Talking Chop

Pujolsalelujah!

fandave - February 11, 2010 reply

This feels like Jack Peavy all over again

AlRoBraves95 - February 11, 2010 via mobile reply

Is that Jake’s little brother?

Rhyno18 - February 11, 2010 reply

Some sources are reporting that the Braves have offered Damon $6 million for a 1 year deal and may be willing to go a little higher if necessary. I’m not saying that’s the truth, I’m just saying that this is what some sources are reporting.

Zontar - February 11, 2010 reply

I’m pretty sure the Braves don’t have 6 mill to spend, much less more than that. From an earlier report, their offer was heavily deferred, I really doubt a Borass client takes a deferred contract over one that pays it all basically right away.

MO'toole - February 11, 2010 via mobile reply

What are your sources? Can you post a link?

It was on MLBTR...

…IIRC.

You just made me take a step out onto the ledge…

FineHamAbounds - February 11, 2010 reply

Who’s the source?

AlRoBraves95 - February 11, 2010 via mobile reply

KRos at it again

This guy … ugh! He’s apparently heard from “sources” that the Tigers owner has authorized a $14 mil 2 yr deal. If that’s the case then Iilitch should fire himself! Why offer that when there is nobody else offering two years???

More than likely this is another instance where KRos heard a rumor and jumped the gun!

scstrato - February 11, 2010 reply

Dude, don’t crush our dreams lol. Pray that he’s right an that the Tigers owner is that stupid.

MO'toole - February 11, 2010 via mobile reply

Hahaha!

Well, the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Ilitch HAS in fact done this before, as KRos mentions, with Pudge and Maggs! Not sure what “dirt” Boras has on the guy but it sure appears that he’s got him by the balls.

scstrato - February 11, 2010 reply

mlbtraderumors says...

The Tigers have “permission” to offer 2 years at $7MM apiece. He’d be stupid not to take that one, so hopefully this means we’re off the hook.

I think

Damon is a bargain at $4 mil. Maybe even $5. But more than that.. I’d rather go with Heyward and Schafer.

BigG1392 - February 11, 2010 reply

go Tigers

adc62 - February 11, 2010 reply

Go Tigers indeed! Let’s end this crap now so I can go play in the snow without any worries weighing me down!

HansonManCrush - February 11, 2010 via mobile reply

Damon’s fine at the reported Braves offer of 4 MM, but no way we should go above that by a cent.

$4,000,000.01 would be too much!

fandave - February 11, 2010 reply

i would've really liked Damon on a 1 year deal

but 2 years, let alone $14MM is madness.

Scott Coleman - February 11, 2010 via mobile reply

Given the situation...

…if the Tigers do get him for 2 yrs/$14 million it would make sense. Probably too much sense for it actually to happen, but….

Damon is still a solid player. He can still offer plenty of value, even $14 million worth in two years. He just isn’t that much better (or anywhere near that much better) than what we already have. He may well be that much better than what the Tigers would be running out there is they don’t sign him.

Agreed. He also represents much lower reward with greater risk at $14M/2 than $4M/1.

Yakker - February 11, 2010 reply

Scott is a genius! This guy is able to create a market when there isn’t a market! Since Scott is a powerful agent and represents the biggest name in baseball players, I wonder if he holds team hostage if he doesn’t get what he wants for the player that is a free agent now and not even consider that team for future signings of his clients? Just a thought!

AlRoBraves95 - February 11, 2010 via mobile reply

No it would not make sense to overpay him by that much. They are bidding against themselves in terms of years & dollars. Plus His numbers will suffer in that huge park not to mention his horrid defense will be exposed even more. The Tigers traded Granderson to save money yet are going to pay Damon more per year to be worse in about every category, especially defense. Their GM is stupid if the rumors are true.

FitzFan - February 11, 2010 reply

This

I HATED the Granderson deal. Granderson is one of baseball’s few real class acts, and I hated to see him join the evil empire. Plus I’m in a fantasy keeper league where the rule has been No Yankees since year one, so I can’t keep him this year despite the great year he hd for me last year.

