From Jon Heyman's column on SI.com today comes this tidbit:
The Braves have asked about Yankees shortstop prospect Eduardo Nunez. But New York may see him as an heir apparent to Derek Jeter (in a year or two, anyway), so its decision not to include him in a potential Cliff Lee trade is a bit more understandable.
Heyman's description of Nunez as a prospect and an heir apparent to Jeter is a bit of a stretch. Nunez is good defensively, but probably won't hit enough in the Majors to be anything more than a utility player. This could be a sign that the Braves are trying to acquire a more capable backup defensive infielder for next year's team. This is something I listed last week as one of the more important needs for the Braves this off-season.
Nunez has good speed and has shown good defensive ability at all the infield positions. With an aging Jeter, it seems like it would be hard to pry him away from the Yankees, and he's not someone who the Braves should overpay for.
0 recs | 94 comments
Interesting article...
is interesting.
kp.atl - October 22, 2010
We already have like 12 SSs in our system.
Is Nunez really closer to the majors than all of them?
king of games - October 22, 2010
Nunez has played in MLB
so, yeah, he’s closer than anyone we’ve got outside of Hicks… Nunez definitely has more bat than Hicks.
theatlfan - October 22, 2010
Interested in Nunez
Not sure if he’ll just be a Utility guy or if he has a chance to more. He’s got speed and hit .300 until a late season swoon (I have no data to know if that was due to injury, fatigue, or simply inconsistent PT though).
Any word on his D?
theatlfan - October 22, 2010
You know who I want?
There’s this shortstop… I think he plays for some team up north.
frozendesert - October 22, 2010
The one in Canadia?
Yeah, I hear that guy is a talented stud. His team would have to be CRAZY to trade him though…
J-Freak - October 22, 2010
What?
Canada’s got a team? I don’t know if we can take his Canadian attitude around here, though. I’ve heard that those guys aren’t very friendly, not very nice, and cannot speak English (I think that they can speak French fluently).
frozendesert - October 22, 2010
No, according to the post...
…Canadia has a team, not Canada.
cavebird - October 22, 2010
FWIW
Vast majority of French-speaking Canadians live in Quebec, not Ontario.
UMDBHIK - October 22, 2010
I apologize for not only my mistake, but my continued indifference.
No, seriously, I didn’t know that.
frozendesert - October 22, 2010
You mean the guy...
that posted an 80 OPS+ for the season, 11th worst in the league, and a -4.1 UZR/150 (or a 1 DRS, if you prefer that defensive metric) while playing for Canada??
Must be pretty solid…
-C
cthabeerman - October 22, 2010
Your logic has no place here…
cbwilk - October 22, 2010
Of course, this is also the same guy who posted far superior numbers in the 3 years prior to this one. But hey, 1 year totally outweighs any past production!
justincredubil02 - October 22, 2010
This.
J-Freak - October 22, 2010
Of course he does...
I’m not going to dispute that. I’ve never disputed that.
However, you have to start wondering whether or not he can rebound from this season. Perhaps that “headcase” label everyone has affixed to him has actually begun affecting his play.
One would think a change of scenery would help him. It did initially, but his production was still a good deal worse than it was earlier in his career, in a much friendlier stadium. His defense got worse, which hasn’t happened before (and, to be fair, I think he’ll have no issues with it coming back…should be an elite fielder for several more years).
It’s all very curious, but his lack of power is pretty disturbing. It’s not a ballpark-weighted stat, so playing in Toronto should have provided a nice boost. He’s not at Elvis Andrus’s level of power-futility, but he is 7th-worst among all qualified MLB players in that regard. One would think he could out-slug Erick Aybar by a significant margin.
-C
cthabeerman - October 22, 2010
Uhhh...
Yunel Escobar has not only shown that he is better than Alex Gonzalez, JJ Hardy, and Nunez in the past; but is bound to be better in the future than Alex Gonzalez, JJ Hardy, and Eduardo Nunez.
