Talking Chop

Um, yeah, we've got some good prospects who've already been in the system...

with the lack of reports on Salcedo, unlike say Vizcaino, it’s not an easy thing to judge. And while they say he starts at A ball now, it’d be easy to see him stay in extended spring (especially if he has trouble obtaining a visa) and then go to Danville before moving up as his play shows.

And of those 8 or worse—
Zeke Spruill has been pretty good, and should only get better as he matures mentally and physically.
Christian Bethancourt is a promising young C who has produced in our system and is younger than Salcedo.
Heyward, Freeman are obvious.
Teheran, Vizcaino, and Delgado as well considering how they’ve produced already.
Minor has already been to Arizona and done well and could rise fast through the system this year.
Cody Johnson has shown big time power and steadily advanced up the system.
Craig Kimbrel has drawn comparisons to Billy Wagner, and is near ready for the bigs.

To be honest, it’s hard to say where Salcedo ranks as a complete unknown, where there are so many known commodities already in place, most of whom are pretty well regarded prospects who could easily be impact players in Atlanta.

on the other hand

you’ve got major league scouts comparing him to Hanley and A-rod.

I'm sure the majority would laugh at that comp.

wow

you seem to know a lot about him!

As much as anyone, which is exactly the point.

All we have on him is a few comments by the Braves front office, even guys like Goldstien and Sickels admit they’ve never seen him. He hasn’t played in anything other than showcases in three years, so we really don’t have enough info to make any sort of judgement, much less proclaim him the next A-rod.

The RedSox tried to sign him to a decent sized contract a couple of years ago, but backed out due to his age concerns. Don’t pretend like this kid is a total mystery. There is info out there on him. You just have to look for it.

Theres scouting reports on him, and we don't have access to 99.9% of them at this point.

We as fans start to get good scouting reports on these guys when they play in the US, or at least the DSL. Right now all we hear is reports about their tools. The kid is a total mystery to us, but by the size of his bonus we can guess about his possible ceiling. Those guys end up being flops as often as not, as IFA’s are probably the riskiest of all prospects due to the age and competition level concerns.

How many big-bonus IFAs have been flops vs successes? I am interested in seeing if it happens as often as not.

Here's the last 2 years top dollar guys.

2008, 2009 (about half way down). None of those guys are exactly top prospect material now. It’s just so hard to say with all these guys, I’m sure most fans heard these signings and assumed they’d be can’t miss guys.

The 2009 list is pre-Sano and Salcedo

hmmm….interesting. What about going back a couple of years and seeing how the guys actually panned out?

I think the 08 list may still be a little too raw to evaluate just yet.

Just to clarify: I am not trying to argue this one at all. I am genuinely interested.

Pre-2007 alot of the bonuses weren't released, so it's tough to get accurate info.

Most teams didn’t have any sort of academy there yet either, so the bonuses across the board tended to be much smaller. The 2007 list wasn’t really worth posting, because 6 of the top 12 have either had age issues or been charged with murder. These kids are all projection, so teams that just sign a shitload of them seem to get the most hits. I definately think Salcedo was a very good gamble considering that the Braves don’t have any high picks, but I just think it’s way too early to put him ahead of guys like Delgado or Minor.

alligatorimpersonator - February 25, 2010 reply

Yes

bravestatoo - February 27, 2010 reply

I don't think anyone's proclaimed him the next A-rod.

All it said is that some scouts, who I’m guessing have seen him play, have compared him to A-rod. To me, that means he has the talent level that A-rod had when A-rod was 18.

And I'm sure there's scouts that don't think he's legit as well.

It’s so hard to say with these kids. Several years ago Fransico Pena and Jesus Montero were both considered can’t miss catching prospects. One looks very good right now and the other looks like minor league filler. It’s just hard to say until these kids play with wood bats against good competition (with actual offspeed pitches) that it’s hard to see him legitimately ranked in front of guys like Mike Minor, who will almost certainly reach the majors in some capacity. If the Braves system was barren I could see this discussion, but there is easily enough talent there that he really shouldn’t push anyone down the list yet.

Your point about IFAs is kind of pointless. It’s the exact same thing with prospects in the US. That is kind of the whole thing about prospects: for every one that makes it, there’s one that doesn’t.

acie4mvp - February 25, 2010 reply

But US prospects are generally safer than IFA's.

