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Talking Chop

Jason Heyward Returns to Braves Lineup, Batting Second

I'm baaaack!!!

Kevin C. Cox - Getty Images

I'm baaaack!!!

Even with an 8-to-2 win against the Brewers last night, Bobby Cox is not above shaking up the Braves lineup. Here is the radically different lineup for tonight's game:

  1. Martin Prado, 2B
  2. Jason Heyward, RF
  3. Chipper Jones, 3B
  4. Brian McCann, C
  5. Troy Glaus, 1B
  6. Eric Hinske, LF
  7. Omar Infante, SS
  8. Nate McLouth, CF
  9. Tim Hudson, P

Facing the right-handed pitcher, David Bush, Cox has loaded the lineup with lefties, five of them, and three in a row from Heyward to McCann. I like the lineup. It also may get Heyward another at-bat during the game, which is pretty important considering how well he's played. Let's hope he comes back from his day to day groin pull with a little chip on his shoulder, and ready to swing a big bat.

Another aspect of putting Heyward second in the lineup is that it takes away the timidity of the lineup that has crept in lately. I was dismayed when Cox tried to bunt with Prado to advance the leadoff hitter in the first inning several nights ago. We don't need to be that timid in the first inning. We should be swinging away, even if we are having trouble scoring runs. Surely that won't be the case with #22 batting second.

0 recs  |  447 comments

Comments

I like.

Agreed.

It’s become pretty apparent that Heyward is the most dangerous hitter in the lineup and if passing him means you have to face Melky I don’t see why he’d see another pitch to hit all season.
Hopefully this will make pitchers throw to him without making him shoulder the pressure of hitting 3, 4 or 5 (though at this point I’m not entirely sure that would even bother him).

I’d really like if Heyward and Chip were switched

Love this lineup

Heyward back AND in the two hole brings an obvious smile. I also like Hinske and Infante in there. Can’t wait for the game. Go braves!!

Why?

He’s the Braves’ best hitter. He should get more PA’s than Chipper.

Why doesn’t Pujols bat leadoff?

thank you…best hitter always bats third

jason heyward is not our best hitter (yet), especially not coming off of an injury

well chipper sure hasn’t been since the second half of last year

you said jason heyward was the best hitter, i said he’s not…

so then who would you propose to bat third? Or do you still want Chipper Infield Single Jones?

Who is currently a better hitter than Jason Heyward?

There’s a reason you don’t change your 3 spot very often… consistency needs to come into the equation. Heyward had a legendary (already) debut.. then he struck out / was our worst hitter for two weeks straight.. now he’s showing glimmers of what we all expect him to become. Let him prove his consistency, and i’ll be the first one on board the 3-spot wagon.

He struck out a lot for like 4 games, not two weeks. Then he did alright for a spell. Then he struck out a lot for two games. Then he was FAWESOME for about 5 games, then he pulled his groin. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves- at no point did The Kid go cold for two weeks, or anything close to it.

…then he struck out / was our worst hitter for two weeks straight.

Right, but even with those 2 horrible weeks he’s still has this line:

.294 8HR 26RBI 1.037OPS

So in a way, it kind of proves the theory that Heyward is our best hitter. He’s been bad in 1/3 of our games, but still has better numbers than 90% of the NL.

no, it just shows that when he’s hot he’s hot and when he’s cold he’s cold. I want consistency in my 3hole.. not streaks of jesus. Let him become full jesus, then bat him 3rd.

So you’re still saying you’d rather have a consistently poor Chipper whose only saving grace is his ability to draw a walk?

he’s got a lot more consistency than a MONTH of stats from heyward that already include 2 hot streaks and 1 reaaaaaally cold one. cmon, get your chin off his nuts for a second and be realistic…

I know heyward is going to be amazing, i’m just saying let him develop— put him where he can produce and we’ll be fine. You dont have to risk club house messes just so you can see him batting 3rd and watch chipper announce his retirement

So how long do you wait? I really shudder at the thought of Chipper batting third all year, and when he inevitably goes down, who do you put there? melky again?

I’m fine with trying heyward there when chipper goes down. I honestly don’t think chipper is going to have a low BA/Slg all year.. his OBP is identical to his career OBP right now, so get him healthy and swinging again and the production is there.

realistic?

I am.

The whole part of your argument was that Heyward isn’t our best hitter.

He is. Check the stats and tell me how he’s NOT our best hitter.

I get that he has a great line— but that line includes jesus streaks and cold streaks. That combined with him being a rookie = hang on a second, lets not put him where the entire clubhouse is depending on him and move chipper out of that spot quite yet.

put him where he can produce and prove himself beyond 1 month.. I’ve seen so many freaking rookies have great starts and poor finishes.. I don’t want this to be another moment where everyone is giving the guy fan-fellatio instead of easing into it.

he’s not fucking ready to have the entire team looking at him to carry them! he’s a rookie! moving chipper is a big deal in the club house… that’s a lot of stress for a 20yr old. Develop the kid, dammit

Heyward is not Pujols

This is like saying that Pujols is not Jesus.

yea, you can say it like that too…

It’s been proven that 2nd is where you want your best hitter. But haha!

Because ~22% of his PA’s would be guaranteed to come with no one on base. And I never said “Your best hitter should hit lead-off”. I said (to paraphrase myself) “The superior hitter should get more PA’s”.

Switching Heyward and Chipper.

It is tough to move Chipper out of the three-hole, but I think this is the start, everyone knows Heyward will hit there eventually. I like him higher in the order, but I see the reason for Chipper second and Heyward third—-so far this year, Chipper hasn’t hit much or hit for much power, but he has drawn a huge number of walks and I would love to have guys on base for Heyward. On the other hand, Prado hasn’t been bad at getting on base either. Personally, I think we now have our four or five best hitters hitting 1-4/5 and I am happy with that combination in any order.

Apparently, that happened quicker than I expected.

I knew Heyward would be batting third eventually, but I didn’t expect tonight!

I like it alot

and Prado needs to stop bunting, permanently. Unless the corner IF is way back, he needs to swing, as he’s one of (if not) our most consistent hitters.

This. WTF was that bunt attempt a few days ago? Pissed me off greatly.

I like LOVE!

FTFY

Remember how we hated the lineup on Sunday? Well… the opposite of that.