/rant. Why they would rather have Damon than Grandy though is beyond me. This is, though, the guy that’s been known to way oversign his own players (see Ordonez, Magglio and Cabrera, Miguel), so who knows what he’s thinking. He clearly is not a rational being.

J-Freak - February 12, 2010 reply

Yes

he can go sign with the Tigers instead

Erihury - February 11, 2010 reply

Boras does it again.

It looked like he completely screwed this one up with Damon, but now on top of the Tigers’ apparent offer, two tweets (twits?!) are saying that the White Sox and Tigers are now in a bidding war. Amazing.

two tweets (twits?!)

You are correct, sir. The tweets are the posts, the twits are the ones making them.

Yeah...

…the twits comments was based on the people who made them and my thoughts on their reliability. ;)

I can’t stand anybody that uses twitter for journalistic reasons. You want the whole world to know you just finished breakfast and are heading to the shower? That’s your prerogative, but don’t try to break a story on twitter. It’s just juvenile.

Coming from a Memphis fan...

GO TIGERS GO!

If that offer is correct...

The Tigers are totally getting screwed. The rumored Braves offer of $2 million now and $2 million deferred sounds about right given our budget and interest. The Tigers are getting screwed over if they give up 2/14 for him.

This is another topic but I’d use this as an example to our friend JC Bradbury over at Sabernomics who says there is no such thing as a GM getting taken advantage of. I don’t care how you value players, paying someone $14 million when nobody else wants to offer more than $2 million is just dumb.

ajones2522 - February 11, 2010 reply

wow gondee ...

Never seen you take such a vehement stand against a FA acquisition, at least not from what I can recall reading.

I’m ready to move on, 7 days until pitchers and catchers report.

So, if Damon was our Ken Griffey, Jr. this year (LFer we flirt with signing, then have him go somewhere else), who is going to be this year’s FUGA (horrible LF pickup that hurts the team, made just for the sake of signing someone)?

doesn't really qualify with his salary ...

but Hinske?

We already have Hinkske and he is actually a pretty good bench player.

I’m talking a signing to make up for the PR of losing out on Damon, a guy with some “name value” that is still available. A real professional hitter. Jermaine Dye.

I misread what you wrote (thought you were talking about players we'd already signed)

My bad. I’m not down on Hinske, more like disappointed with his relative mediocrity in spite of his supposed potential, if that makes sense.

Well, if the Braves want to overcome any negative PR they’re getting over missing out (there’s only positive thoughts around here it seems) over Damon, they should just start Heyward in RF. Then they can sell him at the end of spring, saying “He already looks like a better hitter than Damon ever was, so we don’t feel like we missed out.”

That’s how to beat this.

Bronn - February 11, 2010 reply

...

Greg Norton?

hollerin' brave - February 11, 2010 reply

FUGA is still out there…..

bravesfan91 - February 11, 2010 reply

horrifying

I had not really considered the possibility that this was anything more than an obsession with Damon. If they try to pursue another OF, that is a sure sign that they do not have confidence in Diaz as an everyday outfielder. That would be unfortunate.

hopefully

Gomes

hopefully

~~Gomes~~ Jermaine Dye

FTFY

Yakker - February 12, 2010 reply

eh

he is damon with less speed

No, he's much more than that.

Dye is unusable in the OF (as in, twice as bad as FUGA was last year, consistently for the past four years) and his bat has declined. He’s a DH at best.

Word fail

He’s much worse than that is what I meant. Dye is this years FUGA.

i hope not

Even if Heyward is doing TERRIBLE in ST i would rather an OF of Diaz/McLouth/Cabrera

Reggie Sanders?

ronjba - February 11, 2010 reply

reply fail

ronjba - February 11, 2010 reply

Reggie Sanders fail

oVecKid - February 12, 2010 reply

Jon Heyman says that the Tigers have 1 and 2 year offers on the table. He also thinks that we’re still in on the bidding …

So he's clearly an idiot...

if a 2 year offer is on the table, why have a 1 year offer out there, especially if both are for 7m a season. Maybe if it was like 1/$7m or 2/$12m.

