There are idiots across the web that badmouth Bobby Cox for only winning 1 WS during his long run. Watching and listening to him talk about winning 91 games and the WC with a completely revamped/replaced infield is all it takes to prove every one of those idiots wrong.
Bobby absolutely deserves to be criticized for his postseason failures? Have you looked at his postseason batting average, on base percentage, and slugging percentage through the 91-05 playoff campaigns? They’re abysmal!
First, I can’t tell if you are joking or not, but Bobby has zero AB’s during the ‘91-’05 playoffs. Second, I’ve been on several sites with troll infestations that are badmouthing him relentlessly. I honestly think Chipper, Torre, LaRussa, Sheffield, the umpires and the Commish know more about baseball that a bunch of internet posters. Does Bobby have a great post-season legacy? One for fourteen says no. Is Bobby Cox a great Manager? Baseball people say yes.
This season has been an education in Small Sample Size, every playoff series is between 2 very good teams, anything can happen in those situations. Atlanta might should have won 3 WS during that run, probably had the best team in half of them. The best team doesn’t always win.
Concerning criticism of Bobby Cox on "only" winning one World Series in 15 post season appearances,
I wish I could say I’m going to put in my two cents’ worth, but the following is something from someone else that I saved. Someone with a much more optimistic viewpoint that even I have. I can’t recall who this is from, but hope y’all believe it’s as good a read as I do.
Think about it
The one criticism that Bobby Cox endures is that in 15 postseason appearances — he led Toronto to the first playoff appearance in franchise history before returning to Atlanta for the record-setting 14 division titles in a row — is that he has only one world championship — in 1995. And he is haunted by having taken a 2-0 lead in 1996 only to see the Yankees rally to win the World Series for the first of what became four world championships in five years.
Cox, however, not only managed the Braves to those division titles, but he was the general manager who put the foundation for the success in place before John Schuerholz took over the front office job when Cox returned to the dugout.
Cox also is fourth all-time in victories and the only manager other than Joe McCarthy to manage six 100-game winners.
And while he has managed only one world championship:
Since Cox returned to the dugout in Atlanta midway in the 1990 season, there are only four franchises that have won more than one World Series — the Yankees (1996, 1998, 1999, 2000 and 2009), Boston (2004 and 2007), Toronto (1992 and 1993) and Florida (1997 and 2003).
Since Cox returned to the dugout in Atlanta midway in the 1990 season, eight teams haven’t even played in the World Series — Baltimore, Kansas City, Seattle, Texas, Washington/Montreal, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and the Los Angeles Dodgers.
Eight teams have never won a World Series in their existence — Seattle, Texas, Washington/Montreal, Houston, Milwaukee, Colorado, Tampa Bay and San Diego.
Three teams have never even played in a World Series — Washington/Montreal, Seattle and Texas.
Here’s something about Bobby Cox that I find amazing: In the Braves’ 14-season playoff run, 1991-2005, the Braves had nine different pitchers who had 15 or more saves in a season. They had six pitchers BESIDES the Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz trio who won 15 or more games in a season. They had 17 players who hit 20 or more homers, and 10 players who stole 20 or more bases and 13 players who hit .300 or better in a full season.
I think this only begins to tell you just how good a manager Bobby Cox has been. The Braves always SEEMED the same, but they never really were the same. They had seven different Opening Day catchers in the playoff run, nine different first basemen, seven different second basemen, four different shortstops, and so on. The Braves even had five different Opening Day third basemen, even with Chipper Jones (you will remember he moved to the outfield for a while).
Looking back it seems clear: The Braves’ apparent consistency was an optical illusion, a magic trick, pulled off by three great pitchers and a manager who, perhaps better than anyone in baseball history, understood the rhythms and quirks of a long baseball season
It made me remember my favorite Braves stat. Starting with the ‘91 WS team, the Braves average age of it’s opening day roster actually dropped for 4 years in a row. That’s dropping a lot of veterans and bringing in a lot of rookies year after year.
