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Talking Chop

Braves 2011 Top-25 Prospects: 6-10

Edward Salcedo has yet to live up to his hype, but there's still time.

Edward Salcedo has yet to live up to his hype, but there's still time.

Talking Chop ranks the top-25 Braves prospects for 2011. For an introduction and an explanation of how this list was compiled, go here. Today we look at the bottom half of the top-10, a very good group of prospects, most of whom should get much better with more experience and move further up this list. All of these guys have a chance to be Major League impact players.

6. Arodys Vizcaino, RHSP
The Skinny:
Rated by some as a better prospect than Julio Teheran coming into the season, he surprised many by showing better than expected polish between and Rome and Myrtle Beach before being shut down with an arm injury.
The Good: Features a fastball that can get up to to 96 and a curveball that grades better than Teheran's. Spent the entire season at age 19, showing surprising control, walking just nine in 70 innings with Rome.
The Bad: The injury throws up immediate caution flags, though he returned for two games and apparently pitched with no discomfort. For him to continue to develop as a starter he needs to improve his change-up.
In a perfect world: The injuries are a non-factor and his change becomes average making him a top flight starter and yet another top of the rotation option for Atlanta.
ETA: 2012. The shoulder injury put him a step behind his partner in crime, Julio Teheran.

7. Matt Lipka, SS
The Skinny:
The Braves top pick in the 2010 draft had an excellent debut with the GCL team, earning a late season promotion to Rome.
The Good: Excellent athlete. Well above average speed and intelligent baserunner. Solid, fundamental hitter. Natural on base skills. Great baseball instincts. Hustles better than anyone. Athletic enough to profile well at several positions.
The Bad: Relies on his hands too much as a hitter, causing a lack of power. Body isn't prototypical for a shortstop.
In a perfect world: Lipka becomes an All-Star, top of the order hitter, leading the Atlanta offense while more than capably playing either shortstop, second base, or center field.
ETA: Late 2014. Lipka is young and the Braves will have to be patient with him, but he has all the tools and mental makeup to be a great player.

8. Edward Salcedo, SS
The Skinny:
The Braves gave him more money than they'd ever given an international free agent and the 18 year old shortstop made his professional debut with the DSL team before moving up to Rome, where he struggled.
The Good: First class athlete with the potential to be a five too player. Outstanding range and a strong arm. Strong natural instincts, though unrefined. Big, lean body with tons of room for projection.
The Bad: Was rusty this season after not playing much the last few years, and the Braves probably promoted him too quickly. Less experienced than most 18 year old Dominican players. Made a ton of errors, leading some to question his ability to stick at shortstop in the long run.
In a perfect world: Salcedo develops into a top shortstop in the mold of Troy Tulowitzki or Hanley Ramirez.
ETA: Late 2014. With his natural ability, Salcedo has the potential to rocket up the system at any time, but a conservative projection is more realistic.

9. Brandon Beachy, RHSP
The Skinny:
An undrafted free agent success story that spent his first seasons with the organization as a promising reliever before switching to the rotation mid-season in 2010 and dominating his way into Atlanta's rotation plans for the future.
The Good: Has excellent command and control of three average to above average pitches: Fastball, curve and change. Has the versatility and experience to pitch in the rotation or the bullpen.
The Bad: Doesn't have any skill other than command that projects as above average. His stamina as a starter is unknown at this point. Little to no projection going forward: what you have now is likely what he is going to be.
In a perfect world: He becomes a very good middle of the rotation starter or valuable setup guy.
ETA: Now. He finished 2010 as a starter for the Braves and barring a trade he will be back in Atlanta in some capacity during the 2011 season. If the Braves plan on keeping him as a starter, he could benefit from a year of starting in the minors. Still, he's probably the first option if one of the Major League starters goes down.

10. Carlos Perez, LHSP
The Skinny:
Lean lefty was dominant for Danville and Rome before a shoulder blade injury ended his season.
The Good: Tall with good mechanics that allow him to sling the ball in the mid-90s. Surprisingly good feel for pitching for a young foreign player. If he continues to progress as he has, we should be talking about him in the same vein as we talk about Randall Delgado or Arodys Vizcaino next year.
The Bad: Season ended early due to injury, but it shouldn't affect him going forward. Is rail thin and needs to put on a ton of weight to handle the rigors of a full season. His secondary pitches are developing but still not in the same class as his fastball.
In a perfect world: Perez develops into a top of the rotation, strikeout lefty as part of Atlanta's dominant home grown rotation.
ETA: Mid to late 2014. If he's able to put everything together he could come up at some point in 2013, but the Braves will be more than willing to be patient with him.

