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This week at Talking Chop, Braves starting pitchers will come out of the shadows.
This week we dive into starting pitching, going from the outfield last week (the weakness of the Braves) to the strength of the team. There's a lot to be excited about with the Braves starting pitching -- both the veterans and the young up-and-coming starters.
Here is the schedule for this week:
Tuesday: Derek Lowe, Kenshin Kawakami
Wednesday: Tim Hudson, Tommy Hanson
Thursday: Jair Jurrjens, Kris Medlen
Friday: Mike Minor, Brandon Beachy
Saturday: Around the NL East - Focus On The Starting Pitching Of The NL East
Sunday: Weekly Wrap
Next week we'll take a look at the Braves starting pitching prospects from both the left and right side of the mound. Needless to say, starting pitching is the strength of the Braves minor league system too -- hence why we're dedicating an entire week to it.
0 recs | 50 comments
I say we take whatever we can get for KK and lick our wounds. While I don’t like to say we should trade Lowe, I think this is our best opportunity to do so. With his fantastic pitching for the last month and a half he may have increased his value. I woud only do this if it allowed us to get a legitimate power bat into the outfield. If it is another patch in the outfield then absolutely not.
rcates - October 25, 2010
If we trade both, that would leave us with Hanson, Hudson, and Jurrjens coming off an injury, plus Beachy and Minor. While that doesn’t seem too awful, I wouldn’t be completely confident in it. I would much rather keep Lowe and let Minor and Beachy duke it out in ST for the 5th spot.
heap16 - October 25, 2010
I would only trade Lowe....
…..if I was absolutely sure I could acquire a legit, productive outfield bat.
Hudson
Hanson
Jurrjens
Minor
Beachy
Not a bad rotation, and I hear there’s a possibility that Teheran could be called up at some point in 2011. I don’t see it happening though.
Undocorkscrew - October 25, 2010
I think there’s a pretty good chance Teheran pitches in Atlanta at some point in 2011. He’s gonna start the year back in AA, and if he just keeps pitching like he has been he’ll be proving he deserves a shot in the Majors next season.
cbwilk - October 25, 2010
I think there is a good chance he will pitch in Atlanta next year, but I can’t understand why when our rotation will probably be full and if he does pitch for us, he probably will be like minor this year. Pitch great in his first couple of starts and then will be tired because of all the innings. I don’t think there is a reason to put Teheran in that situation and increase his injury risk.
Braves24 - October 25, 2010 via mobile
We should have Meds back midseason as well. If he pitches well we can probably leave Teheran down for the year.
Darin H - October 25, 2010
Late season at best...
Hudson came back much faster than most pitchers. It wouldn’t be folly to assume Medlen doesn’t pitch in the major leagues next season.
-C
cthabeerman - October 25, 2010
I would not be at all surprised
if we saw Meds in September next year.
UMDBHIK - October 25, 2010
I'm with this...
I thought the standard fare for TJ these days is 12 months provided no set backs. If that’s the rate for more than just Hudson (and without checking I think that’s right), then Medlen can be back in August or September. He may not be a starter when he gets back, but I think it’s reasonable to assume he’ll pitch down the stretch for us next season.
Mr. Sanchez - October 25, 2010
Going on 25, if there are no hiccups, he should be able to progress in time to see some action. Or perhaps that’s wishful thinking on my part.
UMDBHIK - October 25, 2010
12 months to pitch again, 18 months to actually be back and healed. So yeah, he might be back midway through the year, but who knows if he’ll be effective.
cbwilk - October 25, 2010
If he's ineffective...
but healthy enough to pitch, I’d assume they’d have him in AAA to knock rust off, and then bring him up once their season is over and use him in the least like they just used Proctor.
Mr. Sanchez - October 26, 2010
Teheran is already going to be in a position to better deal with throwing more innings than Minor was. Minor was throwing a ton of innings this year after basically talking the summer off in 2009. Teheran doubled his innings from 2009 this year, so next year it won’t be a big thing for him to pitch a few more for Atlanta. The two aren’t really comparable at all.
cbwilk - October 25, 2010
Are you sure of heading back to AA?...
I could see them going ahead and sticking him in AAA after his results in Pearl last year, and their past handling of Hanson, Freeman, Heyward, etc.
Mr. Sanchez - October 25, 2010
He might. I’m not sure of it at all, it’s just a guess.
cbwilk - October 25, 2010
Thanks...
thought maybe you had pulled out the Rolodex and seen your boy Almarez at some backwater indy league game in the Virginia countryside.
And on the innings thing, JT threw just over 140 this year. Hanson had 127 + 66 in MLB and AAA last year. Something like that wouldn’t be a huge increase in innings from last year for Teheran, although with our depth starting I wouldn’t expect him to get that much (unless he looked as strong and healthy as TH did for Gwinnett and Atlanta in 09).