There is no denying that Bobby Cox is a great manager. However, even in my most optimistic view, I think it is a very fair assessment to question Bobby’s in-game strategy during the playoffs. Bobby has the right temperament and that loyalty to get the most out of most of his players…there is no debate about that. His going with his gut coaching, however, does get magnified in the playoffs.
Sure some bad luck was the reason of many of the Braves’s playoff demise. However, it is not that hard to find examples of places where Bobby erred by leaving someone in for too long or to not send the runner, etc. in the playoffs. I think it is fair to criticize Cox for some of that.
Bobby is not a great in-game strategist, imho.
Sidebar:
1. It’s very odd how Diory was shaking his champagne.
2. Mike Dunn: only this being Cox’s last season could a relative rookie and newcomer to the team spray a whole bottle over Bobby, you think?
All the people voting 5s and 6s in the FCP should watch these videos.
It’s so awesome to see Bobby grinning from ear to ear as the players carry him around on their shoulders. This team came through for Bobby in the end, and put that big ol’ grin on his face. How anyone could think this team is mediocre after seeing what they did for Bobby in his last season is just beyond me.
I’m ecstatic as the next guy about Bobby getting one last playoff run here. This is not to say I don’t have concerns about the matchup and the Braves ability to win on the road/in San Fran/against LHP. This is not to say that I’m claiming the Braves can’t win the NLDS. Far from it. I think the Giants are beatable, but the team has to play better defense and continue to get quality from our pitchers.
I'm practically giddy after seeing all the video clips and photos of the celebration yesterday.
FYI – Updated the original FanPost to add a couple of Postseason graphics
In case anyone wants to make a Tshirt iron-on for the playoffs. – - CLICK HERE – -
I will never listen to what the great ESPN talking heads have to say
Its better to be the team everyone counts out. What do you have to lose? I really feel that the Braves are going to be able to play looser than the Giants will be. Every time this year the odds and talking heads were against us, the Braves responded in resounding fashion. No reason to believe that they will do otherwise
I was actually surprised to see Gomez for the Braves.
Not because he was in disagreement with all the other pundits, but he seemed to be buried so far up Barry Bonds’ ass for years. Never would have expected him to lean toward anyone battling the Giants.
Outside of Pedro, the rest of these guys can get bent.
I love Olney’s reasoning (that we have a relatively weak offense and they have excellent pitching…) Thanks, doofus. That’s an accurate scouting report for both teams, which suggests a five game series, to me.
to be fair, the Giants do have homefield and the Braves have a pretty bad road record
if I’m being impartial, I would probably pick Giants in 5…nevertheless, I do believe these Braves will embrace the underdog role (actually, I think they will do better with little to no pressure rather than being the favorite)
I saw me in the second one! It was so great being there for that. Another thing the players were doing was using the Tomahawk t\Teams t-shirt guns to shoot t-shirts into the crowd. I’m pretty sure I saw at least one partially filled can of beer get launched by B-Mac. Also, as Tommy Hanson was about to go back into the clubhouse, he took off his beer-and champagne soaked Wildcard t-shirt and threw it up over the dugout, in my general direction. Again, I am old, and the young whippersnapper next to me got it. A good time was had by all!
I noticed that too. We have heard all year about the team chemistry. I think we got a taste of it yesterday. It was so much fun seeing the team just lose themselves in the moment. For me it was a great memory that I will always remember about this team. I too was glad I was there to see it.
I am very envious of you. I had tried to get tickets for yesterday a few weeks ago and deemed them too expensive, but this would have been absolutely priceless to witness. Glad you had a great time!
And the Tommy fangirl in me wants to hunt the person who caught his t-shirt. But I will restrain myself simply because I’m lazy.
