That was ugly folks. There's really no other way to put it. Jair Jurrjens got hit hard and struggled with his command for the 2nd straight start. Jo Jo Reyes' ERA is something in the 20's. Our offense only provided 4 hits, 3 of which came in the 6th inning once the game was over. Something needs to change. There's no reason to panic or destroy the stadium, as UltimaParadox said so beautifully, but yes, an adjustment must be made.
We all just need to believe in Bobby and his ability to get things going in the right direction. The man has 2,416 wins for a reason. He'll get us going.
As for my recap, I'll be doing the format a bit differently. All games will be broken into 3 segments, with a bonus segment at the end: the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (with The Awesome too). Unfortunately, there won't be too much in the Good section tonight, but that will change starting Wednesday. There will also be a few other notes from the game and we'll get to those in a second.
Aaaaand we're jumping...
1. Jason Heyward's plate discipline - After going through the first "slump" of his short career, Jay Hey has come back with a bang. Sure, he was 0-2 tonight with 2BBs, but his plate discipline and recognition improves by the day. In his two walks, Jason laid off tough pitches both in and out of the zone. That's what gives a player true discipline at the plate: Sure, it's important to lay off the pitches out of the zone, but if you're swinging at pitches in the zone that you won't be able to do anything with, you aren't helping yourself at the plate. Jason showed how well he can cover the plate tonight, and nearly knocked out his 4th HR of the season on a tough low-and-away pitch in the 9th.
2. Jesse Chavez - Besides giving up a run late in Saturday night's game in San Francisco, Chavez has been filthy for us. In 1.1IP tonight, Jesse struck out all 4 batters. And the best part about his season so far? Only 1BB to 6Ks. If he can keep that up in closer ballgames, he'll work his way into a 7th inning role when Moylan or EOF are resting.
3. Marteeen Prado - He went 1-for-3 with a BB, but continued his 7-game hitting streak and will finish either 1st or 2nd in baseball with a .519AVG. Thata baby Marteeeen.
The Bad:
1. Jair Jurrjens: His numbers may look "ugly", but he didn't pitch horribly. I know there's no excuse for giving up 8 runs in 3.1 innings, but the Padres were incredibly lucky getting a 2RBI bloop single from their pitcher on a check-swing and another run on a bang-bang play at home with McCann and Gwynn. I don't think we need to worry about JJ's start, but it's something to keep an eye on.
The Ugly (here we go):
1. The 4th inning: 10 runs, 7 hits, 3 walks, 1 BS error on BMac. Never again. Never, ever, ever again.
2. Jo Jo Reyes - 3.1 innings pitched, 10 hits allowed. 3.1 innings pitched, NINE, i repeat, NINE runs allowed. Two HRs allowed. Three BBs and only 2Ks. An ERA of Nate McLouth's jersey number. Good lord.
3. Nate McLouth - Another game, another 0-for-4 with 3Ks. I know it's early, but I'm thankful we basically got him for spare parts. If it wasn't for one helluva season in 2008, Nate has been an average player since then.
4. Melky Cabrera - Now with a sexy .103AVG out of the leadoff spot, Melky isn't doing anything for this team offensively. And it's a shame, because Cabrera isn't a bad player.
5. Hitting w/ RISP - We were 1-for-4 tonight, which is just a little worse than our season average of .256. This team NEEDS to get hits with runners on base. We don't have enough power to score off HRs alone.
And the Awesome:
1. Nothing - It sucks, but there really wasn't anything great to take from this game. Losing 17-2 isn't fun for anyone. This will change on Wednesday.
Stat of the Game:
On Opening Day the Braves scored 16 runs. Since then, the Braves have scored...wait for it...19 runs. That's awful.
Open Thread Comment Count: 1,810
Upcoming Games:
The Braves and Padres have tomorrow off, but will resume the series with Game 2 on Wednesday night. First pitch at 10:05EST. On the mound, it'll be Tommy Hanson vs. Clayton Richard.
0 recs | 166 comments
Cuntflaps.
sdp - April 12, 2010
Thanks for the recap.
Good to see that even with us losing by 15, we still ended up with like 1800 comments. Lovin the activity, optimism, and knowledge of everyone on this sight!
ATLforlife - April 12, 2010
ah! I forgot to put that in the recap
thanks for reminding me.
Scott Coleman - April 12, 2010
Yes full of optmism
I mean it could not be worse right
UltimaParadox - April 12, 2010
Not just about this game, but also in other threads and such. I don’t know about you, but I feel that most members here are pretty optimistic about our season and that attitude should prevail for a long time.
