2010 was supposed to be a year of redemption for Kenshin Kawakami. After signing a three-year, $23 million dollar contract in 2009, expectations were skeptical, but optimistic for one of Japan’s most celebrated pitchers over the last decade. His debut season in the United States wasn’t as successful as he and Braves fans had all hoped it would be, with a widely underwhelming 7-13 record on top of a year that saw high pitch counts, nibbling of the corners, and an eventual demotion to the bullpen to end out the year. There were plenty of excuses thrown around to explain the struggles, from poor run support, league and cultural adaptation, the Japanese six-man rotation versus America’s five, all the way to the texture of the baseball itself, but the bottom line is that the Braves weren’t winning games when Kawakami was taking the hill.
With a year of American baseball under his belt, things were supposed to be different in ’10. It was time to get back to the baseball player that was the Rookie of the Year in 1998, NPB’s Central League MVP and Sawamura (Japan’s Cy Young) winner in 2004, and member of the NPB Japan Series champion Chunichi Dragons in 2007. Yes, 2010 was supposed to be a much different year than 2009 was; and actually, it was.
He was even worse.

In recent years, I don’t think there’s been a more frustrating pitcher to Braves Country as Kenshin Kawakami has been. Guys like Kyle Davies, Chuck James and Jorge Sosa of previous seasons had the luxury of being inexpensive options that could easily be demoted or benched without much repercussion. And in today’s fandom of sports, fans are smarter, more into the numbers, both statistically and financially, and most certainly more opinionated. And somewhere along the line, fans really began to care about the financial aspects of constructing a roster, despite it only being as much of their money as they invested into supporting their teams. And fans really hated when players signed to big-money simply did not deliver, with no excuses. Needless to say, many have already stuck the proverbial fork into KK, and don’t want to see him suiting up for the Braves in any capacity next year.
Kenshin Kawakami finished out 2010 with an embarrassing 1-10 record, and a bloated ERA of 5.15. He started 15 games before being supplanted by the return of Jair Jurrjens and the emergence of Kris Medlen. After a single appearance out of the bullpen, he was demoted to AAA-Gwinnett, where he started five games, before returning to the Major League roster in September, where he made one more start, and one more appearance out of the bullpen, ending out the year with 16 starts and only 87.1 innings pitched. His hair improvement in K/9 (6.08) was negated by his hair regression in BB/9 (3.30) en route to a slightly worse 1.49 WHIP. KK had a noticeable spike in the unlucky department, with a .320 BABIP, as indicative by ground balls going down (39.7 GB%) and line drives going up (22.3 LD%)
It doesn’t take a genius to see that Kenshin Kawakami had an even more disappointing season in 2010 than he did the year prior. Anyone simply watching the games at the park or on television could see that this was a guy that didn’t really have great stuff, wasn’t dominating the opposition, and was getting hit a little too hard, too often. And the numbers at the end of the season quantify most of it. I’m not going to try and convince people that KK’s better than his numbers say, or that he’d be a much more serviceable starter on any of the 29 other MLB teams. I am going to share a lot of facts and numbers, attempt to dispel/justify some popular beliefs, and let you guys come to your own conclusions, however.
Believe it or not, or maybe I’m just jaded, but there are some facets of KK’s game that I was surprised were as good, or comparable to his teammates, as they were. The facts and information were derived from a combination of FanGraphs, Baseball-Reference.com, as well as quite literally, combing through game logs of every one of Kenshin Kawakami’s starts, looking for discrepancies and anomalies.
| ERA | K/9 | BB/9 | HR/9 | xFIP | WHIP | BABIP | LD% | WAR | |
| Kawakami | 5.15* | 6.08 | 3.30* | 1.03* | 4.56* | 1.49* | .320* | 22.3* | 0.8* |
| Hudson | 2.83 | 5.47* | 2.91 | 0.79 | 3.80 | 1.15 | 286 | 13.6 | 2.7 |
| Hanson | 3.33 | 7.68 | 2.49 | 0.62 | 4.03 | 1.17 | 297 | 16.7 | 4.3 |
| Lowe | 4.00 | 6.32 | 2.83 | 0.84 | 3.65 | 1.37 | 312 | 18.6 | 2.0 |
As shown above in this graph of cherry-picked statistics, it’s clear that it was true that Kenshin Kawakami was the worst pitcher on the Braves staff in 2010. From ERA to walks per nine, to WAR, KK was ranked below the three other prominent starters, with the one exception of having a better K/9 rating than Tim Hudson which shouldn’t be surprise to anyone given Huddy’s GB rates. So after coming to the obvious conclusion that KK was poor, I decided to look at why he was so bad, and the results were a little perplexing.