Mr. Sanchez - February 11, 2010 reply

maybe he doesn't like Detroit/really likes the prospect of playing for Bobby?

Not saying it’s right, just that there may be a few more variables aside from cost and contract length.

I was referring to the comment of...

“the Tigers have 1 and 2 year offers on the table”, outside of different per season $ values (and 1/$7m vs. 2/$14m isn’t that), it makes no sense for the Tigers to have both of those offers on the table as the 2/$14m is obviously the choice.

Mr. Sanchez - February 11, 2010 reply

Unless Damon thinks that he could play this year on a one season deal, and then sign a bigger deal next year.

nathan rothschild - February 11, 2010 reply

sure seems like it would be a crazy risk to take, turning down $7 M guaranteed income.

fandave - February 11, 2010 reply

which would mean he really is an idiot

Mr. Sanchez - February 12, 2010 reply

fingers crossed

Braves managemt is completely incompetent if they get into a bidding war with this nonsense. $14m / 2 will get you .270, 10 HR, 15 steals over 2. And that’s a FAIL.

I just hope Lwe can get a sub 4 ERA

yikes ... exaggerate much?

Damon still has value, just not on this club. Relax friend, I think the Tigers have him locked up.

Why the hell would the Tigers pay that much after one of the only teams in bidding offered just 4M…

bwellnjonesco - February 11, 2010 reply

JD......

would be a good fit in Detroit, not so much in ATL

Really?

Cammando2317 - February 11, 2010 reply

Damon would've been great

would’ve led our team in HRs last year, and been near the top of our team in both Avg & OBP. why not sign Damon and trade Melky, who is only marginally better defensively but worse at everything else than Damon? how many years of horrible offense, a fragile chipper jones, and a leading HR hitter with barely 20 HRs is it going to take for people to realize that Melky, Troy Glaus and Eric Hinske are not the answer?

i agree that 2 yrs/ $14M is too much, but the raging anti-Damon sentiment here makes very little sense.

imetz - February 11, 2010 reply

brilliant

We need Damon as our clean-up hitter.

Bronn - February 11, 2010 reply

7 mill a year just isn’t enough for a player of his caliber. I’m thinking we go NHL style, and sign him to a 13 year deal.

oVecKid - February 12, 2010 reply

You do realize that the only reason the great and almighty Johnny Damon only put up those home run numbers last year because he was in Coors East right? If you don’t, you’re either dumb as a brick or a Met’s fan, and if you’re a Met’s fan, your both.

MO'toole - February 11, 2010 reply

oVecKid - February 12, 2010 reply

You know what REALLY doesn’t make any sense? Thinking that Damon’s power numbers are not a product of Coors East.

If you watch highlights from this past season, a lot of those home runs he hit at Yankee stadium look like routine pop outs to right field, so yeah definately a product of Coors East as its being called now ( I think its fiting.)

Exactly – kind of like the HR that Nick Green hit in Fenway to beat us earlier last season.

trying to forget that

please dont bring it up

Finally A stop to all this nonsense about Damon

The Braves would only just waste money on him, plus leave us with Melky starting waaaaaayyyy too much. Thank goodness Damon is not going to sign with the Braves. Now we can all start arguing about if we use Melky more than a 4th OF then we should have kept Francoeur. Their batting stats aren’t much different, except to say Melky at least walks more.LOL Diaz is going to have a breakout year and exceed everyone’s expectations.

jimmontg - February 11, 2010 reply

Melky’s numbers are similar to Frenchy’s…that is very true. The difference is that Melky will be our 4th OFer (by June at the latest), and Frenchy was a key piece in our offense last year, starting every damn day.

Nova Scotia Steve - February 11, 2010 via mobile reply

+1

Yakker - February 12, 2010 reply

This

Darin H - February 12, 2010 reply

I agree. I don’t understand all the negative comments about a guy who is always in the post-sea and AlWAYS produces in the post-season…i haven’t read one logical/good point that has led me to believe Damon would not help this team win. And really all these comments about what he’s worth and how much money ATL has…really none of us have any idea…Liberty Media could have easily made funds available without anyone ever knowing about it….maybe Wren made a weak to medium offer to Damon on purpose…knowing Detroit or some other team would trump it…only later to increase the original offer…so not to blow his wad all at once type deal…this is poker at its best!

