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Talking Chop

The 2010 Atlanta Braves Team Pitching MVP And LVP

Yesterday we took a look at the Atlanta Braves team hitting MVP and LVP, and there was a lot of disagreement about naming Jason Heyward the team MVP. I figured that would happen, since Martin Prado had such a good year. Both are great choices, and hopefully both players will be cornerstones of this Braves team for years to come.

Today we'll take a look at the best and worst pitchers on the team. I think these selections will be a bit more cut and dry.

Pitching MVP
Perhaps the bullpen should have a separate award here, because both Billy Wagner and Jonny Venters deserve serious consideration as the team pitching MVP. My knock on Wagner, if I could reach to find one, is that he did blow seven saves this year. Most of those blows the Braves came back to win, but it's a stat that sticks with me, even though blowing that many saves seems to be the norm for closers. Venters was terrific, but is a setup man really the most valuable pitcher on the team? I'm sure someone could make that argument, but I won't.

I actually really strongly considered Tommy Hanson here. Yes, the 10-11 win-loss record isn't pretty, but Hanson was a victim of having the most unearned runs on the team, and some very lopsided run support. While he had ERAs of 3.05 or below in July and August he came away with only one win between those two months.

Still, Hanson wasn't as good as Tim Hudson, our 2010 Braves pitching MVP. Some may say Huddy was a recipient of a lot of luck this year, what with his ERA of 2.83 and his FIP of 4.09 -- over a run between the two, and a higher FIP than even Derek Lowe (3.89). But Hudson's game is about ground balls and letting the batters get themselves out, so his advanced rate stats don't really accurately describe what kind of pitcher he is and how much he relies on his defense behind him. As far as putting up good starts time after time, Hudson was right there with the elite pitchers in the National League. His 25 quality starts are tied for the league lead with Cy Young contenders Roy Halladay, Adam Wainwright, and Ubaldo Jiminez, as well as other top pitchers in the league.


Tim Hudson

#15 / Pitcher / Atlanta Braves

6-1

170

R

R

Jul 14, 1975



W-L G GS CG SHO SV BS IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP
2010 - Tim Hudson 17-9 35 34 1 0 0 0 228.2 189 74 72 20 74 139 2.83 1.15

The LVP after the jump...

Star-divide

Pitching LVP
This one is pretty cut and dry, and luckily there were not many candidates for this dubious honor. One could pick the chaff from the bullpen (and there wasn't much), and luckily the Braves pawned off Jesse Chavez on the Royals. Derek Lowe was saved from this award for the second year in a row by his September renaissance. Kyle Farnsworth certainly wasn't spectacular once he came back to Atlanta, but it's a testament to the (mostly) great staff that Frank Wren put together that there's really only one pitcher who stands out as the worst.

Kenshin Kawakami was just the pits in 2010. Yes, that would be only one win his 18 starts, in not even 90 innings of work. Sure he was unlucky, and he didn't get much run support, but he was already just so terrible that even with the bad luck not factored in he would have been a losing pitcher. He consistently labored through early innings, and rarely went deep into games, only once completing seven innings in a start. The Braves and Bobby Cox seemed to lose all faith him as the season wore on, and after being exiled to the bullpen, and then to the minors, he was rarely called on to pitch. His last appearance of the season was on September 9th, and that may be the last time we see him in a Braves uniform.

It's weird how the Braves just gave up on this guy. There must have been some non-public problems because during games in which he pitched, Bobby Cox was clearly perturbed more than normal when Kawakami would run into problems. It makes me think that they tried to get him to change something in his delivery, and he wouldn't do it, but that's only speculation on my part (though it certainly seems to fit).

Poll
Who is your 2010 Atlanta Braves team pitching MVP?
Tim Hudson
1090 votes
Tommy Hanson
25 votes
Billy Wagner
75 votes
Jonny Venters
138 votes

1328 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  106 comments

Comments

Agree on Huddy

I grudgingly agree on KK, but only because he is the only one who had enough of an impact to win the goat horns. I still maintain that his W-L record is a poor reflection of his pitching, and that his confidence crumbled at the end with the low run support. I do hope he ends up somewhere else (preferrably in the AL) and succeeds.

I voted for “Everyday” Jonny Venters. Ordinarily I wouldn’t pick a reliever for this kind of award since a starter pitches so many more innings, but come on! Jonny pitched every day and extremely well!

I guess it’s hard to argue against Kawakami being LVP. Resop, Chavez, and Reyes were even worse, but they combined didn’t pitch a fraction of KK’s innings or cost as much money.

