Talking Chop

Thanks

I kept thinking it was hit so hard that he wouldn’t have time to get to second, but it was a standup double. That ball, by the way, was also scorched.

gondeee - April 7, 2010 reply

I dont have Peachtree so unfortunately I couldnt see it but Im sure I will see it 100 time on baseball tonight

Heyward has the 3 hardest hit balls of the year so far.

The HR, the 2B, and the 1B from the opener that almost killed the pitcher.

Sound off the bat

I kept reading about how the sound off Heyward’s bat was different, but I just thought that the difference was probably negligible. But man! There really IS a different sound. That was amazing.

B_Mac - April 8, 2010 reply

THIS IS BRAVES COUNTRY

royhobbs - April 7, 2010 reply

Looks like, in the boxscore

They went back and corrected it so that neither of JJ’s runs were earned. Not that he pitched a great inning, but between the missed call (should have been a double play) and the error at first, he did deserve to get out of that unscathed.

I was a little concerned though

By how unsettled/hurried he got. I know the guy is young, but he seemed to get wayyyy too anxious after both plays (the bad call and then later the error). I know its a pressure situation, but I was just surprised to see how under the skin he seemed to let that stuff get to him. Dempster on the other hand (when his bases were all loaded), was cool as shit and completely unfazed and proceeded to throw some nasty strikeouts to Escobar/Glaus. I’m guessing thats something that comes with experience? I dno. Just surprised to see that kind of emotion/anxiety in the first start of the season.

sag969 - April 7, 2010 reply

Well

Smoltzie had some good things to say about it. How, especially early in the season, it’s easy to forget your third pitch, and it seemed like he hadn’t used his change-up. So when he needed it in that 5th inning, he wasn’t able to locate it because he hadn’t thrown any the first few times he’d been out there.

changeup is definitely his second pitch

just a lot of rightys. He usually throws it a lot to rights as well.

nathan rothschild - April 8, 2010 reply

I said this in the other GT

We’ve put up nearly 4,000 comments in the first 2 Game Threads of the season. Looking around SBN, the only blogs who (might) be able to compete with Talking Chop are the Giants’ and Rockies’. We’re on a roll.

Keep it up!

I dunno how hard it is, but McCovey Chronicles had links to each in the recap (I think). (I went to check something for my roommate & his parents who’re up here from the Bay Area. This weekend’s gonna be fuuuun.)

AllSaintsDay - April 7, 2010 reply

The Giants fans are all giddy over winning 3 in a row over the shitty Astros. I know 3 wins is 3 wins…but come on.

I wonder if Philly fans are psyched

After winning 2 against the Natinals? I hope not. I think they should know better after winning a WS.

The Giants may be good pitching-wise, but they’re going to have trouble scoring runs against teams that can pitch well. Like, oh, I dunno… The Braves.

My college roommate is from Philly

And he already thinks Philly has the division with their 2 wins… idiot…

happyplayer23 - April 8, 2010 reply

his parents who’re up here

That’s risky apostrophe placement my friend!

haha

I dunno…the Cardinals and the Mariners have huge game thread activity.

soup du jour - April 7, 2010 reply

The Cardinals are also in the conversation and i had never looked at the Mariners site before, but it seems pretty popular as well. I guess I was just trying to say Talking Chop is legit.

No doubt about that!

soup du jour - April 7, 2010 reply

Dempster is a right-handed pitcher

And most of the starting lineup had their struggles against him today. So should we be worried that the starters swung and missed so much against a right hander?

SmithnCompany - April 7, 2010 reply

No, I wouldn't read too far into it. Dempster was just ON

kreese555 - April 7, 2010 reply

Sarcasm detector fair

to be honest

the only weakness i see right now is troy glaus and that is against righties and lefties.

SmithnCompany - April 7, 2010 reply

Well

He was hitting the ball really well during the spring. I think we should wait more than 2 games to decide he needs to work on some things. And besides, even our best estimations for him involved him striking out a lot-he always has.

Oh my goodness

Troy Glaus is a veteran. He’s had what… 9 whole at bats this season? Give the man some freakin time. Dempster was filthy tonight and none of our hitters looked very good against him.

We have 160 games to go; if we’re considering making roster changes based on 2 game stretches, it’s gonna be a long, long, long season.