The Power of Heyward

Wow like the looks of this lineup.

At this point...

what could it hurt?

ZOMG YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kudos to Bobby for trying something different. I might prefer moving Chipper to the 2nd spot and having Heyward bat 3rd, but this line up has potential.

Alright guys, time to play a game:

Over/Under 125.1 comments in this thread?

Just under.

You lose

That’s what I get for being a newbie…. :)

Underestimating our posting abilities?

Darth Vader, I find you lack of being entertaining for Episode 1, 2, and 3 to be really disturbing. I don’t blame you though, I blame big head George Lucas.

4 1/2 hours til game time? Over

That didn’t take long

Depends on exactly what time the game thread goes up.

I’m saying over.

well even if it goes up an hour before at 4, that’s still like 3 hours for everyone to chat it up.

Over

I’m just gonna comment until it goes over.

Holy shit

that took a whole 45 minutes lol

It shouldn’t count, you started talking about terrible college FB…you knew that would get people going!

:)

I would talk about the possibility of bringing back Greg Norton as a bench player, but I didn’t want to make another thread.

that thread would be called Thunderdome 2 starring Greg Norton.

Over – then again, I didn’t see this thread until it already had 250+ comments.

Yipee!

Fantastic Lineup! Glad to see Heyward farther up! This is gonna be a great game.

This

You know what

I’d give Bobby a big ol hug right now if I could. Best lineup of the season so far.

Great lineup....

but I still can’t wait to have Yunel back in there, hopefully swinging a big bat.

This x22

Dude, I absolutely love this lineup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope we score 15

I still like a lineup with Escobar in it. But this is going to be fun to watch.

I like Prado hitting first. He usually bats second, and after the leadoff hitter doesn’t do anything he gets a hit anyway.
Let’s try to break the record that we set last night on the OT.

How come...

nobody went and got me from the other thread. Been over there all by myself… tear

you need to get on twitter. You will never miss a thread.

I am on twitter!

Only problem is I’m following DOB instead of who I should be following. Who is that exactly?

TALKING CHOP!

Whenever a story gets posted, it’ll tweet it or whatever and give you a link as well

Here I thought it was Cyborg Hanson...
lol jk.

Am following him though.

Good to go now.

This should be a fun science experiment from Cox. I don’t think Jason will have any problems batting in the 2 spot. He needs to have the same approach to hitting like he always had. I really like the idea of having more at bats for the Kid. Now the next 4 and a half hours will feel like an eternity.

McLouth at the bottom. I wonder if he'll stay in the starting lineup?
He's been there alot of the season

We need his defense in center

I meant the comment to mean that I wonder if he'll be out soon.
not really

it is a pretty small sample size but Melky’s UZR in CF has been better than Nate’s. i’d say it is negligible difference

UZR/150*

I gotcha

But Melky’s sample size is real small. His waist no longer is.

With UZR, a sample this small is next to worthless

He's been hitting some...

or at least more than Melky so far.

IMO, our OF hitting pecking order goes like this: Heyward>>>>>>Nate>>Melky>>>>>>>>>Diaz

it’s sad but I agree.

I like Nate...

for his defense and his walks even when he’s not hitting. And it’s not like we really have anybody else knocking on the door.

Well at least one out of Melky, Nate, and Matty D still have to play. Nate has the advantage by being the one out of the three who has hit the ball over the fence (twice)

I say he will but I believe Schafer will be called up and take over CF. Then we could get rid of Melky’s ass.

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
I was dismayed when Cox tried to bunt with Prado to advance the leadoff hitter in the first inning several nights ago.

That was absolutely ridiculous. Even had the bunt been successful and we scored the run on the Glaus single I still would never defend that decision.

Bobby has always been like that.

He wastes outs and puts all the pressure on one guy. Too many eggs in one basket.

I desperately hope whoever runs this team next has at least a little familiarity with ideas concieved sometime after 1965 or so.

When will Heyward be in the 3 spot

and chipper moves to the 5 spot as he should?

I'll keep asking for it...

Prado
Chipper
Heyward
Glaus
BMac
Escobar
Hinske/Diaz
McLouth/Melky
Pitcher.

Chipper is sensitive. If you move him into the 2 spot, he might not want to play baseball again (or as nearly as hard as he would).

bs

and the way he’s playing, it’ll be his last year anyway, or at least he said it would be if he played this way.

That lineup is pretty much perfect.

the more i think about it, the more i love it. Prado and Chipper get on base better than anyone else. Best hitter hitting 3rd. Power POWAH guy hitting 4th. And then a very balanced 5/6/7/8

Wrong, perfect would be...

Damon
Prado
Heyward
Chipper
Tex
McCann
Esco
KJ

Or perhaps…
Heyward
Heyward
Heyward
Heyward
Heyward
Chipper
McCann
Prado
with ghost runners in the form of McLouth, Infante, Esco, etc.

Damon?

I take it you missed the inclusion of Tex and KJ in there also?

jokes, I got ’em.

Yeah, I stopped reading at Damon. My fail.

think we could get Pujols and Utley

in some sort of a 3-team deal?

Maybe send Jo-Jo and Gregor Blanco to Philly to get them a leadoff hitter and 5th starter and then a guy like Melky could probably land us Pujols. We could send a little cash too in order to make it work.

WE CAN'T TRADE MELKY

cause if we do who will hit 3rd?

Ha, right…sorry

Mr Sanchez...

…I love the second lineup!!!

-500

heyward is not our best hitter (yet), stop trying to stick him there…..!

Who is better?

Name a single Braves hitter that is hitting better than him right now. Not Grandpa or Heap. POWAH is doing better, but still not Heyward.

this

He’s in his own stratosphere right now. If he’s not our best hitter, I’m the High King of Narnia.

pete orr

oh wait

There is a big difference in saying “Who had a better first month of the season?” and “Who is our best hitter?”

Heyward is the answer to the first question, and Chipper is easily the answer to the second question – followed not so closely by Prado and McCann, then somewhere else is Heyward in 4th.

Serious or sarcasm?

Chipper is in NO way a better hitter at this point.

Heyward is the answer to both

I was completely serious. Chipper is still one of the best hitters in the game, let alone the best on this team.

-_-

Chipper has been subpar since the end of 2008.

Have you been sleeping since then?

I posted this just last week, but here it goes again.