0 recs  |  172 comments

Comments

Trade em all for Upton!

I wasn’t even in a good humor this morning, but that made me chuckle.

That douche would still turn it down.

Wait,

is Summer’s Eve the new Diamondbacks GM?

Well written...

and gives me the utmost hope for the future. the only question i have is concerning lipka’s projection. any chance he gets put on the fasttrack like furcal and gets to atlanta by 2012? they seem similar enough in athleticism and baserunning skills. what is lipka’s arm like at short?

Word is he’s more likely to move to CF.

Always a chance...

but getting to the show as a 20 year old is pretty rare you know. I’m guessing our farm system is not clogged with OF talent the way it is with pitching. Based on that he should get every opportunity to be promoted…

The last 20 year old CFer we called up worked out pretty well.

I’m pretty sure he was 19 (and he played more RF when he was called up)… just sayin.

Did we have Grissom when he was called up?

Yes. Andruw platooned with Michael Tucker in right field in 1997.

Furcal signed when he was 16 and when he debuted in 2000 it was his fourth professional season. And it turns out he was actually 18, so he was 22 when he debuted. So even if Lipka matched Furcal’s pace, he wouldn’t play in Atlanta until 2013. And that still seems a bit quick.

I do love Furcal's age...

gets a DUI, they claim he’s underage, and that’s when his real age is revealed.

LOL @ photo caption.
Great to know that at 18 years of age and after half a season of pro ball, “there’s still time” for Salcedo to reach his potential.

Salcedo looks...

like ARod did when he came out of high school…

Looks like Renteria to me
whats interesting

I think DOB was the one who said it. The Braves could start Beachy in 2010 as their 5th starter to allow Minor some more time in the since he had only been there one season. Kind of an interesting thought. You just gotta figure whoever does better in ST will get the spot.

Salcedo

A Troy Tulowitzki comp for Salcedo is probably the worst/laziest comp I have ever heard. Are you just naming good shortstops? Tulo is probably the best defensive SS in baseball, while I have yet to read any scout suggest Salcedo even has a chance of sticking at short.

I agree

Salcedo can’t be projected at all yet. He hasn’t even had a good offensive year much less a good defensive year.

The Tulo comp is based on size and skillset. Could Salcedo develop into a fine defensive SS? Heck yeah!!

The thing you are failing to realize is that Tulo has been playing shortstop for many more years than Salcedo, hence his current ability there. Seven years ago, Tulo might not of been such a stud there (he made 21 errors during his 21 year old season, Salcedo made 28@Rome during his 18 year old season).

Well, I am known for my lazy journalism.

Your lazy journalism is very much appreciated. The Rolodex guys are over rated.

I was gonna say...

we’re tired of you always going off the cuff and winging it…

Y'all also may be incorrect on Vizcaino...

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100904&content_id=14305088&vkey=news_t495&fext=.jsp&sid=t495
From his last appearance this year…

Arodys Vizcaino (9-4) started for the Braves and was charged with the loss, allowing one run on two hits. Vizcaino, who was rated as the 69th best prospect in baseball by Baseball America, left the game in the second inning with an apparent arm injury.

So was it just a scare, or was it more significant damage to the elbow?

I keep seeing things about how he was tearing it up in Instructs. I don’t know. If I spoke Spanish better I’d ask him.

Damn you lazy bastard...

whip out your rolodex and call up Teheran to ask, or Almarez. You could ask if you weren’t so damned lazy.

His English is good enough. Ask him anyway. :)

You’re right. I hate it though when I haven’t talked to a guy in a while to be like, “Hey, how’s your arm? My creepy internet friends were wondering.”

Wow, you really are lazy...

if in the course of normal conversation, you talk about how he’s doing on the field at the moment, how difficult is it to deduce from, “Things are going great. I’m mowing guys down” means his elbow is fine. On the other hand, “It’s rough. My arm feels like you think it’s loaded with gummi worms and skittles” means it’s a problem.

 Anything in between, and I’ll demand strict scientifically tested methods of statistical analyis of his every pitch in instructs.

Yawn.

So I'm no comedian

but you’re still a no good stinkin bet whelcher. Whose beard grows in funny too.

That’s why my face is baby smooth right now.

Salcedo...

seems to be very projectable at 3B as well right?

I love all these guys but Salcedo.

There are some injury worries with most of them, but that’s not unusual, especially for pitchers. You just have to accept that some of them are going to get hurt and not fulfill their potential. Having an injury now doesn’t necessarily forebode injury problems in the future, though—just as being injury-free now doesn’t indicate that a player won’t have injury trouble.

