Talking Chop

See...

I told you I was ignorant!

Jman781 - December 3, 2010 reply

Hi, I’m Brett Favre, have we met?

WHOOSH

J-Freak - December 3, 2010 reply

I know this is a baseball site, but please tell me that you at least know who Brett Favre is and that he retired and unretired every year for the last 3 years…..

ESPN gives 24/7 coverage of it every summer.

It was in response to this comment:

As far was Wagner returning, I strongly doubt it, for players never announce that they are retiring and then play again. Never.

That WHOSH you heard...

was the sarcasm flying right over your head.

Thanks for clarifying, because I had no idea.

Im so stoopid I dont no thees thing

And, it was WHOOSH, not WHOSH. :-)

That WHOSH you heard...

was my spelling fail. ;)

haha ~~- happens to me all the time :~~)

comment fail...

haha. happens to me all the time :-)

(I hate the strike through format on these blogs.)

I ~~think it’s great~~ know what you mean.

ESPN gives 24/7 coverage of it ~~every summer~~ all year.

FTFY

kauf67 - December 3, 2010 reply

True. Between Favre and LeBron James, it’s amazing that they have time to talk about anything else.

You forgot at least 3 !!!’s.

Sparhawk - December 3, 2010 reply

$2 million is all the Braves will be paying Scott Limebrick(White Sox impersonation) which is not bad at all for a setup man. He did struggle a lot in the AL so this move to the NL might be what he needs. If Scott Proctor stays healthy I think this years bullpen can be as better as last year.

AlRoBraves95 - December 4, 2010 via mobile reply

I was asking the same question about Zendejas last night.....

….he he he

Oh my god.

If I see that f***** today, I’ll kill him.

You gotta be PISSED bro

I am

but only because we lost to ASU. They’re a joke.

It’s basketball season, baby. Let’s go.

My boys beat Mich St

…so I’m with ya on that. College hoops time. My football team is looking for a new HC…friggin Canes.

Anyway…back to hoops – Kyrie. Freeeeking. Irving.

Duke looks unstoppable

Too many weapons, they are 8-10 deep. I love it!

The only thing that scares me is

their depth in the front-court. If they get into foul trouble, or even worse, an injury to either Plumlee, they’re in deep shit.

The back-court is ridiculous, though. Irving (guess they picked the wrong freshman for the 1st team all american squad, eh?), Smith, Curry, Dawkins.

Have you seen Derrick Williams on Zona play?

Best player in the country, if you go by PER.

Scott Coleman - December 3, 2010 via mobile reply

Pun intended??

haha wasn't intended

but yeah i guess

Beast Mode

[ON] off

Scott Coleman - December 3, 2010 via mobile reply

I haven't as of yet

but I’ve heard some good stuff about him.

i'm a dukie

curry isn’t that good but KINGler and hairston would be serviceable fill ins in that situation

Yeah

they’d go small with either Dawk or Curry at the 3 and move Singler to the 4.

I'll love it as long as they CRUSH the Terps this year.

+2

since they play twice this season, I believe.

Definitely

I work for UMD so any chance I can see those kids crushed I love it lol.

LMAO!!!

Is it bad to spill coffee on your keyboard?

(What’s that smell? Something’s burning)

Don’t worry, I saw a commercial where T-Pain created a sealed keyboard!

we'll upset you at least once

as we always do. stoglin and jordan williams fill it up.

15ks - December 3, 2010 reply

kyrie didn't practice all week

and puked his brains out monday and tueaday K said in the presser

he has absolutely shut down pullen and lucas. although i dont think pullen is all that good

I thought Pullen was awesome last season

but this year he’s taken a step back. As far as Irving, yeah, he blew by anybody he wanted to in those games. Just sick to think if he stays that he’ll get paired up with Austin Rivers next year.

well you guys lost to them so...

omg...

i went to georgia tech…and we lost to kennesaw state…just throwing that out there

And it wasn't close...

they kicked your butts.

His punt was the best

or if your an optomist

we packaged him with milligan and got Carlos Quentin

look at gondeee shutting me down within seconds with an update. you’re on top of things man

THAT WOULD BE AWESOME

and also totally inexplicable from the white sox side of things. A swindle of epic proportions.

Londonjoe - December 3, 2010 reply

haha i was just kindding

it’s for Linebrink though via Morossi’s twitter

Didn’t the deadline pass to add players to the 40 man roster to protect them from the rule V draft?

BravesFan - December 3, 2010 reply

Scott Linebrink

/heads for FanGraphs to look at stats

5.5. mil???

/freaking out

we better be getting cash

Is there any positional prospects involved?

we must wait and see

Doesn't look like it.

The White Sox...

have a bunch of rookie relievers on their 40 man roster…could this be for a AAA guy?

Linebrink is absurdly expensive for a reliever with his numbers

I have to assume the White Sox are paying like half the salary?

JMar99 - December 3, 2010 reply

1.5 mil of it

Wish it was twice that...

leaving room for a better 4th OF, or another arm for greater redundancy.

Would be nice

So...Scott Linebrink:

He’s durable (50+ appearances in 7 straight seasons),
is a fly ball pitcher (only a 36%GB ratio)
strikes out a few (7.84K/9)
doesn’t walk all that many (3.11BB/9)
had an ERA and FIP in the 4.00-5.00 range the last 3 years, but was pitching in Chicago.

Decent move….as long as the White Sox are paying some of his salary.

agreed

I think we’ll see an ERA and FIP in the 3.00 to 3.50 range. Getting out of US Cellular Field should do him wonders.

On a positive note, he’s been a setup guy for like 5 years now. He’ll be a solid replacement for Saito.

And Saito wasn’t all that cheap either…

3 mil with incentives I think

And he’s one and done, contract expiring in 2011…

I'm sure they are, and if so...

I love the move. I’d rather not have to overpay for the RP’s out there. This guy was nasty before he hit Chicago, and I’m sure the return to the NL will help his ratios.

This is a horrible move if no money is coming to the Braves

But I have to believe that Wren made this deal work financially or he wouldn’t have done it.

agreed

If we’re paying him, say $3MM next year, then it looks like a good deal for a solid setup man on the cheap.

Fatvirus - December 3, 2010 reply

dont know alot about him

seems like a good move for the Bravos, a good solid move, no this move isn’t a game changer but its good

bravesfan1047 - December 3, 2010 reply

this guys numbers

were real good with the padres and have since taken a dip with the white sox
hopefully he benefits from a move back to the NL

The last pitcher we got from the Whitesox turned out alright for us.

ain't that the truth

+1

is flowers their opening day C this year?

I think he is

unless they acquire someone. They said he struggled at the dish in AAA last season. Hope he does well for them.

I think they got pierzynski back

Dunno if hes starting. Havent paid much attention to him in a while. He might be a backup now.

Doghnut - December 3, 2010 reply

Pierzynski is a free agent. Everything is looking like Flowers will be the opening day starting catcher for the White Sox. As for him struggling, I’ve heard that he made some adjustments in his swing during last season, trying to clean up some holes for his rookie season.

dlkinser86 - December 3, 2010 reply

the white sox definitely re-signed pierzynski…
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/white-sox-to-sign-aj-pierzynski.html

My apologies. I guess that is what I get for just listening to a white sox fan. Don’t even know there own team.

I was kind hoping Flowers would get a chance at the starting gig.

dlkinser86 - December 3, 2010 reply

Morosi reported

#Braves receive cash in the Linebrink trade. Not sure how much yet.

So that’s reassuring at least

Gotta love getting Cash

extremely versatile – can play anywhere on the diamond.

Question:

Is there more Molina’s or Cash’s in the game right now??

Cash. I think one of the Molina’s retired.

The Cash’s have a history of playing for the Yankees.

MBL1 - December 3, 2010 reply

yeah i think they've had

over 200 mil Cash’s in their historic existence

Jeter/Mo

Mo – 2 @ 30 mil
Jeter – they upped the dollars, not quite sure about years.

Enjoy the next 2, maybe 3 seasons, Yanks fans, because you’re going to have an old folks home established in 2012-13.

i just saw the Sox offered Mo a 2 @ 30 haha

1.5 mil

could be a really good move if the Braves are paying him under 3 million of the 5.5 he’s owed. If more than that… they could have done better.

I don’t like it at all.

Why?

blitzerlover - December 3, 2010 reply

1. Why do we need him?
2. That’s a lot of money to pay to a reliever who isn’t really an impact player
3. We have at least 2 offensive holes that we need to fill first
4. What does he do besides “bring a veteran presence” to a team full of veteren presence and reliable bullpen arms?

Unless the Sox throw in at least $4M, we are paying too much.

Why do the offensive holes have to be filled first?

I’m not sure how the order matters.

Seriously, #3 there is about as asinine...

as the poster who kept crying about the Uggla deal because as he said, if we waited we might be able to land Megan Fox.

Because now we have $4M less to spend…

I think this deal all really depends on how much cash the Sox are paying. We don’t necessarily need him, but another solid bullpen arm couldn’t hurt. Plus it’s not like we gave up anything huge in Cofield.

I don’t think its really fair to not like this deal just because there are other holes to fill. This doesn’t really affect the ability to fill any of those holes.

blitzerlover - December 3, 2010 reply

why don't we need him?

i don’t think Wags is going to be back
We got a sample of Kimbrel(though i love him)
Venters arm fell of last Tuesday
EOF was a walking DL man last year
PeMo has gotten alot of criticism ( though i love him as well)

what veteran presence is our team full of?

in the pen i mean

Why does it need to be in the ’pen?

because they are practically their own unit

they work together, they play together more than with the rest of the team.. AND

WHATS MORE

the point of the veteran is to be able to share what it was like to be there in the situations the rookies are going through.. a veteran third basement hardly has shit to say to a reliever

this!
And: to me, the presence of Wagner last year was likely hugely important to Venters and Kimbrel – although absolutely not subject to saberquantification.

1- Because he’s a quality bullpen arm, and we’re a baseball team that can use such things.
2- Agreed although “impact player” is bullshii.
3- Timing of acquisitions is irrelevant between now and February
4- “reliable bullpen arms” is certainly a debatable statement, and as for what he does, see #1.

1 – We don’t need him
2 – How is “impact player” bullshit?
3 – Not when operating on a budget, and we now have $4M less to spend on a CF/3B/1B
4 – Who in our pen was unreliable last year? And to the second part, why do we need him?

We could use some more relievers...

Kimbrel is unproven with proven control issues. O’Flaherty is solid, but may not be more than a LOOGY. Venters had a great rookie year, but can he keep it up and does his arm fall off? Moylan has gotten worse in key components (more hittable, more walks, etc), so that’s suspect. Proctor is definitely suspect, as is Martinez. Marek, etc are rookies and also unproven.

Last year is not next year, and after losing Saito and Wagner, in addition to above, we’ll just agree to disagree on the team’s “need” to add to the bullpen.