Can we all agree with that statement?
frozendesert - October 22, 2010
No.
Let’s see how he does next year.
Even with his improved numbers in Toronto, he was considerably worse at the plate than Gonzalez, if you look at the numbers as a whole.
I have no trouble believing he’ll bounce back, but it is far from certain. It would be foolish to assume that he’ll be better.
And, to be fair, we really don’t have much clue how good Eduardo Nunez will be.
-C
cthabeerman - October 22, 2010
So if I asked you to take one of the four, under their current contracts, for next year, who would you take?
frozendesert - October 22, 2010
Next year??
Gonzalez. He’s probably the third cheapest, unless Escobar has a poor arbitration result. Even with a poor result, Escobar’s salary will be comparable.
Of the gloves, you have to figure Escobar will be best, followed by Gonzalez.
Gonzalez had a horrendous Sept/Oct, which ripped his offensive production stats down by the short and curlies. Do I think that was a result of him being an inferior ballplayer?? No.
If you watched the games, and I assumed most of us did, he was clearly pressing, trying too hard, and that had a significant negative effect upon his play.
Next year, no Bobby Cox drama, no trade to deal with, I think he rebounds pretty well. He fits in, he’s there from the beginning, and his only job is to play baseball, not send the best manager of a generation riding into the sunset with a World Series ring. I don’t think he’ll post Toronto numbers, but I think he returns to Toronto form, with a little more willingness to take a walk here and there.
Yunel, on the other hand, I have no clue what to think. If his offense is so superior to Gonzalez’s, he should have thrived in Toronto. He didn’t. He started off with a bang, but failed to match his previous totals in a much better offensive situation.
The Toronto lineup had more power than the Braves, had fewer holes, was just better all-around, aside from the Braves’ incredible OBP. And he continued to struggle, although not as greatly.
I genuinely hope he rebounds, as he was one of my favorite Braves (and, if you search back, I supported him long after everyone else was calling for his head prior to the trade).
Nunez could become a better player than either Gonzalez or Escobar, but I don’t think it happens next year. I think even if we do trade for him, he won’t start until the 2012 season. Some might think that’s a waste, but he provides adequate cover in the event of injuries and he’s still got four more cost-controlled years after 2011. And maybe we can actually rest Gonzalez. He took all of two games off after the trade, playing in the unbearable heat of Atlanta.
I just plain don’t want Hardy. He’s not a bad player, but he’s going to be prohibitively expensive ($5M+), and there’s no sign that he’s going to have his power return to his previous heights. That money can be spent better elsewhere.
You’re paying for those two big HR seasons in the form of arbitration, but you don’t get credit for them come Elias rankings time because Elias only accounts for the past two years. So you’re essentially paying for the ability to get picks back due to his play, but you aren’t going to get those picks.
I don’t get to watch him play much, but it seems like he has a sound glove, according to the metrics. I don’t think his power translates a whole lot better in Turner than it did at Target, and you’re paying a large sum up-front for just one year, so I don’t think it’s worth it.
So there you have it. My choice, and my reasons in regard to each player.
-C
cthabeerman - October 22, 2010
Gonzalez “horrible” Sep/Oct is not the exception in his case. His April – July is.
He has had a horrible career at the plate. Don’t let 3-4 months of over-his-head production fool you. He is, always has been and always will be a terrible hitter.
justincredubil02 - October 22, 2010
Sure it is.
With a career line of .248/.294/.402, a line of .209/.237/.327 in a month is an exception.
I don’t see any reason why an OPS of .725 would be out of line. It’s a modest .030 increase over his career totals. Barring a trade or injury, it will be the first time he’s been able to settle in for an entire year since 2007, which was a great season for him.
That projection doesn’t favorably compare with Yunel’s career OPS, but it comes without any of the headaches associated with the player, especially if Yunel’s performance this season is more than a simple slump.
The SS position is one that you can afford to play safe at, as most teams do.
