The final day of the baseball Winter Meetings. It's been a fun one, though just about all the action we got was a lefty reliever. Maybe the Braves will move Kawakami before they move on home.
The Rule 5 draft begins this morning at 9am, but the Braves rarely take anyone, and with a full bullpen and already decent Major League backup options in the minor league system, it's unlikely that the Braves will pick anyone once again. That doesn't mean, however, that the Braves won't have anyone taken from their system. Scott Diamond is the, well, the diamond (sorry) that could be plucked from Atlanta's system. If I was a GM of a team needing a fifth starter, I might also be inclined to take Todd Redmond (though a team could have taken him when he was placed on waivers off the 40-man roster a few months ago). Neither guy is flashy, but both have proven to be minor league work horses over the past couple of years. Of course, every team has guys like that in their system.
In the latest ex-Braves player news, the Royals signed not one, but two of our former outfielders. Jeff Francoeur AND Melky Cabrera agreed to contracts with the Royals yesterday. Francoeur got $2.5 mil, Melky got $1.25; not a lot by themselves, but that's almost $4 million combined, and surely the Royals could have gotten someone "good" for that kind of money. Hilarious.
I just saw that Carl Crawford deal with the Red Sox and my jaw dropped, once again. Of course, this might make Jacoby Ellsbury more available, and I love interjecting his name into every Braves trade rumor. If healthy he would be the leadoff guy and center fielder we've been looking for. I have no idea what the Red Sox needs are, but surely we have another Andy Marte in our system we can give them.
Happy hunting Frank.
133 comments
It would be fantastic to have Ellsbury. I done know if we have the ability to get him or not. He would be the first prototypical lead off man since Kenny Lofton.
rcates - December 9, 2010
Has the team
used the box of balls they got in exchange for Loften?
NC BS - December 9, 2010
Ahhhh
The Twins just picked up Scott Diamond. Bastards!!
AlRoBraves95 - December 9, 2010 via mobile
Can someone explain to me why the braves or other teams choose not to select a player?
AlRoBraves95 - December 9, 2010 via mobile
If you pick a player in the Rule 5 draft, you have to place them on your 25-man roster for the entire next season or give the player back to the team you took them from. If you have the guys you want, giving up the roster flexibility isn’t usually worth it.
a5ehren - December 9, 2010
plus $50k
Doghnut - December 9, 2010
what about...
Rafeal Furcal?
dlkinser86 - December 9, 2010
and
Otis? Didn’t he lead off?
vooodooo - December 9, 2010
Otis was before...
…Kenny Lofton.
cavebird - December 9, 2010
I think Furcal is too much of a free swinger to be a prototypical lead off hitter. However, his speed was very nice to have.
rcates - December 9, 2010
Ellsbury ain't exactly Chipper with the eye there bud...
OBP of .in the .350s and .330s in his two full seasons.
Between Ellsbury, Cameron, and Drew, I could see the Red Sox moving one, but which one is anyone’s guess. Depends on if they think Cameron is wasted money, or there is still bad blood with Ellsbury, or if they think Ellsbury can be a productive player going forward.
Mr. Sanchez - December 9, 2010
well our current lead off hitter had a .350 obp and no one seems to be unhappy with his production. The difference is that our current lead off hitter is not a potential 50 SB threat. I guy with speed can create situations on the base paths that others cannot. IMO, Ellsbury would be nice to have at the top of the order.
rcates - December 9, 2010
That's assuming Ellsbury repeats...
…his career best OBP (which is possible). It also assumes that the Prado’s additional power is equal to or less than Ellsbury’s speed. I disagree with that assessment. That being said, Ellsbury would certainly be an upgrade. The question, of course, is at what cost? If he can be had cheaply, that’s great. Somehow I doubt it is true, however.
cavebird - December 9, 2010
"the Prado..."
I love it. Did you do that on purpose? You, sir, are a marketing genius if so, but it doesn’t matter. I’m calling him “the Prado” from now on.
In fact, I may just call him “the Prado™” Trademark!