And Linebrink is the perfect guy without any questionmarks whatsoever, and is totally worth the ~~$4M~~ $3M he’s going to cost. He immediately makes our bullpen go from very good to very very good.

Best case scenario, our bullpen would be very good...

but if you don’t see the possibility that just Kimbrel, Venters, Proctor, EOF, Moylan, Martinez, and the guys coming up from AA and AAA could have turned into disaster, then your eyes are closed.

And Linebrink makes it alllll better.

Actually...

he is a good pitcher, so yes, he does make it better.

He solves our terrible bullpen problem.

I’m glad FW made this move. We probably would have blown every single lead we got once our atrocious bullpen got into the game.

Seriously, our ’pen was terrible, just terrible.

I say we don’t stop. We should probably trade Prado for Lidge and Freeman for Hoffman. By god, we are going to bolster this sorry excuse for a pen, if it’s the last thing we do!

Cause that's what I've said...

and you’re not being a complete douchenozzle at all.

haha rediculous

What evidence do you have that Linebrink is a good pitcher?

His career numbers?

Try again.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=564&position=P

OK then...

I looked again, they didn’t change. 3.50 career ERA, in almost 550 games, over 600 innings, career K/9 of 7.84, BB/9 of 3.11, FIP of 4.14. I stand corrected, he’s horrible. But a helluva lot better than your favorite #3 starter.

hahaha

dunnytwogloves - December 3, 2010 reply

A 4.14 career FIP is pretty average for an RP.

Is a 3.50 era?

you cherry picked one number out of there, and use it to say he’s just average, and not a good relief arm?

That’s about a run every 3rd IP. For a reliever, that means he’s giving up runs every 3 appearances.

I don't look at ERA

But his K rates are good, his walk rates are on that thin line between barely adequate and disaster-city, and his GB rates are horrifying.

Put it all together and you get his FIP, which is pretty average.

he pitches to flyballs

which is why h was a stupid pickup for the whitesox.. but with no guys that are flyball pitchers in our pen, i am sure he could be useful

Pitching to flyballs, as you call it, is not a useful trait. It’s like saying we need to add a hitter who takes called strikes, because we don’t have a lot of guys right now who take called 3rd strikes.

thats simply not true

some hitters are prone to popups, and the stuff some guys throw makes guys hit more flyballs..

obviously its dangerous with homerun hitters, but with other guys that have a tendency to pop up, a flyball pitcher can be valuable..

werent they calling vazquez one of those?

no i could be talking out of my ass here, but when looking at his FIP, isnt the fact that he pitched in a park notorious for being a HR park, make it a bit sketchy…would xFip be more appropriate here. I doi realize that doesnt paint that much of a better picture, and when you look at his career nbrs the xFIP isnt any more useful bc he pitched in San Diego and theoretically the time in a park that depresses HR and a park that increases HR balances out to neutral (approximately).

And his BB/9 is all over the place is that normal for a RP…If he can pitch like he did last year he would be a decent pitcher in ATL, a place that should bring down some of his HR nbrs.

Overall I think this is a ho-hum deal, not that big of a deal.

Yeah, xFIP may be a better measure for Linebrink since it normalizes his HRs to account for his primary two park effects (Petco and Cell). But I still am not loving a 4+ xFIP guy at the back of the pen. Our high leverage RPs should really be in the low 3s.

Yakker - December 5, 2010 reply

no matter the measure it tells the same story, i guess.

Swo12bv - December 5, 2010 reply

Logic apparently is not on the docket today, good sir.

are you talking about your rant above?

And you have reduced yourself to comparing counting stats of relievers and SP.

No, I haven't...

the last bit was a throw away comment, a poke in the eye if you will, since you’ve had a few yourself today.

EOF isn’t a LOOGY. He handled righties just as good as lefties except his walk rate was elevated

Blech

Hate it too. Linebrink is a mediocre RP who makes way too much. And we threw in a live arm?

Hate it, hate it, hate it. We shouda signed Peralta or Cormier or some other cheap RP arm instead of blowing $4M on Linebrink.

I agree on the price tag – too much. Almost every reliever isn’t worth much because the position is so volatile. But I think he’ll have a decently good year all things considered.

I don’t think a 4+ FIP is a “decent year” for an RP, which is what Linebrink will likely put up.

Well I’ll admit. I’m cautiously optimistic on almost every trade. I like to think that the Braves drop some magic dust on their players and they perform (for at least the first year – McLouth needs another coating though).

Others are routinely grouchy over trades. It makes for a nice discussion at least.

Cofield is a decent minor arm, but he wasn’t super special. Plus we have more relievers in the minors ready in case. Plus the Braves seem to do a good job on evaluating who to get rid of in trades, minus a few instances.

I’ve learned over the years to give FW a lot of leeway, but I just don’t see this as a good move. I don’t know enough about Cofield to really care about giving him up. Seems like the made the talent assessment that he couldn’t pass the AA Magic Kool Aid test or whatever Sickels calls it, and the Braves have done extremely well over the years making those assessments.

What I do care about is spending a large part of our remaining payroll on an RP who clearly seems to be at best league average. And yeah, I went pretty batsh*t crazy over the McLouth deal and the Yunel deal (sigh…) at the time too. Those were much larger blunders, of course. This one doesn’t cripple the team, but it could have an impact that’s felt both at the winter meetings (taking on some salary in a deal is probably off the table) as well as firming up our need to use scrubs to fill out the 2011 roster. That makes me sad.

I agree about the money. I would prefer to have gotten the “veteran reliever” cheaper, but who wouldn’t?

That said, I still can’t think that Wren would ditch all our remaining salary availability on 1 reliever. He’s gotta have more moves open. He seems to always take a decent chunk of “emergency relief funds” into the season for the midseason trade.

I don’t understand how you can hate the financial aspects of the deal and still be happy about the move. The money is the whole problem.

Well, I don’t like it, but I don’t hate it. Now, maybe I will once the season starts and this move proves to hamstring us terribly. Like I said, I’m fairly optimistic and I’m waiting to see if this is followed up by anything.

Well, time will of course tell. But I just have trouble compartmentalizing money and performance into separate buckets.

How was McLouth a blunder?...

Cost of him aside, we gave up nothing of value to get him. Morton has crapped out, Gorkys stalled out in AA, and the other arm may or may not ever get above AA.

I think we could have gotten a similar arm for cheaper, if not two for the same price, but that aside, I think it’s a good move. Just, again, wish he came at a lower cost.

"Cost of him aside"

You just answered your own question.

Got it, you felt we were giving scraps for...

someone’s bad contract. Considering how he’s played, that can be understood, although he wasn’t that expensive last year (at least not if he played as he did for us in 09, let alone the likely never again height of his 08 campaign). And if he rebounds, is a reasonable cost this year. But I can understand your feeling that he’s not going to be worth near the money.

Yeah, and I do like Morton too, although that’s really secondary.

We bought high on McLouth, played him out of position, and paid him more than he’s worth. We’re stuck with him, and I actually think he will “bounce back” in 2011 a bit, but will still not justify the amount we’re paying him.

paid him more than he’s worth.

I’m pretty sure we didn’t give him that contract, but I could be wrong.

No, you're right.

The Pirates signed him to the contract he’s currently under.

Jake Humphrey - December 3, 2010 reply

I'm pretty sure that's not his point...

while the Pirates gave him the contract, we are the ones who have paid, and will pay, a significant bulk of the money owed because of it.

If his point is

that was a bad trade then that is wrong

Braves24 - December 4, 2010 reply

The trade in a vacuum is not a bad one in the sense that we overpayed for the man we acquired, but the decision to MAKE that trade was a bad one. It has nothing to do with losing Morton and company and everything to do with getting negative value from McLouth while shelling out millions to do so.

P.S.

Don’t give up on Charlie Morton. If healthy, he’s likely to be a league-average starter next year, which is more than one can say for McLouth.

Nate

and his $6mil laugh at you

Is it wrong

That I imagined Nate sitting in an airplane in his Braves uni, with a GEICO-style bundle of cash next to him, laughing?

It’s only wrong if his cash doesn’t have the little GEICO googley-eyes on it.

Disagree on Morton...

but fair enough. He has stuff, I’m just doubtful he ever puts it together. That’s what we saw from him here, and it’s been the same in Pitt. Maybe he has one or two decent seasons several years down the line, like a Davies. But I don’t see Morton ever posting multiple strong seasons, and probably ends his career with an ERA well over 5.

We’ll see. There’s a lot in his favor on the sabre-side of ther equation. If he can ever get his luck-stats back to the average (or even get a little lucky), he could be a solid MLB starter.

His 4-something FIPs are suggestive of a guy who has talent, and lefties who throw 90+ with his stuff are hard to come by.

Morton is a righty...

or is that last line referring to Locke, with the rest on Morton?

My bad

Still, I ’d take the under on 4.75 ERA for Morton next year.

From watching limited Pirates games the one thing I noticed about Morton was that he could dial up the K’s but he lacked the ability to make it through the order the 3rd time. I still think he has a future if he can just figure a few things out.

Jeff Locke was pretty damn good in 57 innings at AA this year. 3.59 era, nearly a K per inning and a 4.67 SO/BB ratio. He’s probably a top 100 prospect at this point.

No, he's not a top 100 prospect...

he regained a lot of value this past year, but it’ll take at least one more strong season before he can get to a top 100.

I would think he’s a fringe top 100 guy but good results with good stuff from a LHSP has him in that area. I read some reports of the Pirates giving him an opportunity to win a rotation spot next spring, so if he’s not top 100 now, he may not be eligible in 2012

jeg - December 4, 2010 reply

Hmmmm... Uhhh... Why?

This deal doesn’t make a ton of sense to me, yet. Really underwhelming numbers. Before signing with the chi sox he was a valuable reliever but has since had two mediocre, at best, seasons. With arms still on the FA market, this move seems like it’s a little too early. On the flip side, with the chisox stadium being known as a hitters park his numbers could be a little inflated.
BUT:
In Frank Wren I trust. Consider me a slightly miffed, but, who am I? Hopefully the sox ate some $$$!!

murph35 - December 3, 2010 via mobile reply

The last trade we made with them worked out well for us. No doubt the switch back to the NL and a more pitcher friendly park will bring his numbers back to SDesque levels.

no way the park inflated it that much!

Our bullpen arms are not as reliable with the departures of Saito and Wagner. Add in Proctor, Beachy, Martinez, and Kimbrel and there’s lots of questions about how these guys are going to react to a full season in the bigs.

Linebrink replaces Saito as the 8th inning guy. Our late innings will probably go Venters-Linebrink-Kimbrel…

$1.5 mil

What about it?

that's how much we got

So $4M owed?

A little high, but not a big deal.

it sort of is…thats our remaining budget.

again...depends on the KK situation

Plus, I have a feeling FW is going to be pretty active at the winter meetings. JJ or DLowe may be gone by this time, next week.