-C
cthabeerman - October 22, 2010
If
You look at Yunel’s and Sea Bass’ numbers since the trade, i’d say Yunel had a better slash line
HansonManCrush - October 23, 2010 via mobile
Yunel – .275/.340/.356 (.696 ops), with 7 2B and 4 HR in 60 games.
Gonzalez – .240/.291/.386 (.676 ops), with 17 2B, 2 3B, and 6 HR in 72 games.
Much more power, worse avg, much worse obp, but a lot more durable.
Mr. Sanchez - October 23, 2010
durable?
kbertling353 - October 25, 2010
Yes durable...
Escobar is constantly banged up and missing games, having missed over 20 every season.
Mr. Sanchez - October 25, 2010
And other than OBP...
he wasn’t much better than Gonzalez at the plate after the trade, 17 2B to 7, 2 to 0 on 3B, 6 to 2 on HR.
Mr. Sanchez - October 23, 2010
Other than the most important stat when it comes to hitting
oh ok
alxn - October 23, 2010
Thing is....
we had OBP above him, we needed power to drive in runs. So for what we would ideally ask of him (meaning without injuries to Chipper and Prado above him, and career norm production from one of our two left handed CFs), the SLG would help more.
Mr. Sanchez - October 23, 2010
god
you’re completely wrong about everything, aren’t you?
kbertling353 - October 25, 2010
No...
past production does not equal future performance. He’s more likely to be better than those 3, but it’s by no means an absolute fact.
Mr. Sanchez - October 23, 2010
so if yunel has a 90% chance of being better than AGon?
who would you rather have
kbertling353 - October 25, 2010
Nice made up %...
gotta crystal ball? If not, then it’s a crap shoot. Yunel may bounce back, or he may Melky his way out of the league.
Mr. Sanchez - October 25, 2010
For the first time in my life
This.
frozendesert - October 22, 2010
Yeah
But Escobar posted a 91 OPS+ for Canada. And for the year overall, he had a UZR/150 of +4.2.
(I’m not sure where you find the team by team splits).
frozendesert - October 22, 2010
Why?
If the Braves want more offensive production, why would yal want to get rid of Gonzalez? There are no better options out there other than MAYBE Hardy, but he will stay with the Twins
cjones2010 - October 22, 2010
Because he BLOWS. Almost any shortstop you care to name other than obvious busts, like Izturis or Theriot, get on base at a better clip than Gonzo, including the dearly departed.
J-Freak - October 22, 2010
One toke over the line...
Izturis does NOT get on base better than Gonzalez. And he has absolutely no power whatsoever, while Gonzalez had the 4th-best SLUG% in the league for shortstops (and before anyone mentions the weighting of Toronto in his case but fails to account for it in Yunel’s, Alex’s SLUG% with the Braves was good for about 10th in the league for SS).
-C
cthabeerman - October 22, 2010
When you’re making the case for death by shovel to the head or death by hammer to the head, I’m sure one option is going to hurt much less. But frankly, both would blow.
frozendesert - October 22, 2010
Read it again
I said anyone OTHER THAN obvious busts like Izturis. Not everyone to a man is an improvement, but 90% of the guys out there would be.
J-Freak - October 22, 2010
There are many better offensive productions than a .295 OBP
justincredubil02 - October 22, 2010
Yes
For example, Jeff Francoeur.
I can’t believe that I just said that.
frozendesert - October 22, 2010
Can he play shortstop?
I know he has the arm. The question mark would be his range.
/sarcasm
J-Freak - October 22, 2010
Wait, since when was Texas up North?