Obviously, I’ve chosen to focus on the volume of pitches in relation to strikes and contact, and what we have is the following:
| Pit/PA | Str% | 1st% | L/Str% | S/Str% | F/Str% | Con% | L/So% | |
| Kawakami | 3.73 | 61% | 59% | 27% | 14% | 27% | 82% | 27% |
| Hudson | 3.62 | 62% | 54% | 28% | 13% | 25% | 82% | 20% |
| Hanson | 3.87 | 65% | 62% | 30% | 15% | 27% | 79% | 30% |
| Lowe | 3.83 | 61% | 54% | 29% | 15% | 24% | 79% | 24% |
Admittedly, I was surprised to see that on average, KK was only throwing 3.73 pitches per batter. And for a guy that it always felt like he was getting into deep counts with every single batter, or not throwing first pitch strikes, I figured that the other strike scenarios were probably way worse than his counterparts.
Surprisingly, KK’s peripherals in this case aren’t that far off from his fellow starters. In fact, he threw a higher percentage of 1st pitch strikes than Lowe and Hudson, and was practically as efficient at getting hitters to whiff as Hanson and Lowe. It was my assumption that batters were able to foul off a lot of pitches to drive up his pitch counts, but at 27%, he’s no worse off than Tommy Hanson. The only thing that stands out to me really is the 82% contact-ability of his pitches, and despite the fact that Tim Hudson also has 82% of his pitches touchable, that’s actually his objective.
So what makes KK so different than his counterparts? Given the first graph, it’s obvious that the .320 BABIP and 22.3% LD% rate really hurt him, but I also noticed this little discrepancy between KK and the others:
| XBH% | X/H% | |
| Kawakami | 11.5* | 46* |
| Hudson | 5.5 | 27 |
| Hanson | 6.0 | 28 |
| Lowe | 6.6 | 27 |
KK’s percentage of hits that are extra-base hits are almost double than Hanson, Hudson or Lowe’s, and an alarming 46% of balls put into play on KK result in extra bases (factoring in extra bases from errors). The league average is 33%, and although it’s nice to see the other three bettering that, KK is way off in the other direction.
So my hypothetical answer to the question of why Kenshin Kawakami isn’t as good as his teammates, the answers lie in the facts that he walks a noticeable amount more batters, and too many balls put in play, which land for hits, and way too often, for extra base hits. But otherwise, he’s as efficient at throwing strikes, striking out batters, and statistically throws a comparable amount of pitches at a contactable rate than the others.
KK averaged 5.1 IP per outing over his 16 starts. He didn’t go deep into games, consistently, yes.
Rule of thumb is that good pitchers should throw 12-15 pitches per inning, and typically be capable of getting to around 100 pitches. If that’s the case, then KK misses the mark in both cases, because he averaged 16.74 pitches per inning, and 88.86 pitches per start. That would equate to roughly 100 pitches per six innings, which doesn’t sound at all too bad, but the results haven’t been too kind to KK, and he’s typically being removed due to ineffectiveness or deficit requiring a pinch-hitter. I honestly felt that the averages there were a little on the low side, but he did have five games where he averaged 20+ pitchers per inning, and went 5.1 IP or fewer, which spiked that notion.
Oddly, seemingly contradictory to the graph above of pitches per batter, KK averaged 6.45 balls per inning, and 32.63 balls thrown per start. It doesn’t feel that correct, given that a 3.73 pitches per PA seems more than adequate, but those are the numbers. So given the average of pitches he throws a start, 37% of KK’s pitches per start are balls. I thought that would be high, but compared to the Big Three, it’s right on par; but keep in mind that the three of them average roughly 96 pitches per start.
Kenshin Kawakami averaged a meager 1.94 runs of support in innings pitched (not support/9). The bottom line is that no pitcher can expect to regularly win without borderline flawless stuff, with that little support. The Braves as a team, averaged 2.91 runs per innings 1-6 on the year as a whole, and it’s anyone’s guess to if KK’s record would have been better with an additional run of support each game. Possibly, and considering the Braves averaged 1.83 runs from the 7th on, they would have been efficient at plating some insurance RIBz in the process.
KK has blown seven leads. Three 1-run leads, two 2-run leads, and one aberrational 4-run lead.
Here’s an interesting fact: On average throughout his 16 starts, Kenshin Kawakami got better as the game progressed. Batters subsequently got worse the second and third times through the order against KK. But more importantly, a corresponding effectiveness was in pitches 1-75; KK was very hittable in his first 25 pitches, not so much in his next 25 pitches, even less hittable between pitches 50-74, but 75-100 is typically where the fatigue set in for KK, and he became mortal again. Times through the order didn’t support my theory that KK was often left in too long, but based on pitch counts, it does.
More food for thought: Considering the average KK outing was done by the 6th inning, I’m subjectively going to break down his outings as "early" – 1st and 2nd innings, "mid" – 3rd and 4th innings, and "late" – 5+.
