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Behind the HOF Ballot: A Tribute to Some Former Braves

Dale Murphy is one of the best Braves of all time, but is he a Hall-of-Famer?

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Dale Murphy is one of the best Braves of all time, but is he a Hall-of-Famer?

As I'm sure you have heard, the 2011 Baseball Hall of Fame ballot was released a while back. While the players who are likely to get in have no real connections to the Braves, there are six former Braves on the ballot. Since none of those players will get in this year (or ever, most likely), I thought I'd take some time on this lazy Sunday to remember their careers and what they meant to the Braves.

I've listed the players in order of how much they meant to the Braves (on a scale of 1-10, with 10 being "Hank Aaron" and 1 being "Jo-Jo Reyes"). For each player, I included some career stats, his stats with the Braves, his best moment as a Brave, a brief recap of his career, and my prediction for his vote percentage on this year's ballot.

Dale Murphy (Braves Rating: 9)

The Murph is the quintessential Brave: quiet, professional, and an all-around good guy. With a Braves career that lasted from 1976 to 1990, he also nearly bridged the gap from the Hank Aaron Era and the Bobby Cox Dynasty. For most of  those years, Dale Murphy was the Braves. He worked hard to make himself a good centerfielder after converting from catcher early in his career. Though his peak was short, it was quite impressive: from 1980 to 1987, he averaged 33 homers, a .284 / .374 / .517 line (a 140 OPS+) and 5.2 WAR. If he had just been able to maintain that production for 2-3 more years instead of falling off a cliff after 1987, he might already be in the Hall.

Career Stats (18 Seasons): .265 / .346 / .469 (121 OPS+), 398 HRs, 44.2 WAR
Awards: 2 MVPs (1982 & 1983), 7-time All Star, 5 Gold Gloves, 4 Silver Sluggers
Best Season (1987): .295 / .417 / .580 (157 OPS+), 44 HRs, 7.5 WAR, +10 fielding runs

Braves Stats (15 seasons): .268 / .351 / .478 (125 OPS+), 371 HRs, 45.7 WAR
Top Braves Moment: In 1982, leading the Braves to their first playoff appearance since 1969.
Predicted Vote: 12%

Fred McGriff (Braves Rating: 7)

I think the Crime Dog is one of the most underrated players of his era. His numbers didn't seem that huge during the 90s, when other players were exploiting the Steroid Era to ridiculous levels, but he was a legitimately great hitter for a long period of time. For 10 years (1987-1996), he never posted an OBP below .361 or a SLG below .489. He led the league in homers twice before the Steroid Era truly hit. He was even a good player for a while after his peak, not truly slowing down until 2003, when he was 39. He started on our only World Series-winning team, too. Plus, he had a Hall-of-Fame nickname.

Career Stats (19 Seasons): .284 / .377 / .509 (134 OPS+), 493 HRs, 50.5 WAR
Awards: 5-time All Star, 4 Silver Sluggers, All-Star Game MVP (1994); received MVP votes in 8 seasons.
Best Season (1989): .269 / .399 / .525 (166 OPS+), 36 HRs, 6.6 WAR, +5 fielding runs

Braves Stats (5 seasons): .293 / .369 / .516 (128 OPS+), 130 HRs, 10.9 WAR
Top Braves Moment: Lighting a fire under the Braves after being traded here in 1993, helping us overtake the Giants in the Last Great Pennant Chase.
Predicted Vote: 25%

More after the jump.

Star-divide

Marquis Grissom (Braves Rating: 5)

Marquis was only here for two seasons, but those seasons were very successful, both for him and for the Braves. He won Gold Gloves both years and got 207 hits in 1996 (only Ralph Garr and Felipe Alou have had more as an Atlanta Brave). The Braves won the World Series in 1995, and were just a Leyritz away from repeating in 1996. Grissom even caught the last out of the 1995 series--probably the greatest single moment in Atlanta Braves history. Early in his career, he was a fantastic defender and stolen base threat (he lead the NL in steals in 1991 and 1992). He was never really a star player, but he had some good years. I'll always remember him fondly.