Well and I guess it could be worse… we could’ve gotten some dumb injuries in an already lost game, but we didn’t. It can always be worse…hahaha
ATLforlife - April 12, 2010
Yeah the game threads may not reflect it
But most people are still real excited about the team. I Dont expect all the players to be in a slump like they are now
UltimaParadox - April 12, 2010
I don’t expect all the players to be in a slump, but I’m starting to think that green are between the infield and the blue wall at the Ted is cursed, cuz we’ve kept rotating the pieces out there the last 2 or 3 years, but it seems that no matter what we do, the palookas out there don’t contribute. Last year Diaz came on and was pretty much the lone bright spot, and this year J-Hey is being J-Hey, but with a singular exception each year our outfields SUCK. We have GOT to get a solid contributor in either left or center; one Melky/McLouth in the lineup is acceptable for defensive reasons, but not both. Also Glaus seems to be counting down the days until he’s stuck in a platoon with Hinske rather than being the starter. Now don’t anyone jump on me, I know it’s only been a week, but a reclamation project like him I figure gets about the first month to prove he deserves playing time before the team starts considering other PT options for him, and it would be nice if he at least started to show some signs of life now rather than pulling out of the death dive at the last possible second.
Something needs to change, but I’m not sure what. I’m not ready to say we ought to jettison someone like Glaus/Little Mac/Milky, but there better at least be some lineup shuffling going on the next couple of games to see if we can get something to click.
And if that fails, we offer Jo-Jo for Grady Sizemore.
J-Freak - April 12, 2010
that should say green AREA*. My bad.
J-Freak - April 12, 2010
I’m just glad people kept their frustrations in the game thread. It’s nice not seeing 5 new posts about how this team sucks.
Sparhawk - April 13, 2010
+1
Game thread wasn’t even all that bad considering what was going on.
Smoltz's Beard - April 13, 2010
Agreed.
Yeah, we sometimes get bitched at in the game threads by those who think we shouldn’t be posting our frustrations at the time the game is being played and tell us we’re being too negative.
However, I think the game threads reflect the actual ebb and flow of the emotions of the game as it occurs and I like it that way. It would be the same if we were at the park watching.
We may bitch and moan about a blown play, another inning of leaving runners on base in scoring position or a crap call by the ump – but we just as wholeheartedly scream and shout with abandon whenever there is a fantastic play, a web gem “Vidro” or better yet …a hit or run scored.
I like the dynamic and find it as entertaining as the game itself.
NCChopper - April 13, 2010
I turned the game off
I can’t stomach games like that. Wednesday cannot get here soon enough. It really isn’t the pitching of this club that scares me – it’s the offense (or lack thereof). We’re supposed to be a revamped offensive club yet we look an awful lot like the Braves team of the first half of last year. JJ will be better, but we may be in trouble offensively.
WNWDOTCOM - April 12, 2010
yup Hawks were on
and they won
nathan rothschild - April 13, 2010
Hello from Alaska
Making my first post. Braves fan since ’81. Been an avid reader of talking chop for two years. Always look forward to your insight and comments. First place I go to get the nightly recap. I respect the banter here. Most other sights have a bunch of idiots on caps lock saying your team sucks.
Frozen Fan - April 12, 2010 via mobile
Welcome, baseball time in Alaska
bighop - April 12, 2010
Welcome!
Sorry its not the best game recap to start posting on haha
Zeus12888 - April 13, 2010
welcome!
and please keep a sharp lookout for soviet missles for us!
fandave - April 13, 2010
Holy crap
Another Alaskan? This truly is Braves country.
royhobbs - April 13, 2010
See what TBS did for us...
damn Time Warner.
Mr. Sanchez - April 13, 2010
Well when we type in ALL CAPS, it’s because everyone should hear/read how awesome we are.
Braves rule!
Sparhawk - April 13, 2010
So I guess it's to say
That Reyes will likely be on his way to Gwinnett when either Proctor or Kimbrel are ready. Hell I don’t even think Wickman would of given up that many runs.
SmithnCompany - April 12, 2010
*it's safe to say
SmithnCompany - April 12, 2010
It’s not like Proctor looked much better tonight
2/3 IP, 4 H, 4 ER, 1 BB, 1 K
AllSaintsDay - April 12, 2010
The good thing about losing big....
you get over it quicker than losing by one or two runs.
bravos1984 - April 12, 2010
I was thinking the same thing. I’d rather lose 17-2 than 5-4 in a 14 inning heartbreaker.
Scott Coleman - April 12, 2010 via mobile
Yeah those are the worse
UltimaParadox - April 12, 2010
+1
Smoltz's Beard - April 13, 2010
Yeah I was telling the hubby that it was much less stressful game to watch than one where we traded the lead back and forth 5 times only to lose it by a run. (been there, done that).
A blowout like this is one where you in the end just have to sit back and giggle at it – like…“what the hell was that? and I’m glad it’s over.”
NCChopper - April 13, 2010
Want to jump off a bridge...
I take everygame too seriously the first couple weeks.
Frozen Fan - April 12, 2010 via mobile
Does anyone else think that instead of platooning Diaz and Cabrera we need to platoon Cabrera and McLouth. Diaz has showed that he can play everyday but McLouth can’t hit lefties at all and doesn’t hit righties that well. Maybe only playing him against right handed pitching would help him out.