In other words, based on talent and production, these guys are fantastic prospects, with one exception: Salcedo. I know he’s got loads of “Tools”, but honestly, he hasn’t shown an actual baseball skills yet. It’s clear that his layoff has affected him. I’m afraid that we’re overrating him simply because he looks like a star baseball player. Given the excellent depth of our system, I am going to wait to wait Salcedo in the top 10 until he’s actually proven he can accomplish something in the minors—even if it’s just in the GCL. He may have the talent to be a top prospect, but until he actually demonstrates it in games, others are more deserving of the honor.

blarg

wait to wait have

You make a good point that he hasn’t shown it in the minors yet. But for me, I feel like the Braves scouts are really, really good. For them to recommend the highest IFA signing bonus in team history, the kid has some serious potential. Since prospects are primarily potential, I think Salcedo probably deserves to be in the top 10. The reports coming out of the Instructs have been glowing

I’m with you on Salcedo. I had him ranked lower than any of the other guys did at #13. My fear comp with him is Wilson Betemit, though Wilson started in pro ball at a much younger age. Again, that’s my fear, my hope is that he’s much better.

I think this year will really show us what we have in him. If he adjusts well and kills it this year we probably have a superstar on our hands. If he doesn’t we have anywhere from a Betemit to a solid major league starter.

Yes

This year will be a make it or break it year for Salcedo at the old age of 19

Yes, yes. All prospects are finished at 19. In their second year of pro ball. Absolutely. Spot on.

And

Next year will be his first full year in the States. I mean getting adjusted to a different culture and language is pretty easy, right?

Heck yeah! Drop me in Singapore right now, I’m sure I’ll make a name for myself!

I’m not saying he’s done, but if he kills it in Rome this year, and I have a feeling he will, it would be a pretty good indicator of how good he’s going to be.

And again, I reiterate, stats in the low Minors, good or bad, don’t tell the whole story, maybe not even a little part of it.

I’m thinking more about adjustment than stats. If he shows that he can asjust to pro ball in this short of time, he probably has the mental toughness to get on the fast track. Maybe I’m just being overly optimistic, but it would be nice if he proved to be ready to take over at 3rd whenever Chipper retires, whether after 2012 or 2013.

Either is too soon.

I was mentally hard as nails at 19!

Betemit has turned into a decent utility player though

Still, definitely a disappointment for how he looked like he’d turn out. Honestly, Salcedo reminds me of Betemit. I guess that would make some folks temper their excitement, but it just reminds me what I liked about Betemit back then.

Fair enough...

but while Betemit has been disappointing compared to what could have been, he’s been a helluva lot better than Marte. So it’s all relative imo.

I keep wanting to say I wish I’d ranked Salcedo higher, but I had him fourth and right now I can’t put him ahead of Teheran, Freeman, or Delgado. The kid is fantastic.

You say he hasn’t shown any baseball skills, but what you really mean is he hasn’t shown anything statistically, because he’s oozing with baseball skill. Stats are great for adults playing in the Majors, but they don’t really tell much of anything about kids playing in the low Minors.

Have you...

ever seen the movie “Sugar”? It opened up my eyes to a lot of what Ozzie Guillen took heat for (about Caribbean players being left to fend culturally on their own). With all Salcedo went through with playing 1/2 season, having his immigration hold-up, etc…

Now that he is hopefully adjusted somewhat…do you see something big happening for him this year?

Yeah, I actually got to see it in the theater and have watched it a number of times since it came out on DVD. Ozzie had it right, why do the Japanese guys get translators and the Latinos are just supposed to deal with it? It’s very true, I’ve seen tons of players that just plain couldn’t speak a word of English when they first came over and it really hinders them. They’re and unbelievably long way from home in a place they don’t understand and there are just so many things outside the game to deal with that people don’t even think about. The scene in Sugar where the guys all order french toast because that’s what they one guy who did speak English orders is so spot on it’s unreal. I don’t know how much this affected Edward this season, but to overlook it entirely is just unfair.

I think he’s going to do much better in 2011 and in a few year people are going to wonder how anyone doubted him.

Point taken, however, how many MLB teams don’t have a player or coach that doesn’t speak both English and Spanish that can help the Spanish speaking players? I don’t think a transaltor is necessary for Spanish as it is for Japanese or any other language for that matter.

The reality is that most of the Japanese guys speak English very well and take advantage of the rule to get their buddy a job. Ichiro speaks perfect English, but pretends he doesn’t to avoid interview and keep his pal working.

Well that’s just wrong then.

