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Neither of these players were the answer to Atlanta's offensive woes in 2010.
With the season behind us it's time to look at the five most pressing issues facing the Atlanta Braves this off-season, and what some possible outcomes might be. This is the first of a five-part series of posts that will be on the site today and throughout the weekend.
Question One: Can the Braves actually add a power bat this off-season?
After having failed the last two off-seasons to add a power bat, will the Braves finally spend the money or give up the prospects to add one this year? It's frustrating, because when I look around this Braves team that will take the field for 2011, I see one big gaping hole that needs filling ... the same big gaping hole that hasn't been filled the last two off-seasons (fitting that the Braves are in Atlanta, the city of 10,000 potholes).
The starting pitching is set, with a very solid 1-through-4 in the rotation, and two good young rookies who could battle it out for the fifth spot. The bullpen has some great power arms in it, and only needs a few additions here and there. The infield is set, and the outfield is set except for left field where there is a perfect spot to add a major impact player.
I will not be happy with another Troy Glaus-like reclamation project. I will not be happy with a platoon of ANY kind. I want a bonafide star player who can go to the post 160 times a year and put up All-Star numbers. Yes, I'm asking for the moon, but the Braves have to make up for the slight of offense at shortstop and center field, perhaps a rookie learning the ropes at first base, and a veteran coming back from injury at third base. I'm willing to see the Braves give up good prospects to make this happen, maybe not Teheran or Freeman, but anyone else is fair game.
The Braves should get in the middle of the Jayson Werth and Carl Crawford and Adam Dunn discussions, even if they don't bear fruit they would express the team's willingness to spend big on a big-time player. The name most-rumored will probably be Colby Rasmus, and I would risk giving up another Adam Wainwright to get him on this Braves team and have him grow as a player right along side Heyward and Freeman.
Not adding a substantial outfielder to this team this off-season would be a major failure by the front office. It needs to happen. It must happen. And with the prospects we have in our system, it can happen.
Adding a power bat goes part and parcel with another off-season priority for Atlanta, finding a hitting coach. Attracting a great hitting coach is a lot easier if there's enough talent on the team for him to do something with it. With how badly the Atlanta offense struggled this season at times, especially near the end, it may be seen as a mine field for someone new to walk in to. Adding one extra big power bat would give us a fifth-place hitter, and make life a whole lot easier for whoever takes over as the Braves new hitting coach.
Coming up later, Question Two: What about the last spot in the rotation?
0 recs | 403 comments
Seems to me we're one of the better options for Dunn.
He really wants to play the outfield again and we’re one of the few teams that can and would allow him to play there. Our defense there will be sub par whether Dunn is there or not, and he’ll likely take less money just for the chance.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Also,
We have the arms to get Rasmus whether he’s really available or not, and we need to get that deal done.
king of games - October 15, 2010
I don't think Dunn cares whether...
…he plays OF or 1B, he just doesn’t want to DH. At least I haven’t heard anything about it. Yes, our defense might be subpar without Dunn. However, with Dunn in the OF, it drops to abysmal. He is simply not an outfielder. The metrics say he is the worst ever, more or less, and watching him is painful. He doesn’t know where the ball is going, he doesn’t know how to get to where the ball is going when he figures out where it is going, and he doesn’t know what to do with the ball if he ever happens to be where the ball is coming down.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
Our pitching can make up for a few extra errors in the field (see this entire past year). What they can’t make up for is no run support, and 40 homers per year would go far in fixing that problem.
king of games - October 15, 2010
It's not the errors...
…it is the errors plus the balls he just doesn’t get to. The metrics show that when Dunn plays in the OF, he just about completely gives back as many runs with the glove as he gets you with the bat. He really is that bad.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
We survived with Melky in LF for us this year. I think the added offense by Dunn would more than make up for that.
dunnytwogloves - October 15, 2010
+1
rookiefan - October 15, 2010
Uh… but we can do better. So that’s a crappy argument. A dead horse would be better than Melky and Adam Dunn in the outfield is only barely better than a dead horse.
Perrinbar - October 15, 2010
Stop beating a dead horse.
Tarkus - October 15, 2010
Seriously.
LOL @ Adam Dunn anywhere other than 1B or DH. Him in the outfield would be a complete disaster.
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
THIS
KamikaziMelon - October 15, 2010
But
Is he better than Melky? Hitting, yes. Fielding, likely yes. How you make up for his defensive deficiencies is to get a stud defensive CF’er with range like crazy. This is what the Braves did with Andruw Jones for years. I’d still take his 30-40 homers every year and give up 20 errors in left with the pitching staff we have.
Matthew Jones - October 15, 2010
No, he's not a better fielder
if that lets you in on how bad his D is. It’s horrid. He’s a 1B and 1B only.
Mr. Sanchez - October 15, 2010
Until.......
We got to turn two lmao, I think he might hold the record for errors into left field in one season lol. I would put him ONLY as a DH. Who cares how he feels, clearly he cant play the field.
SkipTOoMyL0U_ - October 15, 2010
Fielding?
You are kidding right? No, Melky is light years better in the field than Dunn. And I am not saying Melky is any good, he’s not. Dunn is just that much worse than anyone. He is seriously the worst defensive outfielder in modern history, and perhaps baseball history, but that is hard to judge.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
If you get a plus defensively ranged CF, Heyward can cover a bit of center, that it wouldn’t be that bad.
Broccoman - October 15, 2010
Your great gondeee, but...
… getting a big outfielder through free agency just isn’t feasible for the Braves. There are only two available: Werth and Crawford. By my calculations, we’ll have about $10-12 million to spend this offseason based on savings from Wags and Saito and Glaus and Melky and Diaz(?), less arbitration raises to various players. Wren has already said that payroll will be about the same (obviously this is the fiat from our corporate overlords) so I don’t see how we are even in the discussion for Werth and Crawford.
That leaves Adam Dunn. Notice that I left him out of my list of big free agent outfielders above. There was a good reason for this: he should not be allowed anywhere near the outfield. Yes, he has spent most of his career impersonating an outfielder. Do not let that fool you into thinking that he can play the position. Defensive metrics show that Dunn is literally the worst fielding outfielder in the history of baseball among those who played the position for any length of time. From your post, it appears you consider that centerfield will be held down by McLouth. A CF-LF combination of Dunn and McLouth would be horrific.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Dunn’s bat. But if we sign him, we need to start seeing how we can trade Freddie for an outfielder because Freddie won’t have anywhere to play and we’ll still be short an outfielder.
As for Rasmus, I really doubt he’s available; and if he is, it is the Cardinals; they want to win now, so it will take major league ready players, not just prospects. We’ve discussed it ad nauseum in the rosterbation thread, but the most realistic trade scenario for Rasmus involved Prado and a minor prospect. Remember that after the spat went public, all of the sudden LaRussa played Rasmus every day. Seems like the Cards took Rasmus’s side on this one.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
Epic grammar fail
“your”???? Where is my head. I guess I was so incredulous at the thought of Dunn as an outfielder, I lost all sense of what I was typing.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
I’m with you on Rasmus. Not 100% impossible, but out of the realm of possibility. And I highly doubt that the Braves are considering him to be a primary answer to the Outfield problem. I think that Adam Dunn, if used correctly (at 1B) would be the ideal answer. Can Freddie play the outfield?
frozendesert - October 15, 2010
Freddie...
…as far as I know has never played in the OF. That being said, if we had both of them, I’d rather stick Freddie in left having never played the position before and put Dunn at first than putting Dunn in LF. This would also leave us incredibly left-handed. If we include 1B in the mix, there are more options than just Dunn (although I really love Dunn’s bat).like Huff, Konerko, Lee, and Carlos Pena.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
Uhh...
I like Dunn over anybody on that list except Konerko. Not a great market.
frozendesert - October 15, 2010
Dunn's certainly the best hitter of the group...
…but it is a great market compared to the OF market, which is Crawford, Werth, and well, a load of crap.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
LH
If we sign Dunn, we have 2 everyday guys that bat RH, 1 switch hitter and 5 (!!) lefties. And we thought we’d struggled against LHPs for the last few years…
Fatvirus - October 15, 2010
This may sound like a weird suggestiong but...
If we have to why don’t we put Heyward in canter, McLouth in left in Dunn in right? Heyward played CF in the minors and Dunn was a RF before he was converted to 1B.
Richie Grogan - October 15, 2010
Heyward loses a lot of defensive value in Center.
king of games - October 15, 2010
I’m not a big fan of any scenario that includes the word McLouth.
rookiefan - October 15, 2010
What if he changed his name?
You know, like one of our minor leaguers.
Tarkus - October 15, 2010
That could work..
but then he would also need to change his body with one of a good baseball player.
rookiefan - October 15, 2010
Good point.
That, or time travel back to his Pirate days.
Tarkus - October 15, 2010
I have only heard of this mystical, well hitting McLouth. I have really only been a big baseball fan since the beginning of this year (hint: my name is rookiefan, original huh?). But going off what I have seen in a Braves uni is that mystical Mclouth is about as elusive as the three toed magenta unicorn.
rookiefan - October 15, 2010
Well, he did hit well for a week or two this past season.
Tarkus - October 15, 2010
ok.. he is not as horrible as I maybe making him out to be, and who knows he may get hot and have another season or two like he did in Pitt. but i still prefer a consistent decent playing OF. I don’t think that is to much to ask.
rookiefan - October 15, 2010
Agreed.
Tarkus - October 15, 2010
I don't want any of that Pirate bad mojo near this team....
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
So you don't want Chuck Tanner to return as manager?
Tarkus - October 15, 2010
How about Jose Bautista?
Salty - October 15, 2010
I'm not sure how good of a manager he'd be.
Tarkus - October 15, 2010
How about McClouth?
ryantex - October 16, 2010
Why do that?
Dunn is no better in right than in left. Dunn is simply not an acceptable OF answer. He is not an outfielder.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
Out of the box
If we can sign Adam Dunn, we should put him at a position where his defense can hurt us the least ( or at the position where his inept defense can be masked by positional necessity), and that would seem to be First Base (unreliable for a short sample size, but UZR of just -3.1 at 1B this year). Could Freeman play the outfield, where his younger and presumably healthier legs and athletic ability at age 21 would mask his own defensive ineptness?