We also need to find a true leadoff hitter. We have to many dead spots in our lineup, Cabrera, Jones, Glaus, Escobar, McLouth and its forcing McCann, Prado, and Heyward to carry the offense.
jack dein - April 12, 2010
Give it time. I think it’s safe to say we will not 5 dead spots in our lineup in another few weeks. Yeah, our outfielders are off to a slow start, but all we can do is hope that it’s only a slow start.
ATLforlife - April 12, 2010
It would be nice to see something like Prado-Big Mac-J-Hey 2-4 on Wednesday. If they’re the only folks hitting, let’s quit separating them in lineup and see if they can add up a couple hits and manufacture something.
J-Freak - April 12, 2010
Remember, Diaz doesn’t play good D. Melky is easily our best defender right now.
justincredubil02 - April 13, 2010
All that momentum and excitement surrounding the Braves before the season and the
first two games of the season has now hit reality. This team looks very similar to the team we saw last year.
- We need another outfielder. Diaz and Melky aren’t gonna cut it all year. McLouth looks real bad.
- BUT it is still early and if we take the next two we’ll gain a little of that excitement back.
BravesFanScout - April 12, 2010
Similar, how?
ATLforlife - April 12, 2010
- Black holes in the outfield
- Black hole at first
- Derek Lowe inexplicably winning despite poor performances
- Hanson, JJ, KK, and now Huddy not getting picked up by the offense, despite pitching like studs.
- Recurring nagging injuries to McLouth and Chip
- Need I go on?
J-Freak - April 12, 2010
I feel that the “black hole” in outfield will be minimized shortly. J-Hey will likely end up being the most productive, but I do believe that Diaz and McLouth have the ability to hit well.
Black hole at first? I mean seriously? It’s been 6 games and Glaus is already a black hole?
I do agree that the run support has been a problem and nagging injuries also have been problems.
ATLforlife - April 12, 2010
Diaz and Melky aren't gonna cut it all year?
Based on what evidence? 6 games?
If we benched people based on 6 game slumps, there’d be no one left. Focus on the positive, please. Like how 6 game slumps usually end. And how good we’ll be once they do.
Jacob Peterson - April 13, 2010
Yes, based on 6 games. Based on facts. Based on the fact that we don't match up
with the teams that are always good in the National League.
Phillies: Victorino, Wreth, Ibanez
Cards: Holliday, Ludwick, Rasmus
Dodgers: Kemp, Ramirez, Ethier
Our outfield doesn’t even matchup with the crappy Mets and they have terrible Frency:
Mets: Bay, Beltran (when he returns), Frenchy
We can’t go all year long relying on Diaz and Cabrera. If you don’t see that then you are blind. McLouth has not put up good numbers since 2008. We need a leadoff hitter. Melky, McLouth, nor Diaz are leadoff hitters.
BravesFanScout - April 13, 2010
Outfields might not match up, but I think that the bullpen and rotation will make up for it.
Look, it’s been 7 games. It is way too early to make any sweeping generalizations about our OF’s. If these slumps were month long, maybe then, but I just don’t think that 7 games is enough to project that a player will fail the whole season.
ATLforlife - April 13, 2010
So based on Melky and Diaz previous stats you think they will be
productive enough to help us be a legit contender? I seriously hope they are, but I just think we need a leadoff hitter. If McLouth isn’t leading off then we don’t have a real threat on the bases. But I also believe McLouth isn’t a leadoff hitter. He doesn’t show much plate discipline and he is more concerned with hitting for power than hitting for average. Melky has a career .330 on base percentage and a career .268 hitter. Those aren’t to impressive for a leadoff hitter. Matt Diaz has a better average and OBP but his tendency to swing it bad pitches and not being a serious threat on the bases is also a problem.
I’m just seeing things that could become a consistent problem throughout the year. I HOPE it is not, but through the first 7 games and based on what i know from the past, that is what i conclude.
BravesFanScout - April 13, 2010
So give us a REALISTIC scenario of what it will take for the Braves to get a true leadoff hitter?? It’s easy to say, we need a leadoff hitter, we need a power hitter, etc. But go out and find us one then that you feel is reasonable enough for it to happen.
Heck, I think we need 5 starters who can strike out 20 a game and not walk anybody. Sounds good, but it ain’t happening.
dunnytwogloves - April 13, 2010
Offer Cleveland Jo-Jo for Sizemore. They’ll be all over that.
J-Freak - April 13, 2010
RAWR!
justincredubil02 - April 13, 2010
It's wonderful
that we get to sit on this “whoopin” through an off day tomorrow. Maybe the Braves will sit and think about how pitiful they looked getting beat 17-2 by the PADRES. Maybe it will light a fire under their ass and get some offense going. This is Bobby’s last season. Don’t embarass him like that again, please.
FalconUdean - April 12, 2010
meh…something tells me they’ll be able to get over it
Bravely going forward - April 12, 2010
The good news is
that this only counts for one loss.