Nova Scotia Steve - February 11, 2010 via mobile reply

What part of sucky defense, declining power, declining speed, not better than anyone currently on the roster, or in general, unecessary spending of money that we may need later is not logical?

Sucky defense…No, wait, declining speed? Agh, it’s so hard to decide…

Yakker - February 12, 2010 reply

Sucky defense: yes
Declining power: who cares, he’s a lead-off hitter
Declining speed: again, not important. he wouldn’t get the green light from Cox anyways
Not better than anyone on the roster: false, we have no lead-off hitters
Unnecessary spending: we offered 4 mil with 2 of that deferred. that wouldn’t break the bank

ajones2522 - February 12, 2010 reply

1. Glad we agree on that one. Why would you want someone who makes your team worse though?

2. Sadly, most people look at his 20+ HRs and think it makes him valuable and worth the money.

3. Declining speed – again, it is one of his draws. I agree that he wouldn’t get green lights, but for some reason, people think he will be a base-stealing threat.

4. Not better than anyone – True. He is not better than anyone. He doesn’t make the team better. He is worse on D, and will not provide anything that people on the roster currently cannot provide. Having a “legit” leadoff hitter is overrated. Just put a good hitter in the 1 and 2 spot, and you will be fine.

5. Rumors are that we are prepared to up the offer to $6M. Even at $4M, that is quite a price tag for someone who the team doesn’t need. The smart thing to do is to wait until June/July to see what the team needs.

I saw that too and If we in fact have up to $6 M available flexibility, that is an awesome bit of news on the rosterbation front.

There certainly may be some opportunities for adding really helpful pieces via trade either at the end of spring camps or mid-season.

Of course, given all the fawning over JD, until he is finally off the board, I will not rest easy.

fandave - February 12, 2010 reply

It probably doesn’t matter anymore since we obviously aren’t offering enough to compete but I think our offer of $2 mil now and $2 mil later would not have hampered our ability to add a piece later. I could be wrong but that’s the feeling I get looking at their salaries right now.

If that’s true then I would have been willing to take him on because I strongly believe you can’t just put someone in the lead-off spot. It takes a certain type of hitter to succeed and the use of certain skillsets such as a patient approach can really improve the productivity of the rest of the lineup. I love Diaz but I don’t think it’s smart to put a hack first player in the lead-off spot. Therefore I think having Damon in the lead-off spot would in fact improve our team.

Oh, and I am 100% confident that FW isn’t looking at HR or SB in his reasoning for signing Damon so the people you say who argue those points don’t matter. Those elements shouldn’t be in the equation.

ajones2522 - February 12, 2010 reply

$6m is what,...

triple what we gave Glaus? That seems a bit backwards to me.

Mr. Sanchez - February 12, 2010 reply

Liberty Media is not a hands on onwer like Ted Turner was, and like Mike llitch seems to be for the Tigers. The desicion will be made by Frank Wrenn, Schurholtz (sp?) and maybe Bobby, oh yeah and Damon/Boras of course. And its not that we think Damon is an awful player, its that he isnt an upgrade in any way, and will ultimately slow down the development od Diaz, Heyward, and Schaefer. All three are guys who could play a vital role in the future of this franchise.

Ok So....

I was reading on the Tiger’s Blog and the fans there seem to be for signing Damon. The moderator seems to be as firmly against it as gondee is, but the majority of the fans seem to like it. Earlier I made a quick comment saying that Damon is a good fit in Detroit (to which someone left a condescending reply) and I believe the fans in Detroit see this also. Its weird to imagine it but he could be their DH and leadoff hitter (Im not sure who all they have on the team right now.)