Yeah...

I’m pretty sure the 25 man roster is not already set.

I just think

after Lee, there’s a huge drop-off on available starters. KC is dangling Greinke and they’re getting bites on trades. I think if a team wants to make a move on JJ or DLowe, FW would have to listen.

please be

Derek Lowe

that would be a big mistake

we would have to get a real star centerfielder who we didnt have to pay much for it to be worht it.. and that still leaves us with a starting pitching hole at the start of the season

DOB

Newest #Brave Linebrink allowed .203 avg (15-for-74) w/ runners in scor pos in ’10 with ChiSox, inc .083 (1-for-12) with the bases loaded

That’s always nice. He also said this

Took #Braves a few years, but they got their man, who was an elite setup guy with Padres when Braves wanted him about 5 years ago

Interesting

Braves are nothing if not persistent.

so they've gotten their men Mather and Linebrink

is Zumaya next?

Ken Griffey Jr. most likely.

lol

MBL1 - December 3, 2010 reply

Free Julio Franco!!

from the Nursery Home?

He still rakes

but he’d have to bring a walker to the plate.

Well, at least his salary is supplemented by social security.

LOL +1

Damn.

Sparhawk - December 3, 2010 reply

Maybe we'll finally get ARod around the year 2032

The Yankees would love to give us ARod right now.

And we’d be happy to take him, as long as we get that hot prospect Cash in the deal too. And his brother, both cousins, and brother-in-law with the same name. Basically, A-Rod and a lot of Cash.

Now I hate this move even more

I really hope Wren and Co. didn’t fixate on Linebrink because of his shiny luck- and Petco-induced ERAs from the early 2000s…

they did

UGH

mlbbowman

A Major Leauge source said the #Braves will receive $1.5 million from the White Sox to help account for Linebrink’s $5.5 mil. salary.

Not bad if he puts up his San Diego numbers next year.

$4M set up man

Hopefully he returns to his NL form

I’m beginning to think that the Braves have more money than we all believe. With a few more holes to fill, this deal wouldn’t really make sense if we only had the reported $3-5M left

The remaining holes are probably going to be journeymen IF or OF help…I doubt FW is spending more than $2MM from here on out…

like willie bloomquist

Depends on what happens with KK

If they can get rid of his salary, or a portion of it, then FW would have some flexibility to spend more.

I got a dollar to pitch in…

Attention all TC'ers

the Braves need donations to acquire a CF’er. All checks payable to TBuzz.

We can probably put together 83 bucks.

that would land the CF'er

on my cousins little league team

Kid’s UZR/150 was off the charts

14.0 WAR?

Cuz if not, he’s only getting $81.50.

i bet we dont sig a single other player

i bet hicks or diory will be the back up middle infielder, and that young or the CF from the Indianz AAA team will be our back up CF..
+ mather
+ Conrad
+Hinske

and there is our 5 man bench

we do not need more from our middle infielder than to be extremely sound defensively.

the rest of the bullpen spots will be competed for

Linebrink for $4M

Sounds alright to me.

Scott Coleman - December 3, 2010 via mobile reply

Justin is going to be pissed

Where's Mastermike?

Buying a Heyward jersey

I lol'd

Again?

Isn’t he always?

Nope.

wow, this trade went from meh to dumb real quick

why are we playing linebrink four mill? he was worth $400K last season. think we could call up someone and get the same value and NOT pay them 4 mill

His contract expires in 2011. Condiser him a fat American version of Takeshi Saito…

nothing like a good, fat american

He and Ken Ray would have made a great Offensive Line…

don’t forget ray king…

say...

that’s a lot like my avatar

GeneParmesan - December 3, 2010 reply

he’s the best

tcstew - December 3, 2010 reply

except saito was pretty awesome

and linebrink is pretty meh. saito earned his keep last season with his performance while linebrink was grossly overpaid given his contract

That was last year, Linebrink could have a better season given the easier league and a better pitcher’s park. Plus McDowell seems to do a bang up job with his pitchers.

i am hoping mcdowell and mccann

can do more with him than the park and league

Agreed.

If Cooper couldn’t “fix” him, not sure McDowell can do much more. Cooper’s pretty certainly in the Top 3 pitching coaches in MLB right now.

But he was still solid there...

so hopefully the differences in home park and opposing lineups can see his numbers improve.

Linebrink wasn’t “solid” in Chicago, he was mediocre. Huge difference.

I guess...

semantics iyam though. He wasn’t bad in Chicago is the point. He gave up too many HRs, but his FIP, xFIP, ERA, K/9, BB/9, etc weren’t that high and were “solid” depending on how one defines the term.

You should probably post a list of names that proves your point.

is that a giant metal dildo?

The image called it a ...

douche head.

Solid, not bad, whatever you want to call it, I don’t think a 4.50 xFIP is very good for a reliever. I would take that from a 5th starter, but as a high-leverage RP arm, the xFIP should be much lower.

yea

You can’t have an all-rookie pen and expect to win, especially in the playoffs.

this

that

and uh

well played

and another thing Vonnegut...

an "all-rookie pen" ?

yeah… who in our pen is a “rookie?” kimbrel. that’s it. not like an ENTIRE SEASON is enough time to get experience, right?

Martinez as well...

And Marek, if he makes the BP (pretty unlikely now).

-C

forgot about him

but when a rookie is being used primarily in a mop up role experience isn’t really of utmost importance

but yeah

4 mill for a guy fangraphs.com had worth $400k last year is a way better idea than giving a shot to, say, marek . a 27 yr old who had 1.43 ERA and 1.13 WHIP in AAA and a K/9 of 10.01. that 3.6 mill for experience was very well spent

This.

Talent is more valuable than “experience.” Who would you rather have at the plate, Heyward or Greg Norton?

Horrible comparison...

Even though I don’t really like the price tag of this move.

-C

Trying to make a point, but...

how about who would you rather have close out the 9th, Trevor Hoffman or Craig Kimbrel?

If Kimbrel walks guys like he did in June than Hoffman…

You're really poor at these comparisons.

Hoffman is nine years older than Linebrink, and Kimbrel’s talent is significantly greater than any of our minor-league middle relief options that could fill this spot.

While I’m also a big fan of talent, walking into 2011 with your most experienced bullpen arm being Scott Proctor is asking for trouble. Moylan and EOF are still arbitration guys, so it’s hard to consider them capable of being the veterans that young relievers look to…they should still be deferring to more experienced vets themselves.

I hate the price tag, I don’t necessarily love the player selected to fill this role, but I disagree with the notion that the bullpen can’t be helped by an injection of experience.

-C

Pretty sure our rookies in the pen did quite well for us – it was the offense that let us down.

Could’ve sworn it was defense

someguy1 - December 4, 2010 reply

Look at the scores of the games – every single one was 1-run, and none more than 5 runsscored.

Defense only bit us in one game (and really on ly one player)

http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/schedule/_/name/sf/san-francisco-giants

I think our offense did well, considering the pitching we faced in that series. Can you reasonably expect any offense to put up 5+ runs on any of those pitchers?

someguy1 - December 6, 2010 reply

Check out what they did to the Phillies and Rangers

someguy1 - December 6, 2010 reply

someguy1 - December 6, 2010 reply

I'm not sure what Wren was thinking on this one.

First Mather, then Proctor, now Linebrink? That’s over $5 million not very well spent.

That remains to be seen. Proctor and Linebring both have the capability of being shutdown relievers. Mather is at least versatile.

I think it's pretty safe to assume Proctor will be useless.

He’s only had one good year in his entire career, and it wasn’t exactly shutdown. He couldn’t even get AAA hitters out last year and showed no signs of improvement.

And Linebrink was good…5 years ago.

Proctor was coming off surgery, everyone knows the second year is where you see what the pitcher can actually do.

Hudson disagrees.

But Proctor just isn’t very good to begin with. He’s a career 4.50 ERA guy, who strikes out a decent amount (7.8 K/9) but walks too many (4.0 BB/9) and doesn’t limit home runs very well.

He makes $700K. If he sucks he’ll go the way of Chris Resop…

It's not much money, but it is a waste.

Especially when we could use that $750K to sign a guy like Tony Gwynn Jr. or Hairston.

Hudson’s a bad example to use here. He was a top starting pitcher before his injury, and was incredibly durable. Linebrink is a relief lifer.

ok, then how about moylan?

when he came back he was absolutely lights out the 2nd half of his FIRST year

Proctor had the surgery, not Linebrink

Whoops - Linebrink on the brain apparently.

everyone knows this?

if in doubt, cite the hypothetical masses

Not a stupid idea to acquire a veteran in a walk year though…

But it is a stupid idea to pay guaranteed money to a pitcher who isn’t as near as good as our younger, cheaper, more talented alternatives.

Other than Venters, EOF, and Moy…the young arms are not proven over a whole year of MLB competition.

And Scott Proctor is proven

he’s proven that he just isn’t very good. I completely understand wanting some veteran guys in the bullpen, but I don’t want a veteran who can’t pitch very well.

you say some of the most absurd things

“capability of being shutdown relievers” what does that even mean? scott proctor was NEVER a shutdown reliever. his best season he posted a 3.52 ERA and has a career ERA of 4.46. even if he suddenly reverts back to performance FIVE years ago he still won’t be shutdown, just pretty good. he spent the entire last season in the minors pretty much and wasn’t effective. so i don’t know what capability you’re referring to.

linebrink likewise hasn’t been effective for a similar length of time (5-6 years). what makes you think suddenly they are going to harness the power of the chi or whatever and become good again? capability is a word people throw around when they have nothing to substantiate their claims.

Don’t underestimate our needs for defense, that’s what Mather is there for.

not to mention he can play corner IF and all 3 OF spots

what?

i have never heard he could play centerfield, and anytime we need a corner infielder, it wont be him!

prado could move to third, or Hinske could move to 1st.. (so could prado)

Mather has to prove better than these two CFs comming to ST if he wants to be a go to sub. Otherwise, they will come into center and move mclouth to left.

Mather is only in when multiple subs are being made as far as i can tell.. and to be honest, id rather it be conrad (or we could let mather play the first 5 innings haha)

How do we know it’s not well spent? The season hasn’t started yet.

MBL1 - December 3, 2010 reply

Then I guess you could say it was ill-advised

Will the Uggla trade end up being ill-advised if he were to tear his ACL in ST?

was that an analogy?

i don’t see how it makes sense. he’s saying it was ill advised to spend 4 mill on a guy that was pretty mediocre last season. how does that relate to dan uggla getting injured?

No, that would be "shitty luck"

You can’t say ill-advised when it hasn’t happened yet…

?

I’m not sure you understand the meaning of ill-advised.

Ill-advised means doing something that is high-risk, low-reward…

not really

just that you probably shouldn’t have done it

Educate me then…

I think we’re saying the same thing, and neither of them apply to Joe Mather or Scott Linebrink…

The winter meetings are gonna be boring this year. Slow down Frank!