We at least have a large sample of competitive data to look at against superior competition. For all the high selection high school kids out there, the fialure rate is far less than the costly IFA’s. There are still plenty of failures, but the risk is far less.

My guess would be that if you look at it terms of dollars given the amount of risk is the same. A guy getting a million dollars as a US draft pick probably has just as good a chance of flaming out as a guy getting a million as an international free agent. I don’t have numbers to back this up, but I’m assuming nobody has numbers to prove it wrong, so really we’re just all working on speculation.

You're confusing...

possibly projects to be like with actually is/will become.

alligatorimpersonator - February 25, 2010 reply

I ranked him 9th and it has more to do with the outstanding depth of our current top 10 than it does with my being scared to rank someone who hasn’t played over here yet.

Heyward,Freeman, and Kimbrel are highly regarded and well advanced in the system. Teheran, Vizcaino, Delgado, and Bethancourt all have very high ceilings and have performed. I’ve got Minor ahead of him too because I believe he’s very polished and will move quick although his sample size is very small so far. So I don’t think ranking him 8th or worse says anything negative about Salcedo, but speaks more towards the strength of the system.

ajones2522 - February 25, 2010 reply

Voted 10

Only because there were no options beyond that. Exactly as you stated in the post, there is little to no current information on this kid. All we have is that the Braves consider him the equivalent of a high draft pick. Goldstein and some others have weighed on on where he should be placed, but we do not have the details on why they think that. Have they seen him play recently? I’m not saying he is not good, in fact I’m very excited to have him in the fold, just that I cannot justify a top 10 ranking without something to base it off of.

scstrato - February 25, 2010 reply

I’ll give you $1.6 million reasons to rank him higher. They don’t throw that kind of money at just anyone.

gondeee - February 25, 2010 reply

What he said.

Ok, I see your point

But you know as well as I do that signing bonus’ have little to do with a prospects ranking. I would also counter argue that some second round draft picks get that high of a signing bonus and I don’t know many of them who would qualify as a top 5 prospect in our system (top 10 maybe).

Still, back to your point, if I could amend my vote and basing it solely on signing bonus I guess I would rank him somewhere in the 7 to 9 range. Maybe after Delgado and just before Minor.

scstrato - February 25, 2010 reply

As stingy as the Braves can be on signing bonuses, breaking their record for highest international bonus by $700,000 is quite a statement of this kid’s ability. (I believe that Teheran was the next highest at $900,000, but someone can call me on that.)

gondeee - February 25, 2010 reply

Oh, and I ranked him 6th, behind Minor.

gondeee - February 25, 2010 reply

Well, I’m ashamed to admit I didn’t know they exceeded their record payout by $700K. Maybe i’m being a bit over-anti-homer by not wanting to rank him too high. I do have faith that our scouts know what they’re doing, so this type of commitment has to say something.

For the record, I wasn’t trying to say this kid isn’t worthy of a top 10 ranking. Hell, for all I know he could very well be the 2nd or 3rd best prospect in our system. The only point I wanted to make was whether it was fair to rank him based on the little evidence/information we do have. Granted you make a compelling case!

scstrato - February 26, 2010 reply

Didn't Minr get over 2?

Minor

Yep

$2.42 mil

scstrato - February 25, 2010 reply

Which is roughly what Salcedo was in line for originally.

acie4mvp - February 25, 2010 reply

Having not played a game yet----

1. Heyward
2.Teheran
3.Minor
4.Vizcaino
5.Bethancourt
6.Delgado
7.Freeman
8.Kimbrel
9.Salcedo

homerlanding - February 25, 2010 reply

Freeman at 7

Is a problem for me.

How in the world is Freeman 7th?

Scott Coleman - February 25, 2010 reply

I'm with you.

I’ve never been sold on Freeman, seen him play, and he just doesnt strike me as a big time first baseman, i see a lot of Casey Kotchman in him.

BravesRaleigh - February 25, 2010 reply

agreed

.300 18 HR for a 1B doesn’t excite me at all.

Dude, he was 18 years old when hit 18 HRs in A-ball. I seriously think you’re underestimating his future power potential.

from what I've read

He has 20 HR (max) potential. Maybe my source (I think ESPN) is mistaken.

I think that's a crock of crap

Chipper Jones never hit 18 HRs in a minor league season, nor did Brian McCann. Chase Utley did, at age 24. He had one of the better seasons in recent memory from a Braves minor league hitter, and he did that at age 18. Considering the number of pitcher friendly ballparks in our system, I think he’s being criminally underrated in some circles.