*sigh…

1. Does Chipper have the best average? No.
2. Does Chipper have the best eye? No.
3. Does Chipper have the most power? No.
4. Does Chipper have the best combination of all three? Yes.
5. Is Chipper the smartest hitter on the team? Yes.

Good post.

I agree with you that Chipper is still the best hitter on the team, slump or not. He has the most experience, and he’s very much a thinking man’s hitter. He’s basically the exact opposite of Matt Diaz.

How does Chipper have the best combo of all 3….at all?

For a year+ he’s had a -.270 AVG, and a sub 500 SLG

This is 2010, not 1999.

No, this is SPARTAAAA!

At this point, Heyward will have a higher OPS due to his SLG being way higher. He hits for a better average. He draws a lot of walks.

When you have better power, a better OPS, and hit for a better average….how are you not better?

Chipper is better because of his past, I would say.

Is J-Hey probably going to be the best hitter on the team in the future? Yes. Does he have the best numbers on the team right now? Yes. Is he the best hitter on the team? No. Justin’s right, he’s is probably 4th behind Chipper, Mac, and Prado. Probably even 5th behind Yunel. In baseball, you can’t take SSS and potential and choose to be so short-sighted about things.

“Chipper is better because of his past” is not an argument. That argument would work for Troy Glaus. He’s hit 40+ HR before, why not have him cleanup.

To say Heyward is only the 4th best….are we watching the same team? The same sport?

Obviously we are watching the same team and sport differently.

You want to claim that a 20 yr old kid is the best hitter on the team 6 weeks into the season, when the best hitter on the team has been here for 15 years and is simply banged up/struggling to regain his form. If he doesn’t regain that form, then sure. J-Hey is in the running. But to say that NOW, TODAY is asinine.

1. Yes, Heyward has more power – most 20 years olds do.
2. He IS hitting for a higher average – not he DOES hit for a higher average. Let’s not forget that Chipper is just a season and a half removed from a .360 average
3. He draws a lot of walks, but not as many as Chipper draws.

Whether he is our best hitter is impossible to determine.

“Is” means present tense. As we aren’t playing a game right now, it doesn’t matter. Has he been our best hitter so far this year? Yes, obviously. Will he be our best hitter for the rest of the year (which is what matters)? Who knows—-I assume Chipper and McCann and Escobar will rebound, and Heyward is still young, so time will tell. Will he be our best hitter in two or three years? Again, who knows, but I would put serious money on it.

In sum, I think he deserves the promotion to hitting second. If and when he shows that he can hit anywhere in the order and will continue to be our best hitter, we hopefully will put him in the third slot—-preferably when Chipper tells Bobby that he should do it.

yeah that might be the best

chipper does draw plenty of walks
better in the 2 hole then the five hole :)

Chipper in the 5 spot makes no sense if he isn’t going to be hitting for power.

What to do, what to do...

until game time. Think I might check out the new Dead Weather CD.

I am watching DVD collection of Entourage until 4 CDT then I am watching PTI and Around the Horn. That’s just me.

why aren’t you playing video games right now?

That's all the inspiration I need.
a great lineup...

i’m actually excited again to see the braves play. Prado could be a good leadoff option and has deserved the chance for quite some time now. with his average able to hover between 300-320, his obp is pretty consistently between 50&60 points higher than his average:
2008: .320 avg .377 obp
2009: .307 avg .358 obp
2010: .315 avg .368 obp

adding to that, his ops is .810 for his career and he’s only struck out 18 times in 140 plate appearances. that sounds like a pretty good leadoff hitter to me.

Good job Bobby!

now watch us get no-hit.
Bobby after reading this thread...

“I knew they’d like it. Fuckers think I’m not paying attention.”

He looks like Churchill in that picture… kind of.

Melky does not approve

He is the prototypical 3 hole hitter. Hits for average, hits for power, just flat out hits. The fact that he isn’t in the lineup just goes to show how much better Torre/Girardi are at their jobs than Bobby Cocks. Not to mention his speed! I’m extremely dissapointed with this lineup and may not even watch one second of this game, unless it’s late and Melky gets to pinch hit, I have the alert sent to my phone.

haha this!

No Melky= Happy Me

good lineup. wish Mclouth would start hitting though

Any of you guys/gals in here College FB fans?

Gators baby

thats wat im talking about

I’m a gator fan too.

The best bandwagon since 1991

boo

Ditto. Just Graduated.

Big Ten trying to go crazy. SEC trying to draw in FSU, Miami, Texas. Yeah I follow (a little).

I’ll pee my pants if Mizzou goes to the Big 10. I’m so sick of Big 12 football (and before you ask, I grew up in missouri and like their football 1000x more than Zona football)

That would be sick considering this will force a Big Ten Championship game but I am not sure about the expanding from 11 to 16. 16 teams in one division just sounds absurd.

i’m guessing they’ll take 1 but i doubt it would be Mizzou. I think ND and Nebraska gets the call before us because of prestige, but who knows.

ND will never take it. They are getting shit loads of money being Independent and having that exclusive NBC contract.

this

ND probably will never join a conference because all they care about is the money

Either way...

Nebraska still wins the division title consistently.

-C

Then they're idiots...

what are NBC’s ratings? And when they don’t renew the contract in a few years, or do it at a much smaller rate, they’ll be sad. And even then, the Big Ten offers more than NBC, so that makes no sense. Purdue and Indiana get bigger payouts than ND, so if money was the concern, joining the Big Ten is the obvious decision, not staying in no-man’s land.

that’s still a no. When ND goes to BCS or any Bowl for that matter, they get all the money whereas other conferences (speaking only for Pac 10) they have to split the money with all 10 schools.

That implies you make a bowl game...

or would accept lesser bowls. And again, with the Big Ten Network, the better financial decision is the conference, and it’s not close. Especially if the Big East falters, or the Big 10 expands it’s conference schedule which would have a huge impact on ND if it lost the mandatory 4 Big East games, or Michigan and some Big 10 matchups. If those games are no longer yearly battles, think NBC pays as much? If they think being independent is better financially than joining the Big 10, they are showing extremely limited foresight.

Based on what? Do you have the financial numbers to back that up?

Not hard numbers, no...

but in all this talk, it’s been repeatedly said that the Big Ten pays out over $20m to its members right now, and Notre Dame is making much less. And again, that is with the sweetheart deal from NBC that may or may not still be there after the contract ends.