Game lost early: 5
Game lost mid: 0
Game lost late: 5*
* pitch counts: 65, 102, 79, 79, 110
In all ten of KK’s losing decisions, the game-deciding run plated within the first two innings, or in a KK-late inning scenario. This supports that he obviously has issues in early innings from time to time, but certainly settles down quite nicely, until the pitch count rises, fatigue sets in, and then he’s left in, "too long," in terms of pitches, and not innings.
Sent to the bullpen on June 27th, a day after recording his first and only win of 2010. 19 days later, on July 16th, KK makes an appearance out of the bullpen, in a game against the Brewers while the Braves were down 6-3. He gave up three earned runs in an inning of work, throwing 22 pitches. 13 days later, KK is demoted to AAA-Gwinnett, where he makes his first start in 32 days, pitching 2.2 innings. He is given 4-runs of support, while only surrendering 1 earned run, but Gwinnett blows the lead, resulting in a no-decision. After a month of starting pitching on a regular schedule, KK is recalled on September 1 back to Atlanta. On September 3rd, KK is started in place of Derek Lowe who took the start off due to bone chips in elbow. Against the Marlins, he allows five hits, four walks, and five earned runs in three innings of work, throwing 73 pitches in the process. He doesn’t start another game. Six days later, against the Cardinals, KK makes an appearance out of the bullpen, down seven in a blowout. He allows another run to plate. KK is never seen again for the remainder of the year.
Come to your own conclusion on this one.
Don’t let David Ross catch Kenshin Kawakami. In the 23.1 innings where David Ross caught KK, batters were hitting .319/.391/.543, and plated 21 earned runs. KK’s ERA with Ross is an even more bloated 8.10 ERA. His BABIP jumped up even more, to .341. And to think Ross bragged about his brief experiences catching Japanese pitchers in Los Angeles and Boston being beneficial compared to McCann’s zero experience.
Kenshin Kawakami should do whatever it takes to avoid three ball counts. Once three balls were in the count, the at-bats were pretty much a forlorn conclusion. 3-0 counts led to 10 walks, or became 3-1 counts, which led to five walks, or batters mashing .600/1.533OPS. If he managed to get another strike over, 3-2 counts resulted in 17 walks, 10 strike outs, and hitters still clubbing at .314/1.243OPS. As a whole, getting KK into a three ball count yielded a .628 OBP for batters.
On the year as a whole, KK weaned off the 4-seam fastball, and threw a lot more cutters and splitters. One of the biggest problems with KK’s arsenal was that his curveballs weren’t reliably being thrown for strikes, and his cutters and splitters weren’t nearly as untouchable as he’d wanted them to be, as evidenced by the 82% contact percentage of his pitches. The bottom line is that it was fairly too easy for hitters to foul off or wait out KK’s pitches. Looking back through PitchFX graphs of KK’s starts, the most commonly seen outcomes were hanging splitters to RHBs, and LHBs seemingly waiting for the 4-seam fastball.
If the Braves can’t trade him, whether you like it or not, expect Kenshin Kawakami to remain a Brave throughout 2011. Now whether or not you should expect to see him actually play baseball is another thing, but typically, teams as financially conscious as the Braves generally don’t like guys earning $7.3M sitting on their butts doing nothing. Despite the fact that KK doing nothing, could still "be doing" the team a favor. I see two realistic outcomes for Kawakami the Brave in 2011: KK enters the season slotted in the bullpen, whether it’s as a long man or simply middle relief. Or he’ll be put into the AAA-Gwinnett rotation, to keep stretched out and actually working, in a lower pressure environment. But with the emergences of Mike Minor and Brandon Beachy, combined with the projected starters of Hudson, Hanson, Lowe and Jurrjens, there’s already a small logjam of starting pitching that’s not going to have any room for Kenshin Kawakami.
_________________________________________________________
Out of all the players I’ve been tasked to review, seriously, none of them have been as complex or enigmatic as Kenshin Kawkami has been. Where as all the other players have solitary Word files, KK's got an entire folder with several text documents of notes and observations. All for a guy who might not even be back, too!
0 recs | 127 comments
Hopefully the usage was just Bobby's doing
And Fredi will slot KK into the 5th spot in the rotation OR regular RP work, spot starter.
I’d rather pay 7 million and have KK pitch for us than pay 4 million to have him play in Japan.
kbertling353 - October 26, 2010
I agree with this. He’s not a horrific 5th starter, and he’s already on the books for 2011. Hope for a bounceback to his xFIP, which was a respectable 4.56.
You know, one thing that surprises me about KK, given how much guys were teeing off him in 2010 (as evidenced by royhobbs’s stat on XBH), is why his 2010 HR rates weren’t below-average (9.2% HR/FB).