Yakker - October 25, 2010
Hopefully,s means we are trying to get rid of Alex Gonzalez.
justincredubil02 - October 22, 2010
EDIT: Hopefully, this
justincredubil02 - October 22, 2010
I hope so
I really dont think Alex Gonzo is as "solid’ defensively as advertised and he makes me cringe when at the plate… Really didnt like the Yunel trade, was hoping someone in the clubhouse would have put him in his place.
dean0uga - October 22, 2010
In retrospect, we should have traded for Bautista. Would’ve solved our outfield problem this year, and could have for the next few years.
frozendesert - October 22, 2010
I’ve seen quite a few fielding metrics which say that Escobar may be the best defensive shortstop in baseball. I understand why he had to go, but stuff like that just makes it sting even more. I get the impression that many Braves players tried to straighten him out but it was like talking to a wall.
Zontar - October 22, 2010
But does he have soft hands?
Scott Coleman - October 22, 2010
Nope, he twitches.
vooodooo - October 22, 2010
Which is an attribute
more influential in rosterbation than………
UMDBHIK - October 22, 2010
Jon Heyman = Ignore
WyrickKB - October 22, 2010
I have interest in Marrissa Miller. Doesn’t mean that its going to ever happen, nor that it should happen.
frozendesert - October 22, 2010
+1
justincredubil02 - October 22, 2010
I have interest in her, and it should happen.
At least from my perspective.
Tarkus - October 22, 2010
lol
+1
but she’s no Brooklyn Decker…
Scott Coleman - October 22, 2010
Precisely...
she doesn’t have ARod taint on her.
Mr. Sanchez - October 23, 2010
or ARod on her ta…oh, nevermind.
justincredubil02 - October 24, 2010
What would it take to get him?
PhuckthePhillies - October 22, 2010
At the Atlanta Braves’ current trading rate for AL East shortstops with well-below average on-base skills and no power whatsoever to speak of and the Yankees’ habitual consistency of being dicks in the sporting business, I would say… Brian McCann and Julio Teheran out to get it done.
No, but in all seriousness, including McCann ALONG with Teheran in that deal would be ludicrous.
frozendesert - October 22, 2010
sporting dicks
scorby911 - October 22, 2010
Wait a second, is Nunez a Boras client?
Perrinbar - October 22, 2010
Unless the trade is McLouth for Nunez, I think I’d rather keep Unicorn. If we’re looking to go cheaper at SS, then we already have Hicks and Diory, who are both likely to be just as good as Nunez and don’t require giving up anyone in a trade.
Lennox - October 22, 2010
I don't get it
Seriously, where did everyone come up with the idea that Hicks and Diory are “likely” to be even acceptably crappy major leaguers.
Hicks in particular. Dude has OPSed .695 in 2 seasons at AA, and .613 last year in AAA. What makes anyone think he’d hit higher than .220 next year in the freakin Major Leagues. I’m not saying he’s done, he’s still only heading into his age 25 year, but seriously, you cannot expect him to provide even a major league backup in the next year, and another year or 2 of sub-700 OPS in AAA, it will be time to forget about him altogether.
As for Diory, first off, he’ll turn 27 the day of the Braves home opener next year. He may be good enough to be a major league backup, MAYBE. He has been solid hitting in AAA lately, but nothing special, almost no power and not great OBP. The other thing is, I think people just assume because he’s a low power SS from the DR he’s got to be some glove wizard, but from what I’ve heard, he’s really not a very good fielder.
Consider this Omar Infante is only 2.5 years older than Diory. Infante has gone .274/.319/.714 in 9 seasons in the majors. Diory has gone .279/.333./.386 in 8 seasons in the minors. He’s basically a minor league version of Infante. Very dependent on average at the plate with not much walking or power, and an OK but not especially good defender at several positions.
People have got to let go of this idea that, if a guy was at one time a prospect, he’s still got some potential to just all the sudden turn into a Major League starter. His potential clock is running down and while he may provide some value, he’s not likely to ever be even a serviceable starter.
For reference, Nunez (who I don’t believe we are getting) is 2 years younger than Hicks, 3 younger than Diory, has put up numbers similar to Diory, has actually had some success in a small sample size in the majors, and is from what I’ve heard is a better fielder. So he’s already probably better than Diory, and there is much more reason to believe he’d get better.