Do you have numbers that would say I’m wrong?

Yea and that NBC is contract is large, but it’s not endless. Once that stops they are screwed.

That’s still a no. I am totally not on here to fight for ND (hell I hate them due to the rivalry btw Stanford and ND) but they have a strong booster program that contributes lots of money back to the football program. Trust that ND football will be fine financially for years to come.

they at least are going to play Michigan for like another 30 years at least. They renewed that contract like last year. They are still going to play U$C because they are rivals. They will never have a problem finding good schools to play to boost NBC ratings. You might be shockingly surprise how many ppl love ND football.

 They are not in no-man’s land. They don’t have to share their riches. All I hear about is the advantage they have staying independent. People who run ND aren’t idiots, so i’m sure they know the advantages of their NBC deal. I bet NBC will renew & i’d be surprised if they lower the rate.

And those advantages are?...

Or they can’t be eliminated by an expanded conference. Be short sighted if you’d like, but the current set up of Notre Dame will not continue as is without a) them becoming a football program that they haven’t been in decades, and b) other shuffling that puts them in an extremely precarious position scheduling. There are only so many service academies.

Does the Big Ten have 11 teams?

Yep

that would be tight. Mizzou was my second favorite in the Big 12 behind Texas. How good are will they be this year?

could be great, could be decent. for the first time in forever the biggest questions are probably at WR and QB. Blaine Gabbert is a stud, but it’ll be interesting to see if he can live up to his potential of a NFL QB. The WRs are all unproven, but they all have a ton of upside.

No offense, Big 12 stinks and needs to really change their alignment. (Texas, Oklahoma, and Texas Tech should not be on the same division.)

yea it is lopsided alot

Yep we are the Big Televen

OSU, Michigan, MSU, Minnesota, Penn State, Purdue, Wisconsin, Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, and I am missing one more.

IOWA

sorry bout the caps lol

they come to Arizona this year. I’ll definately be there.

Who’s going to run the Pac 10 this year? My money is on Stanford and it’s future number 1 draft pick Andrew Luck.

ohhh I think it’ll be USC and Oregon battling for it again. Stanford could do it but they’ll have to fix up that defense and adjust to life w/o TG.

I’m keeping an eye on Washington with Locker.

LOLZ. Washington is shit.

their BBall team is gonna be sick next year though

maybe, I hope Pac 10 just show up this year in Basketball.

How long do you think Johnny Dawkins will be around?

Big recruits coming to the Farm this year. We have like four 4-star players feeling in crucial spots on the team. He is not doing that bad of a job just had shitty luck when it comes to recruiting due to the last coach leaving us with no legit recruits behind. There is a story behind it but I will not go into it.

I’m influenced by the media. They make it sound like Locker can carry a team. I’m an SEC guy, though. So I don’t really know anything about PAC-10

Fair enough. It’s usually U$C, a flavor of the month team out of nowhere, and the team that beats U$C will get crazy love. That’s about it.

Got ya. I really don’t even a choice of who to watch from the Pac-10. I like Oregon though, they are fun to watch.

Who do you like in the SEC? I am going to assume UGA.

I’m a Gator.

Ugh. I hate the gators but I respect them and their fans. I really do not like the Swamp but envy the atmosphere. Must be amazing.

I’ve been to every home game for the past 6 years. Sadly I graduated so that streak is going to come to an end. Great time tough.

Great couple years

But man I despise you guys.

Understandable. I don’t hold it against anyone. I don’t like other SEC schools either. But I still cheer for them.

over-rated
*clap clap clapclapclap

Stanzi is the Manzi

and our wrestling is crazy good.

You might actually have a chance to win something without Texas or Oklahoma...

but alas, Nebraska or Ohio St will still keep the Tigers from winning a championship, ever.

If it wasn’t for the horseshit Big 12 title game, we would’ve been in the National Title game in 2008. Who knows what woulda happened. That team was insane.

Not really...

and you’d have still been blasted by any of several SEC teams that year.

There were some scary defenses that year.

It’s all about the Cardinal, Bama, FSU, and anybody SEC not name Florida.

FSU and Miami won't be joining the SEC...

they add nothing to the revenue, plus Florida likely won’t allow it. Now Texas or North Carolina, they would be considered.

Texas has the highest chance of joining the SEC and even then the odds aren’t that great because the SEC is already the best conference

if Texas goes SEC, there will be no more debate about who should be in the title match. SEC Champ and whoever is hot during that season.

Texas joins whoever they want...

with what they bring to the table, they do what they want in this. They are what Notre Dame wishes it was in these discussions.

I would like this to become even more true, and for Texas to revive the major independents.
UT Vawls

Can anyone name a starter for our team this coming season? I doubt it.

Jajuan James

Taurean Poole, among others.

And two of your coaches went to the same high school I did. I was actually once told by a mutual teacher that I’m, “just like Chuck Smith, without the talent.”

Yeah they'll be there

I can name a number that will too but our talent is way down.

It should be, that's kind of why Fulmer was fired...

and we all laughed at you over Kiffikins (whose lone signing class has already lost most of it’s top talent to thuggery, transfers, or other off the field nonsense).

Hey USC santions coming

down this week too. Kiffin wasn’t SEC.

I honestly can’t off the top of my head. Which is weird.

Janzen Jackson and Gerald Jones

would be the most noticable.

Right on. Hows the quarterback situation?

I would guess Simms the JUCO

Chris Simms will start but would guess Tyler Bray is in their midseason. He’s the early enrollee and who UT is hitching their wagon to for four years.

Matt Simms I think...

Chris is the former Longhorn and NFL QB.

Yep, you're right

He’s not that great but more experience. I’m rusty. Been off of Rivals the last couple weeks b/c of Braves.

Hook em
boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Auburn

LOLZ. Undefeated twice in the last 20 years and have nothing to show for it.

snubbed in ’84 also…

No lie I always thought you guys got jobbed in 2004-05 when Oklahoma went ahead of Auburn. No way Oklahoma was better considering the level of competition btw Big 12 and SEC.

Auburn deserved to be in that game

Yea, but we all saw it coming. the ESPN guru’s all said if (3) Auburn beat (5) Georgia, they would put us ahead of Oklahoma. I don’t know if you saw that game, but UGA didn’t score until just over a minute left in the game, 24-6 I think was the final. The following poll still had OU on top.