Yakker - October 26, 2010
doesnt matter
we have 5 better guys, he shoudnt be in the rotation, bottom line
willlinn - October 26, 2010
in fact we prob have 6 better guys
and thats not counting teheran who could be on the team come summer, and medlen who will be with the team late in the season
willlinn - October 26, 2010
medlen's already been shut down until 2012
but you’re right, when you have 5-7 better guys you can put out there, you don’t play KK, no matter how much you are paying him. Just look at the Giants this postseason, they left their $126 million dollar man on the bench for BOTH series, going with a rookie in his place, and now they’re on their way to the World Series. Hanley Ramirez was benched by Fredi Gonzalez so I have faith that he will choose our rotation based on performance in spring training and not on paychecks.
CoxXx - October 26, 2010
it's not a given at all that beachy will be better than KK
like I said, spot starter and RP would be a great place for him
kbertling353 - October 26, 2010
Also
Not a given that will be healthy come April, given the velo drop in the second half this year.
Yakker - October 26, 2010
IF
he’s on the team, and IF he earns that job.
Mr. Sanchez - October 27, 2010
Seriously?
Medlen is going to miss all of next year? Ugh!
BravePhin - October 26, 2010
Link?
because I’m calling bs on Medlen.
Mr. Sanchez - October 27, 2010
I don't think it's a given.
But 12 months minimum from the time of the surgery until he can pitch, and I doubt he goes directly from the shelf to Turner Field. I think it’d be rather optimistic to believe he pitches in Atlanta in 2012.
Surgery was on Aug. 18, so he’d get a month in, best-case scenario.
cbwik posted it earlier, but full recovery isn’t expected for 18 months after the surgery, which puts him back at Spring Training 2012.
-C
cthabeerman - October 27, 2010
But has anyone reported one way or the other?
I haven’t seen much at all since the surgery, except he was in the dugout in September. Has anyone seen any timetable or report on how his rehab is going? Until then, I assume similar to Hudson that he can be back by September.
Mr. Sanchez - October 27, 2010
Hudson was ahead of schedule and didn’t have any setbacks. You can’t expect the same for everyone who undergoes TJ
Braves24 - October 27, 2010
Tim Hudson timeline...
Tim Hudson’s recovery was noticeably faster than normal, and he had his surgery two weeks earlier in the timetable than Medlen.
Even if he follows the Hudson timeline, he doesn’t throw a pitch at all
until mid-July (even one pitch), doesn’t get a rehab start until early August, and doesn’t make a major league start until halfway through September. That is best-case scenario.
It’s just not likely, considering the later timing. What are the Braves going to do, put him on the 25-man roster on Aug. 31st (still a couple weeks from being ready to pitch) in order to get him back for the last two weeks of the season and postseason?? Have him fill a 60-day DL slot when he’s literally days removed from being there himself??
In all likelihood, he is going to be able to pitch a bit in the offseason, with the push coming for Spring Training 2012.
-C
cthabeerman - October 27, 2010
That is also assuming he comes back...
attempting to start. He could easily go into the bullpen for his return next year, which would shorten the rehab timeline in that he wouldn’t need to stretch back out for 5-6+ inning outings.
But I get what you’re saying about Hudson starting earlier and having a recovery as good as possible. But then Medlen is younger, and science says that helps in the healing process. So perhaps he can recover as quick or quicker depending on his physical makeup and the extent of the damage or scar tissue.
Mr. Sanchez - October 27, 2010
Hudson still had time to get a nice full regime of rehab starts
By the time Medlen comes back, the Minor league season will be over. No way instructional league appearances are even close to the rehab necessary to be in MLB shape. Huddy was lost in an earlier month, to which 12 full months after that still afforded him time to rehab and make a September return.
Rush him too soon, and we have another Peter Moylan on our hands.
royhobbs - October 27, 2010
As much as Bobby loved using Venters
He clearly hated using Kawakami. I’m very much leaning to the notion that with Bobby out of the picture, Fredi will attempt to give KK a fair chance. Granted, if Bobby’s still going to be chirping in Fredi’s ear from time to time, that could very well not happen, too.
royhobbs - October 26, 2010
BTW
Anything to suggest that XBH% is something a pitcher can control?
Yakker - October 26, 2010
i have absolutely no evidence of this but it would seem like that is something a pitcher should be able to control
its a variable of how good he is at making hitters miss. now that doesnt mean miss completely, but miss squaring the ball up. the difference between a weak groundball and missing a pitch completely is like less than a half of an inch, probably. it would assume there is some ability in preventing a batter from squaring up the ball.
But as i said i have no statistical evidence to back that up, it just seems, like through analogy if swinging strike rate is a variable that is controllable by a pitcher, why wouldnt quality of conduct be a variable that is controllable as well. And if i am right, it seems with a worse ability to control the quality of contact, a pitcher would see his XBH% increase drastically. As you can see this is more of a argument by analogy than one based off statistical evidence, so its lacking considerably.