Career Stats (17 Seasons): .272 / .318 / .415 (92 OPS+), 227 HRs, 429 SBs, 25.6 WAR
Awards: 2-time All Star, 4 Gold Gloves; received MVP votes in 4 seasons
Best Season (1992): .276 / .322 / .418 (110 OPS+), 14 HRs, 78 SBs, 5.6 WAR, +6 fielding runs (you could make an argument for his 1993 or 1996 seasons, too)

Braves Stats (2 seasons): .286 / .335 / .448 (99 OPS+), 35 HRs, 57 SBs, 5.0 WAR
Top Braves Moment: The last out of 1995: "The Atlanta Braves have given you a championship!!!!"
Predicted Vote: 1%

B.J. Surhoff (Braves Rating: 2)

It's easy to forget this, but Surhoff had a damn good career. Sure, by the time he got to Atlanta, he was just a below-average-hitting left-fielder, but he was a very good and consistent player for Baltimore and Milwaukee. He had an interesting career path, starting as a catcher, then moving to third base, until finally ending up in left field (and DH). He played games at every position except pitcher in his career. He didn't really help the Braves much, but he was a regular on the mediocre division-winning 2001 team. Obviously not a Hall-of-Famer, but that's not an insult; not many players have 19-year careers.

Career Stats (19 Seasons): .282 / .332 / .413 (98 OPS+), 188 HRs, 34.4 WAR
Awards: All Star in 1999; received MVP votes in 1 season
Best Season (1999): .308 / .347 / .492 (115 OPS+), 28 HRs, 4.4 WAR, +16 fielding runs

Braves Stats (3 seasons): .277 / .332 / .402 (87 OPS+), 11 HRs, 0.9 WAR
Top Braves Moment: Homering in Game 2 of the 2001 NLCS, an 8-1 Braves win over the eventual WS Champion Diamondbacks
Predicted Vote: 0%

Bret Boone (Braves Rating: 2)

Boone's first 9 years in the majors were workmanlike; sure he had a couple good years for Cincinnati, but most years he was a bit below average. That includes his one year in Atlanta, when he hit 20 homers but didn't do much else right. Then, out of nowhere, he exploded in Seattle from 2001-2003, hitting 96 homers and putting up 20.3 WAR. Immediately after that, he went back to being below average, but those three years were amazing. He was also excellent in the 1999 playoffs for the Braves, which should count for something.

Career Stats (14 Seasons): .266 / .325 / .442 (101 OPS+), 252 HRs, 21.4 WAR

Awards: 2-time All-Star, 4 Gold Gloves, 2 Silver Sluggers, received MVP votes in 3 seasons
Best Season (2001): .331 / .372 / .578 (153 OPS+), 37 HRs, 9.3 WAR, +11 fielding runs

Braves Stats (1 season): .252 / .310 / .416 (82 OPS+), 20 HRs, 0.6 WAR
Top Braves Moment: Going 7/13 with 4 doubles in the 1999 World Series
Predicted Vote: 0%

Raul Mondesi (Braves Rating: 1)

When talking about Raul Mondesi, it really helps to forget that he ever played for the Braves. That shouldn't be too hard, since he really, really sucked for us and didn't make it past May before being released. He did have some very good years in his career, but he was basically washed up by age 33. Mondesi was probably best known for his cannon arm (112 career OF assists) and his two 30 homer/30 steal seasons in 1997 in 1999. It was a nice career, even if it ended with a miserable 2 months in Atlanta.

Career Stats (13 Seasons): .273 / .331 / .485 (113 OPS+), 271 HRs, 229 SBs, 27.2 WAR

Awards: 1994 Rookie of the Year, 1995 All-Star, 2 Gold Gloves, received MVP votes in 1997
Best Season (1997): .310 / .360 / .541 (140 OPS+), 30 HRs, 32 SBs, 5.8 WAR, +11 fielding runs

Braves Stats (1 season): .211 / .271 / .359 (63 OPS+), 4 HRs, -0.1 WAR
Top Braves Moment: Hitting a walkoff homer on April 30, 2005 against the Cardinals.
Predicted Vote: 0%

As for the rest of the ballot, I think Jeff Bagwell and Bert Blyleven are no-brainers; I'd also vote for Roberto Alomar, Barry Larkin, and Alan Trammell without thinking twice. Beyond that, I'm not sure; I'm on the fence with Edgar Martinez, Tim Raines, Lee Smith, and Kevin Brown (yes, really--go back and look at his career), but I probably wouldn't vote for any of them. As for Mark McGwire and Rafael Palmeiro, I just don't think that they would have done enough to make the Hall if they hadn't been on steroids. That's a judgment call, obviously, but I can't justify voting for either.

