

7 man rotation

Sundays: Crabs Medallion
Mondays: D-Lo
Tuesday: KK
Wednesday: JJ
Thursday: The Towel(Resop, for all the newbs in this thread)
Friday: Huddy
Saturday: Hanson

Check that, make D-Lo the Tuesday pitcher and KK the Monday pitcher. Off days are Mondays and Thursdays, so KK and Resop occasionally get skipped.

The starters have to understand though, with this much time between starts, they are going to have to go 7 every time out.

Just like day-of-the-week panties!

Day of the Week???

When did they come out with those? I do have a set of Month of the Year, which I change every 1st , whether they need it or not. :-)

DawgB - June 16, 2010 reply

preach it!!

As someone we all know and love once asked....

Who handed out laptops on the short bus?

Wasn't that you?

I hate it that we had the day off on Monday.

I know the guys needed a break… but we were playing well and the timing of the break sucked.

Especially when it is followed with a game against the AL’s best team and NOT the frickin Double-AA Orioles.

HOPEFULLY we will get back on our horse and WIN this series and send a strong message to the AL that the Braves are on the warpath this year!

HalleyGator - June 16, 2010 reply

I think you’re being generous by calling the Orioles Double-A.

He/she called them Double AA. So they’re AAAA.

MBL1 - June 16, 2010 via mobile reply

I demand that Chipper, Glaus and Heyward hit 3 grand slams each tonight and Tommy pitches a perfect game. If not we must send Chipper, Glaus, Heyward and Tommy down to Myrtle Beach.

MBL1 - June 16, 2010 via mobile reply

Tough game

KK didn’t pitched good and left some balls up in the middle of the plate. He settled down and finished with six strikeouts and two earned runs. We had 13 hits and only scored four runs. That’s not good, especially when you are playing a great team. We had tons of LOB including situations where we had runners in scoring position with less than two outs.

Braves24 - June 16, 2010 reply

seeing both sides of the coin

K.K. is a better pitcher than what his record shows but the truth is K.K. is also a better pitcher than what he showed last night. I think we’re seeing an evolution of a guy who is losing his confidence & rightfully so. I think all of us would be a little rattled if he were in his shoes. For that reason I’m not going to kick a guy while he’s down but I’m also not going to deny that there is a legitimate concern when K.K. takes the mound. For whatever reason the Braves don’t win when he’s on the mound.
Meds seems to have the hot arm right now. When J.J. comes back I think Meds & K.K.‘s roles should be reversed. Meds in the rotation. K.K. in the pen. I know for what K.K. is getting paid you’d want to get the most bang for your buck & have him in a starter role but what’s good for the team as well as K.K. is just as valid of a consideration.

adc62 - June 16, 2010 reply

The one question I have, is whether or not KK’s record is weighing on his mind and altering his approach. Dude has to have absolutely no confidence in our lineup when he pitches.

Just speculation, really.

And I don’t think it would auger well for Meds to spend the rest of the year in the rotation when his arm is not used to the workload yet.

Why wouldn't he

the guy has 0 room for error. If the other team scores 1 run, he is screwed.

He's the Bizarro-Ubaldo

The second the Rockies score a run, you expect Ubaldo’s picking up a win. The second KK gives one up, you figure it’s a loss.

I do think there is a genuine concern that every pitch of his must be perfect or he’s going to lose. I think if we can get him just one solid lead to start a game, we’ll see an entirely different pitcher on the mound.

I don’t foresee Medlen being able to throw every fifth day all season long. Not enough innings yet. So we’re going to need KK down the stretch.

cthabeerman - June 16, 2010 reply

I agree UMDBHIK

That there is a concern about the workload on Meds arm but while the guy is hot why not play him. Watch his pitch count & see how things progress. When (& if) he starts showing signs of fatigue then make the switch & bring KK back into the rotation. Maybe by this time KK has some time to work out his issues & comes back as the pitcher that we all believe he is capable of being.
(Fellow posters,before I get hammered, when I say KK has some issues to work out please don’t construe that to mean that all this is on him. We all know that it’s a mixed bag which includes lack of run support.)

adc62 - June 16, 2010 reply

. . .

If the stupid fits….
;-)
.

NCChopper - June 16, 2010 reply

lol

MBL1 - June 16, 2010 via mobile reply

This so This!

HEYJUDE - June 16, 2010 reply

and a new post to Rec

Nicely done.

I’ll gladly be the greenmaker for this.