Offense sways votes. No love for Defense in the polls.

That’s the truth. But, there’s no denying what great defense can do championship wise. I hated every minute of it, but Alabama played the best defense I’ve ever seen this past season.

ROOLLLLL TIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man watching Bama football was amazing last year only because of that ridic Defense.

Tar Heels oh yeah!!

I’ve heard good things about their D.

Indeed our D is very good… now only if we had some O to go with it

BOISE STATE!!!!
We stole

Your Defensive Corrdinator

Justin Wilcox is pretty money…

YES! I'm from Idaho. Nice call!

they are killing the traditions of College Football.

What do you mean??

I assume he means BSU is destroying the major conferences...cause they are.

Preseason top-5 next year? Good for them, I’m a USC fan but BSU is #2.

I would think they would have to be a top-5. They have to get by Virginia Tech and Oregon State, as long as they don’t stumble I believe good things are in store for them this year.

If they go undefeated again, they have to get a shot at the Title
It would be a BS shot at the title.

Based on Americans’ tendency to do a collective mathfail, and the unreasonable Cult Of The Undefeated Team.

It would be 3 years in a row and they only lost 1 starter off of last year's team.

They beat a lot of really good teams, Oregon comes to mind. Utah. They deserve a shot after being snubbed the last 2 years. I’ve heard it said by people before, but if you underestimate BSU you are in for a rude awakening.

I don’t care what happened the last 2 years. I don’t care who’s been snubbed, or who’s done all that they can. I care, based upon the evidence of this year’s games, which two teams are the best guesses for “the best team in college football.”

I don’t think Boise can grab either of those spots without either faceplants by major conference teams or the voters being idiots and overvaluing undefeated seasons. Luckily for the Broncos, the voters are idiots, and they do overvalue undefeated seasons. So I’m not saying they won’t get a shot. Just that they shouldn’t.

Will you see that after they beat the other undefeated team?

That consenus #1…The Florida’s, Ohio State’s, Alabama’s of the world? Or will you say they got lucky and shouldn’t have been there in the first place?

I’m saying that the math skills that put them in the championship game are at a lower level than the English skills involved in saying something like “The Alabama’s of the world.”

So...you're saying the computer's are flawed and logic should prove they don't belong?

If that’s what you mean, I disagree, and feel it is the exact opposite.

The mathematical rankings are getting worse and worse, because they’re tweaking them more and more to match the flawed logic the voters use.

Maybe so, but if anything over the past few years

Boise State has gotten dicked. Maybe not royally, but a little bit. Playoff system or a new conference for Boise State. That’s about all that would change opinions anymore.

Basically, this is the problem with Boise:
The hidden risk of a college football season isn’t in one big game – it’s in the totality of playing a respectable schedule. As funny as it sounds, average teams are dangerous. Ask USC. This is what Boise apologists don’t get.

I agree with the whole BSU analysis here whence I got that. (though not all of the non-BSU analysis)

I agree with the first sentence.

However, I think you may be underestimating BSU’s conference and the fact that they do everything they can to schedule harder and harder teams. This debate probably won’t end until BSU gets invited to a major conference.

I don't think Boise is going to go to a major conference.

They’re doing the same thing SEC teams are doing, but a lot better.

boise aint going nowhere

Yeah, but all the while not getting national respect

or a shot at the title. Unless they get a shot at the title in their conference, I think they’ll jump at going to a different conference.

I think the Boise brass knows that they’re doing better in the WAC than they would against a decent schedule.

right but with the added money and exposure

who’s to say they wouldn’t begin to compete in a couple years, or wouldn’t hit the ground running and win 6 or 8 games? If you think they would struggle making the jump to the Mountain West I strongly disagree. Boise State would still be one of the top 3 teams there year in year out

It’s not that they’d struggle to compete. It’s that the rewards Boise gets for performing as they do in the WAC are greater than the rewards that they would get for performing as they would in the MWC.

No, he’s not. Conference stinks, comparatively.

Six of the nine teams are the schools that BCS teams schedule as gimme wins.

-C

You bring up good points; however, Boise schedules who they can, when they can. They are punished for playing in the WAC, but from what I know about college football (which isn’t much admittedly) it isn’t that easy to change conferences.

If there is no radical realignment...

…I would love to see Boise jump to the Mountain West. That would give Boise a tougher full schedule and make the Mountain West as good as many if not most of the BCS Conferences in football right now.

That is what I would like to see as well.

Yes. But you should, and it’s not even close, consider “they got through a Pac-10/Big 12/SEC/Such-A-Big-Ten-It’s-Really-Eleven/ACC with only one loss” more impressive than “they got undefeated through a WAC schedule with a non-conference schedule that balances Oregon with I-AA UC-Davis.” This is in much the same way that if I flip 10 pennies and get 9 heads, and you flip 2 and get 2 heads, my event was much more unlikely.

I don’t want NC game slots given away for pity because poor Boise State couldn’t get anyone to schedule them. I want them given to the two most impressively resumed teams.

People act like it’s a crime that teams won’t schedule Boise, but look at it from their position…they have a full conference slate of teams that all are playing at a pretty high level. Why add another huge wrench into that mix??

Lately, it seems that all the BCS conference teams have to schedule at least one worthy non-conference opponent, and I applaud that. But why would they choose Boise over a Texas, California or Florida school, where they can gain some influence in an area with prospects??

All Boise is doing is crying foul and playing defense politically. If they want to be big-time, then they have to strap ’em up, go find a BCS conference that will take them and set up shop in earnest.

I understand why teams don't schedule Boise.

It’s just frustrating as hell. Same thing with Gonzaga, until the last few years we couldn’t find any one to play us. But now that we’re on the national scene we’ve got true home and homes with Memphis, Michigan St., Oklahoma, the list goes on and on. So, I think it’s only a matter of time until BSU has the perfect storm place them in the title game, they dominate, and people start giving them the respect they deserve. They beat the #4 TCU team that supposedly people wanted in the title game. I mean, c’mon…

I think Boise has respect. But that doesn’t equate into the “Hey, I know you’re good, but you don’t play anyone” argument that keeps them out of the title game.