The Goche - October 23, 2010
P.S. I don’t mean to imply that Nunez is anything special. Just that even a guy like that is much better than Diory or Hicks. Not that it matters, because I do think any such deal is unlikely, but more it just goes to the point that no one is going to enjoy watching Diory or Hicks play any kind of significant role for the Braves next season, and that even with the obnoxiously bad OBP, he’s still much more valuable than any other reasonable option I’ve seen yet.
Even a guy like Hardy who we could get at a reasonable price is only marginally better than Gonzalez (if at all, Hardy still is just a .320ish OBP guy) and he made 5 million last year and will probably get a raise as a free agent. As much as I’d love someone better than Gonzalez, I just don’t think any other guy we really have a shot to get would be much better, and would almost certainly cost a lot more.
The Goche - October 23, 2010
I completely agree, but Hicks had a great season in high A a couple of years ago…and i think he is still living on that…i know i still think of that…but he has been pretty bad the past year or two.
Swo12bv - October 23, 2010
I didn't say that Hicks was going to be any good ...
.274/.318/.369/.687
Those are Nunez’s numbers in the minors. He’s a lousy hitter too.
Lennox - October 23, 2010
That’s a little unfair to Nunez, in the last 2 years he went .322/.349/.782 as a 22 year old in his 1st year of AA, and .289/.340/.381 as a 23 year old in his first year of AA.
That’s actually solid, if not especially special. He’s actually hit as he’s reached higher levels at a relatively young age. I’d say he’s given a lot of indication he might continue to improve as a hitter.
Incidentally, he is a good basestealer. Not that he steals a ton of bases, but he has a nice success rate.
This is all just academic anyway as I don’t expect us to get him, but I do think he has some value, and more than we have anywhere close to the majors at pretty much any infield position (other than Freddie).
The Goche - October 24, 2010
to clear that up the 782 is his OPS not his SLG…just if anyone was confused how Nunez SLGd 782…
Swo12bv - October 24, 2010
BTW. WTF
now The Natural will play the World Series
joshant - October 22, 2010
Supplied by ATL and the Texeria deal
Feliz, Andrus,Harrison, Salty, and lastly Frenchy (acquired via trade from Mets- not us), man oh man what a wise move that was. Tex hurt his hammy in the series as well, so typical What a true joke Tex has become sense going to the Yankees for nothing more than the money which is why the Yankees are again suffering another early exit from the postseason.
Still hurts to watch Feliz kid throwing 99 with ease in a clutch time in the top of ninth tonight. Still kimbrel is gonna be a beast, one that hurts the most is losing Andrus, whom we really could use right now, ASAP.
Holty_Panthers_Fan - October 22, 2010
Can't agree more. Now we're looking for a shortstop when we could have had Andrus.
rubbles88 - October 22, 2010
hmmmm
we would have kept Feliz as a starter and he’d be pretty lights out for us.
we’d have Andrus at SS. Escobar, most likely, would have gone, probably with Salty, in a pacakge for a RH bat. Let’s say we did a Escobar, Salty (no need for him, still), R. Delgado and B. Beachy for JUpside deal.
Harrison was just, well, ugh. But could have been included in the deal for McClouth. Thus allowing us to keep Locke. More importantly, with Feliz, we don’t sign KK. I’m asssuming we still sign Lowe, based on the uncertainty with Hudson at the time. We would have NEVER gotten embarassed in the Furcal crap, either.
We’d be looking next year of a team of:
1. Andrus – SS
2. Prado – 3B
3. Heyward – RF
4. JUpside – LF/CF
5. McCann – C
6. McClouth/Diaz – CF/LF
7. Freeman – 1B
8. Infante – 2B
still lefty-heavy, but with LOADS of youth and potential. the rotation is even scarier.
1. Hudson
2. Lowe
3. Hanson
4. Feliz
5. Minor
with Kimbrel and Venters in the ‘pen. more impotantly, we’d have some $$$$$$ to spend (KK) for arb contracts.
apoxonbothyourhouses - October 23, 2010
How would Feliz...
prevent us from signing KK??