Chopaholic - December 9, 2010
I like Prado and my argument was not that he is better then Prado it was just about the obp. I’m sure we will not be able to afford Ellsbury but it is a nice thought.
rcates - December 9, 2010
I still think Ellsbury will cost more than he is worth.
He is arbitration eligible, so he’ll probably make $3 million or so in 2011, and given his big name value, the Red Sox will probably want a lot for him. If they want to trade him to us on the cheap, I am fine with that; but I wouldn’t want to give up a Delgado or Teheran for him.
I still think the Sox move Cameron (eating most of the contract) instead. I wouldn’t mind him on the cheap either and he would be cheap.
cavebird - December 9, 2010
I suggested Ross since they said they wanted a C (We’d get Salty) They also wanted a reliever, giving them Linebrick makes sense in that regard also.
for pitchers, I’d offer Beachy. I wouldn’t sell the farm for Ellsbury though.
Broccoman - December 9, 2010
I doubt they would do Ross for Salty...
…they obvious want to see if they can finally get Salty to live up to his billing. I wouldn’t have any problem giving them Ross, Linebrink and Beachy, but I doubt that would be enough. Someone else would offer more than that.
cavebird - December 9, 2010
it seems like ross is too much of a clubhouse leader to give him up…not to mention he is the best backup catcher in baseball…
forgotten_glory - December 9, 2010
How about a three-way trade with KK going to Pittsburgh, Doumit to Boston and Cameron to Atlanta. The salaries can be worked out somewhat to where each team isn’t saddled with more than what they were expecting to have going into the year
jwrocks - December 9, 2010
Stark says the Sox dont plan on moving Cameron
Doghnut - December 9, 2010
This is, of course, the tricky part.
The Sox can run a high payroll. Yes, one outfielder is superfluous, but they don’t have any particular needs right now except some bullpen help, and they can just sign that relatively cheaply.
cavebird - December 10, 2010
Yeah
If Cameron is your 4th OF, you’re doing pretty well.
Doghnut - December 10, 2010
RH, good defender, good bat...
when healthy, he’d be a great piece for our OF. Move Kawakami for him straight up (yeah, they don’t NEED pitching, but he gives them insurance as either a reliever or starter). if not, I’d be willing to part with some combo of Beachy and minor league relievers (Gearrin, Hyde, Marek, etc).
Mr. Sanchez - December 9, 2010
Assuming your talking about Cameron, that makes sense...
…although if we give up Beachy, they had better be eating just about the entire contract.
cavebird - December 9, 2010
Yes, I was speaking of Cameron...
and agreed, the package of Beachy and relievers assumes they pay at leasst $5m, if not 6 or 7 of what he’s owed.
Mr. Sanchez - December 9, 2010
Plus
2008 – 50 sb
2009 – 70 sb
HeyMikey - December 9, 2010
Ellsbury, that is
HeyMikey - December 9, 2010
Isn't RH...
but he wouldn’t be bad if the price was Beachy and minor league relievers.
Mr. Sanchez - December 9, 2010
I realized after I posted this, you guys were talking about Cameron, but he also had 54 & 74 steals in 08 & 09, so he would be a good addition, just not the BA that Ellsbury had. You can learn to live with that, if the guy can manufacture runs in other ways.
HeyMikey - December 9, 2010
Cameron does not have Ellbury's batting average...
…but he does have more power and draws more walks. He does still have some speed, but he is aging. Ellsbury would be better, of course, but he would cost a lot more.
cavebird - December 9, 2010
1st: Salary relief (unless from behind the curtain, Liberty Media has loosened up the budget constraints).
2nd: Any other “big” moves.
fandave - December 9, 2010
I miss Diamond already, oh well, can’t keep everyone..
bwellnjonesco - December 9, 2010
Congrats to him – he just made the Majors.
carpengui - December 9, 2010
who got him?
10-4 - December 9, 2010
Twins
garlick - December 9, 2010
Not really.
He earned an audition in Spring Training and the beginning of the season.
About what he might have had here. Although, he probably has a better chance of making it with the Twins than he does here. But this is no guarantee.
garlick - December 9, 2010
This is true.