10-4 - December 3, 2010 reply

I don't think so

I think he’s going to field a bunch of phone calls/offers on our SP’s. Everyone’s looking for it, we have it. Let the bidding begin!

We can’t take on a big salary player anymore. Our SP depth would only get us an established position player or RP…or position player prospects.

The only exception I can think of here is if someone wants to take McLouth and a stud prospect for a stud OFer…

or if somehow, someone has a brain lapse and takes KK.

If FW would somehow figure out a way to put McLouth and KK in the same trade, and actually save us some money…

He should immediately retire and let’s get his bust ready is Cooperstown!

Maybe Wren will hold meetings letting the other GMs eat some special brownies. Then trick them into giving us Pujols + salary relief.

Just ask the Marlins...LMAO!!

I think Wren might’ve added that to his negotiation toolshed this winter.

we have 2 SP really to trade when you think about it

minor isn’t going anywhere. kawakami is going for cash. and beachy won’t yield that a high return (unless we package him with some solid prospects). i don’t expect any big splashes but i could be wrong

We do need to unload those guys so that there are some innings later on in 2011 for Teheran, and Delgado possibly

well besides minor

we need to unload KK, and if the price is right beachy. i personally wouldn’t give up beachy unless we were winning the deal because i think he deserves more time to show what he’s got. i think he could be a solid #3 with a longshot upside as a 2

Taking out Huddy and DLowe from the list…we still have 7-8 bonafide potential SPs on the horizon (including Medlen coming back in 2012)

well

you can group it like this, IMO:

not moving: hanson, minor, teheran and probably delgado

gone: KK

stronger trade candidates: beachy, vizcaino, medlen

possible if the price is right: jurrjens

Oh shoot...

I’m probably going to feel as terrible if we lose Medlen as much as the masses on this site when we lost Matty Diaz haha…

i love medlen

but he would be at least possible trade candidate along with jj if he comes back healthy. in ~2 years our rotation would just be too crowded: hanson-teheran-minor-jj-delgado-medlen-beachy?-vizcaino?

so it would at least be a possibility

i can just see medlen and jurjens in the same trade

frontlining someone elses starting rotation in a couple years with eras around 3

we need to unload KK Lowe

tbuzz

thats exactly why we should be waiting to make a mid season trade!

this has to be a precursor to something else…this move standing by itself makes very little sense.

heh, like what

we’re going to flip a $4 mill reliever?

no I doubt that, I mean either ditching Kawakami or a trade involving Moylan, Lowe, Jurrgens or any player with a salary greater than 2million.

I like him more than Farnsworth haha

SuperHeyward - December 3, 2010 reply

They seemed pretty pumped about ditching Linebrink over there at the South Side Sox

AaronR - December 3, 2010 reply

Were they pumped about resigning ManRam?

As well they should be

This one might be a little payback for stealing Javy from them 2 years ago.

Oh well, you win some, you lose some.

/sarcasm.

Really though. Peavy coming off injury, trying to deal Floyd, Buerhle is average, Danks, and Jackson. Now they have let go of jerks, Putz, linebrink, and threets. But they did sign Adam Dunn! And will prob get Konerko back too.

murph35 - December 3, 2010 via mobile reply

It's because of their plethora of pitching

/sarcasm.

Really though. Peavy coming off injury, trying to deal Floyd, Buerhle is average, Danks, and Jackson. Now they have let go of jerks, Putz, linebrink, and threets. But they did sign Adam Dunn! And will prob get Konerko back too.

murph35 - December 3, 2010 via mobile reply

Being lazy...

Anybody know the rough figure of how much $ we have left?

Before this deal, I read in multiple places that we had between $3-5 million to spend. So it looks like we basically used that all up?

that's why i don't understand the trade

seems like since we spent the money for a reliever we are going to look internally for OF alternates and let them battle it out in ST.

2012 payroll looks better though…

I do think that the 3-5 million was not accounting for KK going away. If he does, we should have more to spend. I am assuming FW is confident that he can make KK go away since he is willing to pay Linebrink so much.

mj10catchit10 - December 3, 2010 reply

Wren is no idiot

How do WE know how much money the Braves have available? In fact, I’ll go a step further, how does anyone outside the Braves organization know how much money we have available? We hear a report here and there, but really, does anyone have an actual number outside the organization??

Wren has never let the cat out of the bag when it comes to trade rumors, most, if not all, of his trades/signings happen out of nowhere, why would he be any different when it comes to his financial flexibility?

we don't know, but there is a thing called deductive reasoning

we’ve been with liberty long enough to see how the payroll has fluxuated from year to year. these estimations are built upon what the payroll has been the previous years, the increases we have seen, and that’s why it goes from a ceiling to a floor. it isn’t that hard to figure out how much we potentially have to spend after we have a had several years to use as a model.

Liberty took ownership in 2007

But this is the first year they’ve made the playoffs under their ownership, with that said we must assume that the team made more money this year for Liberty than any other, so I would like to think the payroll would have some more flexibility to increase.

well

if you look it up, the average revenue ownership profits from hosting an NLDS game is around $1 mill. So we received roughly 2 mill for those 2 games we played. revenue is much more significant if you make it all the way to the WS. you’d make roughly $12 mill if you played the minimum number of games in your home park, and could make as much as about $30 mill if you went the distance in every game and had HF advantage throughout.

I'm talking the whole season in general

We were in 1st or 2nd place the whole year, that had to help attendance numbers at least a little

exactly what we will do and we will be fine

i am positive (and i have said it wayy a lot on this site haha) that one f the 2 CF AAA stars comming to try out will make the team, and i think irs pretty reasonable of frank wren to expect the better to be solid for us.

And all we need in the middle infield is a great defender.

when we need a bat at 1st we have hinske, when we need a bat at third we have prado or when we need a bat at second, conrad can even bring a bat to third or second.. we just need a star defender and there is no short stop with a good bat that isnt starting somewhere

$4 million for Linebrink???

What. The. Fuck. Wren.

Way to blow all of our remaining funds on a 34 year old with a 4+ ERA.

Maybe he felt bad for stealing Uggla so this is his way of righting the karma?

Uggly, uggly deal. Any power arm from AAA from around the league could put up his numbers for the minimum.

ATLandUNC - December 3, 2010 reply

This.

We have so many better in house options for the minimum…it just doesn’t make sense.

Don’t worry, they’ll get their shots. Regrettably injuries happen.

Too true with pitchers

hopefully it won’t Venters or Kimbrel going down

Good thing with Venters is that Bobby isn’t here. That may save his arm a few innings… but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him surpass last years innings. Yuck.

Go look at his NL numbers before jumping to bold conclusions on the guy

Remember what Javy Vazquez was able to do going from the AL to the NL

Plus park effects.

Being out of U.S. Cellular will help, but

his ERA+, which is adjusted for park effects, has been perfectly league average the past couple years. So really, he’s just your league average reliever.

Could do worse. The money is the worst part of this trade regrettably.

Definitely

if he was only $1-2 million it wouldn’t be bad. I’m also a little worried that since he is considered a “set up guy” that we will use him in the 8th inning over Venters, which would be a crime

I like it

Lets venters and moylan and EOF patrol the 5-7 innings.

someguy1 - December 4, 2010 reply

Which means theyll hardly see the field

Probably a bad idea since those three are prob 3 of our top 4 relievers.

Doghnut - December 4, 2010 reply

Eh

I think Linebrink in the eighth will be a good fit, at least for the first half. If Linebrink doesn’t hold well, then venters can take over the eighth/ninth and Moylan can resume the 7th.

What I like is it kind of allows for Venters and Moylan to get a rest for the first half of the season. Basically the same reason you don’t like it, lol.

I’d rather work Linebrink like a mule (like Jonny last year) and have Kimbrel, Venters, and Moylan available for high pressure situations (in the order of importance, not chronologically).

I’m sure that our new skip will work it out, but I think he’ll be good to shoulder the majority of eighth innings with 3+ run difference in the score.

someguy1 - December 4, 2010 reply

that's the whole point

if we were paying him closer to value it wouldn’t be a big deal. considering we probably don’t have that much left i don’t understand why we’re paying him 4 mill

Sure. If he were making the league minimum, no one would have a problem with him, because then he’d be just like the eleventy billion other RP arms that the Braves could throw out there. But he’s chewing up a valuable 5-7% of the ATL payroll, perhaps the last 5-7%.

Gotta think Wren has a master plan and that allows for more money/moves to appear.

Sure. But even still, why spend $4M on mediocre when there are so many other guys available out there? Money is always a fixed resource in baseball, and Wren just spent more of it than he had to needlessly.

The easy answer? He felt compelled to do it. Other than that, I have no explanation and we know Wren will send a colorful, flowery address at how amazing this acquisition is.

Sadly I wish I had the ability to know what all the discussions leading up to this were like.

You’re right, I’m sure. Wren’s not an idiot, so he probably has a very good reason why he felt like spending $4M for Linebrink makes sense. But I just don’t see it.

the biggest thing about the park change is that he is a flyball pitcher

which actually might be why we wanted him

because we have so many groundball pitchers, we could definitely use him against hitters witha flyball weakness, and we dont have a guy like that—not one

yeah but

how many times as a reliever do you face the pitcher in the NL. yeah, some DHs will be better than the PH you face – but the difference is more negligible than you think

pierzynskirules - December 3, 2010 reply

Numbers from 3 years ago for a guy who's 34

Don’t really get me too excited

ATLandUNC - December 3, 2010 reply

i hope you guys have fun

Always do.

pierzynskirules - December 3, 2010 reply

with linebrink i mean lol

I was on to you lol.

pierzynskirules - December 3, 2010 reply

really now

220/334/434

His NL number are much better than AL numbers

And the Ted is a pitchers park, similar to Petco, so I think he’ll be fine. US Cellular is a hitters park, so I think before jumping to conclusions on how he’ll do with the Braves we should consider that.

I’ll remind you what Vazquez was able to do coming from the Sox to the Braves.

...

comparing starter to reliever. relievers don’t face pitchers all too often. starters do. and the nl central isn’t exactly the al east, where vazquez came from.

NL central and Al east??