Mr. Sanchez - October 26, 2010
With Lowe's salary the next two years...
if we can find a taker without having to send cash too, I’d be for keeping Kawakami and shipping out Lowe. KK has only one year left, and has shown he can fill in the back end of the rotation. Plus if he struggles, there’s Minor and Beachy ready to roll, and Teheran near ready among others (Medlen if they can hold until August, Delgado may be ready next year, then Diamond, Redmond, Ortegano, etc).
Mr. Sanchez - October 25, 2010
Agreed.
We need to try to trade either one of them to free up cash.
kbertling353 - October 25, 2010
also to include Medlin near or after midseason
bravestatoo - October 25, 2010
you keep lowe.
hes onto something
MacsGlasses - October 25, 2010
Don't look Now !!
Jeff Franceour is in the WORLD SERIES. And we’re NOT !!……..OUCH !!
ggotch - October 25, 2010
Lowe....
…..needs to keep his bone chips.
Did anyone notice that he was working faster on the mound the last month or so? Guy looked like he knew exactly what he was doing for the first time since his Dodgers days.
I’m really starting to worry about the CF position for 2011. MLB Trade Rumors just went over the trade, non-tender, and FA candidates for the position and it’s more depleted than I actually thought. The Royals are likely to keep Crisp, as he’s relatively cheap and productive. Other candidates include:
Rajai Davis
Tony Gwynn Jr
Rick Ankiel
Reggie Willits
Scott Hairston
Corey Patterson
I say just sign or trade for a quality left fielder and let Mclouth and Young duke it out for the CF position.
Undocorkscrew - October 25, 2010
absolutely not
id move heyward to center and get a new right fielder before that..
besides, there are more guys than the ones you listed that could potentially be traded for
willlinn - October 25, 2010
I didn't list the trade candidates....
…just the non-tenders. Also, Crisp plays for the A’s, not Royals. My bad…
I don’t want Heyward in CF, and I don’t think it’s a realistic possibility anyway.
The only CF’s that seem to be trade candidates that can make an impact are Kemp(who was arguably the worst full-time center fielder in baseball last year), Rasmus(honestly don’t think he’s available), Upton(Rays are losing Crawford, so it makes little sense for them to move Upton), and Ellsbury(I’d like to see him healthy first, as would the Sox……so the only time I see him being moved is at the break, if at all).
There just isn’t much for CF out there. If the Braves can sign or trade for one of these guys…..
Luke Scott
Josh Willingham
Jayson Werth
…….I say just attempt to fill the CF spot internally. I’d like to see Matt Young get a shot at it, although it’s unlikely.
Undocorkscrew - October 25, 2010
If we were to get any of those guys, especially Werth, I would say to get the best speedster/defense first CFer available and plug him in between Werth/Scott/Willingham and Heyward.
heap16 - October 25, 2010
Yeah, I'd love to see more speed....
….which is why I think Young should get a shot. He gets on base at a good slip, has good speed, and I hear he’s an excellent defender in CF. Kind of odd how he hasn’t been given a shot yet, considering how pathetic the outfield has been the last few years.
But yeah, if they can get one of those guys(or anyone similar for LF), I wouldn’t be opposed to them acquiring a speedy, good defender in CF. However, the last thing I want to see is for them to sign a guy like that for CF and then say, Pat Burrell for LF.
Undocorkscrew - October 25, 2010
If we get Werth, just put him in center.
J-Freak - October 25, 2010
Werth
Boras wants $120M/7 for Werth. No way the Braves can afford even half that. Need to move on.
Yakker - October 25, 2010
What BoreAss wants is bot always what BoreAss gets. Usually perhaps, but not always.
J-Freak - October 25, 2010
Yeah, that always cracks me up.
The market will determine what he makes, not Boras. It’s not like Werth is going to sit out the year if he doesn’t get what Boras wants. In fact, I’m sure he ’wants" $120M/1.
Tarkus - October 25, 2010
Honestly, 120/7 is a pipe dream, given his age. I think we’re going to see a situation with him very similar to Lowe: a lot of 15-16M per offers for 4 years, and the winner will be someone willing to guarantee a fifth year. Seven years is a bit much for a guy on the wrong side of thirty, though, and in the post-steroids pro-sabermetrics era, pretty well every GM knows it, too.
J-Freak - October 25, 2010
Agreed.
Seems like contracts have gotten shorter in recent years anyway. Too many teams have been burned by long contracts.
Tarkus - October 25, 2010
Sure
But even $65M/5 is too much. There’s no way Wren can fit that into the budget, unless a) the budget doubles or b) we decide to play without a starting CF and 2/3 of our bullpen.