I didnt realize that he batted during the post season,maybe their recird would have beeb better if he had,I think hes a class act cause he always stood behind his players and if they didnt give 100% hed bench them I do agree that in my opinion he made or didnt make the correct move and more times than not stood behind a player too long but one must respect him for his ways.
I was in Left Field during the game and was in the crowd last night when we clinched the Wild Card. I am looking forward to seeing more clips of this one Youtube. The crowds were unbelievable this weekend. I went Friday night as well. This has been a special year for attending games. I got to see Heyward’s first homer, Lowe strike out 12, last Monday’s 11 inning thriller and yesterday’s thriller. By the way, as for home runs, I am trying to decide which was a bigger bomb, the Heyward homer or Derek Lee’s shot from yesterday. As I said, I was in left field and that was a rocket. Anyway, it’s been a great season and I am looking forward to more magic this week.
Who gave Freddie and Jason booze?
Georgia ABC may pay a visit to the Braves clubhouse…
PMWiley - October 4, 2010
they're both legal
Freddie turned 21 on September 12th
nuftjedi - October 4, 2010
That was a joke
PMWiley - October 4, 2010
my bday too woooo
-1 - October 4, 2010
I’m jealous
MBL1 - October 4, 2010 via mobile
That was great....thanks
There are idiots across the web that badmouth Bobby Cox for only winning 1 WS during his long run. Watching and listening to him talk about winning 91 games and the WC with a completely revamped/replaced infield is all it takes to prove every one of those idiots wrong.
bighop - October 4, 2010
Are you kidding?
Bobby absolutely deserves to be criticized for his postseason failures? Have you looked at his postseason batting average, on base percentage, and slugging percentage through the 91-05 playoff campaigns? They’re abysmal!
UMDBHIK - October 4, 2010
That first sentence was supposed to have an exclamation point rather than a question mark. I totally ruined that.
UMDBHIK - October 4, 2010
First, I can’t tell if you are joking or not, but Bobby has zero AB’s during the ‘91-’05 playoffs. Second, I’ve been on several sites with troll infestations that are badmouthing him relentlessly. I honestly think Chipper, Torre, LaRussa, Sheffield, the umpires and the Commish know more about baseball that a bunch of internet posters. Does Bobby have a great post-season legacy? One for fourteen says no. Is Bobby Cox a great Manager? Baseball people say yes.
bighop - October 4, 2010
The thing is, people notice the bad things way more often than the good things.
MBL1 - October 4, 2010
Absolutely
This season has been an education in Small Sample Size, every playoff series is between 2 very good teams, anything can happen in those situations. Atlanta might should have won 3 WS during that run, probably had the best team in half of them. The best team doesn’t always win.
bighop - October 4, 2010
Concerning criticism of Bobby Cox on "only" winning one World Series in 15 post season appearances,
I wish I could say I’m going to put in my two cents’ worth, but the following is something from someone else that I saved. Someone with a much more optimistic viewpoint that even I have. I can’t recall who this is from, but hope y’all believe it’s as good a read as I do.
Think about it
The one criticism that Bobby Cox endures is that in 15 postseason appearances — he led Toronto to the first playoff appearance in franchise history before returning to Atlanta for the record-setting 14 division titles in a row — is that he has only one world championship — in 1995. And he is haunted by having taken a 2-0 lead in 1996 only to see the Yankees rally to win the World Series for the first of what became four world championships in five years.
Cox, however, not only managed the Braves to those division titles, but he was the general manager who put the foundation for the success in place before John Schuerholz took over the front office job when Cox returned to the dugout.
Cox also is fourth all-time in victories and the only manager other than Joe McCarthy to manage six 100-game winners.
And while he has managed only one world championship:
Since Cox returned to the dugout in Atlanta midway in the 1990 season, there are only four franchises that have won more than one World Series — the Yankees (1996, 1998, 1999, 2000 and 2009), Boston (2004 and 2007), Toronto (1992 and 1993) and Florida (1997 and 2003).