It was a trade with the White Sox, Al central. To the braves, NL east

i meant AL central

my apologies.

my point was, he’s a reliever coming from the al central and you were comparing that to a starter coming from the al east. starters face DHs in the AL, and then pitchers in the NL. a reliever isn’t going to face all too often, they’re going to face a PH. so i don’t think the league change has as much to do with it

Well, that's really the only thing we can compare

Everyone asks for numbers in an argument, so the numbers are what we bring up. Maybe i’m too much of an optimist, but I believe him going to a pitcher friendly park, similar to Petco, from a hitter friendly park in US cellular, could do the man some good.

you can compare it

but i’m saying it is probably incorrect to draw the conclusion that since he was good in the NL and worse in the AL it is due to the league difference, when he wouldn’t be facing pitchers in the NL regardless. could have to do with other things. park factors were mentioned. total IP could be taking a toll on his arm. etc.

i just don’t think switching leagues applies as much to relievers as it does starters, and the effect was even more pronounced with vazquez since he was going from the best offensive division in baseball

4 million

Bring Diaz back for 2 million, then spend the remaining on one of the many available RP FA options

Linebrink

34 yr old RP with career 3.2 WAR

I swear, Gondee, you like every Braves trade initially. Quite the optimist, though I suppose that’s not a bad character trait.

wow dont make me think that way haha

Wren seems to get stuck on guys he's "targeted in the past"

Proctor
Linebrink
Uggla (the only positive one)

Its like once he’s inquired on a guy, he’s not happy until he gets them, even if its 4 years later when they have stopped producing.

ATLandUNC - December 3, 2010 reply

You could probably say that about every GM. Or at least only the Royals GM… who came from the Braves. Maybe it’s a Braves Organizational thing?

Mather too can’t forget Mather.

The Beaver?

Haha

It could be a situation where we have a top scout who really likes Linebrink, perhaps he sees something mechanical or pitch useage related that he feels can be tweaked to improve performance, and thus views Linebrink as an undervalued asset.

Not claiming that is the case here but this is a very prevalent scenario when teams seem infatuated with a player.

What’s left to get besides a defensive OFer?

TradeAndruw - December 3, 2010 reply

already have them!

2 defensive studs in center field are coming to audition.. both with 375 obps 310 avg and 35+stolen bases..one is even a switch hitter

A starting CF, a backup 3B/LF, backup 1B, utility man.

McLouth, Hinske, Hinske, Mather.

You forgot backup SS, and backup CF though.

Talk about question marks – Nate as our starting CF? With no backup plan?

Hinske playing 3B or LF every day is scary, and not in the way that makes me smile.

Hinske can platoon at 1B and spell Freeman, I guess, but if Chipper goes down, Freddie better be able to play everyday – because he would have no backup.

Can Mather play 2B/SS/3B/OF?

Yes, Mather can from reports.

The rest is just a bitch bitching.

You’re right. Nate is an All-star and we have nothing to worry about.

Chipper is the epitome of health, so we won’t have to worry about Hinske playing every day.

Freeman has proven that he is more than ready for the job, and with Chipper’s health record, we won’t have to worry about Hinske playing 3rd, so he can spell Freeman any time.

Nope, nothing to worry about at all – except that terrible bullpen. We’d better spend the rest of our budget on that. It is, after all, our glaring weakness.

Because we won't sign guys who can play that position...

nope, we won’t add a backup SS, another OF, etc. We’re going with what we got now and making no more moves until June at the earliest. Oh wait, that’s not true, well I guess you’re just running off at the mouth again huh justin?

Well, if we had open coffers, or if reports were indicating that we had more than $3-4M to spend after getting Uggla, then I woudn’t care as much.

Spending 2/3 – 1/2 of our remaining budget on a luxury when we still have needs upsets me.

serriously.. i dont see the needs you do

i dont think you are seeing the way the team will actually function.. who will play where and such.. because for one, hinske wont ever play third base before Prado, and prob not before Conrad, and probably not before mather..

what are you looking for in your backup SS? we wont find more than a defensive guy and we have that in house..

what do you expect to happen in centerfield? serriously?

where in the world did justin read hinske was going to backup chipper?

prado would move in and hinske would be in left before that..

and hinske would play LF….not that complicated…

Prado backs up Chipper, Hinske backs up Prado, thus Hinske is Chipper’s replacement in the lineup.

The Yankees, with all their money...

who do they turn to when A Rod is out? How about the Red Sox when Youklis goes down? Face it, when a team loses one of their premier players, there will be a drop off in the lineup. Whether you’re the $250m Yankees, $150m Red Sox, or the lowly $80m Braves trying to replace Chipper.

Are the Yankees expecting A-rod to go down? Are t even worried that he may not be able to play at all?

It's pretty obvious...

at his age, he’s not putting up 162 games. Neither is Jeter. And a major injury would not be out of the question. ARod has had injury problems of late.

you act like

you didnt say it as though hinske was chippers direct backup at third…

willlinn - December 4, 2010 reply

He isn’t. Prado is. Hinske replaces Cipper in the lineup though.

At this point, maybe not once the season plays out...

see last year, and a season that played out much differently than expected for several starters and backups.

You mean the roster is not frozen for April?

Nate as the starter, Young in the wings. With Nate’s salary, making another move there would be unlikely unless something falls into our laps.

Mather will be Hinske’s platooner in LF if Prado is at 3B. Hinske can spell Freeman.

Basically, we need one more bench guy that can back up SS, and that guy will likely be Diory or Hicks.

The bench certainly isn’t as deep as last season, but we had the best bench in the league last year. We’ll still have a pretty good bench this year, I can’t think of too many teams that can out-impact Ross/Hinske/Conrad at the plate. If Mather can actually perform in the majors anywhere near the production he put up in the minors, we should be pretty solid there.

-C

justinkidding right?

hinske is not our backup third basemen, prado is, and our backup centerfielder is also our backup left fielder (unless mather proves worthy of backing up 3rd and or left)

and what do u mean nate with no backup plan? we have 2 guys coming to ST that hit over 310 with obps around 375 w 35+ steals and plus defensive skills.. one is even a swtich hitter.. what do u mean no backup plan? and if that doesnt pan out, come summer, we will likely call up a starting pitcher whether it is teheran or the second of minor/beachy.. at that point we can trade one of our pitchers for a real star centerfielder..

we never had the money in the offseason to sign a star CF, nor do we have pitchers ready to fill in before the summer if we want to trade a pitcher for him.

Nate will be starting CF on opening day. There really is no way of avoiding that unless we eat a boat load of his salary or just flat out release. Probably up until mid/late May, we will know whether or not if McLouth is going to stay or go.

Or deal pitching prospects for a young, cheap starter...

and are willing to pay Nate to be the 4th OF.

but

are the Braves willing to pay 6.5 million for a fourth OF? I don’t think so

Braves24 - December 4, 2010 reply

They were willing to do so last year for a minor leaguer through the second half...

they were willing to sit $6.67m in KK being absolutely useless. So yes, if they had a better option in CF and couldn’t find a taker for the majority, if not all, of McLouth’s contract, they’d be willing to pay him what they are contractually obligated to pay him as a fourth OF.

So question, if you are so “okay” with our minor league options for relief pitching, are you not okay with the potential chance of filling our backup roles with any of our minors that could feasibly be as good as a “proven, low cost vet”? Or are you just mainly upset with the cost of it, which everyone will agree sucks. However, Wren would have had to include another minor in the deal to get more money added to the contract relief that the sox are paying.

Our current in-house options for backup infield positions have proven that they are not MLB material. Conrad everyday is terrible, Hicks can’t hit, Diory can’t hit.

OF, I am ok with Young, but only as a backup. We need a real CF, not a 4th OF (Nate) or backup.

We have no in-house options for 3B other than Prado and Hinske. Prado is our LF, and Hinske every day in LF is not a wise move, as we learned last year.

If Prado has to play 3rd and Hinske LF, who plays backup 1B? That is 3 roster changes based solely on Chipper not playing.

Call me crazy, but I’d rather have some better options.

I got news for ya...

Infante was unique. Most bench players on all 30 teams in MLB would be “terrible” if forced into everyday duty. Conrad isn’t alone in that regard, nor would that vast, vast majority of other potential bench signings be any different.

thankyou haha

so you keep your damn trade pieces instead of getting great backups so you can make a big move when you need a new starter! (in the case of an injury making osmeone a starter

what do u mean 3 roster changes for chipper not playing?

you mean 3 roster changes for chipper AND freeman not playing, and one of those 3 roster changes is simply a switch in position, not in lineup.

LEastCoastBears - December 3, 2010 reply

Not thrilled about this trade. I’m fine with the price that we gave up but not the amount of $ ($4 Milliion) that we have committed to Linebrink. Maybe the FO knows something that I don’t and believe that Linebrink will bounce back in a big way (it’s probably a given that he will bounce back a bit just being back in the NL).

His experience and possible role as the closer to start the season may make him a good trade bet mid-season (after Kimbrel is established) but I don’t think one can easily dump an overpriced reliever anymore.

No novel opinion coming here

Just another vote for not impressed. Definitely too much money. But if he pitches well it’s fine I guess.

But I’ll be disappointed if he puts up another ERA+ of 100, especially if we have a need at some point this season and Frank pleads poverty.

Even if he does work out, he’s probably still overpaid, but not by a gross amount. So, I’ll be fine as long as his ERA doesn’t start with a 4 again.

The Goche - December 3, 2010 reply

It seems to be all about the intangibles ...

DOB reporting:

"His stuff is still good," Braves general manager Frank Wren said. "He’s healthy, he’s solid, and he has [mental] makeup that’s off the charts. He had the kind of pedigree we were looking for in that role.

"We wanted a guy with some veteran leadership and a guy comfortable pitching in the last innings of a game, whether it’s the seventh, eighth or ninth."

/snip/

Wren said at the beginning of the offseason that he would look for a reliever to assume the mentor role Wagner handled so adroitly with young relievers like closer candidate Craig Kimbrel and lefty Jonny Venters.

"Scott Linebrink fit to a T what we were looking for in this role," Wren said.

Maybe we should sign Jeter then

/sarcasm

Everyone needs to sign Jeter! He’s the embodiment of a baseball player.

LOL… nah

I suppose this means you are another of the all that intangibles stuff is a load of crap gang?

Intangibles are fine

You just shouldn’t overpay for them. There are a lot of guys who have similar intangibles that would have been available through free agency and for a lower cost.

buzzdeadwax - December 3, 2010 reply

Like Hinske, he's a winner...

sign ’em up.

isn’t being a winner a load of intangibles crap?

Sarcasm fail?

not really. its just ~~amazing~~ ~~astounding~~ amazing and astounding to very truly yours how many around here seem to assign little or no value to the factors, characteristics, etc., that are commonly and derivisely termed “intangibles.”

no I agree with you. I was joking about Jeter and the rings (although to be honest, I’d love the Braves adding Jeter to the mix as CF/SS, that is if he was agreeable to a Johnny Damon deal from last year and not the current demands he’s making).

Forget what he's demanding.

He turned down $45M/3 years.

Good trade.

I suppose he could be Kimbrel’s understudy?

GouldisGold - December 3, 2010 reply

I don’t think “understudy” is the word you are looking for…unless you are suggesting that he be the backup closer.

I’m saying that Kimbrel is good. Much better than Linebrink.

GouldisGold - December 4, 2010 reply

so

what OF can we get now? can we get Gregor Blanco back maybe Nate will stop sucking this season

Bring back Andruw Jones

is he a FA?

i want him back

Just sayin'

In 2010, he began to show life again. He went .230 with 19 homers in only 328 at-bats. He also had a reasonable .341 OBP as a result of 45 BBs. I’m thinking we could secure him for 1-3 mil.