Feliz threw all of 30 innings last season for the Rangers, all in relief, for a team that had a horrible rotation at the time. Although our rotation lacked depth at the start of last season (necessitating the Lowe and KK deals), there’s no way he would have been a starter at the beginning of the season. Hanson didn’t even get brought up until June.
-C
cthabeerman - October 23, 2010
This scenario
Is just so helpful. Thanks so much for your contributions
kauf67 - October 24, 2010
it's almost depressing to look at
kbertling353 - October 25, 2010
Andrus
Andrus was surplus, he was blocked by Yunel. Oh wait…
Yakker - October 25, 2010
Would be like saying Bethancourt is blocked by McCann...
at the time, Andrus was so young, he wasn’t really “blocked” by anyone until at least another year or two of development, and a whole lot, as we have seen, can change in a couple years.
Mr. Sanchez - October 26, 2010
Another backup SS ?
Why Nunez is nothing more than or any better than B. Hicks or Diory ?
Stop trading with the Yankees we already have their best farm system pitcher in Vizzy.
SS that could hit leadoff would be nice , but I am very happy with Gonzo next season. However after 2011 season SS is a position that is gonna need to be seriously addressed.
Holty_Panthers_Fan - October 22, 2010
Yankees...you mad?!
Go spend another 100 million on players and try again next year.
Scott Coleman - October 22, 2010 via mobile
LOL I am on Cloud NINE tonight
LOVE THAT THE YANKEES ARE DONE ! WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY AND TIME true though be prepared for Crawford and Lee to be in NYC after the playoffs conclude, you cannot buy the WS anymore NEW YORK those years are over.
ABY
Anyone but tha Yankees !
Congrats Rangers fans you have waited a long time for this moment enjoy it.
Holty_Panthers_Fan - October 22, 2010
what about?
5 years 125 millions for Cliff Lee
6 years 160 millions for Carl Crawford
4 years 95 millions for Werth
2 years 25 millions for Jeter
use Swischer and Granderson as bench guys
joshant - October 22, 2010
3 of those four are completely likely…
Swo12bv - October 23, 2010
Now all we need is for the Giants to bounce the Phillies and I’ll be happy.
TonyAlmeyda - October 22, 2010
I have a bad feeling about that series.
Scott Coleman - October 23, 2010
the way the umps have been doing their job
I would be too
southman - October 23, 2010
Actually the umping has been pretty decent in that series with the exception of that foul bunt being called fair, unless I’m missing something.
TonyAlmeyda - October 23, 2010
Wren already said
Wren already said the infield is set for next year which most likely means the SS will be gonzalez
cjones2010 - October 23, 2010
speaking of the evil empire,
Texas won the series with them to go to the world series :D
southman - October 23, 2010
Maybe this has been suggested and shot down, but here goes anyhow
Any chance of Atlanta going after Lance Berkman? I’’m not sure what he’s being paid, but seems like he could be a great fit as a veteran presence behind Freeman next year. Just a thought…
WarEagle86 - October 23, 2010
Berkman Could be an option
The Yankees have a club option on him for next year tho and i see the Braves going after someone cheaper like Ty Wiggington,Xavier Nady or possibly resigning Troy Glaus to see if he has some of the power he had for June would probably be the most ideal option
cjones2010 - October 23, 2010
I read earlier this season about Hinske enjoying his role in helping younger players adjust and prepare. He might be a better choice than Glaus. Hinske understands his role, I hope we re-sign him.
bighop - October 23, 2010
No.
Berkman can no longer hit RH, so a platoon would be unworkable with Freeman.
It isn’t going to happen.
UMDBHIK - October 23, 2010
ESPN must be crapping their pants right now – no Yankees or Phillies in the World Series? But, but…they have STARS?!?!?!!?
justincredubil02 - October 24, 2010
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