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Comments

Raines is a no brainer too. He is the second best leadoff hitter of all time. He just happened to be playing when what is easily the greatest leadoff hitter of all time was playing. If Lou Brock is in, Tim Raines is in. Otherwise, everyone else you’d vote in deserve it. And probably McGriff should be in if he wasn’t being compared to McGwire and company.

this on Raines…no way he shouldnt be in the hall

808 stolen bases. A slash line of 294/385/425. An OPS+ of 123. Led the league in steals four times and stole more than 50 four more times. Seven time all-star. Seven times got MVP votes. Eight times scored 90 or more runs.

Sounds like HOFer to me.

Also won a batting title to boot, if that matters.

I agree with you…i think it is criminal if he isn’t in the Hall, unfortunately we are in a day when a player of his skill set isnt revered and he isnt the best player with his skill set of his generation.

but he is definately deserving of the Hall

I love what Raines did in his peak,

but like Murphy, his peak just wasn’t that long. The advantage he has over Dale is that he did hang on for a while after that, but we’re still just talking about 10 years of peak. I want to vote for him, but it’s a very borderline case.

Raines

3,977 Times on base (44th all-time). 22 more times on base than Tony Gwynn, 144 more times on base than Lou Brock, 321 more times on base than Roberto Clemente, 503 more times on base than Andre Dawson, 791 more times on base than Jim Rice, 796 more times on base than Ryne Sandberg, 1167 more times on base than Kirby Puckett.

808 stolen bases (5th all time) with a 84.7% success rate. Which is 3.9% higher than Rickey’s, 9.4% higher than Brock’s, 3.8% higher than Vince Coleman’s, 5.4% higher than Lofton’s.

The guy has a better career OPS+ than people like Ernie Banks, Paul Molitor, Tony Perez, Andre Dawson, Robin Yount, Ryne Sandberg, Cal Ripken…

And the guy walked 364 more times than he struck out.

To me it seems like Raines gets the shaft because his best seasons came playing in a town that no longer has baseball, and because he was patient and drew too many walks to get to that magical 3,000 hit mark, even though he got on base plenty enough to qualify in my book.

Not to mention the in ’87 collusion which forced him to miss spring training and the first month of the season and he still led the NL in runs scored with 123 in 139 games.

obviously anyone who ever played RBI Baseball knows the awesomeness that is Tim “Rock” Raines

so he has that going for him

Nice write-up, thanks

why don’t you think Edgar Martinez should be in? The whole DH thing?

i think he'll get in, but...

not on the first ballot. he was consistently good with good power and excellent average, however his stats as a whole aren’t overwhelming. i think int will take a couple years for him to get in. and btw when you click “edgar martinez” it goes to the player from boston, not the retired one from seattle. just thought it was funny

Pretty much.

It’s a tough call; if his numbers were a bit better or if he had spent a bit more time playing in the field, he’d be on my ballot for sure.

His numbers are HoF worthy to me,

he was a career .312/.418/.515 hitter with an OPS+ of 147 over 18 seasons, and one of the only guys along with Chipper to pull off the career line of .300/.400/.500.

For comparison, Chipper currently has a .306/.405/.536 line with an OPS+ of 142 over 17 seasons, and I’d say most of us here at TC would call Chipper a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

he was also an avg defender at 3B, for his career, providing value in addition to his offense.

My own ballot if I had one.

Who I’d vote for

Jack Morris- though with a bit of a snarl due to 91.
Barry Larkin
Lee Smith
Tim Raines
Alan Tramell
Jeff Bagwell
Dale Murphy
Fred McGriff
Roberto Alomar
Larry Walker

Blyleven was way better than Morris. He mostly gets attention because he was on a few good teams in the 80s and early 90s.

Agreed.

If you look at Morris’ numbers, there’s just nothing impressive there at all (outside of the postseason). Blyleven literally was twice as valuable in his career as Morris was.

I can’t justify putting a man into the hall for one game. I mean, aside from that, he’s basically Kevin Millwood.

That Marquis catch to end the 95 WS is still clearly etched in my mind.

I had a baseball game for my Sega Game Gear (World Series Baseball ’96 I think) as a kid and the Crime Dog and Grissom became some of my favorite players via that and their actual play.