+1

Overreaction gets you nowhere in baseball.

That is why Bobby Cox has won 2,000+ games: patience.

Exactly...

sddbaker - April 8, 2010 reply

lol, did i say we needed to make a roster change?

let alone a lineup change? though i do think the latter would not be a bad idea.

SmithnCompany - April 7, 2010 reply

i know you didn't

I was just trying to make the point of people need to stop worrying about Glaus. You’re right, you never said we needed to make a lineup change, but even bringing up his “weaknesses” seem a little silly, because the man has been a professional for 10 years and he’s only had 9AB’s this year.

Now if he’s still struggling in 2-3 weeks, we should definately start to worry a bit. But let’s just cross that bridge if it gets here.

Also, from my vantage point, it just looked to me last night like he was just a split second late on the fastball. Yeah, he swung at a few balls outside of the strike zone, but it’s not like he was missing balls by 3 feet. I think it’s just getting his regular season timing back, that’s all. Although from TV, it looked liked he had a couple fans behind him that were on his a$$. They were wearing Braves gear.

Yeah...

the fat guy who kept jumping up and throwing his hands up over his head. What a jerk.

sddbaker - April 8, 2010 reply

geeez....

its posts like these that make me want to stop reading………….two games. He is a professional baseball player and you are an overreacting fan. Would you rather have FUGA? Francis Francour? Shaeffer? i could keep going……. The 2010 braves are 2-0 and its an exciting team….way to focus on the negative. later in the season if he is still flailing away at the plate, by all means comment about a change or some extra tips from all of your experience at the plate….but two games, two games, you wanna talk about two games(insert jim moras voice here.)

bluelg - April 8, 2010 reply

Who are these Francour and Shaeffer people that you refer to?

Chipper wasn't looking too hot either

Until the bot of the 8th.

Give Glaus some time, the guy is a veteran and had a good spring.

sag969 - April 7, 2010 reply

If Spring Training stats are meaningless (which they mostly are)

then 2 games’ worth of stats are even more meaningless. Unless they apply to Heyward, in which case, yes, he is totally going to hit 81 HRs and drive in 405 runs.

those numbers might break a few records, but im not positive. i’m sure one of your long research posts might be able to find some answers for us though!

FYI, the extra game threads were simply removed from the front page, but are still available if you search for them. Just enter in the text for game thread that does appear and the search should return the other two.

You can also click the word ARCHIVES at the top and they will be listed.

NCChopper - April 7, 2010 reply

Braves Baseball is Back!

With a closer that doesn’t cause heart attacks. Let’s go Hanson for the broomsticks.

romone_braves91 - April 7, 2010 reply

Who is pitching for the Cubbies tomorrow

Randy Wells, who had a pretty damn lucky rookie season, IIRC.

I'm predicting a blowout

7-1 Bravos.

Lefty or righty???

hint: use the little +reply button

and he’s a righty.

KJ homered in the 1st inning in AZ

thata boy Kelly!

I was just about to post that. Somebody is watching baseball tonight.

yep

and now it’s Braves time!

We lead over the Yankees on ESPN.

first time ever…

I do hope Kelly has a good season, but I really want Prado to have a good season as well.

he’s also hitting lead off

Braves24 - April 7, 2010 reply

He homered twice in that game.

Gage23 - April 7, 2010 reply

I just rec’d this.

I still love me some KJ...

I don’t think he got a proper chance to regain his job, BUT I’m glad he’s doing well now in AZ. He’s on pace to hi 108 HR with 162 RBI. I think he can do it!

Now LaRoche needs to get into the act, slow start be-darned!

Jareth Cutestory - April 8, 2010 reply

totally off topic, my apologies

Does anyone know for sure if its Lowe or Kawakami on Saturday Night? I live in the Bay Area and I’m busy all weekend but if Lowe is pitching saturday night (i know, i know, it should be the other way around but i like d-lowe) I might leave something early and go. both are listed on different probables sites, anything in the AJC straight from Bobby? something like that?

15ks - April 7, 2010 reply

According to braves.com it will be Lowe on Saturday

Pretty sure its Lowe vs The Freak.