Respect is one thing, but a championship is another thing entirely. You don’t get a shot to win a championship by playing nobody and claiming the top spot because all the other teams beat each other’s brains out. You get there by playing at an extraordinarily high level week-in and week-out against high caliber opponents.

-C

And in my opinion, nobody can claim to be the national champion of college football until there is a playoff of some sort.

Sure they can claim it. They do.

But more to the point, unless a championship is supported by the teams involved, or an organization they belong to. If any organization that all the D-IA teams belong to/support, such as the NCAA, makes a championship, then it’ll be legit.

Sure they can claim it, hell, the NCAA can even crown a team a ‘champion’ without a playoff, but I, and a ton of other people think it is BS.

I can claim that Boise would’ve beat Alabama last year, and you know what, nobody can tell me I’m wrong because we will never know!

I agree with you

…you stupid Gael

By the same token, I can claim that Tulane would’ve beat Bama, and you know what, nobody can tell me I’m wrong because we will never know.

Sure you can claim that; however, Tulane won three games last year, they were a horrible team. They wouldn’t have made the playoffs if there was a system in place. Tulane didn’t meet the challenge of beating every team that was placed before them as Boise State did.

Either way, “You can’t prove me wrong, so I can claim it” is a dumb thing to say.

Eh...I disagree

We’ll have to agree to disagree. I believe that Boise State should be in the National Championship talk because of the way college football is currently constructed, and obviously, you don’t.

They were undefeated, they beat everybody they played including Oregon, Nevada, and TCU, they deserved to be in the discussion for national champion just like Alabama.

Protip: bringing out your top 3 wins including Nevada is exactly why it’s ridiculous to say you belong in the same conversation as Texas and Bama.

Wait...

Did you watch Nevada play last year? They were pretty good. One of the top 10 rushing teams in the nation averaging over 350 yards per game.

Their only losses were to Notre Dame, Mizzou, Boise, and Colorado State, all decent teams with the exception of Colorado State. Yeah, it was a quality win.

Like I said before, they schedule the games they can schedule. If people don’t want to play them, there isn’t much they can do.

I am going to make it simple. While Boise State maintains a great football team, their conference and their schedule allows them to win all of their games in a easier manner than say a school from the SEC. Granted it’s not their fault that nobody wants to play them, they are however forcing the issue that small schools should be allowed to play in the title games or BSC spots. Thus, making life for the Big Schools more of a problem. Therefore the tradition of college football, Big Schools having total control over the spot light and not having to share their name as best in the country with a small school that is also undefeated. (This paragraph might sound trite but that is the way I see it.)

  • is not the same due to it. (add that to the last sentence. Fail on my part.)
Like BYU in 84? Short memories suck.

Boise State is cool
Im a Gators fan.

I assumed most everyone would be SEC fans. Its really interesting to how diverse everyone is.

Yes i love colllege football. and i’m a gal.

Yes. Grew up Tiger Stadium + now I go to Autzen = I get loud.

Switch Heap and Glaus and its perfect-until Escobar returns.

Who’s a better cleanup, Heap or Glaus?

Glaus. Heap has never looked comfortable batting cleanup.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AqYSrxyV_M9VYGSj46Fqo0U5nYcB?slug=jp-tendegrees051010

Why is Heyward 8th? I demand answers!!!

Pumped

1. We get to see Heyward hit more, always good.

2. Both Chipper and Heyward now have protection and guys to drive them in when they get on base like madmen.

Cyborg Hanson was hilarious last night, I suggest everyone check it out if they haven’t.

do you have a link?

:)

http://twitter.com/CyborgHanson48
Anybody else...

know that Cincy is 17-15 and 2nd place in the Central? I didn’t…

Yeah, saw that yesterday…interesting.

yeah but how long will that last though. I can’t wait for June when all of this stuff makes sense again.

Now if Brian McCann could start seeing again and get some hits we could be putting together a nice little lineup here.

This. I can’t wait to see signs of the old Heap back at the plate.

I know this has already been said a hundred times. But god damn I’m excited Heyward is back. So awesome.

is it 8:05 yet?

I think we all wish it was.

WOOOOOO!

http://brewersbeat.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/05/braun_out_edmonds_hitting_thir.html

Just got the tweet from Cyborg Hanson!

NIIIIICE!!!

You shouldn’t revel in the injury of another player, its uncouth.

If Phillies fans said they weren’t glad that Heyward was out this weekend, they’re liars

LOL did you read the other game recap from last night?

How we should we shouldn’t be glad that Braun was out? I skimmed it. I can only handle so much WRONG

I mean, it’s not like I revel in the injuries of others. I would have loved it if Madson were available to get lit up again over the weekend.

Looks to be quite an interesting game shaping up tonight.

However I fear the places Chip may take the conversation with all his “fisting” and an opposing pitcher named Bush.
How in the world will Joe keep a straight face?

He said “off the thumbs” last night. I was rather shock. Just means he is getting a little better but that’s really not saying much.

meh not a great lineup.
btw dont let my username confuse you. I am a huge Sox fan but my NL team will always be the Braves.

Melky Cabrera hit 3rd for us last weekend.

Everything looks great after that.

Honestly...

did we ever figure out what that was about? I bet someone wagered Cox he didn’t have the balls to do it.

oh wow
Now I understand ;)

I'm late to the party I see

and I don’t have time to read all the other comments. Let me just say two things:
1) Prado is finally hitting leadoff! Thank you, Bobby!
2) I’m not sure about Heyward at #2, but other than that this looks about as good as a lineup can look, given our various issues right now.

I kinda like the lineup today.

Around 300 comments just on the fact that Heyward is playing. You guys are crazy and have a lot of free time. haha

Sabermetics + Logic. According to the book.

Logic and stats tell us that we need our best hitters hitting 1, 2, and 4.

The 4th guy because he comes up with guys on base more than anyone. (statisically and logically it makes sense.) if any of the 1-3 guys get on base the 4th guy comes up.

For the rest of the season, I imagine bMac, Heyward and Prado will be our best 3 hitters, so bobby nailed this one the head.

The 3 hole is actually the 5th most important spot.
If you want to argue about the lineup, you must read “the book”. Or just read this post.
http://www.insidethebook.com/
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/3/17/795946/optimizing-your-lineup-by

“Lead-Off

The old-school book says to put a speedy guy up top. Power isn’t important, and OBP is nice, but comes second to speed.