Can we just retroactively give Shane Reynolds/Mark Redman/Dan Kolb a pitching LVP since we don’t quite have anyone to assign it to this year?

Pitching LVPs that everyone forgot about (not that they really did anything to damage the team long-term): Chris Resop, Jo-Jo Reyes. Together they only pitched 5.1 innings, but allowed 14 runs on 15 hits, 6 walks, and 2 homers.

what about jesse chavez....?

To be fair, he was the mop-up guy and had runs charged to him in 11 of his 29 appearances.

He was nowhere near as ghastly as any of the pitchers I mentioned, and actually showed signs of quality at points, though he did fail miserably at others.

Can I add

There is absolutely no way to justify voting for a reliever as a most valuable pitcher. Especially with starters who performed so well. There really is no way to justify that.

Sure there is:

Venters 79 games
Hudson 34 games

Hudson, 228.2 innings. Venters, 83 innings. Hudson directly affected 686 outs, while Venters directly affected 249 outs. That’s nearly 3 times as many outs that Hudson was involved in. The games argument is far too simplistic, because even though he was involved in more than twice as many games as Hudson, Venters only had a hand in deciding a third as many outs. This isn’t to say that Jonny wasn’t invaluable, of course he was, the team would’ve been lost without him, but Hudson was certainly more valuable.

Thanks CB

That was exactly what I was going to say.

Medlen

Deserves to be mentioned. Every time he took the mound, I felt like the Braves were in good hands,

I forsee

Medlen getting the MVP in 2012 after a full year back. Meds is good

"Meds is good"

Funny sometimes how the shortest sentences are the most true. If he focuses on the rehab like he should, TJ is just a bump in the road these days. 2012 Meds is a good thought.

sigh.

I miss Meds so much

He'll

be back before you know it!

cut and dried is the correct expression

other than that, great work sport.

It’s good to see Hudson returning from injury to become Cy Young for the Braves and dominate the NL in 2010. Glad to see him healthy. Congrats.

If Tommy Hanson wants to be an elite pitcher, he needs to hang out with Hudson during the off season and develop a sinker or cutter to compliment his arsenal of pitches in case he gets into situation where a ground ball is needed to get out of a jam. That’s just my opinion.

Braves need to trade Lowe while his value is hot. So many young pitching talents in the minors (plus hopefully a healthy return of JJ) will fill the Lowe void.

Kawakami got a raw deal this year being a starting pitcher but hey it happens. Life is not fair.

I’m more worried about where Tommy’s strikeouts went in the 2nd half despite his good pitching.

I don't think Hanson was even close

I know he was pretty unlucky this year, but it seemed like he never really got into a groove. I look for consistency in the pitching MVP and Hanson didn’t seem to have that this season.

he never really got into a groove?

Did you watch the second half of the season?

Derek Lowe

The Lowe that we saw in September was amazing. He really had that new slider working, which I think was the main reason he had so much success. Does anyone think he can carry over his new found nastiness into next season? Of course everyone would love to have September Lowe around next year, but if we trade him now do we have to get another pitcher? I’m so excited about the possibilities for this off-season.

Medlen has to be a runner up for teaching Lowe how to be awesome again.

If we traded Lowe for prospects, we could probably make a competetive offer to Crawford I would think.

That's interesting but...

I just worry about the starting rotation if Lowe gets moved. JJ is seeming kinda fragile and when can we honestly expect Meds to be back? That would leave us with Huddy and Tommy as the one and two with a lot of ??? after that. CAC was calling for us to go after Grienke earlier this year and I have been thinking about it a lot. He pretty much said he wants our of KC and we have what they need.

Who was calling for us to go after Greinke

Because I would put the likelyhood of that at around -50%.

What KC Needed

But we had already shipped Francoeur to New York

I do think Derek Lowe can continue his good work next season. He didn’t just get better results, he flat out pitched better. That slider he had working was just nasty. He used it to put batters away and thus his strikeouts went way up. His cutter also seemed sharper.

While his strikeouts went way up, he continued to get ground balls and not walk many batter. He’s one of the most durable pitchers in the game. You can put him down for around 200 innings every year. As we have seen, he’s great on short rest, which can be important.

Good gosh, what else do want from a starting pitcher? To me, he’s the Braves best starting pitcher right now. I honestly thought the Braves had made a big mistake by giving him $60 million. But the last two months, he has looked a lot like Greg Maddux with few walks but more strikeouts.