This is my ideal (in realm of possibility, anyway- Colby Rasmus is well of out that) scenario for the upcoming season.
frozendesert - October 15, 2010
Who cares if Dunn’s defense in LF is bad, at least he’ll make up for it on offense, unlike the LFers we’ve been throwing out there for years.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Yeah… that was my initial response (I don’t trust defensive metrics in the Outfield), but lots of people smarter than me (both scouts and sabermetricians) have told us that this is an awful, awful idea. Put him at 1B, put Freddie in Left.
frozendesert - October 15, 2010
Dunn is one guy
that scouts and stats guys can all agree is just abysmal in the field.
Freddie is not an option in LF, either, from what I hear. If the Braves were going to move him to LF, they would have done it in AAA this year, not in the majors in 2011.
Jacob Peterson - October 15, 2010
There's basically zero chance that Dunn would sign
for a low enough salary to make up for his horrible—not bad, HORRIBLE—defense in LF. He may be worth 40-50 runs with his bat, but his defense in LF gives back 20-30 of that (maybe even more as he ages). At 1B, he “only” gives back 10-20 runs, which might make him worth signing if we didn’t already have Freeman. In other words, no way do I want him.
Jacob Peterson - October 15, 2010
I’d take our chances with our pitching being able to hold a few extra runners over getting no run support.
king of games - October 15, 2010
As others have mentioned above...
Back in the days of Andruw (or even Rick, this year), it would be acceptable to have a hole out in LF because a good CF can minimize Dunn’s horrible D. But, if we’re planning to put McLouth in CF, then that just doesn’t work. We essentially have one solid OF on a team with pitchers that rely on defense.
Dunn just isn’t going to work
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
I refuse to admit that Nate will be anything more than our 4th OFer.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Then, who's playing CF? Melkster? Rick?
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
someone
who’s not on the 40-man yet (i.e. not yet a Brave), or Heyward
HansonManCrush - October 15, 2010
Melky and Ankiel are both gone next year.
king of games - October 15, 2010
My dark horse for the CF job is Schafer…if he’s 100% healthy I think he can win the job in ST.
Dave_D - October 15, 2010
He isn’t healthy. And its gonna take time for him to recover.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
If Schafer is 100% healhty next year I’m 100% sure he would take CF. But I’m about 5% sure he isn’t going to be healthy enough to win CF at the begining of the year.
bbxxj - October 15, 2010
Remember...
..Schafer had the same numbers as McLouth last year, but did it at AAA and AA.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
Yuck!
Tarkus - October 15, 2010
Cody Ross
Mr. Sanchez - October 15, 2010
Put him in SS
and resign Hisnke and put him in 2B
move Chipper to LF
joshant - October 15, 2010
You’re kidding, right?
frozendesert - October 15, 2010
Of course he is...
Chipper is the SS.
Mr. Sanchez - October 15, 2010
haha
this!
HansonManCrush - October 15, 2010
Freeman
was a 3B in high school. the kid’s athletic. but putting him on a Major League Roster to play LF without any training would be moronic. utterly destroy his confidence. plus, he’s a better 1B than Dunn is defensively.
let’s forget about Dunn. It’s Werth or a trade.
apoxonbothyourhouses - October 16, 2010
We put Klesko in Left without any training, and his confidence wasn’t shattered, even after the Mets got that HR off his head.
He may be a bad LF, but I doubt he’d be worse then Hinske.
Broccoman - October 16, 2010
Rasmus is obviously the best option, since we also desperately need a CF… The problem is that I’m not sure he’s even really available. For instance, if LaRussa doesn’t return, there is no way that Rasmus is traded. And even if LaRussa stays, there’s a pretty good chance that they just mend their hard feelings. I would LOVE to get Rasmus, even if it meant trading some top prospects, but I just don’t think it’s likely. Wren should try everything he can to make it work, though.
As for the other options, I think none of the free agents is likely at all. Werth and Crawford are awesome, but out of our price range. Dunn can only play 1B, and we have a a first baseman (if we were in the AL, I’d be all over him, but I’m glad we’re not in the AL). Beyond that, we’re talking about guys like Cody Ross, who may be slight upgrades, but would hardly qualify as “big bats”.
I think Wren needs to think out of the box and make a trade for a player that no one is speculating about.
Jacob Peterson - October 15, 2010
true
But I absolutely agree that the last few outfield “solutions” have been unacceptable.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
McLouth was acceptable...
for about 6 weeks, until he fell off a cliff.
Jacob Peterson - October 15, 2010
and bounced a few times at the bottom, and then bobby put him back in the line up.
rookiefan - October 15, 2010
This is true...
…but unless we pull off something impressive, there just might not be anything available. My guess is that the best OF we could reasonably acquire is David DeJesus. A good, solid player, but not exactly a superstar.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
I'd take DeJesus in a heartbeat
provided we don’t give up too much for him. He may not be a power bat, but he’s above-average, which is quite a bit more than we’ve gotten lately.
Jacob Peterson - October 15, 2010
He should be available for a couple of mid-level prospects...
…I would guess. He’s a reasonably priced rental, and the Royals will take kids. Maybe Delgado and a minor prospect. (Not that we really need to give anything more than Delgado, but I think teams dumping for prospects like to get multiple players just to make it look better.)
cavebird - October 15, 2010
I think we should make a run at Matt Kemp while his value is low. I think he’d function better in the Braves’ low-pressure environment, and he’s probably at least somewhat available.
Jacob Peterson - October 15, 2010
Plus Rihanna could show up at the games.
king of games - October 15, 2010
I would love
to see Kemp play for the Braves. He is a superstar talent. It would take a big prospect package to get him though, even with the off-year.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
I doubt he is as available as you think.
It would probably take as much to get him as Rasmus. Neither is particularly feasible. Both the Cards and Dodgers are not teams that do full rebuilds, so each would want major league ready players. To get either, you are probably talking about giving up Prado.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
Yup
And I doubt that he would be centerpiece of the deal if one where to happen.
frozendesert - October 15, 2010
Still hoping the Dodgers’ ownership situation will help us out with Kemp
award6 - October 15, 2010
No way the Dodgers could ask for the same prospects as the Cards
when Kemp is a one year rental coming off an awful (for him) season.
J-Turn14 - October 15, 2010
Nevermind.
Kemp isn’t a free agent next ofseason. I saw someone on another board say he was and didn’t do any fact checking. Still think Rasmus is more valuable but not a lot.
J-Turn14 - October 15, 2010
D. Lowe
With Derek’s stock at a very, wery high point right now, do you think Wren might try to move him and take a hit on the salary? This could free up some room for a push in the Crawford/Werth sweepstakes.
This is most likely too much of a risk as we would probably just drive up the price of the two FA’s and be left with a sub-par player (a la Melky), all while losing a reliable innings eater who could be at the top of his game.
Just a random/off the wall thought.
Belliard - October 15, 2010
I posted this yesterday actually.
I guess it could be an option to bid on Crawford/Werth first and trade Lowe if we were able to sign one of them.
king of games - October 15, 2010
From reports, it seemed as if he changed his mechanics with McDowell before the final month. And for once, the change in mechanics actually showed an extremely positive effect in his pitching. If that mechanic change is for real, I want him to stay, even at 15 Million.
frozendesert - October 15, 2010
As long as he can stick with the change in mechanics and stay on a steady regimen of cortisone, say every 5 starts, I’m OK with keeping him too.
Belliard - October 15, 2010
If he can show his September/October stats, if only for 3 months, even with some regression, he would still be a top-10 pitcher (in the NL).
frozendesert - October 15, 2010
He definitely would.
Belliard - October 15, 2010
Showing a an ERA under 2
for three months is quite a stretch for Derek Lowe, or any pitcher. Don’t count on thatl I would be happy if he puts up an ERA at around 4.00 for the season.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
I wouldn’t be happy with a 4.00. Well, I would be happy with a 4.00 GPA, but not ERA. I think that his late season showing (in a September and an October? When the pitcher is supposed to be completely gassed, especially one’s Lowe age) shows that he can do much better.
frozendesert - October 15, 2010
Again
he made some big changes at the end there. By mid April the scouting report will be out on his new slider and approach. We’ll see how it goes. He will also be 1 year older, and he still has something moving around in his elbow (which I can’t imagine will be helped by throwing more sliders).
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
ERA around 3.5 and another 200+ innings and I’m happy.
king of games - October 15, 2010
I would be thrilled
I don’t think it will happen, but I certainly wouldn’t complain if it did.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
Not really that far off what he’s been giving us the last few years.
king of games - October 15, 2010
except
his ERA has been above 4 the past 2 years. though his xFIP was 3.65 this season
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
Technically it wasn’t avove 4 this year, it WAS 4.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
if that happens
Our rotation is at the top of the league again next year.
Fatvirus - October 15, 2010
Also...
Let’s add in that his best months came when the weather was cooler and he wasn’t sweating like a pig and blistering up every game. I agree that Sept and Oct Lowe are no sure things to return next June/July
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
I’ll take April/May/Sept/Oct, with a less effective Lowe in June/July/August
Pavy848 - October 15, 2010
In Georgia though, his ineffectiveness really starts in May. And, personally, I’m not a fan of paying $15 million for a guy that pitches well for only half the season.
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
Teheran and Freeman excluded
Give whatever neccesary to get any 2 of Rasmus, Kemp, Quentin, DeJesus, or Willingham. I might even be willing to part with JT for Ryan Braun.
king of games - October 15, 2010
That won't get...
…Rasmus or Kemp. DeJesus is possible. Not sure about Willingham, but may be possible. No real clue about Quentin. Braun just isn’t going to happen.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
Not sure
I would want Quentin.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
really?
you don’t want a poor OFer with a .245 BA? REALLY?
Fatvirus - October 15, 2010
We could go and get Francoeur.
frozendesert - October 15, 2010
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
saipol - October 16, 2010
It's not even the BA
His OBP is still acceptable for his career. But it is the fact that he has only played as many as 130 games of the 162 game season twice in his career. Acceptable for a guy with Chipper Jones’ history. Not for Carlos Quentin who is only 28-29.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
And he’s terrible in the field.
frozendesert - October 15, 2010
But not Adam Dunn turrible.
Salty - October 15, 2010
No, nobody...