The Book says OBP is king. The lead-off hitter comes to bat only 36% of the time with a runner on base, versus 44% of the time for the next lowest spot in the lineup, so why waste homeruns? The lead-off hitter also comes to the plate the most times per game, so why give away outs? As for speed, stealing bases is most valuable in front of singles hitters, and since the top of the order is going to be full of power hitters, they’re not as important. The lead-off hitter is one of the best three hitters on the team, the guy without homerun power. Speed is nice, as this batter will have plenty of chances to run the bases with good hitters behind him."

“The Two Hole

The old-school book says to put a bat-control guy here. Not a great hitter, but someone who can move the lead-off hitter over for one of the next two hitters to drive in.

The Books says the #2 hitter comes to bat in situations about as important as the #3 hitter, but more often. That means the #2 hitter should be better than the #3 guy, and one of the best three hitters overall. And since he bats with the bases empty more often than the hitters behind him, he should be a high-OBP player. Doesn’t sound like someone who should be sacrificing, does it?"

according to this… heyward should be 4. B-Mac should probably 2.(Assuming that hes gonna bounce back) Chipper should be #1.

Brewers Lineup

Weeks 4 Gerut 7 Edmonds 8 Fielder 3 McGehee 5 Zaun 2 Hart 9 Escobar 6 Bush 1

For a second

I thought you were both dislexic and unable to place a proper batting order up.

Copied it off the Brewers blog. Too lazy to make it look all pretty.
i was just thrown off
Anybody else love how we have more comments on this thread...

than other teams do on their game threads? We fucking rock.

lol
on the Bruins gamethread there are about 65 comments
Red Sox one is normally pretty good.

And the Buins are in the playoffs

exactly
there is NO action over there

I feel like most fans probably use a different blog that is not associated with SB nation.

Either we rock or we have no life at all.

Just wanna say

I love this lineup. Go get ’em boys.

Great lineup tonight folks! Hate that I got a meeting at 6! Maybe I can be home by 8:30!
Go Braves!

the amount of comments is insane

I gotta save some in reserve for the gamethread

I bet

Huddy gets a hit tonight

let’s hope it’s a Home Run or a double.

No he’s going to hit for the cycle. twice.

I hope I didn’t miss anything good while “z’ing” through the football comments. meh, oh well.

Do you like conference expansion talk?

If not, you didn’t miss a thing.

Nice lineup

I like that Bobby is finally changing the lineup up, but I would rather have Heyward hit in the 3rd slot. My lineup would be…
1. Infante
2. Prado
3. Heyward
4. Chipper
5. McCann
6. Glaus
7. Hinske
8. McLouth

Hopefully the Bravos will pick up another W tonight!

This new lineup is better balanced. You have two righties at the top and two lefties at the bottom. The new lineup rotates R, L all the way down.

Who woulda thought that J-Hey would bat second in only his second month in the MLs?
I LOVE this lineup
I posted this exact lineup on the FANPOST section a day ago:

My Braves lineup, what do you think?
 by mastermike on May 10, 2010 12:35 PM PDT 12 comments

The lineup
When Escobar comes back, if I was the manager (which I ain’t), I would go with this lineup:

1.2B Martin Prado R
2.RF Jason Heyward (L)
3.3B Chipper Jones (S)
4.C Brian McCann (L)
5.1B Troy Glaus R
6.LF Eric Hinske (L)
7.SS Yunel Escobar R
8.CF Nate McLouth (L)
I like the righty-lefty balance and I like Escobar in the 7 hole, he hit well last year when getting dropped down in the order. The only thing is Heyward isn’t in a RBI producing spot, but the upside is he will get more PA’s and maybe he could do something when Prado gets on base. Having Chip protected in the front by Heyward and in the rear by Mac could also pay off and maybe produce some RBI’s for him. I say enough of the Diaz and Melky experiment.

Hinske is 3rd on the team in RBI with 9, and he has done it in 32 PA’s.

Hinske has a 1 RBI in every 3.5 PA rate (small sample, but he has been productive). Heyward is 3.30 PA/RBI. Glaus is second in RBI but has a 6.25 PA/RBI rate.

NEEDLESS TO SAY I LOVE THIS LINEUP :)

Thankfully, Heyward is so good, he doesn’t need men on to get RBIs…..

YES!!!!

I have only been saying for Bobby to do this since like the 2nd week of the season. Of course Infante and Hinske weren’t in the line up because Escobar was quite healthy and I had hope for Cabrera/Diaz.

Now we just need these guys to hold it together till Schafer proves he’s healthy and can come play CF for us moving McLouth over.

Is Schafer coming up actually realistic or are people getting ahead of themselves?

That really depends on Schafer.

with how bad our OF is right now...

gotta believe he is coming up

August at earliest…

This

He is having to take baby steps with the wrist. I don’t see him up until after the All-Star break at the earliest. Might not get up until the Sept call ups, imo. :(

any NLL fans?

Lacrosse? They hardly show it on TV so I am going to say no.

yeah I wish it was on tv more
the championship game is on Sunday at 2:00 pm

Are you a Blazers fan? I used to go to quite a few Stealth games when they were in San Jose. I played club lacrosse in college, getting bigger out here on the West Coast.

oh yeah huge Blazers fan. I went to the playoff game they lost in Orlando this year.
Im tryint to get my NLL blog in SBNation. Just need a few more followers and the spot is mine.
The Stealth are in the champions cup. They will kill Toronto I think.

Very nice! I hope they win, I’m still sad they moved to Washington :(

yeah that must of hurt
btw thanks for Anthony Cosmo ;)

He was so savage for the Stealth in 2007. Technically we traded him to Chicago, but y’all lucked out :)

haha
yeah we lucked out twice. When Arizona dispersed, we got Dan Dawson.
Here, check out my blog.
It could be on SBNation soon.

I LOVE your avatar!!
 

Who also hate the timing of the game being 7 CDT instead of 6?

is Braun playing?

If you'd like to open a can of worms, tell us whether you're glad he's out of the lineup.
Speaking of Braun....

He apparently broke one of the unspoken rules of baseball. If you get hit by a pitch, you’re NOT supposed to rub it until you’re at least back in the dugout. It’s in the unwritten book, seriously. Instead, Braun stood on first base for about five minutes rubbing it himself, then having the Brewers’ trainers rub it for him, all while holding up the game. Tsk tsk….