Ok

the Maddux comparison is over the top. I’ll give you that he has been very good. But again, he only did it for a month. The league adjusts, and while I have no doubt that he will be effective again in 2011 (though I did before his torrid September), I also don’t think he will be nearly as effective as his September would suggest.

I’m not saying he will have a Greg Maddux-like season in 2010. But, what I am saying is the numbers he put up in September were the product of a genuinely improved pitcher. There is no reason to think he can’t carry that over to next season. Sure, scouting reports will get around and hitters will make adjustments. He won’t be as good for an entire season as he was in September. But, he could still be really, really good.

Maybe this is blasphemous, but for 7 starts he carved up hitters as good as Greg Maddux in his prime. Even if he regresses a lot, he can still be really good.

Lowe, for me at least

Really changed when he came out and said he was struggling.

The work that’s he done with McDowell (and I think McCann?) in the past month or so has really shown while on the mound. I think that if Lowe can recommit himself to improving his game and keeping up his communication with the coaches, we might see an improved Lowe (perhaps the one we were hoping for). I don’t expect September/October Lowe to completely carry-over, but if he can keep getting whifs with that slider and groundballs with the sinker, I expect a Lowe that will keep getting Ws that aren’t DerekLoweWins (as often, at least)

I'm not saying I am rooting against that happening

But I’m not convinced either.

As for the Maddux thing, you are entitled to that opinion, and admittedly the results were similar, but Maddux in his prime was a different kind of pitcher than anything we have ever seen, and maybe ever will.

He looked absolutely FILTHY down the stretch. Even Bobby mentioned in his final Press Conference after the game that Lowe should win 20 games next year if he has the support.

That's

a lot of money for a stacked left-handed lineup

I forsee the pitching MVP being Hanson next season

And also for many of the next 4-5 seasons.

that's what we said last year...
Ya, but Hanson is only 23. And he was unlucky this year. Just wait
He was pretty close.
The Braves twitter guys have a TON of good info today.

Go check that out.

I'd rather not

I’m not on twitter and not about to start. How bout you sum them up for me?

why the hate for twitter?

Not hate

just no need

i used to say that, now i love it. Granted, i don’t tweet myself, i’m only subscribed to the Braves beat writers and a couple other sports related people. Its a good source to get quick news and informative quotes. I don’t use it to say “I got new shoes!” or anything like that.

truthfully, you probably haven’t bought new shoes since 2005 or so. amirite?

Crocs last forever man.

DLee had a torn thumb in all of September.
They’ll look to trade KK, Japan included.
No Crawford, Werth or Dunn for LF. Says they’ll get “creative” to fill the void. (which probably means more of a bullshit platoon.)
Teheran, Delgado and Pastornicky will likely all make Spring Training. Also said JT could come up mid-2011 if necessary.
Freeman will start at 1B.
Might sign a veteran reliever, but it’s not certain. Kimbrel will probably be closer.

thanks

great stuff.

Oh, and Luis Valdez is now Jairo Asencio.

Cool beans

I think i’ll become 11-5.

Is he going to be able to get into the country?

Well now that he isn’t operating under a fake name, date of birth, etc. I’d sure think so.

That'd certainly help

…What? How the heck did he manage to avoid the last 5 years of crackdowns? That’s crazy.

Even Rafael Furcal used his real name.

My favorite story was a guy with the Rangers who they thought was 19 and he turned out to be 26. He was playing A ball and was somewhat OK…for a 19 year old…for a 26 year old his numbers were just bad.

"Get creative"

hopefully means a trade for someone no one knew was available and not a platoon. There’s no way that FW doesn’t know what a void the LF position was this season.

So we’re looking at Raul Mondesi again?

Well that explains DLee. Yet another example of his growing fragility.
Sad to see KK go when he deserved better.
No big free agents isn’t big news, but its not fun news either. I fear what “get creative” means. I hate that platoon.
Good to see the young guys make ST, and it means we get to watch them.
Yay for Freeman. Lets hope he does better than Thorman.
No need for a veteran reliever. Good for Kimbrel.

Explains what? DLee played pretty damn well on both sides of the ball w/ a torn thumb.
He played well enough

but not like the Derrek Lee of old.

damn

i was hoping that while everyone was making a big deal about werth’s power, we could get dunn…
and geez we need to fill that LF void…a trade would be nice since nothing is really available, but i fear that this will mean more platooning…

I'm fine with a LF platoon

BUT we absolutely need an everyday CFer. I wish Jordan Schafer could find his inner superstar again. More than that, I really wish we could stop filling our outfield spots with hope and actually get some proven ballplayers.