I’ll go ahead an use Adam LaRoche as a comp, and that’s a basement projection. He should at least produce at that level, and he’s much, much bigger than Adam. He’s going to produce some power from that frame. He may not hit 30 every year, but I think he’ll be in the neighborhood.

None of those guys are really good comps.

Utley and McCann both play premium defensive positions, where power outputs are far less important. Jones plays a slighty more comparable position, but his numbers wouldn’t look nearly as good if he’d been nothing but a 1st baseman for the course of his career.

I wasn't throwing them out as comps

I just came up with a couple of recent Braves’ top prospects who are good power hitters that didn’t match Freeman’s power output in 2008. It’s tough to actually find a good comp for his 2008 season because he was in A-ball and playing at a high level at age 18-something that doesn’t happen often.

I honestly don’t know why I threw out Utley, except that he was a guy I knew was late arriving in Majors but is one of the best hitters in the national league-partly due to his power.

Adam LaRoche is the guy I would use as a comp right now, and I think it’s a fair one. He should at least reach that level.

I'd certainly think so

There seems to be an awful lot of good looking 1st base prospects out there now though, which is really odd. Maybe teams are just putting more emphasis on defense and putting more guys at 1st, but it seems that almost every team has at least 1 legitimate 1st base prospect in their system now who seems like they should be using LaRoche as a floor.

You ought to read this...

Here. Braves hiting prospects are probably being undervalued in general, while their pitching prospects are probably slighty overvalued.

I think Freeman will be a little better than Kotchman, I would say more of an Adam LaRoche type. I think all 4 pitchers that I put ahead of him have #1 or #2 potential and I think Bethancourt will be an All-Star catcher someday. I don’t think FF has AS potential, I do think he will be a very productive player.

homerlanding - February 25, 2010 reply

Minor's ceiling

is described as being a #3. No one thinks he’s an ace, just a sure thing to be a #4-5 starter in the league.

Freeman is just as much a sure-thing at this point as Minor, but he’s 2 years younger with more upside. I can’t see putting him behind Minor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dwtspB3H_A

If both players hit their “ceiling” and nothing else Freeman will do better, but I have seen both play (Minor a lot in college) and I think he is being underestimated. I don’t think he will be an Ace (nor a #2 in Atlanta), but on some other teams he could easily be a #2 in a couple of years.

homerlanding - February 25, 2010 reply

Personally, I think they are both undervalued

acie4mvp - February 25, 2010 reply

Minor's...what is higher than a ceilig?

I would belive like others that Minor is a sure 4 or 5 starter but his performances on the big stage games lead me to believe that the “Sky” is his limit not his ceiling. I would not go with number one because Hanson will be there or my lack of faith only keeps him at number two. If I was just basing in on his college career then I would sell him short. I asked some of his fellow players at Danville there opinion of him and got glowing remarks////
So, I am sticking to this but I am biased…I am a huge Vandy fan!

bravestatoo - February 27, 2010 reply

At Danville? He never played with Danville.

cbwilk - February 27, 2010 reply

I meant Rome

bravestatoo - February 27, 2010 reply

wow

Freeman has GG defense, hits line drives all over the field, and has some crazy power

dont believe me check this video

drumzalicious - February 25, 2010 reply

I’ll never understand the folks who are doubting him. I can’t wait for four years from now when he’s an all star and they’re all over his junk.

Stephen Schmidt - February 26, 2010 reply

He's a good guy to doubt though.

The defensive premium placed on that position are so low that his bat is where the majority of his value has to come from. There really is less margin for him to stumble with the bat than a good defensive player at any other position, and the level his bat needs to be at to be league average at 1st is much higher. Thats why probably more than 1/2 the teams in baseball have a 1st base prospect they feel is a future allstar at the position.

I think Freeman’s bat projects to fit at first though. You’ve got to keep in mind he was the youngest player in his league to start the year, and he got promoted. And he fought through injuries all year, and still came out with nice numbers. Trust me he impressed plenty of people around the Southern League before the injuries got to him.