The Twins have a lot of guys like him already. I wonder if we would pony up the $25 K to take him back if he doesn’t make the Twins.
cavebird - December 9, 2010
Same here...
we didn’t for Osuna from KC last year. He did well in AA for the Royals, but got rocked in AAA.
Mr. Sanchez - December 9, 2010
You’re right, of course. But yeah, he gets a shot that he likely wouldn’t see this year from Atlanta.
carpengui - December 9, 2010
Braves select RH Eliecer Cardenas from Minn., LH Rowdy Hardy from K.C. in Triple-A phase of Rule 5
ByrneSupremacy - December 9, 2010
Cardenas doesn't look bad...
if he can get his control back
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=carden001eli
Hardy looks pretty old
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=hardy-001len
Mr. Sanchez - December 9, 2010
But his name is ROWDY
what a badass
Fatvirus - December 9, 2010
for real
Rowdy Hardy must get a chance in the Majors!
jlaw - December 10, 2010
I'd love to get my hands on Cameron
Ellsbury is going to cost quite a bit and I assume the Red Sox will still value him as if he is there starting CF of the future. Cameron on the other hand would largely just cost a willingness to eat his salary and some mediocre prospects. I’d love to have him manning CF for us and batting 6th or 7th in our order.
nixa37 - December 9, 2010
Just saw on the Braves site
Fredi is planning on batting Heyward 6th and McLouth 2nd in the batting order. Let the debate and bashing begin!
I Saw Buzz Beaned - December 9, 2010
RABBLE RABBLE VARIOUS ANGRY SENTIMENTS
TheLetter2 - December 9, 2010
If Nate starts hitting again it wouldn't be the worst thing
If not hopefully that would be reevaluated quickly. Heyward still shouldn’t be hitting that low in the order though. Really wastes his OBP talent.
nixa37 - December 9, 2010
It is just a stupid idea.
To have your best hitter bat sixth. It won’t hurt that much, but there is not real reason to do it.
cavebird - December 9, 2010
Agreed.
But I think there will be some lineup shuffling during the early part of the season, so I wouldn’t read too much into early lineups.
Tarkus - December 9, 2010
Um...
You do realize that it’s December 9th, right? I don’t think Fredi’s batting-order plans mean much when there won’t even be a lineup to fill out for 3 more months.
Jacob Peterson - December 9, 2010
He can say that in the offseason...
when they take the field, especially if Nate isn’t back to form, he may well change his mind on that.
Mr. Sanchez - December 9, 2010
Yeah, a lot can change during spring training.
Tarkus - December 9, 2010
And personally, I think the top should be...
Prado
Chipper
Heyward
Uggla
McCann
Almost a guarantee 1 of the top 3 get on for Uggla to drive in.
Mr. Sanchez - December 9, 2010
I like that...
But it’s probably more likely that Chipper and Heyward swap spots.
Tarkus - December 9, 2010
If Chipper comes to spring...
and shows contact and eye are going nowhere, but the power is down as he’s aging and injuries take their toll, I think Fredi (and Chipper) would be prone to sliding him up a spot, so his .400+ obp gives Heyward plenty of RBI chances.
Mr. Sanchez - December 9, 2010
I don't think so
Braves24 - December 9, 2010 via mobile
what's is contract?
Braves24 - December 9, 2010 via mobile
1 year and 7.25 million IIRC
nixa37 - December 9, 2010
Cameron will cost more than Ellsbury in terms of cash.
justincredubil02 - December 9, 2010
Ellsbury is still arb eligible, so he'll earn a couple million
And he’s going to have a significant prospect cost. The Red Sox seem to see him pretty clearly as their CF of the future so it would probably cost Delgado to get them interested. That just doesn’t seem worth it to me. I’d rather pay a few million more and not give up any prospects of note.
nixa37 - December 9, 2010
The Royals are doing their level best...
to propagate the myth that small markets can’t compete.