That's silly

I worked in food processing for 7 years surrounded by Hispanics, they had no clue what I wanted them to do or worse yet, stop doing. I speak very little Spanish, most of it came down to sign language. That and the fact that a smile goes a long way.

Wait…what?

You said folks that speak Spanish don’t need a translator, I say they do.

I said they don’t need a translator because every MLB organization has a player and/or coach who can speak both languages to translate if necessary and provide guidance.

Sorry

missed that part

No problem…ha What were you trying to stop them from doing? I found that funny for some reason.

Everything under the sun! I was QA, the best one was when 2 Hispanics decided to take a Mt Dew bottle into the plant, fill it with a few CO2 pellets and wait for it to blow up. Then explain to them, we have a ton of chicken pieces to inspect 1 by 1 looking for pieces of plastic bottle fragments.

Which is fine when they’re at the ballpark, but what about the rest of the time?

The thing is, most latin players are picked up as amateurs and don’t have a ton of negotiating power unless your name is Chapman. Japanese players come over as professionals. I’m sure their agent can negotiate that into their contract if the team thinks it’s worth it.

You’re right, and that was a big part of Ozzie’s point, they treat the Latino guys like dirt cause they can. It’s like, here’s some money and a chance to play in America, figure it out. But the Asian guys, who really make a much lower impact on the MLB, are given all the help they need.

I don’t see them being treated like “dirt” as you say. All ballplayers have to endure the rigors of playing in the minors. The Latin players just have an extra hurdle in that they don’t speak English. They chose to come here for a better life just like other immigrants who may not possess their baseball skills. I’m sure they offer them English classes. What else do you want the team to do for them?

I wonder if the American players who go to Japan get translators.

No, they don’t.

I’m sure if Joey Votto was dead set on playing in Japan, he could negotiate a translator into his contract or he could just not play there. Just saying.

They absolutely treat them like dirt, because they can. All the teams know they can get away with it because if the player doesn’t like it they can find 20 guys willing to take his spot. Teams don’t treat their Minor League players very well, and that’s part of the process. If you can put up with all the crap and still rise to the top, then you get to make it.

My argument would be, make it easier on the Latino players to adjust. They have some rudimentary half-assed classes at some of the Dominican academies, but that’s about it. Otherwise they tell the guys to try to talk to teammates and fans in English as much as possible. It’s basically sink or swim. These guys aren’t any “immigrants”, they’re worthwhile commodities that a team has time and money invested into and it would just be smart to do something to foster that investment. And teams just don’t do enough, mostly because they know the attrition rate is so high that it wouldn’t be worth the time and money to worry about helping the players acclimate to a new life. Of course, that’s shortsighted thinking, because in the long game, which is the way you should operate a baseball organization, it would pay huge dividends.

CB, do you speak any Spanish? Seems like it would come in handy for your interviews and such.

I speak a little, nowhere near enough. It’s amazing how far a willingness to understand each other will go though. Some of my absolute favorite guys in they system are the Latino dudes. It’s always fun to watch as they get older how much English they pick up.

But like you said, most minor leaguers are treated like dirt. I’m sure the special ones like Teheran, Heyward and Freeman may be treated a little differently but these are young men fine tuning their skills to play baseball better. It doesn’t seem from your comments that you’re implying that the Latin players are treated somewhat harsher than the other players.

They are inherently, because they have all the regular issues with the added problem of being a stranger in a foreign land. The whole Minor League process is crazy; you grow up and you’re a stud, the star of your town, your little league, your high school, maybe your college. You know everyone and everyone loves you. Then you get drafted and they send you to a town you’ve never heard of and you’re put with 24 strangers, who are supposed to instantly be your friends, and suddenly you’re not even close to the star or the best player and you’ve got more money than you’ve ever seen, even though it’s really not that much money, and you spend 10 hours a day at the ballpark and every other week and a half living on a bus or in a really bad hotel room that you have to share with a stranger that you didn’t even get to pick, and people on the internet are judging everything you do based on numbers and things other people have said about them and you miss your mom and your dad and your girlfriend and everyone you grew up with and your manager doesn’t care about any of that he just wants to know why you missed that sign and it’s so unbelievably hot and your body is dead because you’ve played more games in the last two months than you did in your entire high school career. And, if you’re Latino you’ve got all that and you don’t understand a word anyone is saying and you can’t read any of the signs and you’re in a small town and some folks don’t like you cause of how you look and you don’t understand why those guys at the bar were so mad that you tried to talk to that girl and your really wish you knew what the coach was telling you but he doesn’t know your language and you don’t know his and your family is so far away you don’t even know how many miles it is and you’d send them an email but they don’t have a computer and you don’t have a laptop anyway.