It’s gonna screw (skew) up our pythagorean winning % though… the horror!
get swoll yunel - April 12, 2010
Exactly, 17-2 or 3-2, it won’t matter come September.
bbxxj - April 12, 2010
Just evens out the 16-5 blowout from opening day
Jacob Peterson - April 13, 2010
Can't believe how many guys are slumping
It can’t last. Pitching will hold up. I’m confident of that. Just sucks coming out of the gate like this. While the phils first 100 games are against the mats
Frozen Fan - April 12, 2010 via mobile
Perspective:
The Braves are 3-4. There are 155 games left. 17 of them are against the Nats, and another bunch are against the ’stros and other crappy teams.
Jacob Peterson - April 13, 2010
Scratch off one those against the (supposedly crappy) Padres. That didn’t work out so well.
J-Freak - April 13, 2010
The Pads played us hard last year, too. Enough that we should seriously fear Mat Latos on Thursday…
Weldon - April 13, 2010
* meant nats... But mats fits
Frozen Fan - April 12, 2010 via mobile
I know you're new...
Use the little “+reply” button in your comment box next time. It just helps keep the thread much more organized
Scott Coleman - April 12, 2010 via mobile
Diaz needs to play and heyward needs to move up in the batting order. Replace glaus with hinske too. Lineup needs to be tweak til it just right.
ccoolguy2003 - April 12, 2010
I know this has been said over an over...
But if a change needs to be done it needs to be a shake up of the lineup. I am not hating on Cabrera or McLouth at all, as I think they are both very solid players and bring a great deal of defensive value (McLouth looks alot better on healthy legs) but we need to bunch up the guys who are hitting. Something like this would work right now.
1. Prado 2B
2. Heyward RF
3. Chipper 3B
4. Glaus 1B
5. McCann C
6. Escobar SS
7. McLouth/Diaz/Cabrera LF/RF
8. McLouth/Diaz/Cabrera LF/RF
That would put the guys who are getting on base the most consistantly in front of the guys who should be able to drive them in the most consistantly. The last two spots would allow Bobby to rotate guys in based on machups and who is hot and allowing him to keep the top and middle set from game to game.
bbxxj - April 12, 2010
I agree. I’d like to see a lineup like that on Wednesday.
Scott Coleman - April 12, 2010 via mobile
I do like this lineup, at least while Prado’s got the hottest bat.
ATLforlife - April 12, 2010
I like the idea Prado leading off for the time being
Frozen Fan - April 12, 2010 via mobile
RISP
That RISP average was inflated by the 8-18 that we hit on Opening Day. Before this game, I saw that we had been 8-48 since then.
dunnytwogloves - April 12, 2010
Unsustainable
that is the word of the day. All of these slumps—the RISP numbers, the Glaus, Cabrera, McLouth, and Escobar numbers, all of them—are unsustainable. Thus, things will get better. Maybe not better enough for the team to make the playoffs, but better for sure. Much better.
Actually, one number might just be sustainable—Jo-Jo’s ERA. (kidding)
Jacob Peterson - April 13, 2010
Why kid?
I took you for serious. I still think we should offer up Jo-Jo for Sizemore if the outfield doesn’t shape up. I thinks that’s a deal that could work for both sides.
J-Freak - April 13, 2010
So you don't agree with the following 2 comments from the atlantabraves.com recap?
10-4 - April 13, 2010
What about all those who complain about Bobby overworking the bullpen???
DawgB - April 13, 2010
Hey! Frenchy's doing pretty good, that's a happy thought, sorry he isn't playing for us anymore.
jimmontg - April 13, 2010
Will it lasst into May?...
he’s done this before.
Mr. Sanchez - April 13, 2010
Probably not.
Just like some of the early season slumps we are seeing.
DawgB - April 13, 2010
Just trying to be funny, we don't have anthing else to laugh at.
jimmontg - April 13, 2010
Wish I could figure out how to post my vid of Odarp and his ritual handshakes – might get everybody’s mind off things for a sec or two.
Lizziebeth - April 13, 2010
good lord…
Smoltz's Beard - April 13, 2010
Ouch.
My wife dragged me out for the evening and I just got in, only to read this nightmarish recap. Earlier, I was annoyed about missing the game. Now, I’m kinda glad I missed it. I think watching that would’ve made me sad, angry or both.
Things have got to get better soon…
EricGreggWasPaidOff - April 13, 2010
How in the world
does Jo Jo have a spot on this team? he must have dirty pictures of Bobby’s wife. (gross)
I’m guessing as soon as Proctor is ready or Dunn proves himself, Jo Jo will be gone. We have Meds for long relief, why is he even up here?
Fatvirus - April 13, 2010
I think the plan was to give Jo-Jo 1 more chance to prove himself, this time in the pen. If it worked, great. If not, well Proctor will be ready soon. Kimbrel is fine-tuning it and could be ready by June. I believe Medlen pitched a few innings on Sunday, thus was not available yesterday. Or maybe Bobby just decided that it was already too late and just used Jo-Jo to eat some innings
DawgB - April 13, 2010
I thought the Padres were supposed to have all the holes in their line-up...