Tarkus - December 9, 2010
Small market teams that dont spend what little money they have wisely, cannot compete
bravesguy311 - December 9, 2010
Of course, neither can large markets.
Just ask the Mets.
Tarkus - December 9, 2010
Maybe someone can enlighten me,
because I just don’t get the whole Jacoby Ellsbury fascination. Even if you discount his lost 2010 (which I’m not really willing to do), he hasn’t been that good with the bat since his rookie year—which is looking increasingly like a fluke. He’s never shown the ability to take a walk, which is the one thing I would like if we’re going to get a new leadoff guy. He doesn’t hit for much power, either (career ISO: .114). Overall, his career wOBA is .343, which is good for a CF but hardly star-caliber.
Defensively, he seems to have been great in 2008 but very bad in 2009… Not sure what to believe there, and I haven’t seen him enough to really judge. Sure, he adds some value by stealing bases at a good rate, but he’s just not a great player. There’s a perception that he is great, though, which is going to drive his price up.
I mean, if he didn’t cost much, I’d love to have him, but I am 99% sure he’s going to cost more than he’s actually worth. So why are we all so eager to get him?
Jacob Peterson - December 9, 2010
I'm not eager to get him.
I don’t think he is a good option at all. Honestly, his career path to me doesn’t seem much different than somoene else that we held on to for too long. Albeit his skill is SB’s rather than a cannon arm.
jdmarine - December 9, 2010
I agree completely
Doghnut - December 9, 2010
The fascination is...
most think we have nothing in CF, and we haven’t had a legit SB threat since Furcal. See the even more inexplicable fascination with Carlos Gomez as another example of that.
Mr. Sanchez - December 9, 2010
Yea, Sanchez I know where you are coming from but...
I really don’t see J.E. being much different than Young. Maybe I am overvaluing Young but, historically the Bravos have never really valued SB’s that much. Even with the likes of Nixon, Sanders, etc, they were never really turned loose the way they should have been. With that in mind, I don’t see the difference being great enough for what I feel it would likely cost to get him. Of course, new management not withstanding…..
jdmarine - December 9, 2010
<historically the Bravos have never really valued SB’s that much>
And by historically, you mean Bobby Cox?
I know speed doesn’t count for much for the whole season in terms of wins but it’d be fun to have a player capable of wreaking havoc (in a good way) on the bases.
Pavy848 - December 9, 2010
I did say new management not withstanding.
It would be neat to see but honestly, I still don’t think it’s going to help win an insanely higher number of games. Overall, my biggest issue is that I don’t think he would be worth what it would cost to get him. i just don’t think he is that good. I think he has peaked, and that what you see with him now is pretty much what you are going to get.
jdmarine - December 9, 2010
another Carlos
I would probably give up our top 4 prospects (other than Freeman) for Carlos Gonzalez. He is quickly becoming the best player in baseball. I know this is off topic but every time I see Carlos Gomez mentioned I am reminded how stinking awesome CarGo is.
KC Ryan - December 9, 2010
Coors Field
Rabble rabble average player on road rabble rabble rabble.
Dude is amazing, but won’t be leaving Denver until after 2014.
-C
cthabeerman - December 9, 2010
that rabble rabble thing sure is catching on....
ryan c - December 9, 2010
I think like people said that Jacob Ellsbury will be a more expensive option for us in the long run. Will his production minus the SB be the same in Turner Field?
Walker Wallace - December 9, 2010
he'd steal less bases at Turner also...
because the dirt is thicker and the basepaths are longer.
ryan c - December 9, 2010
Meh disagree It would factor much
MikeTrain - December 9, 2010
WHAT?!? You mean to tell me 90 ft in Boston =/= 90 ft in Atlanta?
My mind=blown.
J-Freak - December 9, 2010
I guess it has something to do with being closer to the equator. Like Jimmy Buffet said, Changes in Latitudes.
bighop - December 9, 2010
maybe the wind effect
joshant - December 9, 2010
wren has left the building...
Bowman has already put up his post-meeting piece on the main website. it looks like any trade or signing will not happen right now.