Swo12bv - October 26, 2010
Well
The problem is that analysis treads awfully close to a rebuttal of DIPS theory. It’s certainly possible that KK may have a problem avoiding “quality contact,” but like with below- or above-average BABIPs, I’d like to see a few years of trendlines before coming to that conclusion.
Yakker - October 26, 2010
that certainly was not intended to be interpretted as a conclusion…it was more of a premise than anything….
and i think you can differentiate the DIPS theory. first the primary contention is that a pitcher cannot control where a ball is hit. if a grounball is hit a pitcher like Hudson did his job…but sometimes that groundball, even a poorly hit one just happens to be int he right spot. the same is true for well hit contact….i think the difference comes in BABiP is drastically higher on LD then it is on GB or FB…across the league…and that is not challenged by DIPS…i would assume most XBH are a result of LD…and certainly everyone agrees batted ball profiles are well within a pitcher’s control….again this is more anecdotel or if you prefer, random blathering. so who knows…but the more i think about it the more i think a statistical analysis would support my premise. but w/o that analysis it is just that a premise and holds no weight whatsoever and I certainly wont believe it until it is proven true, even though its my theory.
Swo12bv - October 26, 2010
Yeah
Fair enough. So perhaps the increased LD% is driving the XBHs, like Roy mentioned below.
Yakker - October 26, 2010
Actually Swo12bv...
…I disagree that pitchers can control LD% against. BP did a thing about it last offseason and concluded that pitchers cannot—-they concluded that a pitcher can control whether the pitch is above or below the bat when good contact is not made, but cannot control whether a line drive is hit or not. They had plenty of evidence for their position, including the best anecdotal evidence I have ever heard: In 2009, AL Cy Young Award Winner Zack Grienke had a higher LD% against than Sidney Ponson.
That being said, I believe that the caveat was that the pitchers had to be major league caliber and that if you had a total meatball who was just throwing batting practice, the LD% against would be consistently elevated. That was difficult to show with evidence however, as those pitchers don’t last long enough to get a sufficient sample size.
cavebird - October 26, 2010
LD, GB, and FB% are not exact measures though...
there is no scientific definition of either, and their designation depends on view, personal interpretation, etc.
Mr. Sanchez - October 27, 2010
i trust BP more than my own ramblings…so if thats what they think its more than likely i am wrong…
and the reason Sideny Ponson has a low LD% is all his hits allowed are HR… :)
Swo12bv - October 27, 2010
Maybe
He needs to stop pitching inside to hitters so darn much, because 24 of his 98 hits allowed were XBH pulled to both RHB and LHBs, which is almost in line with his LD%
royhobbs - October 26, 2010
Yep, but that leaves him in a pickle. Can’t nibble because Bobby/Fredi will sit him in the doghouse, doesn’t get the outside corner with his CB, and so he has to come in with his mediocre FB in FB counts.
Yakker - October 26, 2010
But why was KK not used?...
it’s not like Bobby’s an idiot, although he has shown a strong tendency to playing favorites. So why would he not use a pitcher who was better than what else he called on, in a playoff push? He wasn’t trying to lose games here, so why no KK?
Mr. Sanchez - October 27, 2010
What you just said was basically: “I’d rather pay 7 million and have an ineffective pitcher than pay 4.4 million for a more effective substitute.”
swainzy - October 26, 2010
This guy had a 4.50 xFIP. I think that bears remembering.
Yakker - October 26, 2010
Okay…Mike Minor had a 3.86 xFIP, and Brandon Beachy had a 3.93 xFIP (although in a small sample size. Two much cheaper, much better options.
swainzy - October 26, 2010
Both of which are total unknowns at the MLB level.
justincredubil02 - October 26, 2010
Duly noted, although I was only attempting to point out the potential upside of those two compared to KK, who figures to be only an average starter at best.
swainzy - October 26, 2010
and KK has pretty much been a disaster at the MLB level
Every single pitcher is an “unknown” when he starts pitching, save Stephen Strasburg, sometimes you just have to take a chance and go with the rookie, it worked out well for Bumgartner and the Giants, who benched Zito and have won both of Bumgartner’s postseason starts.
CoxXx - October 26, 2010
KK has been a disaster?
How about that 4.3 career ERA?
kbertling353 - October 26, 2010
What's his W/L record?
BAM! You stat-geeks got no answers for that! Bottom Line: Winners Win, Losers Lose.
buzzdeadwax - October 26, 2010
I have an answer for that.
But it mostly involves insulting you for being dense, or wrongly insulting you for being sarcastic.
-C
cthabeerman - October 26, 2010
Sarcastic, I believe.