Not anymore. :(

(if the budget projections are to be believed)

It was much more important to spend $3M on yet another bp arm.

Actually...

budget projections give us that much, if only that much. And it goes up once we ship out your favorite #3 starter.

Hopefully, we do ship him out, without eating too much salary.

Jacoby Ellsbury or Brett Gardner. Chances are Crawford and/or Werth will sign with the Yankees or Red Sox. That means that one of Ellsbury or Gardner could eventually be on the block.

GouldisGold - December 3, 2010 reply

What makes anyone think Gardner would be the one the Yankees would move?

Or Ellsbury instead of Cameron?

Exactly, either team would be stupid to move young talent when they’re bloated with veterans.

i dont see how they move Cameron….i thought it was an overpay and I love Mike Cameron and he costs too much to move coming off an injury…not to say the Red Sox couldnt just keep him on the roster and say screw you we have more money than everyone esle (not inclduing the Yankees)

They were willing to eat all but...

a small portion of Lowell’s deal after signing a better player in Beltre. Sign a better player in Crawford or Werth, and I’d think they’d be willing to do the same with Cameron (ship him out with $5-6m cash to cover the just over $7m he’s owed). Would you not be willing to take Cameron at $1.5-2m for the season?

I’d kind of love that from a Braves perspective, even if it’s the bulk of remaining money.
McCann
Freeman
Uggla
Gonzalez
Chipper/Prado
Heyward
Cameron/McLouth
Prado/McLouth
with a bench of Ross, Mather, Hinske, McLouth/Cameron, and the last could be a defensive player like Hicks, with Hinske, Mather, and McLouth/Cameron as your primary pinch hitters. Between Cameron, McLouth, and Chipper, you’ve got a good chance for at least one, if not 2 being healthy and productive, giving you a potent lineup and cover for when 1 or 2 are struggling or on the DL.

ya you are correct i guess…

The Braves part is clearly rosterbation...

but considering Lowell/Beltre, I can’t see why they’d want to move a cheap Ellsbury when they could shed the salary of Cameron or Drew, and keep a potential long term asset. It’s not like the Red Sox have shown an unwillingness to move excess, expensive veterans while eating 75+% of the money owed.

Holty_Panthers_Fan - December 3, 2010 reply

Well I agree, Bullpen's shape is nearly formed.

Good to decent trade at least we got some salary relief, I suppose this means we are about done with signings or trades. We only had $5 million to spend and we just commiteed $4 million to Linebrink .

Closer- Kimbrel
Setup- LineBrink
MR(Lefities) Eric O & Venters
MR (RH)- Moylan, Marek or C. Gearrin
Long Relief- C. Martinez or S. Proctor

Wildcard for bullpen – B. Beachy .

So now in order to get anyone else we must dump someones payroll, Damn would someone please KK for even just $2 million LOL. Mclouth is gonna be on this Braves club for the first three mths of the season and hopefully he could do something with a new hitting coach, if not let Schafter or more importantly M. Young give it a whirl he couldn’t do any worse than Nate did last season for us.

GO Braves..

i think venters is the go to 8th inning guy

but will be readily used in the 7th or even 6th if it is a dangerous part of the order

looks like its

finally MATT YOUNG TIME

Yeeeee Hawwww!

im telling ya

he will have to beat out constanza

who is a switch hitter.. who would be much more platoonable with mclouth

in fact, id say given their AAA numbers, young is the underdog

Yeah but

Wren has been singing Young’s praises for 2 months and Fredi spent the summer watching Braves prospects, if he saw what I did, Young has a good shot.

It’ll be a battle between Matt Young, Jose Constanza and Jordan Schafer. I like Constanza’s speed and the fact that he is a switch hitter, but Matt Young is an exciting player also.

Wren said Schafer is “finally healthy”, but he hasn’t shown in at all during the season, Constanza ’s numbers and switch hitting are nice, but Young is no longer blocked by not being on the 40 man roster, Constanza is not on the 40 man. My money is on Young.

ah that 40 man thing might be the key..

but dont we have room on our 40 man?

I really think we need to temper our expectations of Schafer….he hasnt been right for a while, even if he is healthy he needs time to get back into the proverbial swing of things.

I hope is right and healthy, bc he is still our best long term answer at CF, in my opinion.

Same here...

I hope he is right, and healthy, and is in AAA until at least June to get some at bats under his belt after missing tons the last 3 seasons.

i would leave him in AAA all year unless he posts like a 350/425/550 line or something….he needs ABs and needs to get back out there and get into the game more.

P.S. i arbitrarily made up that lien to indicate he would need to be amazing for me to promote him…i dont want to promote him in June just because he has an 800 OPS and McLouth is struggling

But if he does have an 800-850+ ops in AAA...

and McLouth has a first half similar to last year, while I’d agree and would prefer not calling him up, we both know that it’s a distinct possibility no matter how little we’d want it to happen.

often times i dont get what i want…but sometimes i get what i need

well, if you try sometimes, you just might find

Cloud, meet silver lining

i'm sorry for your loss.

colintj - December 3, 2010 reply

haha over at SSS

they have in memoriam: Scott Linebrink well worth a read

JasonHeywardisGod - December 3, 2010 reply

ajcbraves David O’Brien
#Braves are getting more than $2.5 mill from #White Sox to offset Linebrink’s $5.5 mill salary, not the previously reported $1.5 mill

This sounds much better

by mlbtrbraves
#Braves are getting more than $2.5 mill from #White Sox to offset Linebrink’s $5.5 mill salary, not the previously reported $1.5 mill

Cody Arrington - December 3, 2010 reply

White Sox sent cash of "at least $2.5 million"

DOB has amended his story to change “$1.5 million” to at least $2.5 million. Link

Oh, thank God

Maybe if we piss and moan a little more on here, we’ll get it up to $3M.

BTW, over 300+ comments on Scott Effin Linebrink. Well done, TCers. Well done.

Now we'll add 300 more

Just on the news about it being $2.5 instead of $1.5

Cause that is huge

Considering that extra mil...

can be a quality bench bat, or another veteran reliever to complement the kids, or perhaps is just put in the pocket until an overdraft signing, international free agent, or mid season trade.

Good lord, you want ANOTHER bp arm???

Yes, the team could probably use a little more redundancy insurance for an...

injury, rookie falling flat on their face, returning member declining, etc. Preferably a cheap one that is costing less than $2m, if not closer to $500k.

And yet, we still need a CF, 3B, SS, 1B, LF

But by golly, let’s pay more for pen arms.

Except ...

adding a cheap arm to the pen doesn’t prohibit us from signing what you list. Also, CF and LF can be filled by one player, as can 3B/SS, opening Hinske to be more of a true backup 1B. So instead of 5, you can fill that with 2, relatively cheap players off the free agent scrap heap.

But by all means, let’s get back to our currently scheduled program…

“Rabble, rabble, rabble.”

A cheap arm and an expensive arm take up the budget.

Assuming the 3-4M reports are accurate, we now have 1-2M to spend.

By signing your “cheap” arm to the minimum, that would leave us with .5 – 1.5M to spend.

That allows us to sign 1, maybe 2 guys, but not trade for anyone significant, like we should do (CF).

like we should do (CF).

Oh, you mean like Wren has said time and again he’s not doing? Great idea in fantasy land. Please feel free to join the rest of us in reality.

yeah, FW has always told teh truth to the public when working on deals.

Sigh, I agree with Justin here

I like the addition more now after hearing the chisox are throwing in more money. I do think we should be done with the bullpen for awhile, at least until ST. Proctor, Marek, Gearrin, Martinez, EOF, Venters, Moy, Kimbrel, Linebrink, and some young guys who can emerge like Venters did last year. We should really turn our attention to finalizing the bench now that the “veteran presence” in the bullpen is on the squad.

murph35 - December 3, 2010 via mobile reply

lol

Ha! It’s working! Keep it up! Only $1.5M to go!

Ha ha!

Any chance we can get him for the MLB minimum??

This sounds much better, no?

Yes.

At $2M, I’m almost fine with it. I still think Linebrink is a good bet to put up a 4+ FIP next year, but at $2M I’m willing to give Wren the benefit of the doubt. He’s not an idiot, and he and the staff obviously saw something there that justified adding Linebrink instead of the other RP options on the market who would be $500k-$1M less.

I’m cool with it.

I hope this turns out...

similar to the other veteran relief arm he acquired last year, for a similar price, that everyone complained about because he was costing too much, signed too early, too old, too bad, etc. (meaning Saito).

people

didnt like Saito. I thought it was Soriano everyone was pissed about

No, people were definitely...

upset at signing someone 40+, who was worse in Boston than ever before, didn’t/couldn’t pitch on back to back days, was too costly, signed too early in free agency, etc.

I was one of those guys. I still think it was an unnecessary medical risk, although it worked out OK (delivered $4M on a $3.5M contract, per fangraphs).

I'll bet anyone in here that Linebrink is worth more than $2M next year.

I’m done betting on TC after cavebird welched on my last bet, but what makes you so sure of that, given that Linebrink hasn’t been worth $2M for a single season since 2006?

He’s back in the National League, and even more importantly, he’s out of US Cellular Field.

Yeah, but he’s also 3 years older and has significant wear-and-tear on his arm. I agree with you that some of the decline in his #s is likely attributable to the league switch, but some is also likely age.

Plus, you can’t use his SD stats as a proxy for “NL stats,” since he pitched in a park perfectly suited to his FB tendencies. The Ted isn’t the Cell, so his days of the 13+ HR/FB rates are probably over, but he’s also not going to replicate his sub-10 HR/FBs from his Petco days. He’s a FB pitcher, so he’s going to skew a little higher than average, even at the Ted.

I wouldn’t be shocked to see a 4+ FIP from him in 2011. Which is fine for $2M, as long as he heaps pounds and pounds of grit and veteran wisdom on all the young arms in the pen.

I think we'll see an ERA and FIP of 3.50 or so,

but as you said, as long as it doesn’t get above four, it’s probably a good deal.

OK, forgive me for a sec...

But the bullpen does stack up pretty nicely, with Linebrink filling in as the bridge to CK/JV:

7th: Moylan
8th: Linebrink/Venters
9th: Kimbrel

With EOF, Proctor, and Martinez filling out the pen. Not bad.

It’s very solid.

Scott Coleman - December 4, 2010 reply

If Proctor is his career year...

instead of last year. Of course, if he is wasted cash as some suspect, we’ll have Marek, Gearrin, etc waiting in the wings.

I thought our bullpen was very thin with no guys in sight to plug any holes…what do you mean we have guys waitining in the wings?

Considering the tenuous nature of relief arms...

I think having guys waiting in the wings is a good idea. Someone will get hurt, someone will struggle to play up to their potential, among countless other reasons you probably want to have a little excess bullpen arms.