…in the history is really Adam Dunn horrible in the OF. He is in a class by himself.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
who OPSed .821? i'd take that bat.
he’s not a poor OF. average.
apoxonbothyourhouses - October 16, 2010
Rasmus and DeJesus are possible...
but Kemp will require more valuable prospects just because of his name value and experience.
I thinks Rasmus is still gettable, but obviously, DeJesus would be the cheapest option.
Braun would require the sun and moon, especially with Prince leaving this year. No way MIL trades their other “name” player the same year. Like it or not, there’s a PR element at play.
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
What positions do Sun and Moon play? I’m totally willing to part with them for Braun.
king of games - October 15, 2010
The posting fee
required by North Korea will be huge.
Salty - October 15, 2010
The sun and moon for the Braves....
…is named Jason. And he’s the one guy we don’t trade for Braun, or really anybody else.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
Crawford please.
TCfromDubVee - October 15, 2010
so
if you think we’re weak against LH pitching now, adding Crawford would SOOOO change that.
apoxonbothyourhouses - October 16, 2010
So we can argue all day about what we should do, but the question is, what are we going to realistically get?
To be quite honest, I think that Wren sits pat mostly on offense and signs a platoon partner for Diaz to play with next year. I don’t want this to be all that ends up happening, but numbers say that even though all of those injuries hit (Heyward, Jones, Prado) and certain players lost any ability to play baseball (McLouth, Glaus, Escobar, Cabrera, Diaz to a certain degree), we still had a damn good offense last year. Up near the top in both metric styles: wOBA and runs.
Although I would love to get a true superstar, or even a star, or even an everyday player, this lineup has been shown to work over a long season the way it is structured. I think that the relative upgrades in the Outfield (hopefully the resurgence of McLouth, the continued development of Heyward, and the non-tender of the Chicken Tender, Melky), followed by consistency at 1B (Freeman) and restoration of our bench players to being bench players (Infante) will mean that we will become an even better offense than last year.
Hopefully.
I think that this is what is going to end up happening.
frozendesert - October 15, 2010
i tend to agree
however, Wren needs to boost the offense and, honestly, the 10 million coming off due to Wagner and Saito will HAVE to be used for the offense.
I think Werth makes too much sense, honestly. His defense is decent, his bat and speed are fine. He would compliment Heyward just like he compliments Howard. While I think his slugging % would suffer a bit at the Ted, his BA may improve (rather than slugging for the fences, he might improve his hitting technique). If we could get him for 15 million a year for 4-5 years, I think we HAVE to do it.
I would love to get Ty Wiggington. I just like him. He’s RH. He can play all the infield positions (but 3B and 2B are his best). If we put Prado at 3B, Ty at 2B (or vice versa) until Chipper comes back and then we could rest everyone. Basically, he replaces Conrad but is a better bat and glove. I think it would cost someone like JJ Hoover. I would do it.
I think that we REALLY need to address the CF situation. We will non tender Melky. We will, probably, non tender Diaz. That leaves McLouth. I think we then trade McLouth + AGon + Delgado to the Twins for JJ Hardy + Denard Spann + Danny Valencia. We get Speed, flexibility and defense. The Twins get Delgado and a cheaper SS while taking on our crap.
Lineup:
1. Spann (CF)
2. Prado (2B/3B)
3. Heyard (RF)
4. Werth (LF)
5. McCann ©
6. Wiggington (3B/2B)
7. Freeman (1B)
8. Hardy (SS)
Balanced lineup with speed, youth, and MUCH more power. PLUS, we’re around the same amount of money.
apoxonbothyourhouses - October 16, 2010
I like how McCann's name is copyrighted.
pancanbra - October 16, 2010
7. Freeman™
Tarkus - October 16, 2010
Wow. Way to dream on that trade. They’re gonna give you a good young, proven outfielder, a young third baseman with a ton of upside who’s also played in the Majors, and a ML caliber SS, all for an arguably equal ML caliber SS, a AA pitcher, who while he has tons of upside hasn’t proven anything, and an expensive outfielder who plays best in AAA? Why would they do that?
cbwilk - October 16, 2010
why would they do that… because Frank Wren knows the powers of the dark side…which if you are not aware is significantly more powerful than the Jedi’s powers….so he can pretty much make any trade he wants…he doesnt to keep things fair though…
Swo12bv - October 19, 2010
I mean this lineup is alright.......
1. Prado
2. Rasmus/Hewyard
3. Jones
4. Dunn
5. McCann
6. Rasmus/Hewyard
7. A-Gon/Freeman
8. Freeman/AGon
Our best hitter in the playoffs or last couple days of the season was Tim Hudson. No Joke
braves077 - October 15, 2010
Yeah
I would give Wren my next year’s paycheck if he can make that happen.
frozendesert - October 15, 2010
That's a nice lineup.
Not so nice in the field. With two guys playing at 1B and nobody in left, it would be a mess.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
Again
this is why I staked my paycheck. I would love to see Dunn play CF.
frozendesert - October 15, 2010
Speaking of horrible fielders
I wonder how much of Carlos Lee’s contract Houston would eat?
Fatvirus - October 15, 2010
It doesn't matter.
Lee loves living in Houston and has a full no-trade clause that he has made clear that he will exercise. The Astros were trying to move all the high priced guys this year, but Lee wasn’t and isn’t going anywhere.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
And
how much of the contract Houston would eat for me to be interested (were I the GM) would be pretty much all of it. I doubt the Astros would be interested in that.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
He’s only making $37MM over the next two years while putting up around a .770 OPS the last two years and playing horrible defense. LETS TRADE TEHERAN
Fatvirus - October 15, 2010
He does love Houston
and I could be wrong, but I think next season his contract becomes partial no-traded and then he loses it the last year. I could see him bounce back offensively. He’s pretty adept at playing caroms at Minute Maid and there are also some smaller parks in the NL Central, but it wouldn’t be ideal to see El Caballo galloping around bigger parks regularly.
Salty - October 15, 2010
I don't know how Much Housto would eat.
But I bet Carlos would eat the contract if you put it in front of him and poured some gravy over it
J-Turn14 - October 15, 2010
HAHAAHAHAHA
Rec’d
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
Dream Team
Let’s say Chipper selflessly takes a huge paycut in lieu of a much smaller, incentive laden contract, which will allow us to put a meaningful offer on the able for Crawford/Werth. All at the same time, Wren lands Rasmus from the Cards for JJ and some prospects (JT and FF excluded). Wow, that would be amazing.
Belliard - October 15, 2010
No way...
Chipper has already cut his contract twice to help us. And with retirement on the horizon, he’d basically just be giving away money. He’s nice…but not THAT nice.
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
I know...
Not to mention he was quoted as saying one of the reasons he was coming back from the ACL injury was because “you can make a ridiculous amount of money playing baseball”… Hey, a guy can dream though…
Belliard - October 15, 2010
Most likely to happen option
To me I think the most probable – though maybe not my favourate option – is Cody Ross. This is why:
1. He should be realtively easy to aquire compared to Rasmus or Kemp if SF tenders him a contract and there is a fair chace he gets nontendered anyways. He keeps us within budget to get more veteran pen help and allows us to keep all of our current starters and all of our top prospects.
2. He played for Gonzo and he may want Wren to bring one of ‘his boys’ in.
3. His defense in center is better than McLouth, Cabrera and from what I can tell Ankiel. His arm is much better than McLouth and with him in center and McLouth moving over to left you have a plus fielding left fielder.
4. He hits right handed and he has historically hit lefties well (career .946 OPSvsLHP and .883 OPSvsLHP in 2010) and a career .305 ISOvsLHP that is very solid and cleanup worthy vsLHP
5. In three full seasons to his name he has two 22+HR years while hitting in a pitching park in both Florida and San Fran.
Its not that I wouldn’t want Crawford, Werth, Rasmus, or Kemp its just that getting any one of those players would either drain all of our FA budget and then some or cost us dearly in top prospects and/or a current rotation member like Jurrjens or Minor.
bbxxj - October 15, 2010
At least he'd stop killing us.
Then again, maybe he’d pull a McLouth and blow up so he could burn us internally.
Pavy848 - October 15, 2010
1. Prado 2B
2. Heyward RF
3. Chipper 3B
4. McCann/Ross C/CF
5. Ross/McCann CF/C
6. McLouth/Diaz LF
7. Gonzalez SS
8. Freeman 1B
Then move Freeman up to 5 or 6 once he gets adjusted to the league.
bbxxj - October 15, 2010
I’ve been wanting to see Ross with the Braves for a few years. I think this is the time for it to happen.
cbwilk - October 16, 2010
If Ross keeps doing this...
…the Giants will keep him.
cavebird - October 17, 2010
Just a quick thought
Lets just stop the rosterbating idea of putting Freeman anywhere but first base. By all accounts, he was one of the best defensive first baseman in all of the minors so i see no reason to change that
BravesDawg16 - October 15, 2010
This. Thank you.
The Keith Lockhart Era - October 16, 2010
This. So much this.
cbwilk - October 16, 2010
I agree.
The only reason this keeps happening is that lots of people love Adam Dunn’s bat. Dunn, however, cannot play the OF—-he has proven this over many years of defensive OF play so abysmal it really is in its own category. Hence, if you want Dunn, he has to play first, so people start saying where else can Freeman play. The obvious solution is just to not sign Dunn, but some don’t want to give up on the idea.
cavebird - October 17, 2010
I’m assuming Lance Berkman is no longer capable of playing the outfield.
dutchschultz - October 15, 2010
he can't
and his bat sucked this year anyway. I followed him pretty close because he was on my fantasy team and he was awful all year
Fatvirus - October 15, 2010
Few other OFers to consider:
Ellsbury of course, Justin Upton, Grady Sizemore, Hunter Pence, Beltran, Delmon Young, Marcus Thames
king of games - October 15, 2010
I'd love to take a chance on Grady.
Pavy848 - October 15, 2010
I'd much rather have Choo...but don't think either would happen
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
Grady is more realistic than Choo. I think Grady could me had for one of Minor or Beachy and one of our better young arms.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Maybe...
I don’t know what Cleveland fans think of Grady anymore, but as I noted above with Braun, there’s a PR factor. And, for a struggling team like CLE to give up their “name” guy in Grady (granted, he may not be a “name” guy anymore), it might take a little bit just more placate the masses (even if he doesn’t warrant that kind of value).
Also, what’s his contract?