I'd take that matchup

I know we beat Profesor Snape last season, but beating him again on Saturday won’t be easy. I’d rather throw our worst pitcher out there against him and then try to win 2 out of 3 with Huddy and KK.

KK ‘’the dragon slayer’’ let him pitch

that’s what i was hoping and thinking originally, right now its down to just yahoo sports calling for kawakami vs wellemeyer. everywhere else says lowe vs tbd. my friend told me the giants are really rigid with their rotation and it will likely be wellemeyer for them, which i’d take in a second, possibility for a DLW if needed.

15ks - April 7, 2010 reply

Everyone buy Yahoo!

seems to agree Lowe vs. Lincecum… but we’ll have a better idea by Friday presumably

I’m going to know for sure on Sunday if we don’t know by Friday.

I feel bad for JJ. He has about as much luck as Smoltz in pitching good games and not getting the win. JJ’s game wasn’t great, but it was a hell of a lot better than Lowe’s.

Glaus looked absolutely lost out there tonight.

Great to see Chipper actually trying to hit for power rather than hitting to try and boost his average.

Sparhawk - April 7, 2010 reply

Well, it's a double edged sword

Rafael Furcal was a hell of a lot more valuable when he was making contact and showing plate patience than when he was swinging for the fences.

Chipper’s at the point where he doesn’t have the bat speed to just cock back and try to hit everything on the screws-he’ll end up hurting himself more that way. But he does need to produce some kind of power.

~ Viva los Bravos ~

Chief Noc-A-Homa - April 7, 2010 reply

Great win today

Not because we played well, but because we won despite playing poorly. These are the kinds of wins that make the difference in a playoff season. Everyone has off days, but if you can win a few of those, you’re in business.

amen brother

we still gotta win the games when everyone isn’t on top of their game. we won’t have many games like Monday’s.

I happen to think that

we’ll have plenty of games like Monday’s game. Though we aren’t Heyward virgins any more, so they won’t feel quite as good.

haha

I just meant we wont score 16 runs very often and have basically every break or call go our way. I’m sure we’ll have some pretty dominate games tho.

Oh, by the way...

Chipper’s HR took the Braves from a 34% chance of winning to an 87% chance of winning. Not bad for a greybeard.

FWIW, Chipper in the postgame said he was looking changeup up in the zone, got one, and crushed it.

UMDBHIK - April 7, 2010 reply

I absolutely hate how mlb tv cuts off

Any post game interviews. Chipper was in the middle of the interview when all of a sudden they cut it off. At least wait till the broadcast goes to their first commercial!

sag969 - April 7, 2010 reply

I just appreciate

Chipper’s Star Wars reference. He said he was playing “jedi mind tricks” out there when he stole a base the other day

Jareth Cutestory - April 8, 2010 reply

way to rally

it’s always nice to hear that at least one of your teams won their game. (The Hawks lost, which sucks)

hawves - April 7, 2010 reply

go bobcats

Since ur a braves fan, I only half-way hate u

a hooter's baby - April 8, 2010 reply

damn right go Bobcats

mad_dog_maddux - April 8, 2010 reply

go Suns

beat the Spurs last night…no, OWNED the Spurs last night!

Jareth Cutestory - April 8, 2010 reply

BTW, gondeee

It says that Chipper is the “elder statesmen”, which I think is wrong. Unless he has multiple personalities? One who hits righty, the other lefty?

I don’t think it means what you think it means

rhinoskin - April 8, 2010 reply

INCONCEIVABLE!

Games like this

Is what make me dislike the offense and Derek Lowe! JJ pitches a decent game and has a ND to show for it. Lowe pitches like crap and still gets the win!

Jay212033 - April 7, 2010 reply

It just shows that the “win” stat doesn’t mean shit.

get swoll yunel - April 8, 2010 reply

this

Except at the end of the year...

then that “win” stat seems pretty important, and you’re hoping for at least 90 or more of them combined.

They’re obviously talking about wins for starters

Which is a good thing...

getting a win by a starter means he lasted at least 5 innings, likely longer, and the bullpen wasn’t trading leads or needing to hold someone up for a comeback. Is it as indicative of a pitcher’s performance as FIP or some other advanced metric, or as more commong stats such as ERA or WHIP? No, but a starter winning games is a meaningful stat in that a) it means your team won which is always a good thing, and b) the starter got the win and not the bullpen so he lasted a little while and handed the ball over while still in the lead.