Personally...

I wish all sports would do a better job of educating players on how to deal with the things they deal with, and maybe pay them a little less to cover those costs, than just throw gobs of money at the good ones and have everyone “figure it out”.

I don’t know how in depth this is but the NFL has a rookie symposium for all rookies, and then each team does their own thing as well.

It obviously depends on how seriously the leauge and the players take this, but sounds like they do a good job, at the same time almost all the players are American and don’t have to deal with learning a new culture.

Pretty sure both the NBA and NFL have rookie symposium...

stuff, but then it’d be a lot easier for those leagues to do such a thing than MLB imo considering the way players come up within the 3 systems.

If you bring an employee...

to another country where they don’t speak the language, ask them to be on the road 50% of the time during the season, ask them to play Winter League ball who knows where, and move several of them to higher-level clubs year after year…the one thing I would you would owe them is some normalcy in their everyday life…

The one thing is that if a player has Winter Ball in his native country, like he’s from the DR where they have Winter Ball, he can’t play in a different country. Aside from that, agreed.

The Braves have...

so many former players who could actively serve this purpose in the organization. You know, the Javy Lopez’s and Johnny Estrada’s could be out there communicating with these Latino players…

Johnny is actually from California and doesn’t speak much Spanish, but yes, having older guys light the path would be great. That’s why a guy like Carlos Mendez working with the younger guys is great. He’s from Venezuela, played 19 years of pro ball and learned English on his own.

Very true...

but is it fair for an organization to pay the translator expense for a Japanese player…but then add the extra burden of assimilation to a player who is also trying to rise thru the minors?

I remember in “Sugar” how his best friend on the team in Iowa, the veteran Catcher, was released and never heard from again.

I can’t say it’s fair or not, but most if not all players are represented by an agent who can negotiate perks in their contract. It’s definitely going to be tougher for a 17 year old just starting out in the minors than a seasoned professional coming over from Japan. That’s just the way it is.

Couldn't you argue that simply adding...

a Braves Hispanic liason in Rome, Danville, or other small town we have a minor league team in would positively impact the chances of a Latino prospect achieving more of their potential?

I know many of these small towns have families that take in players…but still.

Very few Minor Leaguers have agents.

Perhaps not

But the Japanese situations is a bit different.

For one, almost every organization has several spanish-speaking players at every single level, while very, very few have multiples who speak Japanese. The organization might afford a translator for single player, who is almost always brought over as a professional and signed to the major league club. Providing personal translators to every Latin player at every level is a different kind of expense entirely, especially when a ton of those who are signed contribute very little to the organization because making the Major Leagues is very hard.

Almost every organization does have bilingual coaches and staff to help the Spanish speaking players to begin with. It’s tough for them when they’re not with the team, obviously, but this country has increasingly made it easier for Spanish speakers to cope, and, as I said, paying a translator to follow around every Latin player at every level of the organization just isn’t feasible.

The language barrier is the very least of it.
Keep in mind that these athletes are young, uneducated, unsophisticated kids from impoverished third world backgrounds who are being dropped into a completely new and foreign environment with very little support system.

Wait, Salcedo speaks English. Right?

I don’t want another Yunel

As long as nobody lets him near the peroxide, I think we’ll be ok.

I was actually really surprised how well Salcedo spoke English for just coming to the states, but still, there’s plenty he can’t say or understand in English.

Hopefully he tries to learn English because Yunel didn’t even try. Well he probally tried but he was to stupid

Yunel didn’t need to learn English, all he had to say was…Sex?…sex?

Rec’d, it made me laugh.

That’s just a stupid thing to say. Try learning Spanish as an adult, see how easy that is.

He came to America 20 years old I believe. If Salcedo could do it why couldn’t Yunel?

He was just about to turn 22 when he came to the US. He was in the Puerto Rico after he defected from Cuba.

And people are just different. Asking why one guy can’t do something when another can is just crazy. Why is Ryan Zimmerman in the Majors and I’m not? We grew up in the same town just a little bit apart, he’s not much bigger than me, why was he able to become a Major Leaguer and I’m on a blog talking about it? Why are some people rich and others aren’t? People are different, they’re built differently, they’re raised differently, they have the ability to learn differently. Asking why Escobar hasn’t been able to become fluent in English after 5 years shows a complete ignorance of how people learn things.