If you add in the fact that Davis hitting McCann was obviously intentional, then yes – I’m glad Braun is out of the lineup.

Thurman Munson would've laughed at him.

He reminded me of a skittish horse, balking at the starting gate. I have no doubt that “Hanson Fastball Off The Elbow” would have been a nice item for the Spanish Inquisition to use but really…enough with the hemming and hawing at first base. In or out, but make up your mind.

 As we say around here, shit or get off of the pot.

Good lord, that was ridiculous.

still nursing his Sandy Vag Syndrome.

SVS has claimed many victims.

335 posts on the lineup? WTG TC!

we like to party

Hi My name is Dave. And uh, I like to party.

Hi. I’m here for the gang-bang.

The posting on Craigs List was a fake. Go away, or I’m calling the police.

You fail at movie quote recognition.

:)

Not really.

I just changed the reference to something else.

"I recommend you stop being such a faggot. You're in the backseat."

Forgot about that one…classic.

So guys, who ya got tonight?

Cavs or Celtics?

I really couldn't care less about the NBA.

Unless a Gonzaga player is on their team, I pay zero attention!

BOOOOO GONZAGA!!! GO SAINT MARY’S!!!

I am officially no longer your friend!

Fucking Omar Hamsandwich. Thanks for the embarrassment if the WCC tourney, although you are still our red-headed little brother…

lol…and we were so close after the shared love for Boise State.

Did you go to ’Zaga?

Whitworth (10 mins north)

But my cousin a year younger played on scholly for 4 years for the women’s team and my other cousin Mike Leasure was on the Elite 8 team in ’99

Oh ok. I graduated from SMC in 2004. I had the pleasure of watching Blake Stepp dominate us repeatedly.

Haha, Dickau's my favorite Zag probably.

Not gonna lie, if Patty Mills doesn’t get hurt the year before last you probably win the WCC and go deep in the tourney. That sucked…well for you anyways! haha, I live in Nashville now and we bought the NCAA tournament package just so we could watch GU and SMC dominate!

I know! Man, that was such a freak injury for Patty Mills. I’m sure we would’ve won the WCC if he wasn’t hurt :) Honestly, I think this years SMC team was better, more well-rounded without Mills.

I don’t harbor any irrational hate for the Zags, except for Morrison, I HATE HATE HATE that guy. One of my favorite sports memories is watching him cry on the floor after losing to UCLA.

Really? Cuz I have never in my adult life as a fan felt physical pain from a loss before that.

My stomach literally hurt. That was one of the worst sports moment’s of my life! You guys had a good team this year, no doubt. What was so frustrating for the Zags was their inconsistency. I mean, we beat you guys pretty handily twice and then just collapsed in the WCC Tourney. I really like our team for next year though, but I’m starting to question Few’s in game coaching ability

moments. wtf apostrophe?

My bad, I can imagine how you felt. I mean, I felt bad for Zaga, but not Morrison.

I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw the score of the WCC championship game. I said, “You have to be kidding me, that must be a typo.”

Y’all will be good next year. You always are!

Watch for Elias Harris to take another huge step forward

and a kid named Sam Dower, RS freshman PF/C. Gonna be fun! How’s your team without Samhan coming back?

You know…it’ll be interesting. We are losing Samhan, that’s about it though. We will live and die by the 3…

Is Ben Allen still there? He really turned it on halfway through the season or so.

Then you got McConnell and Dellavedova, but I don’t think either are quality defenders. I can’t stand Dellavedova on any level, but it looks like the WCC is getting stronger top to bottom.

Random: I put food coloring in my dog's water for 2 weeks

and she drank the colored water more than the clear water.

Because everyone knows that purple is the best flavor.

Yeah she told me that herself after the 1st week

any baseball fans?

wait

I forgot what site I was on.

Nice

I was kind of wondering that, too.

Now thats the lineup i've been waiting for

Anyone else want to bludgeon the two guys in the Staples commercial who keep shouting about low prices?

WOW!!!!!!!!! THAT'S A LOW PRICE!!!

Why

are you pouring salt in the wound?

How bout the other guy, who has been in other stuff, being like the worst actor in the world?

So fucking annoying.

+However many you want.

Best lineup when the time comes

1. Prado
2. Yunel
3. Heyward
4. McCann
5. Chipper
6. Glaus
7. Hinske
8, Mclouth

By the end of the year, Schafer will hopefully be ready to slide into the 7 or 8 spot, replacing Hinske

Why do you have our best power guy hitting 6, our biggest DP thread hitting 2nd and our best OBP guy hitting 5th?

Insanity.

That’s why.

*Thread = Threat.

Glaus, best power?

Now I know you’ve lost it

I really really really hope you are being sarcastic.

Our best power guy is a lot younger than Glaus

Are you kidding? Glaus has the most raw power on this team.

Let’s just assume that Heyward has the most power – do you bat him 4th or 5th? He belongs in the 2-hole right now, so that leaves Glaus as the most powerful hitter – either way, Glaus in the 6-spot is a dumb idea – especially if Chipper’s power has declined as it seems it has.

nah

it can get too exposed late in games by bullpens.

You have R, R, L, L, S, R, L, L

I think Heyward will hit a grand slam in the first inning.

I think you're right
Just about 400 comments in here

That’s all you guys got?

you mine as well open up the game thread? I know I don’t have any better to do at this particular moment.

No, we have more.

ESPN E60 is on and they are suppose to have something about Heyward in this one just an fyi

Right now it's Mariano Rivera, but hopefully they have J-Hey coming up!

yea but the mariano thing is pretty interesting i guess

yeah it is!

well his wife isn’t a gold digger…known each other since panama…yeeeesh

if they didn’t already show this on sportscenter the other day

Heyward Next!!!

Yep,

it’s nice :)

  1. is nothing short but an amazing player.

22 Jason Heyward.

and there it goes

I miss Escobar :\

and his magnetic necklace. One day I’ll have $23 to burn, and on that day I will have my very own magnetic necklace.

According to the Gameday thing on mlb.com chipper isnt in the lineup they have it as follows:
McLouth
Prado
Heyward
McCann
Glaus
Hinske
Infante
Conrad
Hudson

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