Doghnut - October 27, 2010
definately being sarcastic…
Swo12bv - October 27, 2010
I was thinking of a great response when I got halfway through your post, and then saw who posted it…darn you for getting me excited!
justincredubil02 - October 27, 2010
Sorry
I can’t help myself. But it’s good to know the fake posts still work, if only briefly.
buzzdeadwax - October 27, 2010
And that changes the fact...
that they were more productive how?
Mr. Sanchez - October 27, 2010
It doesn’t.
I’m not talking about their, what, 40 combined innings pitched?
I’m talking about 2011.
justincredubil02 - October 28, 2010
In terms of 2011...
all 3 of KK, BB, and MM would be filed under “unknown”. That goes for Hudson, Hanson and Lowe too considering there’s no crystal ball, although all 3 have a more stable track record to put expectations on.
And to answer your question, Minor had a shade over 40 innings on his own. Beachy added another 15+ in the regular season (which is still triple the innings of your boy after June 30, as Kenshin, for whatever unknown reason, had a mere 5 innings combined in July, August, September, October).
Mr. Sanchez - October 28, 2010
KK doesn't have to start in place of one of them
RP
kbertling353 - October 26, 2010
Then who does he supplant?...
Martinez, Moylan, Kimbrel, Marek, Venters, Dunn, EOF, among other options. We have some pretty damn good pitchers, and it’s not beyond statistical or any other measure to conclude he doesn’t profile as the best option for any spot on our staff.
Mr. Sanchez - October 27, 2010
LOL
With 40 and 15 MLB IPs under their respective belts, these xFIPs are hardly worth mentioning.
Yakker - October 26, 2010
I’d take paying 5mil for this guy + that Japanese OF rumored to be coming here.
I thought the players union banned Mr.Baseball trades though.
Broccoman - October 26, 2010
id take benching him
if we dont trade him he should be stretching out in the minors or traded for anything.. we dont need his depth in the minors, we will have either beachy or minor as the 6th man.. medlen and teheran later, and honestly some other guys we could go with if we had an injury..
he doesnt belong in the bullpen after what we just read about his first 25 pitches
willlinn - October 26, 2010
no
willlinn - October 26, 2010
great analysis
kbertling353 - October 26, 2010
KK
Good stuff. KK was basically the same pitcher in both 2009 and 2010, but with less luck last year.
In order to be even marginally effective in 2011, KK needs to re-establish his CB as a threat. It was a very good pitch for him his first year in the league (worth almost 2 runs per 100), but he threw it faster in 2010 and with less positive results. (I suspect it also had less break in 2010, but I’m too lazy to check.)
Yakker - October 26, 2010
From what I saw
His CB was getting relatively the same amount of break, but the problem was that he wasn’t throwing it into the strike zone. It had slightly more H-break and he mostly threw it to RHBs to the outside or inside far too often. Not enough of them were clipping the edges, and it’s really a pitch he can’t afford to show twice in the same AB, unless set up properly – which means slowing it down and lulling the hitters with 88-90 mph FBs to make them flinch.
royhobbs - October 26, 2010
Interesting
If the issue is pitch selection and/or command, it’s something that you’d expect could be ironed out, either through coaching or iteration.
Maybe KK is an example of a guy who needs to “pitch backwards” to make his mediocre FB more effective. Or, perhaps, break out his gyroball.
Yakker - October 26, 2010
funny how there has been no mention of the gyroball since DiceK’s first season…
Swo12bv - October 26, 2010
Funny how there has been little mention of DiceK himself since his first season.
royhobbs - October 26, 2010
LOL
Yakker - October 26, 2010
Is it not just their name...
for a screwball?
Mr. Sanchez - October 27, 2010
ya i have no clue….it was supposed to be a slider that went backwards…which is similar in description to a screw ball.
i dont think it ever really existed…i think DIceK was intentionally throwing bad sliders that hung and it was working, bc you don’t expect it.
Swo12bv - October 27, 2010
This might be the best player analysis from any website I’ve ever read.
bwellnjonesco - October 26, 2010
You've got a little brown smudge...
…just above your lip – closer to the tip of your nose. If grab a hanky, and wipe real good, it should do the trick.
buzzdeadwax - October 26, 2010
lmao
BravePhin - October 26, 2010
I don’t kiss any butt, just being honest…I just can’t get over how awesome TC is. This post is a perfect example.
bwellnjonesco - October 26, 2010
I read a lot of posts and I have an awesome memory. According to your posting history, there is no way that I believe this post or the original is 100% snark-free. And I mean that as a compliment.
buzzdeadwax - October 27, 2010
I guarantee that 100% of my posts contain snarkness, however, I would never kiss anybody’s butt, especially on an internet blog. I was just being honest, I was THAT impressed with Roy’s work.
bwellnjonesco - October 27, 2010
Well done sir.