I’m so sick of Jojo Reyes it’s not even funny.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - April 13, 2010
Please !! Please !! Please !!
Ditch Jo Jo Reyes NOW !!!! He is the WORST Damn putcher we have when real baseball is played !! SEnd him to KC for a bucket of old balls,, they love our REJECTS over there.
ggotch - April 13, 2010
Words in CAPS are FOR emphasis.
justincredubil02 - April 13, 2010
I'd like to weigh in with my thoughts on this game:
Mama said there’d be days like these.
10-4 - April 13, 2010
Poor Capt. Sisko…..
bravos1984 - April 13, 2010
I loved his voice. But IMO, no one can compare to the combo of Picard’s voice and Captainism.
(yeah, I made up that word just for me)
NCChopper - April 13, 2010
How's this for voice?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKGHuN5NoPo&feature=related
bravos1984 - April 13, 2010
Gracias kind sir. Love it.
Here are my 2 favorite photos of Patrick Stewart:
a. Photo 1
b. Photo 2
NCChopper - April 13, 2010
haha. weak.
I always loved it when he goes, “The line must be drawn hyah!!”
Speaking of that, the line must be drawn hyah!
Chief Noc-A-Homa - April 13, 2010
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra…..
bravos1984 - April 13, 2010
Photo one can’t be viewed…number two looks like he focused too much legs and not enough upper body.
bravos1984 - April 13, 2010
Yeah, the chest is kinda lacking.
However, photo 1 opens for me. Hmmmm
NCChopper - April 13, 2010
Says i am forbidden..
bravos1984 - April 13, 2010
Photo 1 option 2
NCChopper - April 13, 2010
Mr. Stewart with the GUNS!!!
bravos1984 - April 13, 2010
not only was Jurrjens' control terrible
but his stuff wasn’t even that good. His changeup was up and all over the place. His fastball was around 88 with not much movement untill he got the bases loaded and then he started throwing 93-94 but missing.
Could be the worst start I’ve ever seen from JJ.
nathan rothschild - April 13, 2010
this is worse than last year
We never lost by this much last year. What the Hell is going on?
not2wired - April 13, 2010
About 8-0 I turned the channel to DWTS
jimmontg - April 13, 2010
Ugh
I’d rather watch a test pattern than see that bullshit again.
J-Freak - April 13, 2010
I’m not saying anyone is to blame specifically, but it’s always surprising to me that TP keeps his job year after year. The way we’re hitiing right now, or not hitting right now, it’s just really sad.
McLouth used to be a threat, imo…….no more.
Troy G was tearing it up in ST……….no more.
Melky looked decent during ST……….no more.
Yunel is hitting into nothing but double plays.
Too early to sound any alarms, but we need to win 3 or 4 in a row, starting Now.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - April 13, 2010
Hey! Somebody who doesn't like T. Pendleton! I'm not alone, now if I can find somebody who doesn't like B. Cox I'll have somebody to share my seats with.
jimmontg - April 13, 2010
So reverse all those scenarios…if they all happened, would TP be the best hitting coach in the league?? It’s been 7 games…kind of early to make that kind of judgment. Comparing the MLB season to an NFL season in regards to schedule length (basically 10 baseball games equals 1 football game). Right now we aren’t even through the 3rd quarter of the FIRST game. And we’re calling for all kinds of changes.
dunnytwogloves - April 13, 2010
Well, that’s the thing. The Braves always seem to be on the cusp, but then somebody folds at the plate, like Kelly, or Frenchy….and they seem to rebound elsewhere.
And it’s common knowledge that alot of our guys go to other hitting coaches. My only thought is, “Well, I guess I’m glad he keeps his job,” because in sports you always have to place blame somewhere.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - April 13, 2010
But don't get me wrong...
this offense is frustrating to watch right now. There are only 3 guys I can count on when they come up to the plate at this point: Prado, McCann and Heyward. I think one thing the club is lacking right now is situational hitting. Against the Giants in the first game of the series, 7th inning (I believe). First two Giants hitters get on (single and a double), then the next two batters hit groundballs to 2nd base for outs, but scoring a run on each play. It seems to me that our batters try to hit the 3 run homer in that situation, and then we end up with nothing.
dunnytwogloves - April 13, 2010
Haha, nice football comparison. Really puts it into perspective.
Smoltz's Beard - April 13, 2010
I'm not trying to defend Jo-Jo...
as his pitching certainly left a lot to be desired. However, let’s give it a little time before we completely crucify him here…after all, the Fathers did chase Jurrjens out of the game after less than four innings. Sometimes, you just have games like this where nothing you can do is going to work.