Everyone’s different and I know. I guess Yunel is like Ichiro I guess they just couldn’t learn English (which supposivly is a very hard language as a 2nd language). I can tell you Spanish Though is quite easy to learn because I am close to being fluent. And do you know why I learned Spanish? So When I am with the Braves in the Front Office (I have a internship with them and I plan to go up the ranks because my dream is to be the GM)

Ichiro actually speaks English very well, he just chooses not to.

FACTS, they always ruin good arguments

no offense Bravos Fanatic.

I hate It

I just like a good agruement, but he beat me

I'm sorry didn't know that

I can just remember him accepting his all star game MVP through a translator. I have never heard him speak english though. Link?

I don’t know that you’d ever find a link. Ichiro’s English is the worst kept secret out there. He just won’t do it where anyone can record it, but everyone says he knows it.

I actually got a hilarious video of him too

HERE

Also, good luck on the GM thing. There’s that pessimistic part of me that says, “Yeah right kid”, but then there’s the better part of me that says, “Hey, somebody’s gonna be the GM, why not you?”

I don't want to tell me my age or anything

If I did you might believe me. I will tell you though that most people dream of being a MLB player (i do play baseball though) but I can tell you I had a SAT score to get into college as a 7th grader and with almost a perfect score on math.

Although based on other repeated mistakes...

with Yunel you kind of have to wonder if he ever felt like putting in the effort to learn it. I believe you’ve said Teheran is very well spoken in English, among others, and I don’t think that came naturally to him. He probably had to work hard at it just like he’s worked hard at being a great baseball player. Some people just have a better work ethic than others.

Teheran’s English gets better and better every time I see him, but when I first met him in 08 he barely spoke a word. And it’s worth noting that he comes from a fairly well off family in a decent country, Columbia, and actually went to high school. Escobar came from Cuba, which is not a decent country, and who knows how much school he had. Julio already had a leg up on how to learn.

Just saying...

they both started at the same level on arrival (judging by your “barely spoke a word” description). One focused on improving an area where he was weak, and an area that if he worked to improve it could help. The other is Yunel, and while I probably don’t know what the hell I’m talking about, outside appearances have him as the opposite of Teheran in that the areas he was weak in on arrival (as a baseball player) are still areas where he’s weak.

Maybe I should have said “work ethic” in that last line. Maybe I should have said some some people are constantly trying to improve where they are weak; some don’t.

Again, without getting too much into one person vs. another specifically, everyone is different, and learning a language is hard. English is incredibly irregular and one of the hardest to learn. It’s amazing how man native speakers don’t do it very well.

I’ve never seen him play, but reading your minor league recaps, there were times where he seemed to win games by himself. He had some extended cold streaks, but those flashes are what you want to see from guys his age and in his situation.

At the risk of repeating myself I’m gonna throw it out there again. Just be patient and wait on Salcedo. You are not going to be disappointed.

cb said it pretty well.

it baffles me that you and gondeee want to write off a guy with a half season of minor league baseball experience that scouts have drooled over for 2 years. Hell if he hadn’t been rushed to Rome his season in the DSL would have had us all drooling.

This. If he played in the GCL like most 18 year old he would have dominated and folks would be putting him at number 1 or 2.

I think the better question is, why did he get moved up so quickly? That seemed kind of silly on the Braves’ part,

They thought he was more advanced than he was. I think if he had been able to go there in the middle of May like they wanted him to it would have been a different story. We also can’t overlook how the stuff that went on down in the DR affected him. He had to go back to deal with some family stuff and I’m sure that affected him when he came back and was so far away for the first time. The good thing is that Edward is confident in himself and struggling is going to make him work harder.

he was walking at a pretty significant rate when he was in the DSL. He appeared fairly polished. Apparently the Braves weren’t scouting their own guys hard enough?

You would think that his walk rate would have been the one thing that carried over even if he wasn’t hitting. His walk rate plummetted once he got to Rome. Very odd.

Not really. Sometimes when you’re struggling you press and start swinging at pitches you shouldn’t. Older guys know to relax and let the game come to them, to lay off the pitches they shouldn’t swing at, but young guys tend to get anxious and start flailing at pitches.

I saw Salcedo a lot this year, I made a point to. The games I saw him play were definitely not his best, and it was when he was really struggling defensively. He took his troubles on the field into the batters box, but I also saw a game where he showed good patience at the plate. He was very erratic, that was evident in person and on paper.

My biggest knock on him is his defense. I guess I have this idea that all Latino players should be more than polished defensively, and when they’re not I knock them harder for it.

I had him at 13, which I think is pretty good, and he was ahead of Simmons, who I really like a lot, so I still think well of Salcedo, just not blown away by him.