It’s apparently you that things having a few extra arms capable of going should others falter is a bad idea.

justincredubil02 - December 6, 2010 reply

No, I love having extra arms. It’s just that there is a line between having extra arms, and having too may. We are, IMO at the point of having too many – and it is even more frusrating that we just traded for a guy that wasn’t a necessity and made him the most expensive (depending on Moylan’s arb contract) part of the bp.

If $2m is the most expensive bullpen arm...

that’s a damn cheap bullpen.

Mr. Sanchez - December 6, 2010 reply

It is…but we only had $3-4M left to spen.

justincredubil02 - December 6, 2010 reply

AFTER adding him, not before...

and very few, if any holes to fill, namely being 4th OF and backup IF. Which is plenty to spend if those are your needs. Add in any savings when/if Kawakami is dumped, and that’s more than enough to spend on remaining needs.

Mr. Sanchez - December 6, 2010 reply

Deal.

Somehow, I just knew you would take my deal. :)

Scott Coleman - December 4, 2010 reply

I like easy money.

Now that the price is down to 3M

this seems like a pretty good deal. Veteran relief pitchers don’t come cheap, and for the experience and leadership Linebrink will bring, it’s probably a solid investment.

Scott Coleman - December 3, 2010 via mobile reply

+3,000,000

Yea 3 mil is a little better. Seems like the White Sox are trying to save money by getting rid of the back of their pen.

I still wouldn’t mind a closer being signed.

drumzalicious - December 3, 2010 via mobile reply

That’s still about $2.55M too much.

So...

I’ve got to assume you think Marek/Gearrin/etc. can handle Linebrink’s spot.

I think going into the season with Scott Proctor as our most experienced (in total professional years) bullpen arm would be folly. No way should arb-eligibles like Moylan and EOF be considered the veteran presence in the bullpen. They still have some tutelage to undergo themselves.

-C

It’s a good thing that Tim Lincecum and company got all of that playoff experience over the past couple years – otherwise, they probably would have never won the World Series.

Yeah, because Martinez, Marek, Venters, Kimbrel, Moylan, and EOF are equal in talent to Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez and Bumgarner and have absolutely no need for any mentoring.

-C

It’s all about experience.

It does help.

-C

Obviously. Like I said, without their previous experience, the Giants pitchers would have been toast. The same is true for Halladay and any other pitcher who has pitched for the first time.

I think we need to bring Ron Gant back to mentor Heyward

Only if we can trade one of our minor leaguers for him, and sign him for whatever is left in the budget.

Mentorship is important.

It’s really the intangibles, you know?

I just want to know who is going to lead our team in calm eyes?

Ya know, we are looking for a backup SS...

I'm sure it was their experience...

And not their talent that led them all the way to the WS.

And I’m sure our bullpen is more talented than the Giants rotation, or this Holliday guy you mentioned. Learn to spell his name, assbag.

-C

All right, now this seems funny...

Halladay (Roy) or Holliday (Matt)?

SECUND PART OF TEH FRIST AND FRIST PART OF TEH SECUND

I CANT BELEEVE U GYZ NEBER HERD OF ROY HOLLIDAY HES LIEK TEH BEST PICHER IN TEH LEEG

-C

sarcasm fail on me?

You and me both…

And me

Or just a nice recovery by C.

He probably did just cover down and we all took the bait.

When was the last time I misspelled the last name of any player not named Duchscherererererer?? Or someone as ubiquitous in the baseball world as Halladay??

I’m a writer by trade, so the vast majority of my misspellings are sarcastic in fashion. I’m not saying I don’t have my typographical moments, but I’m usually pretty spot-on.

-C

i think you got duchershcherhere right that time

Even a broken clock is right twice a day…it was bound to happen eventually.

I can die a proud man knowing I did Duchshereerererer right by spelling.

-C

cthabeerman - December 4, 2010 reply

LOL, classic

Rec’d.

Pretty sure I did spell it right…

Pretty sure I just threw a swinging strike…

-C

So, you are saying that our current crop of relievers is not talented enough to pitch well, and they need to be mentored?

I know just the aging 34-year old RP for the job...

Let’s see…who could it be…?

I’m saying that they’re talented, but young. A mentor could be immensely helpful to their progress.

Roger McDowell does a great job, but some of the leadership in the bullpen needs to come from the players as well as the coach. Arbitration-eligible players, while talented with a decent amount of experience, shouldn’t be the where this leadership comes from. They still have plenty to learn themselves.

We do have experience in the rotation that could benefit the bullpen guys, but who knows how often the rotation guys and bullpen guys work together. They have different throwing schedules, etc., and they’re not out in the bullpen during games, day-in and day-out.

Leadership by direction, as well as by example, should be witnessed up close and personal, and it’s much easier to achieve this when you have capable and knowledgeable veteran players in the bullpen.

While Linebrink’s performance isn’t dominant by any means, it doesn’t mean that the younger players can’t benefit from his presence, even if they’re more talented than he is. Actually, some of the best coaches weren’t necessarily the best players, as witnessed by McDowell himself.

Linebrink does add something to the roster that was previously missing, and I think there’s some value in having his experience available.

-C

I would like to point out that the Giants have Barrry Zito…who potentially taught shit to the young pitchers…they also have Jeremy Affeldt in the bullpen who presumably taught their pen a thing or two.

Silly me.

Wren said this guy is “exactly who we need” and that he will mentor Venters and Kimbrel. With the price now $2M, I like this deal

They are also 100% reliable arms...

who will form the primary components of an awesome bullpen next year, just like they (and some very strong veterans) did last year.

It’s a good thing we signed Linebrink then, what with our shortage of replacement arms that we have at AAA.

Because ...

if we just use Gwinnett’s bullpen from last year, we’ll be all right this year. I mean, look at their numbers in AAA! Great AAA relievers, FTW!

I forgot that they had a rule that prohibited AAA starters from pitching out of the ’pen.

Ah, that's our answer...

Ortegano, Diamond, Redmond, and Parr. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

You’re right, once again. It’s better to spend $2M of our remaining $3-4M budget on a guy who will be marginally better, if at all, than those guys.

Assuming that's all he'll be, and that's all we have to spend...

yes, but I think both assumptions are wrong.

Much better, but still too much.

BTW, Cot’s indicates that Linebrink has NTC protection. Please tell me we don’t need to add a year to get him to waive it, because that would make me want to cut myself

Veteren relief pitcher do kinda come cheap.

*Veteran

thats more like it, now maybe we can add a backup SS.

why

Brandon Hicks is ready. we must be ready for BRANDON HICKS TIME BABY

nick punto...

interesting.

Really hope we aren’t going to do this closer by committee stuff.

drumzalicious - December 3, 2010 via mobile reply

Wow. The Braves ended up getting 3.5M from Chicago.

So Linebrink cost us only 2M in 2011.

Will some of you stop bitching about the deal now? This is a steal.

Scott Coleman - December 3, 2010 via mobile reply

No kidding?

Wow indeed.

(Probably won’t stop the bitching, though.)

Like I said...

No, I think it’s great that we traded a live arm and are paying about half or our estimated remaining budget for a BP arm.

kyle cofield...

has a minor league career whip of almost 1.5. as a reliever, that’s bad, but as a starter, that’s atrocious. giving up cofield is giving up nothing.

ryan c - December 3, 2010 reply

But he was still a living, breathing person…

Gearrin is better.

No argument from me.

I'd hope the White Sox wouldn't have asked for a dead, non breathing person.

That would be a bad sign

I was hoping for a bucket of balls.

NEVER

Need to knock off another $.55M and it would be a “steal.”

yup....

bowman confirming via twitter: http://twitter.com/mlbbowman

we still have money to spend. YAY!

ryan c - December 3, 2010 reply

It just keeps getting better

Sounds like they just wanted to clear $2M for AJ’s salary

Not a steal, but at least the deal kinda-sorta makes sense now.

This isn't a steal

It’s now closer to Fair. Linebrink isn’t good, and he hasn’t been good in several years.

buzzdeadwax - December 3, 2010 reply

He was average in Chicago. He’s a fly ball pitcher, and US Cellular is one of the most hitter-friendly parks in baseball. Playing in a neutral field, paired with the national league, makes him a very solid option for $2M.

this

if

we need another OF i heard former home run derby winner Garret Anderson is available

I wonder if he can glide or hit professionally?

hey

Jeff Francoeur might be available. He played with Mac and was dubbed the Natural by SI we need to jump on him

He’ll probably give a home-town discount. He’d be a great guy in the clubhouse. I think that’s why we lost in the 1st round last year – because we were short 1 good clubhouse guy.

yea

AGon can only provide so much clubhouse presence.

But, he hitz DINGERZ!

Plus he has World Series experience!!!

Yea

and we need a back up SS. Edgar Renteria is on the market

and he has

World Series Experience to

to... help us?

A most important asset.

speaking of asshets, when should be looking forward to the payoff on the bet fanpost grovel-fest?

You only gave half a prediction…you didn’t do KJ. That was part of the bet, IIRC.

Saw this on the Sox site they seem happy about the trade

TheBravestWay To Block A Decent Prospect - December 3, 2010 reply

Looks like the only major difference between Linebrink with the Pads

and Linebrink with the Sox is his FB/HR. Hopefully Turner Field can supress that and bring his FIP to 4.00 or so.

Also this from southsidesox:

my favorite memory was that flinchy thing Linebrink did whenever the batter swung. Where he’d duck his head and put his hands up to deflect the rocket he always assumed (for good reason) was going to hit him in the melon.

haha

I read a bunch of that thread, they are really glad he’s gone. Kinda like we would be if somebody took Kawakami and McLouth off our hands

TheBravestWay To Block A Decent Prospect - December 3, 2010 reply

I've already got some good nicknames from that thread

Leadshrink is my favorite.

Re: everything I've said about this trade before

Nevermind

The Goche - December 3, 2010 reply

My original thought was $4 mill was too much, but that we’d deal with it if he pitches better than he did last season. For $2 mill, I’ve got no problem saying nice job Frank.

The Goche - December 3, 2010 reply

In a league...

where Brendan Lyon and Joaquin Benoit get 3 year, $15M+ deals, 2 million for Scott Linebrink sounds pretty damn good to me.

Ain't that the truth.

You could actually even add Linebrink’s original deal to that list… He’s the kind of guy that you don’t want to sign, but you do want to trade for in the last year of his deal when the other team is willing to kick in some cash.

Jacob Peterson - December 3, 2010 reply

Reason #8962361890 I love the Braves...

They (usually) don’t give out stupid contracts to relief pitchers.

If the money we're getting back is indeed $3.5M,

this is a nice move. Linebrink isn’t great, but once he’s taken out of that HR haven, he should be perfectly good as an innings-eating 7th/8th inning guy. Which is more or less exactly what we needed. I like it.