10-4 - October 26, 2010
great analysis
you did a ton of work and it shows. good job. i still think he doesnt deserve to be in the rotation and would love to see him get traded. i dont really understand the love some people have for him. the walks + high percentage of extra base hits does not equate to an effective pitcher but thats just me.
jman07 - October 26, 2010
Exactly
Trade him or cut him because no one in the team believes in him
crsosa - October 26, 2010 via mobile
Oh my gosh
Paul the Octopus died! :(
MBL1 - October 26, 2010 via mobile
i know right…how the hell am i supposed to know who is gonna win things now.
Swo12bv - October 26, 2010
Does that mean we have to start playing the games again?
My day keeps getting worse
BravePhin - October 26, 2010
:’(
southman - October 26, 2010
The gambling community just poured out a 40.
king of games - October 26, 2010
the Braves should have released him when he went 0-5
we don’t have anymore patience for him now, if he doesn’t improve significantly next year he has to GO!
southman - October 26, 2010
wow
0-5 is a true indicator of how good a pitcher is
Erihury - October 26, 2010
If only the Royals cut Greinke...
or Mariner’s cut Felix, when their records suffer. Oh how sweet that’d be.
Mr. Sanchez - October 27, 2010
if we release him we still ahev t o pay him…releasing him is literally one of the dumbest things you could do.
Swo12bv - October 26, 2010
If he doesn't improve next year or if he does improve next year...
…he is going to go anyway. Even if we keep him, he is a free agent after 2011.
cavebird - October 26, 2010
good riddance
he just plain sucks
southman - October 26, 2010
what about 0-5 with a 3.5 ERA?
kbertling353 - October 26, 2010
I don't care about ERA
I go for wins, I can understand if the pitcher is coming off surgery cuz that will slow you down for a while
southman - October 27, 2010
Ok, how about 0-5 with a 0.5 ERA?
dunnytwogloves - October 27, 2010
Losers Lose, Winners Win
Apparently that’s a tough concept for the basement-dwelling virgins around here. Real mean conquer women and judge baseball players by wins.
buzzdeadwax - October 27, 2010
one of the better posts on the thread u really stepped it up from the earlier winners win post…
Swo12bv - October 27, 2010
Thank you, sir
It’s praise like this that keeps me going…
buzzdeadwax - October 27, 2010
I don’t care what the stats say. I know what my eyes tell me!
justincredubil02 - October 28, 2010
how are you gonna get that?
southman - October 27, 2010
ask
King Felix
Braves24 - October 27, 2010
never heard of him
southman - October 27, 2010
That is why you fail
buzzdeadwax - October 27, 2010
By walking 1 guy in the 9th inning, and having your RP come in and allow the runner on 1st to score by an error on your LF, and you lose the game 1 nothing. Repeat 5x, with an earned run scoring a couple of times.
justincredubil02 - October 28, 2010
The chances of your scenario ever occuring are equal to...
[insert never gonna happen scenario]
Mr. Sanchez - October 28, 2010
True – but that’s how it could happen. The man deserved an answer.
justincredubil02 - October 28, 2010
0.5 is just extreme
make it 1.00 or 1.25, something like that, and it’s not as unrealistic, and actually could fit a King Felix or Greinke when they’re hot (or even a Hanson, JJ or KK the way we’ve given at least one guy no run support for a long stretch the last couple years).
Mr. Sanchez - October 28, 2010
Happier Times
10-4 - October 26, 2010
LOL
Scott Coleman - October 26, 2010
Turns out it was a fake smile with pure hatred behind the mask. Who knew?
10-4 - October 27, 2010
Good lord Danny...
how the hell am I supposed to follow this up in a few days?
Hell of a job. Great read.
Scott Coleman - October 26, 2010
Don’t worry, we all have low expectations for you ;)
king of games - October 26, 2010
I ♥ Haters
Scott Coleman - October 26, 2010
Still say we should try KK/Nate for Fukudome
Helps both teams, bad contracts all around, salaries match pretty well.
king of games - October 26, 2010
i wouldn't mind fukudome
kbertling353 - October 26, 2010
cya KK
Pay some Japanese team to take him. Pitchers like him are dime a dozen and the Braves can easily find a replacement on the free agent market for what they save on his salary or just let one of the kids handle the 5th starter job until Medlen returns.
redwards95 - October 26, 2010
“Yes, 2010 was supposed to be a much different year than 2009 was; and actuality, it was.”
Actuality? Is that even a word?
MBL1 - October 26, 2010 via mobile
...20 seconds later
Yes, in actuality, “Actuality” is a real word. Don’t be a hater.
buzzdeadwax - October 26, 2010
haterz gonna hate
MBL1 - October 26, 2010 via mobile
I feel the conflict within you. Let go of your hate.
buzzdeadwax - October 27, 2010
It's a real word when it's used correctly
BravePhin - October 26, 2010
Oh snap
Good catch. Fixed. Criss-crossing thoughts while writing, evidently
royhobbs - October 26, 2010
KK
He’d make a decent long man out of the BP. Medlen was supposed to play that role, but as he’s gonna be out of a while, KK’s as good as anyone.