My man crush is huge. And like anyone with a crush, I just don’t understand how others don’t see what I see.

I also have seen him multiple times and his D was not great. But a move to 3rd base is always optional with his huge frame because of Lipka

He was also probably wanting to flourish to prove he's worth the money and hype...

which when he struggled a bit, would only cause him to press more, and then struggle more, and press more because of that, in a bit of a downward spiral.

I had him at 11 due to rawness and my uncertainty that his bat will play as a top flight 3B, where I think he ends up playing. If he stays at SS and is at least a league average defender, he would have been higher on my list.

Another one on Salcedo

I finally looked him up last night and got a few scouting reports and pics… no way he stays @ SS unless he’s got some “help”; he may not even be able to stick @ 3B. He will be a beast – at least physically. We’re talking 230-240 at a minimum. As long as he irons things out @ the plate, we’re talking a ceiling of a .600 SLG guy. His bat could play @ any position.

I would love to have Lipka at SS with Salcedo at 3b. They talk about him having Hanley’s frame and he will be identical if he bulks up as expected by many.

It'll be more than Hanley though

Hate to write this, but his behind is simply too big… like Andruw big. Not that it is wide or anything, but it sticks out behind him and that along with his shoulders indicates to me that he’ll be very large… think more Miguel Cabrera than Hanley Ramirez.

Gaining 35 pounds will be hard which is what he would have to gain to be equal to Hanley. But Salcedo is only 19 so you never know

Hanley

was skinny as a reed when he was 19.

Twins! (Vizcaino is on the right)

Wow, that pic looks like it was taken with my camera. At first I was like, I don’t remember taking that.

And they don’t really look alike to me.

I meant the builds of Salcedo and Hanley

Well in that case yeah, absolutely.

Still waiting for someone to post the Hanley ironing pic. Where’s RoyHobbs when you need him?

Good illustration of why Salcedo will be bigger than Hanley

As stated in the beginning of this branch – I hate to talk of this…, but look @ pic of Hanley (or another… google is great) and look at his rear end, now find a pic of Salcedo from the side and look at his. Salcedo’s sticks out further from his body (much like Andruw’s) even though it doesn’t widen his body too much now. This is typically a sign that it’ll spread as he gets older. Combine that with the fact that his shoulders are so broad (as evidenced in the pic of his shoulders against Vizcaino’s above) and you can see where I’m going… he’s just going to be an absolute monster physically. Hopefully, his baseball skills will also grow to match… we can all hope!!

You are paying way too close of attention to major leaguers’ butts my friend.

The one who I think is overrated here is Vizcaino.

I love the stuff, but I just don’t trust the arm to hold up. I think it is very likely he ends up being converted to a relief role. That, in my opinion, drops him down the list a bit.

We’ve only had him one season, it’s not really fair to speculate on his durability at this point based on a non-serious arm injury.

To be fair, he did have a back injury that took out his last month of 2009. It seems crazy that he wouldn’t be durable, he’s a big horse of a guy.

There hasn't been a single report saying whether...

his last appearance and the injury that took him out of it is serious or not. So you can’t say it is or isn’t serious. And if I’m not mistaken, that’s 3 seasons in a row for the guy cut short because of injury. Some of it might be precaution, but I think his durability is a lot more questionable than you’re making it out to be.

Salcedo looks like a total beast in that picture,

and I have him at 8th, just like TC does. I really think he’s going to blow up in the next two years.

I put him 6th, and agree with everything you said. Sounds like he is finding his way in Instructs. Rbravesfan probably saw him more than anyone and seems convinced, CB seems convinced, I really respect his opinion, Wren has been talking about him too. He’s had a strange path to get here, I hope he sees a lot of success in 2011. I’ve seen comps to ARod, Hanley Ramirez and now Tulo, I’m looking forward to seeing him myself.

It’s getting very difficult to temper expectations for him.

Next year’s MLRs are going to be insane. JT, Delgado, Vizzy, and Perez tearing up the competition, Salcedo and Lipka coming into their own, seeing if guys like Hoover and Oberholtzer can make the big step towards the Major Leagues, and so on. Should be a great time.

Recaps are the best

I stay up late nights sometimes waiting on them. Otherwise, they are my 1st thing to check in the morning. I’ve only had internet access for 2 years, it’s amazing what a baseball maniac it has turned me into.

Yes sir. Gotta love all the baseball coverage.

+1

Usually it’s the 1st thing I read in the morning, once I get into work. Recaps with the morning coffee rule.

Which turns into hours of TC and little work done..