Regardless of how you feel about Jo-Jo’s performance, it shows a lot about his character that he was okay being the sacrificial lamb yesterday. In a game like yesterday’s, it would’ve been very easy to go through an entire bullpen. As it stands, we used only three pitchers. Say what you want about Jo-Jo, but he took one for the team yesterday.
hailtogeorgia - April 13, 2010
He’s been given many, many chances by Bobby, and 9 out of 10 times, he fails.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - April 13, 2010
My point was much less about the chances,
and much more about the fact that he saved us from having to use a plethora of relievers in a game that was over by the fourth inning. On a night where Jurrjens was destroyed, it’s hard to expect Reyes to do much better. He came into an awful situation and performed at about the same rate as our starter. I’m not for running Jo-Jo out to pitch the seventh during a close game, but as a reliever, I’m just for giving it a few more outings to see how he would fare in other situations (like being up by eight instead of down).
hailtogeorgia - April 13, 2010
How do you know he isn’t pissed about it?
Skyagusta - April 14, 2010
I cannot believe we did so bad last night.
I turned the channel back after DWTS and couldn’t believe my eyes. I think buying season tix may have been a bad idea. Nah!, even losing at a day at the ballpark is almost as good as a day fishing and catchin’ nothing, it’s still fishing and it’s still baseball. Even! if your team ain’t winnin’.
jimmontg - April 13, 2010
+1
Skyagusta - April 14, 2010
Now I know how the Cubs felt after that first off day: Like complete shit.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - April 13, 2010
You know what spoils a rout?
By taking the next two games. Sure they might have blown us out, but in the end, it’s much more painful for them if we take the rest of the series. Suddenly, nobody cares about one win when followed by two losses.
Yesterday was an aberration. It probably won’t happen again this season, and feasibly might not occur again in the next two years. But every now and then, lopsided games like this happen, to just about everyone. The Rangers hang 30 on the O’s. Then one day last year, the O’s hang 13 on the Braves. This year, the Braves hang 16 on the Cubs, but then the Padres hang 17 on us. It happens. Some time this year, some team might hang 14 on the Padres, and the Yankees will hang 18 on the Indians.
Yes, it sucked, but it does happen from time to time, and yesterday was just our time. But better for these demoralizing losses to happen early, rather than later in the season.
royhobbs - April 13, 2010
Also, I wouldn’t read too much into us only scoring 2 runs. Things might have been a lot different in a closer game. Bobby took out Chipper and B-Mac after 6 innings. I imagine it’s difficult to put forth a lot of effort when down by that many runs. Probably just chalk it up to being one of those games and save it for the next one.
DawgB - April 13, 2010
JoJo deserves a pat on the back, at the very least, for going out there and taking it on the chin to save the rest of the arms.
Melky definitely needs to removed from the leadoff spot, and pronto.
Smoltz's Beard - April 13, 2010
I could see putting Martin at leadoff, but, then who would hit 2nd?? I would use McLouth in the 2-hole. He would be good at advancing the runner. I would not move Heyward there just yet, as he has too much RBI potential. However, if he develops into a legitamate high OBP guy, why not? He can steal some bases and has some popin his bat, al la Rickey Henderson.
DawgB - April 13, 2010
For #2 it could be McLouth, Melky, Diaz…anybody right now. I think Melky has the potential to be a legit leadoff hitter, but after a game like last night you’ve got to try some new things, you know?
Smoltz's Beard - April 13, 2010
I would keep Diaz in the 8th spot for now, to give some protection to Heyward. Melky would probably do well in ther 2-hole, also.
I am not so concerned about last night, in and of itself. I am more concerned with the lack of run production overall, through the first week.
DawgB - April 13, 2010
Heyward scoffs at this “protection” you speak of.
Smoltz's Beard - April 13, 2010
Do you mean he needs no protection or that he has none?
DawgB - April 13, 2010
I was going for the former, but well played
Smoltz's Beard - April 13, 2010
Exactly.
It takes a lot to go out and get drilled for the majority of the game, knowing you’re only going to be thrown to the wolves for allowing runs. Jo-Jo gained a lot of respect in my book yesterday (not that it means anything).
hailtogeorgia - April 13, 2010
That, too.
It was just one of those days. Probably anyone we put out there would have been lighted up.
DawgB - April 13, 2010
Yup, agree completely.
Smoltz's Beard - April 13, 2010
I don't agree, a superior reliever would not have given up a shit pot more runs. For no other reason than pride.
jimmontg - April 13, 2010
You’re missing the point.
Smoltz's Beard - April 13, 2010
I'm sorry,but what exactly is the point?
If our reliever had the skill I don’t see that he would have allowed anymore(many) runs.
jimmontg - April 13, 2010
Dawg said it well below. JoJo came in there during a blowout, and yeah he sucked it up even further, but he kept going out there and gave us innings so that the rest of our pen is available for these next two games. There’s something to be said for that.
Smoltz's Beard - April 13, 2010
The point is
By the time Jo-Jo got into the game, the white flag was already raised. It was his job to go into a glory-less situation and simply do his best to carry the losing effort to its miserable end. For a guy who’s just trying to cement his place on a major league roster, and his first task of the season is to go into a game that is almost twice the margin of a typical mop-up duty is definitely not desirable, but he did it anyway, because that was his job.