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101209&content_id=16290472&vkey=news_atl&c_id=atl
ryan c - December 9, 2010
Wow awful news
MikeTrain - December 9, 2010
Not particularly news here.
Everybody starts leaving after the Rule 5 draft. The Rangers, for example, have already scheduled their next meeting with Cliff Lee—in Arkansas for tomorrow I think.
cavebird - December 9, 2010
Sad It's over
MikeTrain - December 9, 2010
on the bright side
just read that artice at the bottom Frank said they may have something finalized in a day to or that will make the club better, move coming soon??? hopefully
bravesfan1047 - December 9, 2010
Something...
having to do with shipping KK.
HalleyGator - December 9, 2010
this
its probably nothing serious.
drumzalicious - December 9, 2010
How does losing a player make us "better"?
I can see how it frees up cash to make a move to make us better But simply losing a player in a salary dump, I fail to see how the same team without the player is better than with the player. Maybe if it’s a headache like Esco was, but KK isn’t on the roster, so not a clubhouse problem, just a cash flow problem.
Mr. Sanchez - December 9, 2010
Anyone else read on ESPN where Fredi said that Andruw may be an option for CF for us?
PLEASE WREN, MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!!
justincredubil02 - December 9, 2010
What I read...
is him saying Andruw’s name has been brought up, and they’re exploring the possibility, same with many other players. I also read that he is probably a long shot (though Wren himself didn’t say that).
Tarkus - December 9, 2010
I didn’t read about the long shot part.
I just read that Fredi said he may be an option, but that the job would be Nate’s to lose…in that race, my money is on Andruw.
justincredubil02 - December 9, 2010
I think the story I read was on AJC.
Tarkus - December 9, 2010
Ah, here we go...
Link
Tarkus - December 9, 2010
Eh, the AJC and hot leads don’t exactly go together – especially if this was DOB’s opinion.
Just my 0.02 on that.
justincredubil02 - December 9, 2010
It's Slim Pickens out there...
I hired you people to try to get a championship, not to jump around like a bunch of Kansas City faggots.
If Chipper were to go down, he could fill the void with Prado moving to 3rd. He’d be a great l/r CF platoon with McLouth. You could ride his hot hand early, and then when it’s time to call up Teheran, or Delgado, or another, deal pitching for a long term CF solution. I just love the idea of bringing Andruw back if he’s under $2m.
Mr. Sanchez - December 9, 2010
Where the white women at?
bighop - December 9, 2010
Can’t say I share the enthusiasm for bringing Andruw back. I’m hoping for something better than “Well, we had worse out there in 2009”. On the other hand, with his tremendous 9 stolen bases in 2010 (his highest total since 2001) that would make him a veritable speedster on the Braves and would have gotten him 2nd place in that category last year on the team.
Zontar - December 9, 2010
Or his 19 HRs…which, if I’m not mistaken, would have led the team.
justincredubil02 - December 9, 2010
You're mistaken.
McCann gets that crown.
J-Freak - December 9, 2010
Ah, yeah. Ol’ Heap.
justincredubil02 - December 9, 2010
Actually...
Uggla easily gets that honor. Obv not as a member of the Braves last year, but going forward. I just mention it since you’re talking about hypothetically having Andruw on the team and suddently begin the HR leader.
Siteburner - December 9, 2010
Of all of the Braves who were on the team last year, AJ would have led them in HRs hit, except for Heap. I am not talking about going forward.
justincredubil02 - December 10, 2010
sigh
im not so enthused about Andruw returning to our team. I would rather a full-time option than a platoon. Im tired of platoons!!!!
drumzalicious - December 9, 2010
+100000000000
with all ourmimors depth why is it so hard to get a quality starting cf? one that isnt coming off injury or has an array of questions
MikeTrain - December 9, 2010
our minors
MikeTrain - December 9, 2010
Cuz everyone’s stock answers when we ask what it would take for that kind of deal are Teheran and Minor, and those guys so far are worth more than the people we’re being asked to give them up for. I’d move Minor, Delgado, and other non-Teheran pieces for someone like Rasmus or Kemp, but those guys are off the table, and guys like Lorenzo Cain are not worth surrendering Teheran, Minor, or Delgado.