(Full disclosure: Grady ruined my fantasy team this year because in the 2nd round I didn’t pick fast enough and auto-draft decided to stick his dying body on my team and ruin it. I’m not bitter though…seriously)
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
wow
That sucks.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
7.5mil for 2011 and club option for 8.5 in 2012 with 500k buyout.
king of games - October 15, 2010
That's not horrible...
I’d still want an apology from him for ruining my fantasy season. But, if we got past that, I’d be ok with taking a risk on him for a mid-level prospect or two. He also plays CF…which is bonus.
However, because of his injury history, we’d probably have to take a Chipper-like approach to him and have a solid backup (Cody Ross or the like) that is expected to play 30-40+ games for him.
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
For those that can’t tell, I obviously get final say on all trades…
I’ve now officially become one of those MLBTR posters that I hate…ugh
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
Agreed.
Choo isn’t going anywhere though.
Pavy848 - October 15, 2010
He actually led Cleveland in all five offensive categories (Avg, Runs, RBIs, HRs and SBs)
king of games - October 15, 2010
Not at all surprised
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
Agreed...just saying he's the guy I'd want...
He was dominant
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
I'd take either.
The Keith Lockhart Era - October 16, 2010
I might have done likewise... BUT...
Two significant problems with Grady:
1. Microfracture knee surgery. Risky stuff. He would have to prove he’s healthy enough for 145+ games, but won’t be able to do so before Spring. That’s pretty late in the process for our purposes.
2. His numbers declined significantly in 2009. I would want to try and research the reasons for this.
If he’s the hitting he was in 2005-08, then yeah — no question. But we cannot afford a risky guy again this year.
carpengui - October 15, 2010
That’s why we could get him for cheap. The Braves have always taken chances on players like that, and they pay off more often then not.
king of games - October 15, 2010
He does bring up a good point about the surgery though...
Greg Oden is pretty broken because of that surgery…it’s no guarantee (although, basketball is obviously rougher on your knees than baseball)
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
Oden has had numerous other injuries besides that...
Amare Stoudamire, among others, prove it’s not a career ending surgery.
And I’d think the day in and day out play of baseball would make it pretty rough on the knees too, especially for a CF who runs a lot.
Mr. Sanchez - October 15, 2010
Sizemore also isn’t 7 feet tall and close to 300 lbs.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Dang...beat me to it
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
Yep...
and Oden is obviously 7 feet tall and close to 300 lbs. I was just saying it’s no guarantee like TJ surgery or anything.
I agree CF would be one of the rougher positions on the knees, but don’t basketball players run like 7-8 miles a game.
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
Neither is TJ surgery
FitzFan - October 15, 2010
Maggilio Ordonez had the same surgery and had a great year right after it…
and he actually plays baseball, so it is a better comparison
Swo12bv - October 19, 2010
Better example is Amare.
He was fantastic last year after a full year of recovery from his microfracture surgery.
Pavy848 - October 15, 2010
Justin Upton
I am not trying to be condescending, but there is a less than zero chance the Braves could acquire him.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
We have the young players to get pretty much whoever we want, it’s just a matter of what we’re willing to give up.
king of games - October 15, 2010
You would be willing to give up
Freeman, Teheran, Delgado, and Kimbrel? Because that would be about what it would take…at minimum.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
Maybe not all 4...
but at least 2 of the 4 with Freeman/Teheran having to be one of the guys
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
Wow, you are so overvalueing Upton.
king of games - October 15, 2010
I'm not
but the D’Backs will. My point is I wouldn’t want to give up a huge package like that for him.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
Since I'm out here and follow the DBacks...
there’s no way in hell it would take that much, but probably Teheran, Freeman and then either Salcedo or Bethancourt would work. Upton isn’t that great though. Trust me.
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
I would take Justin Upton in a second. Too bad he has that awful long-term contract with AZ. I really would hate to see Wren go after BJ Upton. Seems exactly like McLouth from the right side. Decent Power, TONS of K’s, sub .200 AVG, can cover a lot of ground in the OF, not a great arm.
Belliard - October 15, 2010
Awful? It’s a pretty fair contract.
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
Yeah, not bad at all
I wouldn’t mind a chance on BJ Upton too. If Tampa lets him go, he’ll have something to prove.
The Keith Lockhart Era - October 16, 2010
yes I am sure the Dbacks want to change a guy who has more talent than any OF not named Jason hewyard… that makes tons of sense….you do realie how good Upton is right…
Swo12bv - October 19, 2010
Me too, the Braves have a habit of taking injury prone players and making them work
king of games - October 15, 2010
Reply fail. Also, Marcus Thames could be a really good option, he hits for average against lefties and power against righties and would be in our price range.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Again, why is nobody mentioning Luke Scott?
Undocorkscrew - October 15, 2010
Baltimore is on the rise, they probably don’t want to part with him.
king of games - October 15, 2010
He's definitely a more realistic candidate than Rasmus and Kemp...
…as the Dodgers and Cardinals could easily get back to their old ways with a couple of additions.
Baltimore still has a LONG way to go.
Undocorkscrew - October 15, 2010
I agree....
Baltimore needs a lot of pitching — giving up one position player to gain one significant arm in the rotation in not unreasonable for them.
carpengui - October 15, 2010
Baltimore has a ton of young pitching...
…and not enough offense. They would be willing to part with Scott, but they would want hitters, not pitchers. They literally will have 4/5 of their rotation be prospects next year: Matusz, Tillman, Arrieta, Britton.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
Am I wrong in thinking that they (yes) have a bunch of arms, but few that were projectable to the front of the rotation?
carpengui - October 15, 2010
I think you are wrong.
Matusz is very projectable as is Tillman, 1/2 types if they pan out. Arrietta and Britton are probably more 3/4 types, but that still is a very solid set of young arms.
cavebird - October 17, 2010
True, but they would probably rather trade him at the deadline to some desperate team. The way they finished lat season, they probably want to see what they have first.
king of games - October 15, 2010
I just read some more about Scott. He’s going for his last year of arbitration – probably for something in the $6-8 mill. range. If our side was willing, we’d offer to take that salary off of the Orioles’ hands, and try to sign him for 3yr/$25m to be a Brave. In deference to another comment here, the time is pretty ripe to pry him away from Baltimore.
carpengui - October 15, 2010
He’s 32 and had a career year last year. Also, he’s a DH…so, I assume he’s not much a defender, but I could be wrong on this.
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
he's also LH
I’m assuming they’re hard pressed for RH bats unless people are considering Scott to be a Platoon with Diaz
HansonManCrush - October 15, 2010
Yeah, he's a lefty...
…but he has a .788 OPS against lefties in his career as opposed to an .878 OPS against righties.
Undocorkscrew - October 15, 2010
I'm
a huge fan of Luke Scott (and the O’s for that matter) and I would love seeing him in Atlanta, but I’m not sure if he gets a look solely based on his LH bat…
HansonManCrush - October 15, 2010
oooo….. Heyward – McCann — Freeman — Scott. Still, the Braves already suck against LHP, although at least 3 of these 4 hang in there fairly well. But that’s a lot of LH’s in a single lineup.
carpengui - October 15, 2010
This!
Everyone seems so worried about what side of the plate guys hit from instead of how they actually perform. I don’t care if we have 8 left handed hitters if they hit BOTH right and left handed pitching.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Checked on that – he would be fine in LF. Doesn’t look like he hurts himself out there. Roughly average fielding.
carpengui - October 15, 2010
unless he's running with scissors
then he’d probably get hurt at some point
HansonManCrush - October 15, 2010
Thanks for bringing that to our attention – fangraphs whiffed on that one.
carpengui - October 15, 2010
DAN UGGLA
Is the man that I would most like to see acquired. Arb-elligible, and due for a big raise, which the Marlins hate, he is a Freddi guy, he spoke out against the spoiled Hanley, and he’s proved he can repeat his success. I would swing a trade for this guy and give up Delgado and more to do it.
JFP - October 15, 2010
where does he play in the field?
HansonManCrush - October 15, 2010
You figure out which one can play 2b better (I’m thinking Prado) – stick the other one in LF. Uggla has no ML experience in the outfield, but… I’d try it.
carpengui - October 15, 2010
Prado can also play 3rd when Chipper inevitably gets hurt.
king of games - October 15, 2010
How 'bout....
Chipper to LF (might be safer), Prado 3rd, and Uggla 2nd?
carpengui - October 15, 2010
I’d rather put Prado in LF as he plays there in the winters and is more than capable. Although he might get injured a bit more out there, I don’t know.
Dave_D - October 15, 2010
Chipper decides what Chipper does, and nobody else.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Sheesh....
This isn’t Alphie Soriano we’re talking about here…
No, I don’t really expect that this would happen… just rosterbating outside the box (which is kinda the idea here). But rest assured, if Chipper thought it would help the team to go to the bullpen as a long reliever, he’d start working on a slider tomorrow.
carpengui - October 15, 2010
If you rosterbate outside the box, you make sure you have tissues...
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
Baby wet wipes...
I’ve found work best in that situation.
Mr. Sanchez - October 15, 2010
Agree
And since we’re in for a long off-season, I went to Sam’s last week.
carpengui - October 15, 2010
Seriously?
Chipper will never go back to LF. He blames his health problems to his stint in LF when he was younger. Never gonna happen.
Pavy848 - October 15, 2010
Uggla
said numerous times last year he doesn;t want to switch positions… I think we all know how Chipper in LF works out… The leaves Prado… And most players suffer at the plate when playing a new positon… I’m just sayin…
HansonManCrush - October 15, 2010
Could some of that been down to positional weighting for arbitration. His numbers as a 2b put him in the top 5 for MLB but as a LFer it puts him lower down the scale hurting his arbitration dollars. I think if the right team gets him, and signs him to an extension then he won’t have a problem going to left field.
JFP - October 15, 2010
Fredi spell check demerit.
That’s your first. Be careful out there.
carpengui - October 15, 2010
where
does he play in the field? Prado is already at 2b
HansonManCrush - October 15, 2010
reply fail
HansonManCrush - October 15, 2010
You could stick Infante at 2B- his bat is good for 2B. Matt Young at 2B is another possibility, if he can do the OBP to hit leadoff (.380 at AAA)
Then stick Prado in LF or maybe CF, and go get someone for the other spot.
Broccoman - October 15, 2010
I don't see the Cardinals trading Rasmus...