Great write-up

thanks for the memories. For some reason, I thought Boone played more than just one year for us. I always assumed he started PEDing in either Atl or Sea.

BTW — I always look for an excuse to post this.

boone was on the mitchell report

i’m pretty sure

I think you're right
Tho wikipedia doesnt seem to agree
Alomar

Roberto was truly a wizard at 2B…he was the Ozzie Smith of 2nd. I always loved watching him play

I think that Fred McGriff deserves a place in the Hall. He’s like the hitting Bert Blyleven, maybe he wasn’t the most dominate player in his era, but was quietly excellent for over 15 seasons. His career numbers are also very similar to some other great HOF players like Willy McCovey, Willy Stargell and Billy Williams.

ya but Bert blyleven isn’t in the hall, so if McGriff is like him, then he shouldn’t be in either

the point is that though they will probably get overlooked, at least for a long while they both have numbers both totals, and ratios deserving of the Hall of Fame.

The Jets

The football version of the Mets.

McGriff literally lit a fire under the Braves. I remember when he was traded to the Braves, his first game was delayed because there was a fire in the press box at Atlanta Fulton County Stadium.
If Andre Dawson is in the Hall; Murphy and McGriff definitely belong there too, but whatever.

Freddie is going to make it.

It will take a while, but he can’t be ignored with those numbers, achieved cleanly while others were cheating.

I’m not sanguine about Dale, but that’s the Hall’s loss more than it is his.

Dale Murphy – I feel he deserves to be in the Hall, but he clearly will not be voted in until the veteran’s committee gives him a pass many years down the road.

Crime Dog – Has numbers similar to a few others who are in the Hall already. And he posted great numbers in an era when most of the “big dogs” were juicing. It’ll be a crime if he doesn’t get into the Hall eventually.

I agree with this entire write-up, except I’d probably vote for Lee Smith and Tim Raines.

Good Times.
And great to see a mention of Felipe Alou, and excellent player on the Braves team of my childhood.

Felipe was a very underrated player,

though he was a somewhat overrated manager.

Grissom even caught the last out of the 1995 series

Probably the greatest single moment in Atlanta Braves history?
I’m going to have to go with “When Sid Slid.”

It wasnt Willie Harris' 6-hit game?
My ballot:

Barry Larkin
Bert Blyleven
Lee Smith
Kevin Brown
Tim Raines
Alan Tramell
Jeff Bagwell
Dale Murphy
Fred McGriff
Roberto Alomar
Larry Walker
Edgar Martinez

Jack Morris gets too much credit for pitching one game, and was otherwise good, not great. Kinda the opposite of Larry Walker who gets too little credit because he played in Colorado.

you can only vote for ten, so trim it down a couple.

Since I can only REALLY vote for zero...

I don’t have a vote, I’ll list whoever I like. :)

The thing

I remember most about BJ Surhoff was him crying when he got traded to the Braves. He wanted to play his career in Baltimore, and I understand that, but I knew right then, he wasn’t gonna do crap for us.

I don't think it was wanting Baltimore...

as much as the proximity to his family. If I’m not mistaken, his family had a serious health issue at the time.

His son is autistic.

His wife is from Maryland and his son was receiving cutting edge treatment at Johns Hopkins, so uprooting them probably wasn’t something he was liable to be too happy about. He was obviously unhappy here. It was just a bad match from the start.

Thanks Sam

I thought there were serious family medical issues behind his not wanting to come here.

My Hall ballot

Blyleven
R.Alomar
Larkin
Bagwell
McGriff
E.Martinez
McGwire
J.Gonzalez
L.Smith
Palmeiro
L.Walker

Deserving of a vote just for vote’s sake: Lenny Harris, the game’s best pinch hitter of my lifetime

D'oh

When I added in McGriff, I somehow deleted Raines and Murphy.

Not sure if you realize this,

but Lenny Harris really, really sucked. Below 0 WAR in his career. Brooks Conrad put up more PH value in 2010 alone than Lenny did his whole career. The only thing Lenny had was that he stuck around for years and years, compiling PHs.

Yikes

i never said he should be in. I said I’d give him a Jim DeShaies type of single vote just so he got one.

Plus

He was an obnoxious asshole.

You can’y vote in 11 guys. 10’s the limit.

Seeing as...

…I don’t vote at all, I’m making a case for who I want to see make it, that’s all. Thanks for not getting it at all, though!

My ballot, for whatever it's worth...