Since Cox returned to the dugout in Atlanta midway in the 1990 season, eight teams haven’t even played in the World Series — Baltimore, Kansas City, Seattle, Texas, Washington/Montreal, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and the Los Angeles Dodgers.
Eight teams have never won a World Series in their existence — Seattle, Texas, Washington/Montreal, Houston, Milwaukee, Colorado, Tampa Bay and San Diego.
Three teams have never even played in a World Series — Washington/Montreal, Seattle and Texas.
Here’s something about Bobby Cox that I find amazing: In the Braves’ 14-season playoff run, 1991-2005, the Braves had nine different pitchers who had 15 or more saves in a season. They had six pitchers BESIDES the Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz trio who won 15 or more games in a season. They had 17 players who hit 20 or more homers, and 10 players who stole 20 or more bases and 13 players who hit .300 or better in a full season.
I think this only begins to tell you just how good a manager Bobby Cox has been. The Braves always SEEMED the same, but they never really were the same. They had seven different Opening Day catchers in the playoff run, nine different first basemen, seven different second basemen, four different shortstops, and so on. The Braves even had five different Opening Day third basemen, even with Chipper Jones (you will remember he moved to the outfield for a while).
Looking back it seems clear: The Braves’ apparent consistency was an optical illusion, a magic trick, pulled off by three great pitchers and a manager who, perhaps better than anyone in baseball history, understood the rhythms and quirks of a long baseball season
Old Braves' Fan - October 4, 2010
Thanks for posting that
It made me remember my favorite Braves stat. Starting with the ‘91 WS team, the Braves average age of it’s opening day roster actually dropped for 4 years in a row. That’s dropping a lot of veterans and bringing in a lot of rookies year after year.
bighop - October 4, 2010
can a mod green that, please? thanks.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - October 4, 2010
There is no denying that Bobby Cox is a great manager. However, even in my most optimistic view, I think it is a very fair assessment to question Bobby’s in-game strategy during the playoffs. Bobby has the right temperament and that loyalty to get the most out of most of his players…there is no debate about that. His going with his gut coaching, however, does get magnified in the playoffs.
Sure some bad luck was the reason of many of the Braves’s playoff demise. However, it is not that hard to find examples of places where Bobby erred by leaving someone in for too long or to not send the runner, etc. in the playoffs. I think it is fair to criticize Cox for some of that.
Bobby is not a great in-game strategist, imho.
LEastCoastBears - October 5, 2010
can't wait to watch this on my lunch break...
even without sound, I was grinning from ear to ear.
It would have been even more epic, had they only clinched with the packed house there.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - October 4, 2010
I can't get picture
Stupid phone… Stupid work for blocking you tube…
HansonManCrush - October 4, 2010 via mobile
here's a video of the players running out to celebrate (and spraying all us fans with beer)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwnPXTs5juY
lingsched - October 4, 2010
Gotta love it!
Sidebar:
1. It’s very odd how Diory was shaking his champagne.
2. Mike Dunn: only this being Cox’s last season could a relative rookie and newcomer to the team spray a whole bottle over Bobby, you think?
djvog - October 4, 2010
Sidebar#2
I saw absolutely no sign of KK in any video so far. Is he still with the team?
10-4 - October 4, 2010
I saw whom maybe were interpreters…he’s probably still hanging around in the bullpen waiting for Bobby to call on him.
djvog - October 4, 2010
All the people voting 5s and 6s in the FCP should watch these videos.
It’s so awesome to see Bobby grinning from ear to ear as the players carry him around on their shoulders. This team came through for Bobby in the end, and put that big ol’ grin on his face. How anyone could think this team is mediocre after seeing what they did for Bobby in his last season is just beyond me.