…unless they can get some impact MLB-ready talent in return. The Cardinals have a good rotation, as well as a decent pen. Offense was their problem this year and seeing as how there isn’t much on the market to improve it, prying Rasmus away is going to cost a ton.
Undocorkscrew - October 15, 2010
Minor or Beachy with a mid-level pitcher.
Done and done.
king of games - October 15, 2010
or even JJ for that matter.
king of games - October 15, 2010
For what it's worth....
Pine Tar and Pocket Protectors said it would probably take this to get Rasmus:
To the Yankees for: Brett Gardner, Manny Banuelos
To the Braves for: Craig Kimbrel, Arodys Vizcaino, Omar Infante (one year until free agency)
To the Blue Jays for: Shaun Marcum, Zach Stewart
To the Marlins for: Mike Stanton straight up
I’d go for that.
Undocorkscrew - October 15, 2010
Yup, works for me.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Who put that up?
I would go for that in a heartbeat. Young pitching prospect in A ball and injured, a utility IFer, and a “closer”. No brainer to me.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
But I don't think the Cards
would actually go for that.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
The thing is, the Cardinals don't really have another option for CF.....
…and they’ll have holes at SS and 2B. Creating another hole wouldn’t make since, and I don’t see the Cardinals going for a return like that. Infante could fill the void at 2B, but I still don’t see many GM’s seeing him as ‘starter material’
Undocorkscrew - October 15, 2010
sense*
Undocorkscrew - October 15, 2010
Have you seen what the Cards are willing to throw out there?
king of games - October 15, 2010
Yep...
…but trading away a cheap budding superstar center fielder with no internal options to replace him would cost much more than that. Infante would be an upgrade, but he wouldn’t be enough of an upgrade in my opinion.
Undocorkscrew - October 15, 2010
Throw in McClouth and one of the Cash brothers.
king of games - October 15, 2010
still not enough
and worse because of McLouth’s contract.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
Cash makes up for that.
king of games - October 15, 2010
I don’t think it’s time yet to give up on Cash.
carpengui - October 15, 2010
Not sure about trading CK...
but if we could replace him with an equivalent prospect, I’m good with that.
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
or if we can convince Wags to come out of retirement
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
Venters would close. We could even try to bring Farnsey back at a cheaper rate.
king of games - October 15, 2010
or swing a trade for Heath Bell.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Why
I know he is a really nice bullpen arm, but i’m not not sweating over losing a BP arm for a player like Rasmus.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
True...
and I guess that would leave lots of salary to sign an experienced BP arm. And, we’d still be able to trade JJ if we wanted.
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
Jurrjens+Infante for Rasmus I’d do.
Broccoman - October 15, 2010
If that's the case...
…then what do the Marlins want for Mike Stanton? I think I’d rather have him!
carpengui - October 15, 2010
They would rather trade Uggla
because he is getting expensive and Loria has revenue sharing money to stash away.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
I don't doubt that at all.
Frankly, I’d also doubt that analysis above suggesting they might go for Rasmus for Stanton straight up. No way — for exactly the reason$ we know.
carpengui - October 15, 2010
Marlins's odds of trading Stanton are about...
…the same as ours of trading Heyward. Not going to happen.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
I’d give up Venters but not Kimbrel.
Broccoman - October 15, 2010
....Ted?
(sniffle)
Chief Noc-A-Homa - October 15, 2010
Is it me or does that look like Russ Ortiz standing by Melky?
Undocorkscrew - October 15, 2010
Who the heck is that tho? A weird shot of Troy?
Chief Noc-A-Homa - October 15, 2010
I
was trying to figure that one out too… Troy’s the only one I could come up with… It’s either Troy or Teixeira’s evil twim come back to swallow Melky whole (kinda looks like Teixeira)
HansonManCrush - October 15, 2010
Is Medlen untradeable at this point?
A team like the Indians, Royals, or Orioles who are a few years away from competing anyway might take him.
king of games - October 15, 2010
We'd be selling terribly low...
Teams would take him, sure. The return would be pretty low though…
Undocorkscrew - October 15, 2010
a healthy Meds is going to be a shot in the arm next summer
Chief Noc-A-Homa - October 15, 2010
Meds
is injured… and I personally think there’s arms that FW is more willing to give up before Meds
HansonManCrush - October 15, 2010
Meds is proven
to be successful at the ML level… there’s other arms who are just prospects… I personnal would hate to see us unload Meds
HansonManCrush - October 15, 2010
That’s also why he still has value even though he’s injured.
king of games - October 15, 2010
I don't think you can trade an injured player, though.
Tarkus - October 15, 2010
It can be done (I think with approvals from the commish office), but I like Meds. I wanna keep him.
carpengui - October 15, 2010
GREAT LINK ON RASMUS' TRADE VALUE:
http://pinetarandpocketprotectors.wordpress.com/2010/10/09/colby-rasmus-trade-value/
their hypothetical trade is: kimbrel, vizcaino, and infante for rasmus…
in a word: no.
lingsched - October 15, 2010
already cited above :)
carpengui - October 15, 2010
sigh
my bad guys. i should read before i post
lingsched - October 15, 2010
and in two words: HELL YES!
king of games - October 15, 2010
why?
i’m not sure why everyone is so gung ho about this hypothetical trade… there’s no guarantee hinske re-signs, then we lose our contingency plan for chipper (don’t need to explain his injury history) and prado. then we have venters closing, which i don’t mind… but realize that he threw more innings than he ever has last year, and i’m not saying that an injury is inevitable but you at least have to keep it in mind when you look at what happened to moylan and medlen (among numerous other pitchers who experienced bigger workloads). vizcaino is a fine piece to deal, but dealing CK and infante KILLS our depth. in light of all the injuries we had this season i’m not quite sure why everyone is willing to kill our depth for one outfielder (albeit a good one).
lingsched - October 15, 2010
You can ALWAYS replace bullpen arms and utility players. You can’t always find GG caliber CFers with pop.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Exactly
We definitely agree here. Between the Braves farm and FA, there are plenty of options for the BP spot, and Infante is just a utility IFer. There are plenty of guys that could become the contingency plan for Chipper, Prado being number 1 on the list even with Infante in the fold.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
i was anticipating that
you can replace them… but not with the quality that we had. we’re already going to be losing wagner and (presumably) saito… kick in CK and a very strong bullpen becomes a middle-of-the-pack-to-bad one. look at wagner and saito’s FIP… we’re not going to be able to replace that without paying out some bank. kimbrel and venters are the only ones that could come close. if god forbid something happens to venters (and you have to at least consider the possibility) then our bullpen immediately becomes trash.
lingsched - October 15, 2010
Yep
Which is why I keep looking at those proposed names and thinking “Can we maybe come up with a name other than Kimbrel??”
carpengui - October 15, 2010
If Dunn could get his control in order...
….he’s got closer stuff.
Undocorkscrew - October 15, 2010
Venters already has closer stuff.
Kimbrel is a luxury, not a necessity.
Tarkus - October 15, 2010
Look, we have some change to spend...
…the problem is that we don’t have free agent outfielders to spend it on. We can sign a solid utility guy, maybe a step down from Infante, but not bad, a closer and a solid MR for the $10-12 we have to spend. There are no outfielders of Rasmus’s caliber that we can get for that price. Soriano, Fuentes, Gregg, etc., are all free agents and there are a ton of MR’s. Blum, Hairston, Lugo, Eckstein, etc., are all utility guys that can be had relatively cheaply. It is all about the market and what is available.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
Trade for Heath Bell and get Kelly Johnson back. Fixed.
king of games - October 15, 2010
i could have sworn this was real life
and not a video game
lingsched - October 15, 2010
No such thing as real life mate
And definitely no such thing as video games.
Undocorkscrew - October 15, 2010
They’re both available. But if that doesn’t work for you sign Willie Bloomquist or Felipe Lopez or Jerry Hairston Jr. and resign Saito, who cares?
king of games - October 15, 2010
saito is 41
and he couldn’t finish the season. to expect him to duplicate his success this year is beyond optimistic
lingsched - October 15, 2010
He’s put up those numbers pretty much his whole career, I fully expect him to duplicate this year.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Add
Craig Counsell, Iwamura, Melvin Mora, etc. Plenty of light hitting bench bats to throw in there.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
Exactly, you can find a singles hitter with no power or speed and average defense pretty much anywhere, including our farm system I would imagine.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Iwamura would be a great Infante-lite...
Plus, I think his natural position when he came to the States was 3B.
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
comma fail
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
Yeah, he played there for the Rays before Longoria booted him to 2B.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Iwamura showed up to ST in terrible shape last year. No thanks.
Pavy848 - October 15, 2010
Per MLBTR
FA relievers. Note there are a ton of them that the Braves could add and could make the loss of Kimbrel much more palatable. Why? Because good relievers aren’t that hard to find.
Closers
Octavio Dotel (37) – $4.5MM mutual option with a $500K buyout – Type B
Frank Francisco (31)
Type A’12 – Type BBrian Fuentes (35) – Type B
Kevin Gregg (33) – $4.5MM club option for ’11, $8.75MM for ’11
Trevor Hoffman (43) – mutual option worth $7-8.5MM; buyout at $500K-1MM – Type B
Chad Qualls (32) – Type B
Jon Rauch (32)
Mariano Rivera (41) – Type A
Rafael Soriano (31) – Type A
Kerry Wood (34) – $11MM club option – Type B
Right-handed relievers
Grant Balfour (33) – Type A
Miguel Batista (40)
Joaquin Benoit (33) – Type B
Jose Contreras (39)
Jesse Crain (29) – Type B
Juan Cruz (30) – $4MM club option with a $500K buyout
Elmer Dessens (40)
Brendan Donnelly (39)
Chad Durbin (33) – Type B
Kelvim Escobar (34)
Kyle Farnsworth (35) – $5.25MM club option with a $500K buyout
Jason Frasor (33) – Type A
Chad Gaudin (28)
Enrique Gonzalez (28)
Matt Guerrier (32) – Type A
Aaron Heilman (32) – Type B
Bob Howry (37) – $3MM club option with a $250K buyout
Mike Lincoln (36)
Mike MacDougal (34)
Justin Miller (33)
Guillermo Mota (37)
Fernando Nieve (28)
Micah Owings (28)
Chan Ho Park (38)
J.J. Putz (34) – Type B
Jon Rauch (32) – Type B
David Riske (34)
Takashi Saito (41) – Type A
Chris Sampson (33)
Scot Shields (35)
Jeff Suppan (36)
Koji Uehara (36) – Type B
Tyler Walker (35)
Jeff Weaver (34)
Dan Wheeler (33) – $4MM club option with a $1MM buyout – Type A
Jamey Wright (36)
Left-handed relievers
Joe Beimel (34)
Bruce Chen (34)
Randy Choate (35) – Type B
Scott Downs (35) – Type A
Pedro Feliciano (34) – Type B
Mark Hendrickson (37) – $1.2MM club option with a $200K buyout
Ron Mahay (40)
Will Ohman (32)
Dennys Reyes (34)
Arthur Rhodes (41) – Type A
J.C. Romero (35) – $4.5MM club option with a $250K buyout
Bobby Seay (33)
Scott Schoeneweis (37)
Hisanori Takahashi (36)
Matt Thornton (34) – $3MM club option with a $250K buyout – Type A
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
I like the "closer" designation...