Jacob Peterson - December 3, 2010 reply

Braves resign Hinske - 200 comments

Braves trade for Linebrink – 499 comments so far

joshant - December 3, 2010 reply

With Hinske...

everyone says good deal, yeah, we added a valuable piece to the bench.

But with Linebrink, there’s some who like, some who dislike, there’s been the changing amount of money sent by the White Sox, it’s been a bit more to discuss. with differing opinions debated.

Exactly.

Pretty good discussion in this thread so far.

Hear, hear

500+

Coming to grips

It seems a little early to make this deal….I thought we would be getting outfield help for our Christmas presents this year!!!!!

bravestatoo - December 3, 2010 reply

Too early for what?

You make deals when they’re available.

but judging from the past

With the exception of last year.(Billy abd Saito)..all set up arms are a invite to Spring training?…ala Proctor’s addition last year happened at Spring training

bravestatoo - December 3, 2010 reply

it FW wants build a complete team before 2011

joshant - December 3, 2010 reply

*it seems FW...

joshant - December 3, 2010 reply

Which isn’t a bad plan, really.

While we more or less have everything set, other teams will be scrambling to sign the best pitcher or position players available (quality and quantity will decrease with time).

When someone can’t get what they want through free agency and mutually-beneficial trades, and we have some depth to offer what they need, they’ll pay top dollar to get it.

Way better position to be in than that of a team like the Cubs, who were rumored to be unable to make any moves before shedding themselves of Fukudome’s hefty contract. Lo and behold, he’s still there and they haven’t done a thing. We have a bit of that with KK, but nothing that’s hamstrung us over the past two months.

Clubs will be dealing out of desperation in the next couple of months, and if we’re at a position in which standing pat is acceptable, we’re going to get the calls begging for help, rather than being the team making those calls.

-C

Please oh please let some of that desperation...

lead to the Mariners, Astros, Mets, etc becoming willing to pay Kenny K $3-4m to be their 4th starter. For one, is the obvious savings to my team, but another is I’m curious to see what he’d do if actually given a starting spot again. Would he be the decent, if underwhelming, starter we came to love, or the hittable loser so many hate?

he would be really good in SEA i think

I think he'd be a good fit for about a dozen teams...

but nothing yet. Seattle probably makes the most sense with their massive park and Japanese ties, but at under $5m, if not $3m or less, I don’t see why more teams would want someone who can do a better job in the back of their rotation than their current options (here’s looking at you Diamondbacks, Pirates, Mariners, Royals, etc) considering he almost certainly wouldn’t cost prospects (just salary relief).

i just think his pitching style would work well with their team, he puts a lot of balls in play and gives up a fair share of flyballs, which would work well in Safeco and with Franklin Gutierrez

i thinks

Certainly seems that way...

now he can sit back, and see what deals fall in his lap, be it a desperate trade of a team wanting to dump a CF option, or decent veterans who can be had for $1m or less on the free agent market to add to the bench and pitching depth.

This isn’t that bad. 2M is roughly fair market value for Linebrink. Even better, if he has a good year, he should net us a draft pick as type B free agent.

Only if we offer him arb

Not a guarantee, by any stretch.

That’s why I prefaced it with if he has a good year. If he does have a good year, middlemen like Linebrink usually (stupidly) get multiyear deals. There’s a less risk in offering guys like Linebrink coming off good years as they are more likely to accept the multiyear offer as compared to closer types seeking larger, longerterm contracts, a la our situation with Soriano last year.

Linebrink’s already received his stupid multi-year deal. I don’t think he’ll get another one at age 35. Could be wrong, though.

considering he is 35 and a type B, we could enter into some sort of pseudo agreement where we offer him arbitration with the understanding he will reject it, just so we get the supplemental pick….it wouldn’t harm his status as a FA (like a type A designation would)….

the Brewers apparently did this with Hoffman…so maybe its a trend (ya I just decided a singular event was a trend)

This...

at his age, even if he gets to be a type B, I’d hope we don’t offer arb.

Considering arb is almost certainly to look at the full contract he was paid, instead of just what we’re paying, he’d almost certainly get a raise, and with the kids coming up I’d expect both Linebrink and Moylan to be elsewhere next year.

LEastCoastBears - December 3, 2010 reply

unless he has a GREAT year, I don’t think we’ll risk offering Linebrink arbitration…he would be in line for a raise ABOVE the $5.5 million that he is earning this year

Possible gentleman's agreement...

But I don’t see it happening otherwise.

-C

Holty_Panthers_Fan - December 3, 2010 reply

Good news on extra cash given in the deal.

Last update makes me change my mind on the deal as well, ATL has blown way more on less proven pitchers even in or past their primes then the $2 Million they are spending for Linebrink.

Personally I would like us to just sign A. Everett SS-Utility Player for one year at $1.0-1.5 million range and our club is complete. I put no trust in Hicks, Diory as far as being as good as Omar was for us. Everett is a proven vet with a glove, although his bat has really fallen off in recent years but ATL has the offense now we just need a sure glove to come in for Uggla in late innings or spell Gonzo once in a while.

As for the final bullpen spot it is gonna be between Beachy, Martinez, or Marek with outside shot for Gearrin which is unlikely b/c Moylan is gonna be back with the Braves for his final year of arb meaning that Moylan is done in ATL after this season and Gearrin is gonna replace him in 2012, so we don’t want to allow Gearrin to not get work in so he will return to AA or AAA next season and make his big league debut perhaps at Sept call up’s but definately in 2012 as a groundball specialist for the Bravos.

GO BRaves.

If we're just signing him for his glove....

…..then Hicks can be the “scrappy white guy that plays good defense” for $400K.

Jake Humphrey - December 3, 2010 reply

Well true BUT! Veteran leadership is still needed.

Remember the terrible post season Brooks Conrad had when he was forced into a starting role ? All those errors, granted he did alot of ATL with his huge hits off the bench in the regular season but his glove work was far from average . Everett is a true vet with a good glove and perhaps I am under-estimating his bat alitte I mean stats don’t tell everything about a player and what he brings to the table such as leadership.

Everett would be a great signing for ATL to complete their bench and then our team is set plus Everett is from Austell GA, so perhaps he would give us a slight hometown discount to return and play in his home state for what is the backside of his career. Utility player~Bench, Power Hitter RH, and lastly Bullpen. Done and Done.

Everett Stats LinK;
http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=276361
Still wish we could dump at least half of KK’s contract and perhaps alll of Nate’s and free up $9-$12 Million we are wasting on players that are not gonna contribute a whole lot to the 2011 Braves unless Nate really rebounds which is slightly possible with a new hitting coach and KK well a bad signing is a bad signing sometimes you just have to eat it on a deal.

Go Braves.

Holty_Panthers_Fan - December 3, 2010 reply

I already know replying is probably a mistake but here goes…

the difference between Conrad and Hicks is…Conrad is a well known butcher in the field…he is a great hitter and a great bench bat, but he is a bat….Hicks however is a stud defender…so being a veteran won’t help him field, being talented will however and he is plenty talented.

Having a veteran wouldnt have helped us last year having talent would have, not to say Conrad isn’t talented because he definitely is. He is as mentioned a great hitter.

Conrad vs. Hicks will be an interesting battle come spring imo...

and depends on whether Mather shows more value as a ph or a defensive sub. With Hinske as our primary pinch hitter, and hopefully a borderline starting caliber 4th OF (in case Chipper or McLouth or both falter), and assuming Mather is a lock for one of the bench spots being out of options and signed to a major league deal, that leaves one spot including Ross and the 4th OF. SO if Mather can hit, Conrad isn’t as needed and we can use Hicks as a defensive specialist/pinch runner. If Mather can field but not hit, then keep up Conrad as another pinch hitter joining Hinske and the OF acquisition. But I don’t think Conrad is a lock to make the roster.

One can field well and not hit, the other can’t field at all and hits sometimes.

Veteran Leadership?

You mean guys like Chipper, Hinske, and Ross? Uggla was the clubhouse leader of the Marlins. And let’s not forget that Huddy is the clear veteran leader of the pitching staff. The big thing about having a veteran for the bullpen was that Wren wanted someone sitting down in the bullpen with the kids and talking to them in-game.

And Everett giving us a home-town discount? Really? If he plays at all this year he’s going to have to take a minor league deal. Nobody is going to guarantee him a damn thing.

I stand by what I said. If we need a “gritty white guy that plays good defense” we’ll go with Hicks.

Jake Humphrey - December 3, 2010 reply

This went from an OK trade to a good trade. 2M for Linebrink isn’t bad at all. Great job Wren

apoxonbothyourhouses - December 4, 2010 reply

i think FW is here

Maybe he didn´t complete the trade until everybody in here were satisfied.

first he made everybody thougth that he would receive Linebrink + 1.5 M. He told to the bloggers and we read from the bloggers and posted it here, then FW read the comments here and he said “WTF, too many people complaining!!”

then he told everybody that wasn´t 1.5 M, it was 2.5 M, then again he visited this site and he found that still some guys complaining, then FW again change the amount and now it was 3.5 M.

He revisited this site and found that almost everybody is happy, finally he calls to White Sox´s GM and tell him “Linebrink + 3.5 M” for Cofield, and the other GM says OK

joshant - December 4, 2010 reply

ya

the general mood went from fail to meh to ok

kbertling353 - December 4, 2010 reply

irst he made everybody thougth

no offense, but my 2.5 year old daughter can write better than that.

haha

“You can’t say ‘With all due respect’ and then say whatever you want.” “I most certainly can!”

kreese555 - December 4, 2010 reply

Yeah, but can she write better than that is another language?

Also, as the phrase “No offense, but,” ever been followed by something that wasn’t, in fact, offensive?

People should really say things like, “No offense, but you’re really great.”

Lennox - December 4, 2010 reply

lol +1

I might start saying that

Braves24 - December 4, 2010 reply

He’s okay, his tendency toward a high FB% isn’t a major concern in the NL East in general, though I wonder if he’s someone you want in a close game in a more HR friendly park (Philly, AZ, most of the NL Central) and if that’s something that FG is going to have to take into account.

Lennox - December 4, 2010 reply

That’s a great point. Our park only helps him in half of our games but I still think pitching in the NL will really help his performance.

My question is more of whether he Is he a guy that you’re comfortable having in there against another team’s big power hitters who are likely to get a little extra distance on those flies; Is he a set-up man, or a situational pitcher? IE, if it’s a tie game in the 8th and Ryan Braun is coming up do you still send Linebrink out there?

Lennox - December 4, 2010 reply

In a word no. I bring in kimbrell if available regardless of what inning and let centers close if need be. Hopefully FG does to

I mean Venters… stupid auto-spell

good trade he’s back in the NL he will turn things around

farreasy - December 4, 2010 reply

600 comments about Scott Linebrink… wow

I’ve got a feeling tht there will be quite a few more in game thread about Linebrink – mostly followed by naughty four-letter words