…and according to the Hall folks, it ain’t much.

Dale Murphy
Tim Raines
Fred McGriff
Barry Larkin
Roberto Alomar
Bert Blyleven

McGwire and Palmiero are out for the obvious reason. Morris…maybe it’s bitterness, but for me he just doesn’t get there. Trammell and Parker I’m on the fence about. Martinez…great numbers but the DH thing really hurts him in my eyes.

Ill throw out my ballot

Roberto Alomar
Tim Raines
Bagwell

I would consider Walker and Edgar, but ultimately leave them off

What is it...

About Edgar Martinez that some of you don’t like, concerning his HoF credentials? Ok, I get the whole “DH thing.” As a fan of the NL I don’t much care for DH rule, but offensive stats are offensive stats and the designated hitter has been a valid position in the Majors since (pause for 20 seconds of research) 1973. Martinez was clearly one of the best, if not the best full-time DHs to ever play the game.

I think you can weigh a vote towards players who played the field for all or most of their careers. Martinez played primarily 3B until (pause for 20 more seconds research) 1995 when he injured his knees. During those years he hovered just to one side or another of the league average for third baseman, as derived from “old school” defensive statistics like Fld% and lgRF9. (I’d look up his WAR numbers, but I don’t know where those are compiled and I’m fresh out of 20-second research timeouts.) This tells me that had he not injured his knees so early in his MLB career, he would have been at least an adequate glove at third until the ravages of age started doing its thing.

This entire “DH thing” needs to be taken out back and shot. If a player that can be said to be the “one of the top ten 1B of all time” deserves recognition in the Hall, I would argue that someone who is easily a top five DH going back to the day the position was created and sanctioned by Major League Baseball also deserves to be in.

I know cede the soapbox.

Errr...

I now cede the soapbox. Geez…

the thing for me personally if that to be elected into the HoF you need to be the best of your generation. the more I think about it I probably wouldnt elect Bagwell in…so the only people on the ballot i would vote in are Raines, the best leadoff hitter not named Ricky, and Roberto Alomar who might be the best 2B ever (I dont think he is, but its close enough to argue).

I don’t know i count it as a negative that he was a DH. I would say if there is any DH who deserves to be in its Edgar, and if Paul Molitar is in, so shoudl Edgar…he’s a close call for me.

according to fangraphs, he was worth 72 WAR in his career

for comparison sake Andre Dawson was 63, Dale Murphy was 48, Reggie Jackson at 82, and Paul Molitar at 75.

Molitar is probably the fairest comparison, because he is the best DH in the Hall.

Thanks for the info.

I can respect your reasoning concerning the criteria for being worthy of election to the Hall, and I subscribe to it to a certain extent. Was Edgar the best of his generation? Not even close. Was he one of the best of his generation? At DH and as a force in his team’s lineup for a long stretch of time, absolutely he was.

It isn’t really that close of a call for me, but I can see why it would be a close call for someone else. I guess that is why I would vote for someone like Dale Murphy to be in the HoF, because one would be hard pressed to find a more dominate player in the 80’s than him.

well i can think of a fair amount of players (around 10 or so) that were more dominate than Dale, but I’m not making any lists at the risk it turns into a month long fight between Sanchez and Justin.

but thats just me.

when it comes to the hall, my general rule is if I have to think about it and its close, they shouldn’t be in, which presents a slippery slope argument, but I don’t care. For me, Alomar and Raines are no brainers, but Edgar was close so I adhered to my rule.

I like this rule as well...

And use it anytime these Bronco fans here in Denver complain about some players not making the HoF.

Best on your team for a generation is one thing…best in the league for a generation is another entirely.

-C

see i dont even care if you are best of a generation, if the generation sucks why should I care if you were the best. for example Football in the 70s, wasnt that good if you were the best QB of the early 70s, you werent that good, you just played against a bunch of other shitty QBs….i am probably wrong here and I am sure there is someone int he early 70s I am forgetting (and if you say Joe Namath I will stab you in the eye)

I don’t like the way people seem to discredit the guy for being a DH. First, it’s not his fault—his coach wrote the lineup cards, not him. Second, by not playing the field, he likely improved his value to his team. Looking at it as a WAR issue, his career numbers would likely go DOWN if he “contributed” in the field more often. He was most valuable as a DH, and is pretty much the best one we’ve seen so far..

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