Except for Mariano and Soriano, I think I’d rather have the RH and LH relievers over those “closers”.
JJ Putz is a guy I think we should add no matter what.
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
I was thinking Putz too, I always kinda liked him.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Same here. And his suckiness/injury in NY were inevitable. Seattle totally mis-handled him the two years before and he’s not a New York-type of guy. I’d love him in Atlanta.
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
I don't think so
too much…
HansonManCrush - October 15, 2010
Why wouldn't the Braves do that
The Cards wouldn’t, but if Frank Wren said no to that, I would personally slap him.
Andy Braves Fan - October 15, 2010
In two words, HOLY HELL YEAH...
Kimbrel is a great talent, but his control issues give pause, and we can find a closer easier than finding a potential star CF (see Kerry Wood, JJ Putz, and several other reasonable options on the FA market, plus Venters and Saito internally, and shifting a Randall Delgado, Kris Medlen, JJ Hoover or other young starter to close).
Vizcaino has his elbow issues, and is a ways away from being a major leaguer.
Infante is good, but not near the value of Rasmus.
That deal wouldn’t take a heartbeat for Wren to say yes to imo.
Mr. Sanchez - October 15, 2010
Just for the sake of pretend GMing....
…would you take Rasmus straight up for Teheran?
Undocorkscrew - October 15, 2010
no.
lingsched - October 15, 2010
Nope, but I had to think about it for a second.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Same here...but nope...
If Rasmus was Heyward, then maybe…but he’s not
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
Or Braun, Hamilton, or CarGo.
king of games - October 15, 2010
No...
I don’t trust Rasmus to keep improving on his numbers. His contact issues worry me.
Mr. Sanchez - October 15, 2010
I'll be the voice of dissent here and say...
…yes, I would trade Teheran straight up for Rasmus. We have plenty of pitching and while Teheran could easily be a star, so could Rasmus—and at a position we are much weaker.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
This is true, but Teheran could also possibly get us someone better than Rasmus.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Hey, that works with me, too.
I am not sure who, but hell, I got no problem with better. Hell, I’d be happier with just as good and right-handed.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
No.
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
Yes. ;)
cavebird - October 15, 2010
I really can’t see us trading Teheran. To see what he’s done at such a young age against high-A and AA…I’d only trade him in a deal to bring us Longoria. I know we’re deep in pitching and injuries happen at a much higher rate to pitchers, but I just couldn’t live with us trading arguably the best pitcher in the minor leagues at the age of 19.
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
Or Braun, Hamilton, CarGo, or maybe Votto.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Braun: Probably.
Hamilton: No. It’s sad to say, but he’s not going to hold up after everything he did to his body.
CarGo: We’ll see. If he continues to have those ridiculous splits at home and on the road in 2011, I don’t think he’d be worth it.
Votto: Didn’t really consider 1st baseman, but yeah he’d be worth it.
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
We could then trade Freeman for an OFer, though there’s probably no way Cinci parts with him.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Here is how I look at Teheran for Rasmus...
…both are great prospects; Teheran one of the best pitchers in the minors (if not the best) and Rasmus is 24 years old, just finished his second season, and already had the highest OPS of any centerfielder in baseball this year. He was a highly touted prospect a couple of years back, too, so it is not like he came out of nowhere. Yes, Teheran could end up being one of the best pitchers in baseball, but Rasmus could end up being one of the best hitters. Thus, on a talent basis, I consider them relatively even.
In making the trade, the Braves would be giving up two free years (Rasmus has used them already, Teheran hasn’t) in return for: (1) positional need [we need OF’s more than SP’s] (2) the safety of a hitter who has already performed well in the majors over the risk of a pitcher who has not. For those two reasons, I would take the deal.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
That's certainly a fair argument
I just don’t think we should trade JT for anyone other than a bonafide superstar. That’s just me though.
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
I agree.
Braun, Votto, Longoria, Pedroia, Cano on the short list. Would have said Hanley, but obviously that’s not gonna work now.
king of games - October 15, 2010
not just you
i think most talent evaluators feel the same way
lingsched - October 15, 2010
Maybe I am just higher than you on Rasmus...
… he is young, still cost-controlled, and was pretty much the best centerfielder in baseball last year. Given that he is likely to improve, I think he is pretty much going to be a superstar. At least I think he has as good a chance of being one (and probably better due to the injury thing with pitchers) as Teheran.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
Hell, I would almost trade Hanson for Rasmus.
Not quite, but close. But I consider them similar; both are young and have done great in the majors but not quite MVP/Cy Young level. The reason I wouldn’t is that Hanson, by not coming up until June 2009, has an extra free season. If they were on the same year salary wise I would consider them equal and do the trade for positional reasons.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
In a word: YES.
Kimbrel could be a nice closer, but with the money we’re saving from Wags and Saito, we could always go sign a top-closer on the FA market or via trade.
Vizzy could be good in a few years, but with Hanson, Teheran, Jurrjens, Delgado, Minor, Beachy and our other guys in the minors, do we really need him? If he brings us a talent like Rasmus, it’s worth it.
Infante…I love me some Imhotep, but he’s a glorified super-utility player. And while he’s probably the best in the game, he’s still a journeyman bench player.
I’d do it. It would hurt to lose Kimbrel, but it’s worth it for Rasmus.
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
How is Matt Young's defense?
I know he’s not exactly a youngster anymore, but he’s a guy who can get on base at a good clip, has speed(37 SB last year in AAA) and doesn’t K much at all. If his defense is good, why hasn’t he been given a shot yet?
Undocorkscrew - October 15, 2010
I hate to be Donald Downer...
but I really don’t think we’re going to see anything other than a replacement-level guy or two in LF.
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
Matt Young...
You seem to know more than most of us, why do you think Matt Young hasn’t been given a shot yet and do you see him getting that shot in 2010 if the Braves fail to find a starting center fielder?
Undocorkscrew - October 15, 2010
2011*
Undocorkscrew - October 15, 2010
I’m guessing there’s a reason the Braves haven’t given him a chance yet. I’m not sure why, but the scouts must know something.
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
At least give us a couple months of offseason speculation before you stab us in the heart.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Wren’s comments from yesterday really bummed me out. “Get creative” are two horrible words.
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
Yes, but he also has a knack for saying the exact opposite of what he means.
king of games - October 15, 2010
We can only hope. Similar to what Gondeee said, this is totally on the front office if we can’t get something done.
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
How many of our young SPs can make our rotation anyway? You always have to have at least two veterans (Hudson/Lowe types) for the playoffs. Hanson, JJ, Meds, Beachy, JT, Delgado, Viscaino, Hoover. Ssome of these guys are gonna have to be traded eventually.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Forgot Minor too.
king of games - October 15, 2010
and the Braves are notorious for always finding diamonds in the rough with pitchers too. All of our pitchers should be available besides Hanson and JT.
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
Given our pitching depth, all of our pitchers should be available...
…if we got the proper return for them. The only except is Huddy; he’s 10/5, and going nowhere.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
Well…yes.
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
what about Josh Hamilton in cf, jason werth in Lf, and Jason Heyward in Rf now that’s an Outfield.
grneyedbndt44 - October 15, 2010
Let's pretend...
We actually get a quality CF (don’t care which, Rasmus/Kemp/Gutierrez).
With the production boost from that spot, can the team afford to take on a reclamation project for LF??
Alex Gordon’s value has to be at an all-time low, but I honestly believe he can hack it with a change of scenery. Under team control for two years with what should be extremely kind arbitration salaries. Can double as a 3B if/when Chipper’s out.
With Moustakas a virtual lock for 3B next year and Butler/Kila manning the 1B/DH spots with Eric Hosmer coming up in a year or so, they have a real logjam at the corner IF/DH positions. One of those three will likely end up in the OF.
Best case scenario: cheap trade, successful comeback to his 1st round draft pick potential
Worst case scenario: waste of a middling prospect, very cheap 2010 McLouthian numbers, non-tender candidate.
-C
cthabeerman - October 15, 2010
I've thought about Gordon too.
but as you said, we’d have to get a solid guy for CF first.
But I have a problem with your statement about your possible center fielders. If we get Matt Kemp, he should play LF. He’s a disaster in CF. I know beggars can’t be choosers, but still.
Also, what is with the love affair with Gutierrez? He’s a solid defender, but his offensive numbers are horrible. He strikes out WAY too much for the little power he has and the best OPS he’s posted in a full season is .764. If he’s our outfield bat, we’re in trouble.
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
Just tossed him out there...
I haven’t really paid much attention to him, other than hearing about how great he’d be. You’re right, his 2010 numbers are garbage, and he seems to have a wild inconsistent streak in him…don’t know what you’ll get from one year to the next.
-C
cthabeerman - October 15, 2010
Part of Gutierrez's problem...
…is being right-handed in Seattle, which is death to right-handed hitters with power (see Beltre, Adrian). The other part is that he is only a decent not really good hitter. He’s still a huge upgade.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
But for his price tag, I doubt he’s worth it.
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
Probably not...
…given how much they would want.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
If we’re dealing with Seattle, let’s send them KK for either salary relief or Figgins if Chipper isn’t coming back. I’d much rather go for Rasmus or Kemp.