J-Freak - December 9, 2010
This.
justincredubil02 - December 9, 2010
So play AJ full time.
justincredubil02 - December 9, 2010
Whether you'd rather or not, you ain't getting it...
they keep saying McLouth in CF, with the kids competing. It’s pretty clear they aren’t targetting a full time, long term option for CF.
Mr. Sanchez - December 9, 2010
Except Fredi said that they have talked about it…
justincredubil02 - December 9, 2010
Disregard…
justincredubil02 - December 9, 2010
Was about to say...
they’ve talked about CFs, but not about bringing one in to start from the sound of it. They are all talking like it’s McLouth’s to lose (and I know, public talk isn’t always truthful).
Mr. Sanchez - December 9, 2010
finally,
we agree
Mr. Sanchez - December 9, 2010
We have our moments.
justincredubil02 - December 9, 2010
I do miss that vicious upcut swing and propensity to ignore making adjustments until it too late. But with all that being said, he’ll always be our Andruw and as long as he keeps the weight off, I’d welcome him back with WIDE open arms.
Pavy848 - December 9, 2010
god i hope so
forgotten_glory - December 9, 2010
I guess I'm a homer
I’m a Braves fan. I would be absolutely fine with Andruw coming back. Same with Schafer and Young. I’d rather see talent developed by the Braves playing than Ellsbury or Cain. Lots of responses about lack of experience with Schafer and Young, but we’re talking about 4th OFers, let them get some experience, maybe they can pay off next year when McLouth is finally gone. Andruw sounds like a long shot at best, so I’m hoping ST finds us hearing about how well Schafer and Young are playing.
bighop - December 9, 2010
cainnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
MikeTrain - December 9, 2010
Am I the only one who thinks Shafer deserves a chance to show what he can do if he really is healthy now?
JonnyBravesFan - December 9, 2010 via mobile
Deserves a chance, based on what?
Tarkus - December 9, 2010
Based on the fact...
That he played lights-out for the Spring Training and four regular season games he played in before getting hurt.
-C
cthabeerman - December 9, 2010
In that case, start him!
Tarkus - December 9, 2010
I expect him to make regular appearances this summer, I think it’s a matter of when rather than if.
-C
cthabeerman - December 10, 2010
He’s still young, fast and a good defender, he’s been working his butt off and if he can hit like 2 years ago, he deserves a chance to play. If he needs AAA time, that’s fine too. Schafer has always struggled with his K rate, I hope the extra work he has put in might help that part of his game.
bighop - December 9, 2010
His last season didn't help
a .200 average in 52 games with only 1 homer
plus a 25% K rate which is atrocious
BravosFanatic - December 9, 2010
Yes
But he was still well within the recovery window of the surgery he had done on his wrist in fall 09. That surgery takes about a year to fully heal, and only then can full strength and flexibility be achieved.
MartinMcFly - December 9, 2010
I know.
I just wanted to show those stats. I love how he is working hard and trying to make everything right and I hope He does.
BravosFanatic - December 9, 2010
Am I the ony one that can spell his name right?
justincredubil02 - December 10, 2010
Sheyfore?
KJDH2154 - December 10, 2010
Logan.
Doghnut - December 10, 2010
Schaeffer?
bighop - December 10, 2010
I’m still a fan of Schafer. And it is because I am still a fan that I think he should spend at least the first half of next season in AAA where he can get the regular at-bats he so desperately needs. If we’re going to go with an internal 4th outfielder option, we should go with someone like Young who doesn’t quite have the ceiling of Schafer.
2Brave2Bscared - December 9, 2010
I think that’s a real smart plan. Let Young backup as 4th OF this year, get some experience etc. Then Schafer and Young can handle it in 2012. If they can’t handle it, deal with it later. Needing a SS and possibly/probably a 3B or LF next off season, it would be nice to have Schafer and Young able to fill the CF and 4th OF spots.
bighop - December 9, 2010
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