I look for him to destroy the SL this time around. And he’s still a top 50 prospect, IMO.

timmy3 - February 26, 2010 reply

This. The kid was freaking 19! The only time he’s even remotely struggled with the bat was when he had a wrist injury. I’m no doctor, but if your wrist hurts it’s hard to hit. Freeman is only a good guy to doubt if you just like going out of your way to doubt people.

cbwilk - February 26, 2010 reply

His wrist was not broken. Please use real facts when making a point.

justincredubil02 - February 26, 2010 reply

Is this the Schafer argument all over again? I’m having deja-vu

Bronn - February 26, 2010 reply

Very quickly

The next thing is that Bobby Cox says it was “busted up real good,” then someone else argues that Bobby’s words aren’t meant to be literally, someone else produces a photo of his hand in a cast, then someone points out that casts are used very frequently to immobilize ligaments when there’s no broken bones, then we start talking about hairline fractures, etc.

Let’s just not get into it.

Bronn - February 26, 2010 reply

It was a reference to that and a certain poster who demands literal perfection.

justincredubil02 - February 26, 2010 reply

I got the joke justin, I laughed.

cbwilk - February 26, 2010 reply

Break camp with him, let’s see what he can do.

TradeAndruw - February 25, 2010 reply

Right behind Bethancourt

1. Heyward
2. Teheran
3. Vizcaino
4. Freeman
5. Minor
6. Bethancourt
7. Salcedo

No Delgado?

consider his age and the level he’s played (and played well at), I think we really undervalue Randall Delgado. Zeke Spruill as well, who could become much better as he fills out his frame.

I have no way to guess at an appropriate ranking at this time...

… but I will say that I like the idea spending this money for this player more than any amount for Johnny Damon!

carpengui - February 25, 2010 reply

+1

I don't see how you could make a valid argument to rank him in the top ten at this point.

He’s been sheltered by Buscones for the last three years, and hasn’t yet played regularly against competition thats even as good as US high school kids see. All reports seem to have him with several plus tools (although the power is all projection at this point), but without seeing his approach at the plate its hard to see what those tools could actually do. Smart signing after giving their top pick away though.

I justify my ranking (#5) based on the professional judgement of our director for international scouting. He claimed that Salcedo is one of the top international players he has seen in awhile. His opinion, along with the fact that Salcedo is a 6’3, 190LB shortstop with positive offensive and defensive projections, make it pretty simple for me to slide him inbetween Vizcaino and Minor.

I mean, this guy could be a top 10 prospect in all of baseball by the end of the season.

"I mean, this guy could be a top 10 prospect in all of baseball by the end of the season."

Seriously? That’s about as likely as Jeff Francoeur drawing 100 walks. He may very well be a good looking young kid, but it’s extremely rare for anyone in their first year of play to be considered in the top 25 by most sources, and those guys are usually far more advanced. You’re basing your entire judgement of the guy on one comment by a biased party at the press conference announcing his signing. Guys like Goldstien and Sickels have never seen anything other than highlight clips of him.

but it’s extremely rare for anyone in their first year of play to be considered in the top 25 by most sources,

How many years did Heyward or Hanson have in the minors before being ranked in the top 25?

Heyward was ranked #28 by BA after his first season, based on 43 at bats in the gulf and appy rook leagues…

If Salcedo gets 500 at bats at Rome and does great (which he very well could), I don’t see a reason he wouldn’t be considered.

My “meaningless to everyone except myself” prediction is that the Braves won’t hesitate to bump him up a level to the Beach if he does well at Rome. There are reports floating around that they are already considering starting him at Myrtle. If he performs well at high A, no way he doesn’t atleast get top 25.

But while ....

Salcedo could get 500 at bats in Rome or above, he could just as easily have visa issues, and get a late start in Danville struggling to adjust to being in the US. At this point, it’s a major what if game. Obviously, if things turn out for the best, they could be really good. But the chances everything comes up Milhouse this year is probably slim.

Heyward was entering his 3rd pro season, which was a very fast case.

Hanson was entering his 4th.

Smart Guy

Entering his 3rd season sounds alot better for your case than after his 2nd season. Anyways, entering his 3rd season, Heyward was all the way to number 5. And Hanson’s 4th season included a promotion to Atlanta.

Either way, Heyward is an absolute beast.

It’s still hard to see how Salcedo would climb the rankings faster than Heyward did without putting up even more ridiculous numbers, which would be pretty hard to see happening. That type of approach out of an 18yr old kid is almost unheard of, which is largely what makes Heyward so special. Salcedo’s a very smart signing for sure, but nobody knows what his approach looks like and his size would generally indicate that he’d have to shift positions at some point. Without seeing even 1 AB at the minor league level, I don’t see how it’s fair to say he could be a top ten prospect in MLB by seasons end. I guess it’s possible, but between current minor leaguers, guys in this years draft, and other IFA’s it’s highly unlikely.