Yakker - October 25, 2010
It’s not as far out of reach as people think. I did the math more in-depth elsewhere, but basically the 10M we just lost out of the bullpen plus the removal of KK’s contract if we can move him would be enough to be very competitive in the Werth bidding. If we get him, he slots into CF, LF is a Nate/Diaz platoon, and the loss of Melky’s and Troy’s combined contracts ought to basically cover the necessary arb raises. The one thing we couldn’t add in that scenario is a bullpen piece, but I could live with that considering the guys we have on hand for that role, especially if it means Werth is in the lineup.
J-Freak - October 25, 2010
$$
I didn’t see your analysis elsewhere, but Cot’s has us at $62M without picking up the Infante and Seabass options, and without Diaz or any of the arb awards. So figure $72M with those guys. If we come in at $84M again in April 2011, that means we have around $12M to spend, and we need to buy a whole lot more than Jason Werth for that money.
If we’re magically able to move KK without eating any of his salary, then yes, we could make a play for Werth. But that’s not going to happen, and I’d still advise against it, because of the length of the contract needed to sign Werth.
Yakker - October 26, 2010
If a) the budget doubles...
that opens up another $80m. I’d assume we could fit that and a lot more with an extra $75-100m to spend.
Mr. Sanchez - October 26, 2010
lowe is onto something...
and he is an innings eater on a young staff that will really need it, with a bullpen that will reappy appreciate it..
willlinn - October 25, 2010
Should be a fun week, but I can’t wait for Wednesday to read about Hudson and Hanson. Sweet!
Sparhawk - October 25, 2010
That is a really cool picture.
Also, isn’t it great that Bengie Molina will get a ring no matter what?
MBL1 - October 25, 2010
Chris Ray too, but nobody seems to care cause he’s not actually playing. Still, it is neat.
cbwilk - October 25, 2010
If they can dump KK and only eat $3M on his contract as proposed, and trade Lowe for a big RH bat in the OF (Maybe work something out with the Dodgers for Kemp)
…then the Braves would have enough money left in the budget to sign a decent #4 SP (J. Vasquez?) and have Minor/Beachy compete for spot #5.
Siteburner - October 25, 2010
What?
Even if we deal KK, we still have 6 starting pitchers.
Hudson
Hanson
Lowe
Jurrjens
Minor
Beachy
and it’s been said that Teheran could come up as early as mid-2011 if we needed him too. There’s absolutely no reason to bring in a #4. Focus on a big bat…or two.
Scott Coleman - October 25, 2010
I’m not sold on Beachy as a SP. His fastball isn’t great and is pretty straight. I have to think hitters will figure him out. Hope I’m wrong, cause I like the kid. He would be great in long relief/spot starting.
I’d love to deal Lowe and bring back Vasquez. You’d have to think that Vaz would be discounted on the fact that he sucked last year.
But who would take Lowe? I’m not sure there is a taker unless you include some prospects.
Should be an interesting off-season at least.
Sparhawk - October 25, 2010
Great thing if Beachy fails in mvhs' scenario...
he may be doing it in AAA or relief with the other 5 mentioned. And then there’s Teheran, among others, who could also start if he isn’t up to the task.
Mr. Sanchez - October 25, 2010
Right. Unless we deal one of our top-3, there’s no reason to sign a veteran starting pitcher. And as you mentioned, even a guy like Todd Redmond or Cristhian Martinez could make a start or two.
Scott Coleman - October 25, 2010 via mobile
When/if JT does make it next year, it would most likely be out of the ’pen unless our starting staff is ravaged by injury.
king of games - October 25, 2010
except
I don’t think we need Teheran mid-2011. Like you said, if we deal KK/Lowe, we are still left with six starting pitchers. Therefore, the only way we would need Teheran is if two of the pitchers went down. I would start him in AA and then promote him to AAA around June. Then, have him finish the season there unless something catastrophic happened to the Braves rotation which I hope doesn’t happen.
Braves24 - October 25, 2010 via mobile
1) Hudson
2) Hanson
3) Jurrjens
4) Vazquez
5) Minor
Wouldn’t count on Beachy in rotation. We might be able to get Vazquez cheap and we’d have the money by dumping some of KK’s money. This is all of course assuming Lowe is traded along with prospects for Kemp. In that case I would want to sign a true 3/4 because I don’t think we can count on Beachy in the rotation for a full year.
Siteburner - October 25, 2010
2 questions:
1. Where are the Dodgers coming up with this money? They’re practically bankrupt.
2. Why would they want Lowe back after letting him go two years ago?
Scott Coleman - October 25, 2010 via mobile
I may go out on a limb....but
(The new and improved) Lowe to the Dodgers might work…Ned Colletti the GM threw Kemp under the bus near the end of the season (which I think sent him into a 5 HR tare to end the season) So, any deal that would involve pitching (which they really need) might swing a deal. Of course they too are looking for a big bat after the Manny thing did not work out which might deter letting him go w/o a multi-team player deal….
Anyway, That deal probably would not happen untill December (if it happens at all) due to the divorce court ruling for the Owner.
bravestatoo - October 25, 2010
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