I read somewhere (I think it was DOB’s or Bowman’s blog) that Vizcaino was in instructs and throwing 97-98 just recently. His partially torn tendon in his elbow has fully healed (is that even possible?). Can anyone else provide some more information if they know of any?

It can heal, though I’m pretty sure the risk of retearing it is much higher and it usually tears worse the second time. I could be wrong on that though.

Link please?

since reading the linked above recap of his last game this year, I’ve been looking for a report on his injury everywhere. Would love to see something that says he’s healthy and pitching strong.

Sorry I can’t find it. That is why I was asking if anyone else had read that and if someone can verify how true it was.

It was Bowman's...

gimme a sec

Apologies

Got a phone call

Speaking of Arodys Vizcaino, a scout said that he saw him touch 96 during an Instructional League game a couple months ago. That’s very encouraging considering it appeared the 20-year-old right-hander’s elbow was ailing to the point that it appeared he would eventually need to undergo Tommy John surgery this past summer.

Link

Uggla extension

Rumored at 5 years $60 million on MLBTR. Love it!

Salcedo

It’s real easy to knock the kid for not producing, making tons of errors..yada, yada, yada. Lest we forget:
Chipper – .229 1 18RBI #49 rated prospect. He batted .326 the next year in Macon. He made 56 errors! (I’m glad the people hating on Salcedo aren’t running the organization)!

Salcedo .297 GCL, .197 at Rome, 35 errors. To me the difference is that Chipper played a lot of baseball. Took his lumps in rookie ball and began his rise upon getting to Low-A. Salcedo will need a repeat. In the Instructs he has done very well and I trust that. He will rebound.

to be fair Chipper ended up moving to 3B, bc he wasnt any good at SS… a big part of hte argument here is that Salcedo cannot play SS, and if he moves to 3B, he may not be a good enough hitter to support that position (which i think is a ridiculous assertion, but to each their own).

if Salcedo moves to 3B, he is drastically less valuable than if he stays at SS. And theres the whole comparison thing, which rarely works out well for anyone

See below and Jeter

and he’s stuck at SS, even winning multiple Gold Gloves there!

I can’t tell if you are baiting me or being serious….show your true colors Sanchez!!!!!!

See below, I'm serious...

Jeter as an 18 yr old in his first time in professional baseball player. He’s no GREATEST EVAH, but the guy’s been a damn good bat, and decent fielder. Overrated if you will, but at the level he’s overrated, that leaves a lot of room to still be really [expletive] good.

Jeter was a 11 months younger, but .210/.311/.314 with 21 errors in 58 games (47 of which were in the GCL though, the other 11 at A ball). He then made 56 errors in 126 games his first full season in the SALLY at Salcedo’s age last year

Salcedo .197/.239/.295 in 54 games with 28 errors (in Rome, so not counting DSL). Yes, it’s worse, but it’s also exclusively two steps higher in level, and adding the living in a new country for the first time effect too that Jeter lacks.

And since he’s been thrown around as the comp, Hanley Ramirez had 27 errors in 62 games (45 in the GCL, another 17 in the NY Penn/A-), and 36 his first full year in A ball at 19 (in 102 games). He did hit a lot better though .352/.401/.548.

Chipper and Jeter were the two guys Johnny Almaraz brought up to me when we were talking about Salcedo.

Chipper

He moved to 3B because of a serious knee injury not because he wasn’t any good at short.

This. Kind of hurts your range.

stop it….i am ignoring facts here.

"It’s real easy to knock the kid for not producing, making tons of errors..yada, yada, yada. Lest we forget:"

See Derek Jeter too
A 3 slash batting line of .210/.311/.314, with 21 errors in 57 games. I’d say he turned out a little better than that.

People see the money. The bonus baby, the “tools,” and think he’s supposed to hit .350 with 30 HR’s and 100RBI. I can you from SEEING them with my eyes and OPINION, the scouts know what they have in Salcedo. I’m blessed to live a little of an hour from Rome. I got to see Teheran, Perez, Vizcaino, Salcedo..I’m just gushing about the talent.

Ok, I really forgot my point except that Salcedo is going to be good. Whether it be at SS or 3B. He’s got plenty of good actions at SS though. The three times I saw him, he got to balls that others would not have. He made two errors. One in which he went to the hole and i had already marked a single! After that he pressed..

Salcedo

I just can’t wait to see how he does next season! All reports from instructs have been great, I really hope he does it when it counts. Also when I saw the kid he doesn’t look like someone who’ll be moving off short anytime soon.

He is going to be the next Hanley from all the scouting reports and the few games I have seen him. I can’t believe we have to wait 3 month till ST

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