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
McLouth is the reclamation project in left field if that's the case.
pancanbra - October 16, 2010
With the production boost from that spot, can the team afford to take on a reclamation project for LF??
Absolutely. After all, we made the playoffs this year with VERY little production from both the LF and CF positions.
Undocorkscrew - October 15, 2010
What if we could get Greinke and DeJesus
For a package centered around JT and another of our top prospects?
king of games - October 15, 2010
dejesus?
and his career ops+ of 108. do not want.
lingsched - October 15, 2010
Be ready to be disappointed.
DeJesus is probably the best OF we can realistically hope to get this offseason. 108 OPS+ is light-years ahead of what we got out of CF and LF this year. DeJesus is a solid, not spectacular player. That’s an upgrade. A significant upgrade.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
You have to think DeJesus would do statistically better with some protection. There is pretty much nothing there in KC for him.
king of games - October 15, 2010
He hit in front of Butler in KC...
…didn’t he? Butler can rake. Besides, statistical studies have pretty much shown that protection has little effect on results.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
Why bother with Greinke...
His addition makes our trade package incredibly more expensive, for a position we have little to no need for.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have him, and our rotation would be sick w/ Jurrjens or Lowe as the fifth starter. But it’s nowhere near a match with our current needs. If we’re going to be giving up our best prospects (which we’d have to do to get Greinke), I’d like to use them to improve our team as dramatically as possible. Greinke doesn’t fill a need on this roster, so we’d be wasting prospects (and ones that could likely fill that 5th starter spot admirably).
-C
cthabeerman - October 15, 2010
Question...
Although Id rather use him as bait in a trade to eventually replace Chipper, is Jurrens too valuable to trade for a OF/LF/CF?
Even with Medlen down, a rotation featuring Hanson, Hudson, Lowe, Minor, and Beachy doesnt seem to shabby. Minor, in all likelyhood, “could” be as valuable as Jurrens, and Beachy is a perfectly serviceable 5th starter. Obviously, Minor and Jurrens together in the rotation looks great, but for a bat Id sacrifice some of my sanity and fingernails sending Beachy out there.
aRC - October 15, 2010
Personally
I’d like to let him get healthy and pitch a little bit to improve his value more, but I’m not against trading JJ if the other team demands a proven SP. However, like I said, I think he fetches more if we let he has a healthy season next year.
bradleyjah - October 15, 2010
That might be the case when trading a veteran pitcher, but JJ has enough service time to know what you have in him regardless of what he did this past year, but still has multiple arbi years left.
king of games - October 15, 2010
I’ve been saying this since the trade deadline. He’s a Boras client, so we’re not going to sign him long term. Trade him while his value is optimized with arbitration years left.
king of games - October 15, 2010
To play devils advocate...
Even if he is a Boras client, Jurrens would have to make a nice sized leap (the type that goes over buildings in a single bound) to command any type of money that would raid the Braves’ pockets to hurt them in three years. And if he does make that leap, I doubt the Braves would be opposed to extending him an offer with Lowe and most likely Chipper being off the books.
The real question is, do the Braves offer up a perfectly capable mid (on most teams) to front end (on some teams) starter, or shit load on minor league talent for a bat that can actually make a difference over the next 3-5 years? Im all for the starter the Braves can replace.
aRC - October 15, 2010
Why is no one mentioning Matt Young?
I’d love to see him get a chance.
kbertling353 - October 15, 2010
There are alot of options, Matt Young just seems to be on the bottom of the totem pole or, for lack of a better term, the “worst” case scenario.
aRC - October 15, 2010
Trade Lowe and sign Crawford
Braves24 - October 15, 2010 via mobile
A few options I would like to explore
Nick Markakis
Shin-Soo-Choo
David DeJesus
I doubt we get Rasmus without giving up Prado. Maybe the SS we got from the Blue Jays will have an awesome AFL and we can use him as trade bait.
drumzalicious - October 15, 2010
There is 0% chance Cleveland trades Choo, he led them in all five main offensive categories last year. I don’t think we’ll want to part with Lipka, he could be our starting SS in 2 years.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Pastornicki, not Lipka.
king of games - October 15, 2010
I think we would part with Pastornicki
simply because we have Salcedo and Lipka in the minors at SS who could possibly be ready to go in 2012. That would mean we’d have to have big years from them next year but its still a possibility but only if the Braves are getting a quality player in return could I see them trading him and Rasmus would be a quality player
drumzalicious - October 15, 2010
It’s probably too soon to part with Pastornicki. I don’t think Salcedo will be anywhere near ready by 2012, Lipka could be, but we’d probably want to see further development before trading Pastornicki.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Markakis and Choo...
…would cost too much—Choo in players, Markakis in players and money. DeJesus is a logical target. He’s good, not great, but would be a solid upgrade. I wish he were right-handed, however.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
Markakis would be worth it
In my opinion. And he would probably be a bit cheaper than Rasmus on the player side.
drumzalicious - October 15, 2010
He should be way cheaper than Rasmus...
…in players. He doesn’t play center, he isn’t any better than Rasmus, and he already has a big contract; he doesn’t have cheap years left like Rasmus does. But the Orioles are building around him and need hitting. They would probably charge almost as much in players as Rasmus would cost. That would make him a bad deal; he isn’t worth that much more than his contract for us to give up a bunch of players to get him.
cavebird - October 17, 2010
How come nobody has mentioned any of the Orioles OFers? It’s not like they are within striking distance of the other 4 teams in their division.
justincredubil02 - October 15, 2010
Scott is mentioned above...
…Markakis and Jones aren’t going anywhere. (And Markakis has too much salary for what it would take in players to get him). The rest of the O’s OF’s are crappy.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
I just don't want us to trade...
Jurrjens, Freeman, Teheran, Salcedo, Lipka or Delgado. I would be content if we trade any other prospects. I would really like for us to make a deal based around KK and another prospect or two for Figgins and possibly Brandon League too. Figgins would most defiantly be an upgrade over McLouth. Next get an experience back of the bullpen guy to help Venters and Kimbrel out, preferably J.J. Putz . Obtain a big bat like Kemp, Rasmus, Choo, Crawford, Werth or Dunn to help solidify our offense. Re-signing Hinske would be smart and getting a guy like Ty Wiggington to help get Chipper some days off would be a good move as well.
deewill23 - October 15, 2010
That's almost reasonable, except it isn't.
For starters, I doubt we get Figgins for a package based on KK—-KK has no real value; he’s not a negative in a trade like McLouth, but he’s not a positive. But let’s say we put in the right prospects and Seattle has soured on Figgins and they do that. That uses up about $3 million of the salary we have to spend this offeseaon and eats $9 for 2012 and 2013. We could sign Putz, but that’s another $2-3 million. Given that you won’t trade any of the best prospects and we don’t have the money for a free agent good OF, where are you going to get the big bat from? Kemp, Rasmus, and Choo would not be available for what you are leaving on the table to trade, and Crawford, Werth and Dunn are not affordable for us. Dunn might be, but he is not an OF (period, he just cannot play the position), so if you won’t trade Freeman, we have two guys who should be playing every day at the same position.
One thing you are safe on: Lipka will not be traded; MLB rules prohibit a player being traded within a year of being drafted.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
I see what your saying
So what do you think we should do then?
deewill23 - October 15, 2010
Trade some of those guys that you said you don’t want to trade.
JJ would be my top candidate.
justincredubil02 - October 15, 2010
We’d be selling at an all-time low on a young, talented player (sound familiar?). Can you imagine his value now compared to last off-season?
Scott Coleman - October 15, 2010
We would not be selling him at an all-time low. I believe his all-time low was when he was traded for Rentaria.
justincredubil02 - October 15, 2010
Rentz was coming off a killer season though.
king of games - October 15, 2010
A career season as a 30-something…sound familiar?
justincredubil02 - October 15, 2010
You’re rather inconsistent in your arguments.
Scott Coleman - October 16, 2010
Go on…
justincredubil02 - October 16, 2010
I would say JJ is available...
…but not if we are getting cents on the dollar, which we likely would, so I wouldn’t probably trade him. But Delgado should certainly be available. And I would make Teheran available if the other team were paying through the nose with what we need, like Rasmus. But that debate is elsewhere in this thread.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
i have some questions
Who was the last Braves of the following fielder position hit at least 20 HR in a season and what was the year he did that?
1. LF
2. CF
3. RF
4. Outfielder
I guess they were:
1. Chipper Jones 2003
2. Andruw Jones 2007
3. Jeff Francoeur 2006
4. Andruw Jones 2007
??
Someone can answer my question?
joshant - October 15, 2010
Thinkin outside the box here.
How about Jose Reyes? We could trade Gonzales and maybe Minor and KK?
king of games - October 15, 2010
Minaya isn’t there anymore. :(
I don’t think they would take Gonzalez – although I certianly would love for his .295 OBP to be on their team!
justincredubil02 - October 15, 2010
Gonzalez is just a short term answer at SS for them.
They really need pitching, and that we have. Might have to throw in another guy like Diamond as well, but I would think the Mets would have to at least think about it.
king of games - October 15, 2010
Reyes is going nowhere...
…the Mets make mistakes by spending money where they shouldn’t, not by not spending money where they should.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
I like the idea of Omar Infante being the centerpiece in a Rasmus deal.
Infante + Vizcaino + Hicks + Proctor = Colby Rasmus
Jurrjens + Beachy + McLouth + Lipka = Jacoby Ellsbury
Kawakami + O’Flaherty = Brandon Wood
Gonzalez + Salcedo + Diamond = JJ Hardy
Shift Matt Diaz to 1B/LF
re-sign Eric Hinske 1/2.5 plus vesting option
sign Javier Vazquez 1/4 plus club option
sign Willie Harris 1/1
Ta-da!
Wren_and_Stimpy - October 15, 2010
Can’t trade Lipka first year.
king of games - October 15, 2010
I think I read you can
But he has to be a player to be named later.
traderchris - October 15, 2010 via mobile
But you have to finish a PTBNL trade within 6 months. So he couldn’t be traded until sometime in January.
cbwilk - October 16, 2010
Hardy will not cost that much.
justincredubil02 - October 15, 2010
I think you’re confusing Jacoby Ellsbury for someone else. Someone much better than the guy that plays for Boston.
J-Turn14 - October 15, 2010
Seriously...