FineHamAbounds - October 26, 2010
Excellent and comprehensive analysis…you put a lot of work into that. Hey, maybe you should send that post to Roger so he can use it to transform KK like he did Lowe.
But then again, maybe that’s why he went into the doghouse all along. Perhaps Bobby was upset that he wouldn’t accept help. Just speculation, nothing more.
Siteburner - October 26, 2010
Great review.
Redemption? He was pretty damn good in 2009, better than Derek Lowe. Anyway, this is great stuff
Braves24 - October 26, 2010
KK
the kid is just bad…
Brandon Beachy and Mike Minor pitched great in games where i was like BOBBY NO! The series in question being the one where the Phillies sent their big three and all we had was one of our bigs and mike minor and beachy i believe…
We were in all those games..
We should just take it on the chin that KK is bad…lets just wait and see spring training and how he does…give him one month. if he sucks again..sit that 7 million dollar ass down…
AND WITH THE QUICKNESS!
lol
radamez85 - October 26, 2010
Sad day
I had so much hope for Kawakamii.
drumzalicious - October 27, 2010
Me too.
Doghnut - October 27, 2010
One thing you could always count on with KK. I’d be turning the channel to watch rain delay re-runs of the “Braves Top 25 Moments” on my DVR before the game was 1/2 over!
He made it feel like 1989 and 1990 again. Maybe the Braves could use him to pitch BP because that’s what it looked like when he pitched!
Mullett - October 27, 2010
So much intelligence all in one post.
justincredubil02 - October 28, 2010
We are all missing the boat here...
KK won’t be back because he doesn’t want to come back. He pitched poorly, got benched, and wants out. Bottom line, he doesn’t fit in with the guys, and success awaits him in Japan.
No chance he comes to camp with us.
Braves12 - October 27, 2010 via mobile
you have made 5 (at first i thought it was 4, then i realized you somehow know he won’t be in Orlando during March with us) claims there i think…and none are backed up by anythign resembling evidence…that might be a new record. How do you know he doesnt want to come back, how do you know he doesnt fit in with the guys, and how do you know success awaits him in Japan?
not to mention he really didnt pitch all that poorly…and there is a fair amount of evidence that has been printed around these parts regarding that…he certainly wasnt great or even good, he was about league avg, or slightly below, but that doesnt mean he pitched poorly.
Swo12bv - October 27, 2010
As I have said before…maybe I have an inside source within the infrastructure of the club. Go read my posts, when have I been wrong?
Braves12 - October 27, 2010 via mobile
you were wrong when you said we have a terrible list of OF prospects…
you were wrong when you said Melky never hustled…
you were wrong when you said Minor didnt have composure and doesnt compete, and you were wrong for giving him the nod just because he happens to use his left hand when he throws projectiles.
you were wrong when you said Heyward couldnt hi 300 in the Carolina league.
so I’ve now spent 5 minutes…and shown that you have often been wrong and thats just the last month. and i dont trust anonymous sources from anonymous posters, too much anonymity.
Swo12bv - October 27, 2010
1…OF… See what our focus is in the off season and draft.
2…Melky is gone…“Melky was not well accepted/respected for his level of hustle!” – inside source
3….Minor was shut down late as he got tired, physically and mentally. He has upside, even more b/c he throws with his left hand. If he threw eighty, he wouldn’t have been #9 pick in draft!
4. Heyward… That was in reference to his struggles down the stretch and in post season as he was forced to carry the load and was nit ready. My comment was, “At this point, Heyward would struggle to hit .300 in the Carolina League.” oh, the struggle of rookies…but Jay-hey is legit.
5. Watch what happens to KK!
Since you want to be a jerk, I will quit posting insight on this board. Obviously, I won’t give up my sourceS, but do know I have a good grasp of somethings.
Later, hater.
Braves12 - October 28, 2010 via mobile
Weren’t you the guy who was claiming all sorts of crap last offeason due to your “inside” source that never proved accurate?
justincredubil02 - October 28, 2010
Was he the...
“Mike Dunn will never see an Atlanta uniform because FW will make him rot!!!?!?!” guy??
Or was that someone else??
-C
cthabeerman - October 28, 2010
I think that was off a ...
fangraphs or mlbtr comment thread. Now that I think on it, I’m almost certain an mlbtr comment thread.
Mr. Sanchez - October 28, 2010
I do...
remember seeing it there as well, perhaps first. I dunno. A lot of folks cross-post.
-C
cthabeerman - October 28, 2010
No
Braves12 - October 28, 2010 via mobile
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