He doesn’t have to climb as high as Heyward did. He just has to crack the top 25, which I think is very possible after only 1 professional season.

Your right. I was arguing from the standpoint that he would be beasty like Heyward. Another once-in-a-decade prospect that fell in our laps. I definitely think its fair that you disagree, and I hope someone would.

I think #1 should have been a choice.

Heyward is not human and is too good for any prospect list of any type, so he shouldn’t count. ;)

That said, using the normal rules, I voted for 6th, behind Heyward, Freeman, Teheran, Vizcaino, and Minor. I am not sure why people are so bent out of shape about ranking him highly when he hasn’t played professionally yet. His signing is being compared to a first round draft pick (and the money is close enough), and first round draft picks get ranked in teams top 10’s all the time even when they don’t sign in time to play at all the year that they are drafted based on their tools. Yeah, his ranking is a lot iffier than guys who have played in the minors and could jump or fall tremendously depending on how he performs in 2010, but that’s just how it works.

cavebird - February 25, 2010 reply

I can’t believe I had to get this far down the thread to find some logic. Well done other cb.

I pretty much agree with this, though I will say that I’ll also take Randall Delgado ahead of him, so that’d put him at 7. Bethancourt and him are mix and match basically, two teens likely going to Rome who look to stick at a premium defensive position.

I just can’t snub Delgado for an un-known yet. Dude has easy-heat, and he finished the season as one of the best pitchers in the league. He really put it together after having a rough stretch, and if he builds off how he finished, I think you’ll see him move onto a lot more people’s radars around the game.

timmy3 - February 26, 2010 reply

How are Bethancourt and Salcedo "mix and match"?...

Bethancourt is younger, and has actually produced in the system, and will almost certainly be further along when he arrives in spring (if he hasn’t already, which Salcedo certainly hasn’t and will have an adjustment period once he does).

Mr. Sanchez - February 26, 2010 reply

I just voted 10 because not much is known about him.

ChrisK562 - February 25, 2010 reply

I voted 7th, which I consider generous, he’s got to be below Bethancourt.

Lennox - February 25, 2010 reply

off topic "Jurrjens not out of the woods"

there’s an article at AJC that has me worried. I have a bad feeling. Oh and as for who is to blame, I boo’d JJ after I heard of this and everyone jumped on me:

“Jurrjens gave everyone a scare when he had soreness and tightness after reporting early to camp about 10 days ago, after feeling a twinge or pop in his shoulder when he made a submarine-style, across-the-body throw during a loosely run game in Curacao before he left for Florida.

He said he’s learned from that and will be more careful in the future. Fortunately, he learned without paying a big price, or at least it seems that way now."

So the moral of this story is that people who are paid to play baseball should never play baseball for fun in the offseason.

alligatorimpersonator - February 25, 2010 reply

For real,

it’s not like he went all Jeff Kent on us.

Baseball = Serious Business

Kinda like the intertubes.

Sparhawk - February 25, 2010 reply

I went with 7

Behind Heyward, Freeman, Teheran, Vizcaino, Minor, and Delgado. I realize now I forgot about Bethancourt who I would probably slot slightly ahead of him. And to be honest, I think that’s an incredibly aggressive ranking, based almost entirely on upside, considering we have absolutely no data or recent scouting reports available.

nixa37 - February 25, 2010 reply

Yeah, the best info we really have on Salcedo at this point is that the Braves were willing to spend a record amount to land him. That speaks volumes to me…. I still opt to withhold a vote now, but it’s pretty exciting.

carpengui - February 25, 2010 reply

I have him at seven

behind Heyward, Freeman, Teheran, Vizcanio, Minor, and Bethancourt

I slotted him right behind Bethancourt because they are very similar to me with the difference being Bethancourt has pro experience and has performed well in that. They’re both very talented, both a long way away, and both play premium positions with huge ceilings. I just can’t see ranking him any higher with only hype to really go off of at this point, but I could see dropping him lower until he shows something in the pros. Still excited about him though.

was385 - February 25, 2010 reply

LOL @ MattyD

Gettin a haircut on ESPN.

And they nearly creamed their pants over Jason Heyward. Ahhh…i’m glad to be a Braves fan.