I’m not sure who all is in the mix for them either but I had the same thought, that if you could hide him at DH he’d be a good option as a leadoff hitter, especially in the offense first AL. But still, way too much money if they’re gonna give him 7 million.

cbwilk - February 11, 2010 reply

the DET fans are FOR signing Damon? the only thing i would sign regarding damon is that I Will Not Sign Johnny Damon petition yesterday

hawves - February 11, 2010 reply

Thank God!

More money, 2 years, a better chance at making the playoffs (not knocking the Braves, just a crappy division in the AL Central), staying in the American League, going back to a division he’s played in before, there is no way Damon goes to ATL. At least all this talk has distracted me from my “will Glaus get hurt” anxiety.

foxrobe - February 12, 2010 reply

Well

To the Tigers Damon could actually be worth the 14mil they are offering. The difference between them and us is that he would be able to DH and not hurt them in the OF with us his bat doesnt out weigh his glove.

And Damon's defense isn't that bad in left field...

…and, IIRC, the Tigers don’t have any great options in left. The reason Damon doesn’t help us is that he would replace Diaz, who is not appreciably worse than Damon.

HAOOOO

This is fantastic news. Damon will certainly take the 2yr 14 offer. He is obviously money hungry or he would have resigned with the Yanks if it was about winning.

rcates - February 12, 2010 reply

well

damon is better than melky. and while his HR numbers may be inflated, he did hit more doubles than Diaz, and he gets on base a lot more than melky. there is little evidence suggesting we’d be worse off with Damon, he’d only be a positive to the ball club (just not at $7 per year)

imetz - February 12, 2010 reply

Except for that pesky part of the game where people have to catch balls that the other team hits.

There question isn't whether we'd be worse off with Damon...

…the question is whether we would be better off with Damon. And I just don’t see how he is $4 or $6 or $7 million dollars better than Matt Diaz.

Diaz is a non issue, he’s not going to be getting those PA if we sign Damon or not. Bobby sees him as a platoon player, that’s what he’s going to be used as.

Lennox - February 12, 2010 reply

I think Bobby, should we sign Damon, would see Damon as the every day LF, thus taking away the platoon ABs from Diaz and relegating him to 4th/5th OF status.

he is

$3M better than Melky, especially if we get a prosepct out of it…

the guy isn’t andruw in his prime, but acting like he’s that horrible defensively isn’t accurate, especially compared to our other options.

also, he IS better than other players on the team, especially in the area where the team is really weak: offense. even if he declines some, he’d still be a more productive hitter than most of our lineup.

imetz - February 12, 2010 reply

Most of our lineup? Try maybe 1 or 2 people instead….

Offensively speaking:

Damon > McLouth (unless you think Nate’s power makes up for his lower OBP)
Damon < Prado
Damon <<<< Chipper
Damon <<<< McCann
Damon <<<< Escobar
Damon < Cabrera

Damon < Prado

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!! justin gave Prado credit for something!

10-4 - February 12, 2010 reply

I like to think that I am open-minded about most things, and give credit where credit is due.

I am still skeptical, but like JJ, until Prado proves otherwise, I have to go with him for now – especially since he is our only option.

RichmondBraves - February 12, 2010 reply

I really don't think Melky is better than Damon

I think Damon may be worth the $4 million, but honestly if we don’t sign him it won’t really matter. Damon is fine if we don’t give him 6 or 7 million, but he’s awful if we do give him that.

I don’t really like Damon either, so I’d rather not have him.

That was a typo. I meant to say that Damon is better than Melky.

I was about to say...

McLouth < Damon < Melky?

Mr. Sanchez - February 12, 2010 reply

But he won't take AB's from Melky.

He’ll take them from Diaz. Unless you, lennox (in post above), thinks that Cox doesn’t plan on playing Diaz much anyway. Melky is the fourth OF. Replacing your fourth OF with a starting left fielder leaves the team with too many left fielders and no fourth OF—-Diaz, who is really only capable of playing left is not a good fit for left field.\

Yes, I know a lot of places are projecting 550+ AB’s for Melky for the Braves this year (assuming we don’t sign Damon). If that is truly the plan, well, then we probably deserve to lose.