Glad that JT and Delgado will be at Spring Training! I went last year, and I’m planning to go again. Lots of fun.

Damn it

If we don’t sign Crawford, Werth, or Dunn, I’m fine with that. But I don’t really like announcements like that, just after losing in the playoffs. To me, it almost seems like the FO saying, “We don’t have much money to spend” I’m so tired of Liberty Media. They are the worst. We have a pretty manageable payroll right now (granted, it’s not MY money). It’s obvious that we need right-handed power. We can’t rely on another Troy Glaus who can only play for half the season.

Maybe this means we will trade for a big bat or two, but I would rather hang onto our pitchers. I do have faith in FW and Co., as I’m sure they want to win as much as I do. I just don’t want to see the same type of lineup trot out there next year. We’ve shown it doesn’t work.

LM is nowhere near the worst.

Try being a fan of the Marlins or Pirates

Agreed, but I still don’t like LM. At least our CEO made $188 million last year! Good times.

Evil profit makers. How dare they profit from a successful business.

Not what I mean to imply

I have NO problem whatsoever with Liberty Media, or any business for that matter, when it comes to making a profit. I own a business myself. I’m a firm believer in business.

I realize things could be much worse for the Braves; I just long for the days when Ted was running things, and not some business with no ties to the city.

To be considered

Liberty Media bought the Braves with the understanding that even if they didn’t invest extra, they would not continue to cut spending like AOL/TW did. However, even before the recession hit, they started cutting payroll slowly.

Well

Werth and Crawford are wayyyyyyyyyy too expensive. Dunn simply can’t play any position any more – expect him to be a DH next year.

Hrm

How do trades in MLB with Japan work?

Happy 18th anniversary of when Sid Slid!

I’m getting old.

Good lord

stay far, far away from the MLBTR comments.

Damn they are awful.

oh comments, yeah makes sense. Same applies to AJC

Our LVP has a 4.35 FIP. That says a lot about our pitching depth

Luke Scott

How has this guy not been traded yet, anyway?

I’ve always liked Scott and he had another stellar season in a very tough division. He wouldn’t take a ton to have either, most likely. I think he was injured at the deadline last year, which probably decreased the interest. But he raked before and after his DL stint.

He’s not a great defender and he’s a bit streaky, but he’d be the Braves best offensive left fielder since……swear to god I can’t think of the last one….

I think Luke Scott would be a great addition. And, like you pointed out, one that’s likely in the Braves’ price range.

lefty hitter

with a platoon split (though it was better this year as I recall).

That doesn’t mean I don’t want him, just making the point.

For his career he hits righties with a .275 average and a .878 OPS, and he hits lefties with a .245 average and a .788 OPS. This year the split was actually greater, with a .297 average and .935 OPS against righties and a .240 average and .787 OPS against lefties. So while there is a big difference, his production against lefties is still better than the production we got out of most of the regular outfielders this year. Matt Diaz supposedly kills righties but this year he hit .273 with a .830 OPS against them. That’s better than what Scott did against righties, but is it really that much better?

Again

Not saying I don’t want him, but I remember that he was being benched against tough lefties. Lefties like, say, Cole Hamels or Johan Santana. He would clearly be an upgrade over anything we currently have, though.

I was thinking of a player like Luke Scott or Shin-Soo Choo. Could be reasonably had from teams that have to be willing to trade most of their players.

Scott

may be reasonable to acquire. But Choo would cost the Braves the farm system. The conversation would start with Teheran plus other prospects. Players with 5 tool ability that actually perform with all 5 tools are extremely rare, and he is one of them. He is also young and cost controlled. I doubt he would even be available. The Indians may be rebuilding, but their farm system has a lot of nearly ready MLB talent and the AL Central isn’t an incredibly strong division. If I were the Indians GM, I would scoff at the idea of trading a telent like Choo right now.

Btw, didn't mean to say 'another' stellar season, as this was his only one.
Does FW "getting creative" mean...

offering Jason Werth whores after each home game?
Giving him a pet tiger?
naming a stadium section after him? Werth-while gifts or something?
letting him Room with heyward on road trips?

what else would wren do?

Sign Scotty Pods and Mark Kotsay

and have their wives distract the opposing pitchers.

interesting strategy

my vote for mvp is dlowe

I know he did not have the season hudson had but he did it in september to get us in, and with any support from the offense, defense, and umpires he would’ve carried us right into the nlcs

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