Scott Coleman - February 25, 2010 reply

If anyone knows what it is like to cream their pants over JH, you would.

: )

haha

Hahaha

Guilty as charged.

Scott Coleman - February 25, 2010 via mobile reply

Started him at a 10. I’ve never even seen the kid, so we should have a redo after he’s played a month or so.

Sparhawk - February 25, 2010 reply

laughable

……….hmmmm if i was to rank the articles ive read about him id say they are somewhere in the top half of any praise i have read about on a 19 yr old braves baseball player in the last few years. He ranks behind the articles written about heyward, freddie,teheran, kimbrel, new kid vizcaino and a handfull of others but above articles i have read about johnson, minor, sprull and so on and so forth………
How can anyone know where he ranks without seeing him. I am pumped about this kid but to rank him from a fan standpoint(not looking at you gondee, scouts etc) is laughable.

I am pumped about this kid but to rank him from a fan standpoint(not looking at you gondee, scouts etc) is laughable.

Whats the point of being a fan then? We are a fan blog, making fan projections, for us fans.

how would i possibly rank him? better yet, how would you rank him? Thats my point, we trust these scouts telling us about these kids but we as fans have no idea. Forgive me for wanting to see something with my own eyes..

Ah, I get it now. You are Joe Morgan.

: )

You didn’t play with Lego’s as a kid did you?

legos?

Have you seen salcedo, tell me about him? I would love to hear about him from your point of view? did you follow him on el twitter page? I was simply making a point i dont need you to question mt childhood toys….which by the way was your moms tits

This is a warning. You have been warned.

I’m not talking about seeing Salcedo, I’m talking about having a little fun and enjoying the fact that we just signed a guy that professional sports journalists (not implying any bias, just that these guys get paid to talk about this stuff) have compared to AROD and HRAM. So what if we talk him up a little bit, that’s kinda what fans do. We can be more conservative later..

I apologize for questioning your childhood, I assumed you weren’t actually a child and could handle sarcasm. Seriously though, you need to tell your mom to invest in you some Lego’s.

kum bay ya

oh i get it. Now i can say i will accurately put him 7th. thanks for your help. i will just put him up there in the ranks with the other braves minors that we(as fans) have formed our own opinions on and discussed here everyday throughout the past fewseasons. thanks for putting me in my place.

can we rec this as an example?

You're not a scout.

What does it matter if you see him or not? What does it matter if I see him or not, for that matter? I don’t know what the hell to look for in a kid, you don’t either. The only thing I can do is go by what scouts say plus a little math.

It isn’t necessary to have seen someone play to rank prospects. Of the top forty list I publish, I’ve seen 17 of them play, but it doesn’t matter if I’ve seen zero or all 40, me seeing them play gives me no useful information. I’m not qualified to evaluate talent visually, and nobody is unless they’ve been professionally affiliated with a scouting department. It’s much more useful to take the guys who are paid to do this word for it, because they actually know what they’re talking about.

And if you’re saying that I or we aren’t capable of taking scouting reports from professional scouts into consideration along with statistics and forming our own rankings, well, that’s just wrong. Any intelligent human being is capable of doing this.

You can ignore it if you want, it’s rather rude to call it laughable. Plus you’re wrong, so just shut up.

PWHjort - February 28, 2010 reply

I disagree with the premise that I don’t know how to watch a player and judge him because I haven’t been professionally trained. I disagree with it vehemently.

cbwilk - February 28, 2010 reply

You think any Joe blow without professional training is capable of seeing an 18-year old play baseball and projecting with any degree of accuracy how good they can or will be in five years?

PWHjort - February 28, 2010 via mobile reply

Not any Joe Blow, but certainly some Joe Blows.

cbwilk - February 28, 2010 reply

Visa?

Has anyone heard if the US is going to allow him back in the country? Is it true that he once entered the country with fake documents?

bighop - February 25, 2010 reply

I don’t think the organization is worried about his visa and no, it’s not true that he once entered the country with fake documents.

For all I know, he’s never entered the country. He tried to in 2007, but the US held it up. After a lengthy investigation, it turns out he was telling the truth the whole time.