At 8-0, with the team playing like shit, it was irrelevant that Jo-Jo gave up nine runs of his own – his job was to put the game out of its misery, and after delivering 3.1IP and 94 pitches, he did an okay job of it. Put it this way, would you rather have seen Bobby burn yet another appearance out of Medlen, Moylan and Saito? Sure, today’s a rest day, but the sheer number of all those appearances begin to weigh down those arms come August and September.
royhobbs - April 13, 2010
Spot on, here.
People are getting way too bogged down in the runs Jo-Jo allowed, when they should be looking at what he enabled the team to do. Besides, even if he had come in and pitch a shut out the rest of the game, it still wouldn’t have made any difference. We put up two runs.
When you’re down 8-0, you’re simply trying to stop the bleeding. Granted, the bleeding continued in terms of runs allowed, but the bullpen was spared.
hailtogeorgia - April 13, 2010
Runs allowed, walks allowed, hard hits...
I understand the circumstances of Jojo entering, but he was still pretty bad.
Mr. Sanchez - April 13, 2010
How does his line compare with Jair's?
hailtogeorgia - April 13, 2010
Jair doesn't have a history of doing that
while Jojo has repeatedly in the past, especially allowing too many walks.
Mr. Sanchez - April 13, 2010
I'm not saying there's no one better than Jo-Jo...
I just think it would be only prudent to give him more than one outing (in an awful situation with a strike zone that is completely opposite of what would be optimal for him) as a reliever before deciding that he’s done and should be gone.
hailtogeorgia - April 13, 2010
Agreed
Mr. Sanchez - April 13, 2010
It's funny
In typical Jo-Jo fashion, he tried to be too cute on the corners at first, and was obviously not getting the call (tall narrow strike zone yesterday), but you can almost kind of see a point in the game where Jo-Jo just thought “Eff it,” and just started pounding the strike zone. Granted, this led to a lot of hits and homers, but it was curious to see him aggressively attacking batters for a change.
royhobbs - April 13, 2010
But after Jojo's outing...
the question becomes how much longer does he stay. Gearrin, Kimbrel, maybe even Proctor or Dunn would all be options, and look like they could probably provide more than just the give up and let them beat on him guy that Jojo appears to be.
Mr. Sanchez - April 13, 2010
Jo-Jo has had one chance this year...
and it was in an awful position. The Padres were on fire when he came in the game and had all the momentum in their favor. I’m not pushing for Jo-Jo to start anytime soon, but if Leo Mazzone, Roger McDowell, and Bobby all think Jo-Jo has a future as a reliever, then I’m inclined to wait a few more outings before writing him off as dead.
hailtogeorgia - April 13, 2010
Is Mazzone still around?
Mr. Sanchez - April 13, 2010
No, he works for 680 The Fan
doing sports talk radio in the mornings. However, he still talks to Bobby a lot (close to a daily basis, by the way he makes it out) and he seems to think that Jo-Jo has a future as a reliever. The point he has made the most is that as a reliever, Jo-Jo doesn’t have time to mentally psych himself out in between starts the way he used to. He has to just go in and pitch on short notice. Some guys can’t handle this, but Leo thinks it will be pretty helpful for Jo-Jo.
On another note, how someone as good as Mazzone is doing sports talk radio and hasn’t been picked up by an organization somewhere is beyond me.
hailtogeorgia - April 13, 2010
I would imagine
Once a little bit more time passes, and there’s a better understanding of what the pitchers there might feasibly offer up to Atlanta. I mean, Venters had a solid outing last night, and he’s pretty much what Jo-Jo Reyes is on the Braves roster right now – a lefty with expectations to go a few innings, but I don’t see him supplanting Jo-Jo until he’s seen as truly ready.
But I’m guessing that the org. will have to do some close examination at the pitchers, and the subsequent MiLB domino effect it will have on the others before making pulling the plug on Jo-Jo, since he’s out of options (IIRC).
royhobbs - April 13, 2010
I thought the only one we had out of options was...
Melky?
And I wonder if/when Jojo goes down, is it as a starter or reliever? I guess it depends on if he’s replaced by Venters, or a reliever like Proctor/Gearrin/Kimbrel/Dunn.
Mr. Sanchez - April 13, 2010
Now I feel bad about crucifying the man on the Yahoo recap.
TonyAlmeyda - April 13, 2010
A superior starter gave up a bunch, now, didn’t he? Why waste one of the better arms in the pen? One of the biggest complaints I have read here is that Bobby over works his releivers. Jo-Jo was the only one in the pen to not have pitched yet during the regular season. Also, he did fare pretty well during the spring. So, giving him the ball made a lot of sense. Once it was apparent that it was open season, why pull him and waste another pitcher. Let him eat some innings. Anyhow, isn’t he one of our long relievers?
DawgB - April 13, 2010
Got It
jimmontg - April 13, 2010
In honor of last night's epic failure...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHdZFppSZss
bravos1984 - April 13, 2010
I’m honestly seeing this as a good thing. It’s early in the season, and hopefully the Braves will start addressing the “weak” spots in the lineup and make the necessary changes.