Jacob Peterson - October 4, 2010
70 years old...
and he’s having the time of his life! man I love baseball
Shoert - October 4, 2010
69
70 next May. I wouldn’t want to be called a 70 year old until it was time. Would you? lol
proeye - October 4, 2010
so many trolls around here, lately
they must be worried about something…
Bobby’s perma-smile is priceless. That’s enough to make me want to break down and cry.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - October 4, 2010
I’m ecstatic as the next guy about Bobby getting one last playoff run here. This is not to say I don’t have concerns about the matchup and the Braves ability to win on the road/in San Fran/against LHP. This is not to say that I’m claiming the Braves can’t win the NLDS. Far from it. I think the Giants are beatable, but the team has to play better defense and continue to get quality from our pitchers.
UMDBHIK - October 4, 2010
Jason got doused haha
Gonna be more drunk post shower haha
MikeTrain - October 4, 2010
I want to say congrats
to my offical NL team
bestbostonsports - October 4, 2010
haha nice
should you say playoff team in general? doubt you are rooting for the rays/yanks haha
MikeTrain - October 4, 2010
I think he, and all other Red Sox fans, are being to be HUGE temporary Rays fans if the experts are right and it’s a Rays/Yanks ALCS.
J-Freak - October 4, 2010
AND....
“four days in October” comes on ESPN tomorrow night. I can’t wait
Shoert - October 4, 2010
That was a LOT of fun to watch.
I’m so happy for this team and Bobby.
NCChopper - October 4, 2010
These guys are awesome. and probably a bit drunk, too.
MBL1 - October 4, 2010
I was in the crowd of around a thousand that stayed
That was definitely one of the most exciting moments I’ve ever had as a fan. Amazing.
E-Lizz - October 4, 2010
I envy you....
but glad that a few fans did get to enjoy that moment
Shoert - October 4, 2010
Moylan dumping a whole beer on the interviewer = epic. Man I love these guys. I’d have given anything to have been at the Ted yesterday.
J-Freak - October 4, 2010
Jason Heyward wears Brooks Conrad for a backpack.
Scott Coleman - October 4, 2010
I'm practically giddy after seeing all the video clips and photos of the celebration yesterday.
FYI – Updated the original FanPost to add a couple of Postseason graphics
In case anyone wants to make a Tshirt iron-on for the playoffs.
– - CLICK HERE – -
NCChopper - October 4, 2010
Maybe you should put “for all the memories” on the seat of your pants… LOL
proeye - October 4, 2010
OH NOZ ESPN HATES US!!!
What’s new?
SuperNewb - October 4, 2010
I will never listen to what the great ESPN talking heads have to say
Its better to be the team everyone counts out. What do you have to lose? I really feel that the Braves are going to be able to play looser than the Giants will be. Every time this year the odds and talking heads were against us, the Braves responded in resounding fashion. No reason to believe that they will do otherwise
BravesDawg16 - October 4, 2010
I mean I think the real question is...
What is this Gomez guy thinking? Who is that?
SuperNewb - October 4, 2010
I was actually surprised to see Gomez for the Braves.
Not because he was in disagreement with all the other pundits, but he seemed to be buried so far up Barry Bonds’ ass for years. Never would have expected him to lean toward anyone battling the Giants.
Old Braves' Fan - October 4, 2010
Maybe he still is
And resents the Giants for stripping his name and likeness from AT&T Park.
-InsertWittyNameHere- - October 4, 2010
If we take the Giants, THIS image needs to be a FanPost.
NCChopper - October 4, 2010
Can we find the
OH NOZ WE CAN’T BE THE CARDINALZ!!! Post too?
SuperNewb - October 4, 2010
Hey now..
At least no one said Giants in 3, right?
E-Lizz - October 4, 2010
Whats new
to heck with them lets give cox his second championship and listen to espn cry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
billy-bob - October 4, 2010
Let's Win It For Bobby!!!
……and pedro gomez
ConradsComrades - October 4, 2010
Disappointed in Howard.
Outside of Pedro, the rest of these guys can get bent.