So while advanced stats are nice, casting off the older stats as worthless or meaningless is being ignorant imo. Again, I’m not saying simple Ws is a better way of tracking a pitcher’s performance than FIP, etc, but simply that it certainly means a little more than shit.

I’m aware of that, but wins obviously don’t amount to as much as the average fan thinks. That’s all he was saying. Nothing new here.

That is not what he said...

he said, “It just shows that the "win" stat doesn’t mean shit” which is very different than “wins obviously don’t amount to as much as the average fan thinks”. Whether they mean more or less than they should to the “average fan” I guess depends on what the average fan thinks. But to say wins don’t mean shit, is clearly wrong on the whole, and even specifically to starting pitchers would be wrong for the reasons given above.

mean shit, is clearly wrong on the whole

I think you may be ignoring the context, which can sometimes be misleading…lol

I think he meant, wins don't mean shit for pitchers

A guy can go 5 innings, give up 12 earned runs, and earn a win. A guy can go 9 innings, and he gives up a run because the left fielder literally took a nap on the grass, and the ball rolls all the way to wall for an inside the park HR.

Win is a team-context stat. They’re very important for a team because that’s the entire objective. They don’t mean shit for pitchers.

Bronn - April 8, 2010 reply

those are two very far and infrequent extremes...

see above for disagreement. Do they mean everything like Joe Morgan leads us to believe? No. Are they “meaningless”? Again, no because as described above, teams like to win, and a starting pitcher logging that W means he had a decent enough game to get it there AND your bullpen didn’t blow it.

You’re clearly over-analyzing what he said, but whatever

Are you him?...

then how do you even know what he meant? And my point still stands, while advanced stat geeks keep searching for a single, all-encompassing algebraic formula to know all they need to know about baseball, it doesn’t exist. And while wins are a very inaccurate way to judge a pitcher and are often poor indicators of actual performance, they do mean something and are a little better than shit.

My point was that counting “wins” for starters as indicative of their performance is a hugely flawed way of doing things. Like Beard said, “Nothing new here.”

Unfortunately, a lot of baseball fans, especially the traditionalists, still believe counting wins is indicative of a pitcher’s worth or even his magical ability “to just go out there and win games”. Jay was expressing his frustration that a “Win”, a stat that goes onto a pitcher’s record, is hugely dependent on what the rest of the team does and often not on how the pitcher himself performed. I was only replying to how unsatisfactory the stat is in evaluating SPs. I used “shit” because I’m not always the most eloquent of posters on here or in real life.

Chill out with the over-analysis. I don’t know why some people here seem so determined to turn everything into a drawn-out argument over semantics. I mean, we’re basically in agreement after all.

get swoll yunel - April 8, 2010 reply

Fair enough...

some of the “over-analysis” was from people trying to jump in instead of letting you speak for yourself, but while we do seem to be thinking along the same lines of the importance of “wins” to judge a pitcher, I still think they are more than worthless numbers.

The over-analysis didn’t come from “people trying to jump in”, it came from you.

It was "analysis"...

“over” comes from you, both in you thinking it was excessive and you and Bronn effing me on so I have to repeat myself. It’s all your fault, I DID NOTHING WRONG HERE!

Are you done?

But am I wrong?...

is there at least not some value, however minimal, in a starting pitcher getting a W?

I get your freakin’ point, I just don’t know why you keep trying to ram it down my throat.

In the words of Simple Plan, “Welcome to my life”.

quoting simple plan??

I mean, Gilmore Girls I can take…but Simple Plan…

Doghnut - April 8, 2010 reply

im a dick im addicted to youuuuuuuu

bpk228480 - April 8, 2010 reply

when you just hit z straight to this comment out of context….wow…just wow

bpk228480 - April 8, 2010 reply

hahaha

Doghnut - April 8, 2010 reply

That's what she said

Good one.

And you call me argumentative???

because you are

I don’t deny that.