I don’t have the answers, and the lineup looks pretty good on paper. I think some hitters have gone away from patience that helped us play really well in Spring Training, which is why strikeouts have soared for this team. Heyward is getting his patient approach back and I’m sure other players will follow.
It certainly sucks when you have a lot of players that are struggling offensively right now, but it won’t last.
Sparhawk - April 13, 2010
The Good:
So, plate discipline on an 0-for by Heyward is a good thing, but for Melky it is bad?
Jason is seeing 4.39 pitches per PA and Melky is seeing 4.36. I get that Jason is hitting the ball too, but he has 10 Ks to Melky’s 4…that’s right – Melky only has 4 Ks. Melky also has 4 BBs – the same number as Jason. So, Melky has a 1:1 K:BB and Jason has a 2.5 BB:K.
Melky also has a .120 BABIP…let me say that again – a .120 BABIP!!!
Compare that to Heyward’s .308 and you can easily see that Melky is having just as good, actually better, ABs than Heyward, just with different results. The key to this is that all of this data is only after 7 games.
Heyward has 9 ground balls, 5 fly balls and 2 line drives. Melky has 15 GBs, 7 FBs and 3 LDs.
When you look at all of this data together, one can only deduce that Melky is just hitting the ball at people. That will change. Let’s just be patient.
justincredubil02 - April 13, 2010
damn good information, dude.
Fatvirus - April 13, 2010
Gracias.
justincredubil02 - April 13, 2010
NO! OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!! lol
bravos1984 - April 13, 2010
Hey, how did you get 3 exclamation marks to post? I haven’t been able to do that for a week or so now!
justincredubil02 - April 13, 2010
Test
RAWR!!!!
justincredubil02 - April 13, 2010
SUCCESS!!!!!!1
justincredubil02 - April 13, 2010
Score another bullet for the OPR. Hehe.
bravos1984 - April 13, 2010
I noticed his BABIP yesterday too but the only thing that concerns me is that his LD% is at 9%, when last year it was a career high 20%.
Smoltz's Beard - April 13, 2010
Yeah but..
Another thing about Melky, is that he is seeing a whole lot of pitchers for the first time. A new league and a different style of play for a new club. Not to mention the pressure of being thrust into the lead off role. I don’t worry about Melky near as much as I worry about Nate. He just seems totally lost out there. I wish Jermaine Dye was a quality CF. LOL
I Saw Buzz Beaned - April 13, 2010
Although there really isn't much data to be conclusive about.
25ish PAs isn’t really anything to draw a conclusion on, .120 BABIP or not. This early in the season you gotta rely on your eyes, which is why I think most are calling for Glaus’, Melky’s, and McLouth’s heads (rightly or wrongly). Glaus and McLouth just look out of sorts and Melky hasn’t been hitting the ball hard. I’m not saying that this trend will continue, but that’s the justification.
Personally, I usually give players a few weeks before I start questioning their ability to play in the lineup. So I agree; lets just be patient.
soup du jour - April 13, 2010
Yeah, if we find ourselves going into June with these same concerns – they just might be legitimate.
NCChopper - April 13, 2010
Great job on the recap.
I’m glad we have a day to help find and remove the imposters on the field wearing our Braves unis.
And, glad we had THIS kind of game in April rather than Sept.
Looking forward to Wednesday night.
NCChopper - April 13, 2010
I’m sure Bobby’s pissed. I was hoping all those runs from ST would carry over. The well is looking pretty dry, right now.
and I’m glad Hanson is throwing Wednesday.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - April 13, 2010
Thanks!
Scott Coleman - April 13, 2010 via mobile
So, we put last night behind us and go get ‘em tomorrow night. The Braves had a crappy game and got the crap beat out of them. It happens. Tomorrow’s going to be better. It can’t be much worse…
John Holton - April 13, 2010
Success isn’t determined by how few times you fall down. It is determined by how many times you get back up.
…or something like that.
justincredubil02 - April 13, 2010
I feel inspired.
Smoltz's Beard - April 13, 2010
Just say “YES!”
justincredubil02 - April 13, 2010
Then by golly Raul is some sort of epic champion.
soup du jour - April 13, 2010
classic.
justincredubil02 - April 13, 2010
am i the only one
upset at how JoJo was used? He was warmed up quickly like a regular reliever then thrown out there for 80+ pitches.
drumzalicious - April 13, 2010
You afraid he’s going to throw out his arm and not be available in the future???
dunnytwogloves - April 13, 2010
Maybe that was the idea...
EricGreggWasPaidOff - April 14, 2010
It’s time for Bobby to insert Heyward into all 9 spots in the batting order and when he gets on base, we’ll use ghost runners.
If we’re facing a lefty, Diaz can take up 3 or 4 of the 9 available spots.
;)
UMDBHIK - April 13, 2010
You must Login with your SB Nation account and be a member of Talking Chop to post a comment.