PWHjort - February 25, 2010 reply

I've got Salcedo 6th

1. Heyward
2. Teheran
3. Vizcaino
4. Freeman
5. C. Bethancourt
6. Salcedo

PWHjort - February 25, 2010 reply

I too had him at 6. Although I disagree with Freeman 4th.
1. Heyward
2. Tehran
3. Freeman
4. Vizcaino (although I wouldn’t be surprised if he moves up this year)
5. Bethancourt
6. Salcedo

GoBravesNY - February 25, 2010 reply

eh

i would actually rank Freeman 2nd

drumzalicious - February 25, 2010 reply

That’s where upside for me comes in. I think that Freddie has the upside to be borderline allstar. From what it seems, Tehran is Hanson-esque. Then again, my only knowledge is my ever so sprase BP and whatever is here. Although can someone explain Vizcaino above Freddie. That one I don’t see.

And one other thing. How hasn’t the joke of calling Freeman Captian Marvel Jr. not come up yet? Or did I just miss it?

GoBravesNY - February 25, 2010 reply

Vizcaino and Teheran are basically the exact same pitcher in terms of upside, floor, experience, age, development, etc..

Anyway, 2-3-4 are basically interchangeable and 5-6 are interchangeable.

PWHjort - February 25, 2010 reply

Agreed. I wouldn’t make to much about what number a single person is, just what group. I think that our prospects are so good that we should just rank them by tier.

GoBravesNY - February 25, 2010 reply

I think their approach, Teheran seems to be a pitcher while Vizcaino is a thrower trying to learn how to be a pitcher, clearly puts Teheran ahead, but that’s me.

And I'm thinking...

Spruill, R Delgado, and Bethancourt are well underrated by the fans around here. They should get much more consideration for top 5 in the system than they do imo, especially Spruill and Bethancourt.

And I’m sure they will have if they have a good 2010. Bethancourt needs to put it together in full season ball before I annoint him a top 5 status. And I think most people are a little worried about Spruill’s in season demotion to heap too much praise on him just yet.

chopc - February 26, 2010 reply

If Delgado has a good season, he definitely moves up my list, maybe even to 3. I can’t see Bethancourt moving up this year past the 5 slot, and ttytt, I don’t know enough about Spurill to move him up

GoBravesNY - February 26, 2010 reply

Agreed

Especially on Bethancourt. Sky’s the limit for that kid.

PWHjort - February 27, 2010 reply

This may be true..

I just think that’s the last thing to consider at this stage of their development. They’re eighteen years old, most pitchers are still refining their approach many years into their MLB career. It’d be different if they had both just finished AA and Teheran was displaying an advanced approach (by the way, Baseball America 2010 prospect handbook on Teheran: “Teheran is still learning how to pitch.”) and Vizcaino was still just a thrower, but they’re both not remotely close to MLB ready. They’ve got plenty of time to iron out any approach issues. The tools are what’s important at this point, for me at least. And they’ve got mind-blowingly similar tools.

I still think they’re the exact same. I like Teheran a bit better, but that may just be from familiarity.

PWHjort - February 27, 2010 reply

That’s interesting that BA says that, since everything I’ve seen about Teheran, and from what I’ve seen in person, talks about him as having an advanced idea of pitching. Weird.

cbwilk - February 27, 2010 reply

Shouldn't R Delgado be grouped in with them?

Would either of you be disappointed if Teheran and Vizcaino had a similar season as Delgado at age 19 in Rome?

Mr. Sanchez - February 28, 2010 reply

I’d be a little disappointed, because even though all of his secondary numbers were pretty good, he didn’t dominate in the way I expect those two, especially Teheran to. I don’t see him at their level yet. He’s a good pitcher and I think he’s going to develop well, but I think Teheran and Vizcaino are a cut above.

cbwilk - February 28, 2010 reply

they actually arent

drumzalicious - February 26, 2010 reply

and why not?

GoBravesNY - February 26, 2010 reply

Yes they are.

PWHjort - February 27, 2010 reply

hmm

I dont know where i would rank him and im not sure how anyone could rank him without seeing him play in the US first

drumzalicious - February 25, 2010 reply

I put him 7th with some reservations. Obviously he has some talent but we still arent sure about his age and he’s yet to play an inning in the minors. I read a scouting report that projects him as a 3rd basemen, not a SS. If he indeed plays 3rd i think he’s kinda risky as a prospect. Power is a tool thats really hard to project but is needed for a 3rd basement and now it seems he doesnt have much (from a scouting report i read). Anybody remember Sean Burroughs?

chopc - February 25, 2010 reply

But we are sure about his age. It’s 18. He was born on July 30th, 1991.