I love Olney’s reasoning (that we have a relatively weak offense and they have excellent pitching…) Thanks, doofus. That’s an accurate scouting report for both teams, which suggests a five game series, to me.
Sam Jethroe - October 5, 2010
to be fair, the Giants do have homefield and the Braves have a pretty bad road record
if I’m being impartial, I would probably pick Giants in 5…nevertheless, I do believe these Braves will embrace the underdog role (actually, I think they will do better with little to no pressure rather than being the favorite)
LEastCoastBears - October 5, 2010
Did they pop champagne right after the game?
Or did they wait till the end of Pads/Giants game..
KINGSLYTUT - October 4, 2010
After Pads/Giants
Of course!
SuperNewb - October 4, 2010
GUYS, WE'RE IN THE PLAYOFFS!
I LOVE YOU! I LOVE YOU ALL! GROUP HUG!
MBL1 - October 4, 2010 via mobile
I prefer Hi-Fives
some people smell
a hooter's baby - October 4, 2010
ditto
yeeeeehaaaah now lets beat the giants and pay back the bums from philly for making us sweat all weekend!!!!!!!!
billy-bob - October 4, 2010
Great video.
I saw me in the second one! It was so great being there for that. Another thing the players were doing was using the Tomahawk t\Teams t-shirt guns to shoot t-shirts into the crowd. I’m pretty sure I saw at least one partially filled can of beer get launched by B-Mac. Also, as Tommy Hanson was about to go back into the clubhouse, he took off his beer-and champagne soaked Wildcard t-shirt and threw it up over the dugout, in my general direction. Again, I am old, and the young whippersnapper next to me got it. A good time was had by all!
sddbaker - October 4, 2010
I noticed that too. We have heard all year about the team chemistry. I think we got a taste of it yesterday. It was so much fun seeing the team just lose themselves in the moment. For me it was a great memory that I will always remember about this team. I too was glad I was there to see it.
JimH - October 4, 2010
I am very envious of you. I had tried to get tickets for yesterday a few weeks ago and deemed them too expensive, but this would have been absolutely priceless to witness. Glad you had a great time!
And the Tommy fangirl in me wants to hunt the person who caught his t-shirt. But I will restrain myself simply because I’m lazy.
Sarahbeth - October 4, 2010
Cox abysmal?
I didnt realize that he batted during the post season,maybe their recird would have beeb better if he had,I think hes a class act cause he always stood behind his players and if they didnt give 100% hed bench them I do agree that in my opinion he made or didnt make the correct move and more times than not stood behind a player too long but one must respect him for his ways.
billy-bob - October 4, 2010
Really Cool!
I was in Left Field during the game and was in the crowd last night when we clinched the Wild Card. I am looking forward to seeing more clips of this one Youtube. The crowds were unbelievable this weekend. I went Friday night as well. This has been a special year for attending games. I got to see Heyward’s first homer, Lowe strike out 12, last Monday’s 11 inning thriller and yesterday’s thriller. By the way, as for home runs, I am trying to decide which was a bigger bomb, the Heyward homer or Derek Lee’s shot from yesterday. As I said, I was in left field and that was a rocket. Anyway, it’s been a great season and I am looking forward to more magic this week.
JimH - October 4, 2010
whoever posted these videos, thank you for sharing. I love my braves!
sepulcher - October 4, 2010
lmao
I’ll bet Brooksie can polish off 6 beers in under a minute. Maybe 7.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - October 4, 2010
let's go Braves....3 more celebrations this year please
LEastCoastBears - October 5, 2010
NEW video over at the Braves official site.
Bobby, Chipper and BMac commenting.
– - CLICK HERE to VIEW – -
NCChopper - October 5, 2010
lol at Minor pouring beer on Chipper’s head.
MBL1 - October 5, 2010 via mobile
You must Login with your SB Nation account and be a member of Talking Chop to post a comment.