Enter Sandman was a sight to behold

a hooter's baby - April 8, 2010 reply

It got me pumped on Monday!

happyplayer23 - April 8, 2010 reply

Reading Giants Blog

Don’t mean to jumped the gun but the Giants fans are worried that the Braves are going to bring them back down to Earth. They consider us a good team. I wonder if everybody in baseball feel the same way. Let’s Go Bravos!

romone_braves91 - April 8, 2010 reply

What's the Giant's blog address? I vant vone

http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2010/4/7/1410014/post-game-thread-giants-sweep-the#comments

if being serious it’s located below

It’s a long ways down in the comments. They fear Heyward but not of Hudson, KK, or Lowe. Plus they feel the night game (east coast) to day game on the west will be a killer for us. That will be a problem but Hudson will be in the Bay Area tomorrow for the rest.

romone_braves91 - April 8, 2010 reply

I googled it and have been reading the past 20 mins or so.

Thanks though! “I vant vone” is paying homage to Super Troopers “Who wants a mustache ride?” Kinda funny how they mention JHey so readily

yup

I think that’s becoming a pretty popular opinion.

JFP - April 8, 2010 reply

Some of the fanposts/comments I've been seeing

Make me think that someone needs to create a thread explaining sample size. If a guy struggles for 2 games in mid-July, is he a detriment? That’s not even a slump-it’s a blip.

Try to keep your judgment calls about individual players reserved until at least the end of the first week. And even then, try to be objective rather than letting a single AB/moment color your observations.

Bronn - April 8, 2010 reply

Come on, man, we would have won 10 games by now if Glaus wasn’t holding us back

BraveSaluki - April 8, 2010 reply

haha +1

Scott Coleman - April 8, 2010 reply

His bat speed has been slow thus far

However, it’s just two games so his inability to hit a heater isn’t bothersome yet. I’ll reserve judgment until May 1st.

Charmin519 - April 8, 2010 reply

Golden Sombreros are still spectacular no matter when they happen.

soup du jour - April 8, 2010 reply

I think we're all on board with sample size.

Glaus looked terrible last night, very uncomfortable. He looked like he was guessing (wrong) on every pitch and watched 7 or 8 strikes. Hard to watch.

Sample size has nothing to do with that.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/The-Juice-Chipper-Jones-Billy-Wagner-power-Bra?urn=mlb,232875

Yes...

Yes, it does.

sddbaker - April 8, 2010 reply

I knew it was coming. I could feel it.

Go Prado! Go Chip! Go Hey! Go Wags!!

Chief Noc-A-Homa - April 8, 2010 reply

The reading is okay, but it’s the picture of Wagner and Bobby that I’m wondering about. Does it look to you like Wagner is giving the ball to Bobby after the win??

Yeah

Hopefully Wags will be able to give him say, 43 more of those, and I think it’ll be a good year.

royhobbs - April 8, 2010 reply

In < 75 appearances…

/crosses fingers

get swoll yunel - April 8, 2010 reply

Whoa

that looks very similar to my pic. Got one right after where Bobby’s trying to return it and Billy won’t take it back. Will try to post tonight.

Lizziebeth - April 9, 2010 reply

Prado miscue?

Anyone get a good look at the grounder Prado couldn’t come up with (I think in the eighth?). Looked like an error, but I couldn’t tell and never saw a replay.

It took a funny hop and just missed the glove.

Chief Noc-A-Homa - April 8, 2010 reply

thanks

I started on a rant at the game about how errors are not errors anymore, but stopped short because I was watching from 300 ft away.

He made a couple of nice plays that were good to see from a 2B, and it looks like he’s going to live up to at least average defense. I’ve missed that.

The errors = hits thing irks me though…but another time!

It was a well hit ball that looked like it hit the lip of the outfield grass, so it’s understandable that he didn’t make the play. With that being said, he didn’t do a good job of getting in front of the ball so there’s that.

I never liked the bad bounce hit...

IMO, those types of plays should be hard-luck errors, not gimme hits. It raises the expectations for level of play for both the hitter and the fielder.

BTW, none of this is meant as a knock on Prado. It was a rocket!

Watching it on TV...

I agree. He didn’t do a good job of getting in front of the ball. He tried to make a backhand play, instead of doing it out of necessity. BUT, he did make up for it with his big double in the 8th.

Just in case everyone missed it, KJ hit two HRs last night…

MVP!

NL Comeback Player of the Year? Nah, Glaus will get that one!