…he is giving more for Ellsbury than Rasmus. That’s just silly. Cards would never take the Rasmus offer, it is insulting; the Ellsbury offer seems a bit much—-and even then, why would the Red Sox take it? They have 5-6 starters already (Lester, Bucholz, Dice-K, Lackey, Beckett, Wakefield) and are short OF like us.
And wow, why give that for Hardy—-he really isn’t any better than Gonzo. He can field, but his bat never came along.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
Don't trade one of the starting 4
The last 2 years have proven that you cannot have enough quality starting pitching. I urge Frank Wren not to trade any of the top 4 starting pitchers, unless it gets someone like Adam Dunn, or better. And, I’m not sure any of those caliber outfielders are available via trade.
Hudson faded a bit down the stretch, because he hadn’t thrown a lot of innings in the past few years. He will be better conditioned next year. Jurrjens only had about a month where he wasn’t injured in some way. We know what he can do over a full, healthy season. Other than 6 or 7 starts, Hanson proved to be an ace. And, Derek Lowe was worth the money once he talked to Roger McDowell, and remembered that he could throw his slider for strikes.
As far as the potential they have shown, and the results that they each have gotten when healthy…this could be the best starting 4 in all of baseball. It is not worth a mid-level replacement player to trade any of them. IMHO
Kulani23 - October 15, 2010
Heightening, and clarification
Actually, what I meant to say was:
It is not worth anything other than an absolute offensive monster in the outfield to trade any of the starting 4.
Kulani23 - October 15, 2010
choose two...
if the the braves can find a taker for kawakami AND if they dont trade away any of their pen, AND use the strength from AAA to fill out their remaining bench (matt young and barbaro), the braves can probably choose 2 of the following players either via trade or free agency, and still stay in budget:
cf
1. cody ross
2. bj upton
3. matt kemp
lf
1. josh willingham
2. pat burrell
3. magglio
ryan c - October 15, 2010
But...
….the good ones there, Upton and Kemp will cost a ton in players. What are you willing to give for them? They won’t come cheap. Ross and Burrell, sure we could do that. But if we are going to Burrell, why not Andruw? Andruw is a better fielder, will be cheaper, and is about the same with the bat. And hell, he’d jump at the chance to come home, he still lives here.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
ideally....
kemp and jurrjens could be very close to an even swap because jj has an extra year of team control. kemp for jurrjens would be an upcharge of about 3 million.
josh willingham has one last year or arbitration and the nats will probably trade him before they go through that process with him. beachy alone could net willingham. the upcharge would be about 6 million.
wren has come out and said that he’ll be very leary of trading pitching, so it’s probably pretty obvious that both trades together wont happen. so, if you trade for kemp, sign magglio. if you trade for willingham, sign cody ross. either way, the financial impact will be enough for the braves to handle.
i like the idea of rasmus, but i think that is a serious pipedream, even one that i’ve went down a few times.
another player that i’d love to see in a braves uniform would be jj hardy. the kid has serious glove skills and could be had for very cheap. hardy is a rebound candidate coming into his prime years. alex gonzalez had a career year and his smokescreened season needs to be dealt with a quickness. this would be a stellar 2011 lineup:
kemp
prado
heyward
chipper
bmac
magglio
freeman
hardy
ryan c - October 16, 2010
Hmm Nice Post Ryan C
Finally the above original blog posting we are responding to is nice, someone finally agrees with me after I took so much B.S. in an earlier posting on this very issue regarding a power bat.
I like the idea of getting BJ Upton for sure but not crazy about Magglio or Burrell – both are over the hill yes Burrell never been crazy about him and he is nothing but a lower ball fastball hitter and when he is off he hits 0-100 and looks completely lost as a player. Upton is a good choice, but unlikely to happen. I would look for C. Ross to be added to the Braves this offseason along with J. Cantu. Braves have wanted Ross for a long time and he played under Gonzo in FLA as did Cantu. Ross has more pop then Diaz and comes up big when the game is on the line. Cantu is really a needed signing by ATL, he is so skilled,verstitale type guy we need hince he can play 3b/1B and back up / give insurance to Chipper not returning fully for knee injury or if young Freeman struggles early on. Willingham is another guy Braves wanted for a long time as well so I would look for us to pursue the guys below :
Realistic signings:
Ross 2 yr deal ; Willingham 2yr deal. Cantu 1 yr deal
Hopeful trades / signings:
Acquire Upton from Rays ; sign Willingham or Ross, sign Cantu
I would luv to have Upton but Tampa would want a stud pitching prospect named Teheran for him and that is just not gonna happen. I would offer them KK, JJ, and either Schafer or Mclouth for him however and pay a good portion of both KK and Nate’s contracts plus we have a good relationship when trading with Tampa so who knows.
Line up: Ross / Willingham
Prado
Ross
Chipper
McCann
Willingham
Heyward
Gonzo
Freeman
Pitcher
Line up : Upton added w /Willingham
Upton
Prado
Chipper
McCann
Willingham
Heyward
Gonzo
Freeman
Pitcher
Bench: Infante, Conrad, Cantu, D. Ross, M. Young, Hinske
So which lineup looks better more than likely we get Ross, Willingham, Cantu in the offseason Upton would just cost us to much as far as young pitching prospects. Go Braves.
Holty_Panthers_Fan - October 15, 2010
Well more than likely forget about Crawford and Werth
No way we are in on Werth or Crawford this offseason after seeing an article on MLBTraderumors.com today via J. Schultz of the AJC, Wren is not ruling them out but says that Werth and Crawford will likely be expensive hince them coming to ATL isn’t gonna happen. Wren also say he prefers not to trade his pitching depth away but again the article hints that KK and D. Lowe are the most likely candidates to be traded. I would prefer to trade KK and keep D.Lowe he was lights out and is due for one last big season in 2011, he rediscovered his slider and he was 5-0 in Sept and a big reason ATL with lack of offense made the post season, plus he pitched great in our one post season series. Schutlz wonders if the Braves would deal JJ who in my opinon would probably get the most attention should they decide to shop him plus he is under team control for at-least three more seasons.
So look for middle market type talent: Ross, Willingham, No Freaking C. Hart plz, Cantu etc…
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/10/braves-rumors-pitching-gonzalez-free-agents.html
Holty_Panthers_Fan - October 15, 2010
Willingham, however...
…is not a free agent. He is still under the Nats control for another year.
cavebird - October 17, 2010
You heard it here first!
Cory hart will be a brave next year! ewwwww
traderchris - October 15, 2010 via mobile
Sad, but true.
cavebird - October 15, 2010
No yikes
No C. Hart man we can all look so cool wearing are shades in the 8th inning of a pitch black night while playing in the LF lights in Turner Field. I still cannot believe the braves want Hart rather have Willingham or Ross if not both and but surely no C. Hart and we better not give up JJ for Corey Hart that would make me scream !
Holty_Panthers_Fan - October 15, 2010
Why Hart? Didn't he sign a new contract to stay in MiL?
FitzFan - October 15, 2010
Just thinking the same thing.
I hope we don’t waste time trading with the Brew Crew they have nothing I would want at this point.
Holty_Panthers_Fan - October 15, 2010
Agreed. Braun is the only thing, but he's not going anywhere for years.
I honestly think Wren will just do more of the same. Platoon + vet off the crap heap. :(
FitzFan - October 15, 2010
Yeah
I wouldn’t say vet’s off crap heap b/c that was this year and we have enough scrubbing bubbles to get them clean enough to get into the post season before the rust finished off our freshly cleaned vet crap heap guys.
Braves just don’t have the cash to pay a Crawford/Werth period I mean it sucks but it is true. Unless Chipper, and D. Lowe are gone and get rid of bad contracts like Mclouth’s and KK then we could perhaps make a run at one of them. Until that time it is going to me more Middle of the road talent here in ATL.
Go Braves. Interesting if we got Ross, Willingham, Cantu all three were once Marlins in FLA where Freddie last managed. LOL.
Holty_Panthers_Fan - October 16, 2010
The Braves are too Cheap
C’mon look at the last few years, the Braves are managed by a corporation that could care less about getting the best. They are only interested in a tax deduction. Bobby Cox was their best shot at keeping the home crowd paying, but was a sure bet to not make it. He is a wife beater and I have had no respect for the man. Call it experience with a similiar low life who used to be married to my daughter. Once a wife beater, always a wife beater. yeah go ahead, delete this. I bought season tix this year, I will never do that again. Kiss my ass if you don’t like it.
jimmontg - October 16, 2010
Call it my Ranger Background
jimmontg - October 16, 2010
Scott Coleman - October 16, 2010
Something really grinds his gears.
The Keith Lockhart Era - October 16, 2010
I don't like it at all.
But i’d rather not kiss your hindquarters. What a conundrum.
J-Turn14 - October 16, 2010
There's no way we're getting a starting OF in FA
Frankly, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a starting OF of Diaz, McLouth, and Heyward. However, if we do decide to get a big right handed bat to play left or center, it would come through a trade, and likely one that revolved around Jair Jurrjens and a young arm. There’s no way the Braves are adding payroll this year. I actually think of the 10-12 we supposedly have to spend, we’ll probably only spend 5 of it to sign some filler bench guys or bullpen arms.
Another thing is, nobody here is projecting Infante to be in the starting lineup. I thought he was great for us as a starter and he was one of only two guys who hit the ball in the postseason. I know he’s great to have off the bench and many view him as a super utility guy, but I can tell you many teams who’d love to have his bat in their lineup.
If it were up to me, I’d move AGon in a trade and put Infante in at SS. He and Prado would be a great 1-2 combination at the top of the lineup, and moving Heyward down in the lineup would put him in more RBI situations and force him to be less patient at the plate. And if we can’t get a legitimate bat in the outfield, why not just put Infante in at LF. He, Prado, Gonzo, and Chipper would give us 4 right handed bats against a lefty.
pancanbra - October 16, 2010
Jayson Werth
sure would look good out in LF, Colby Rasmus is also a good choice for a cheaper price than Werth, but if none of these deals happen, i dont like our chances in 2011. Please, front office, if theres any time to spend money, its now, we’re one more big bat away from being legitimate WS contenders
CoxXx - October 16, 2010
The front office doesn't control how much we have to spend.
The corporate overlords do. And Wren has already said payroll will not significantly change next year. Hence, Werth is just not an option.
cavebird - October 17, 2010
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