Talking Chop

Excuse me.....

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS JUST MADE MY DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KJDH2154 - October 12, 2010 reply

I like it – a smooth transition to clear the field for early off-season decisions, forward planning and efforts to improve the team. Also, potentially, I would think the appearance of continuity and stability could really help on the FA front.

fandave - October 12, 2010 reply

Completely Agree

I imagine that this decision was made long ago. After Gonzalez removed his name from the Cubs search, I thought it was all but a foregone conclusion.

Cox is going to be hard to replace, but I do like Gonzalez. He may well keep on the staff as well (Hubbard, Pendleton, Perez, etc.), so there will be virtually no “upheaval.” Finally the last of the “three wise men” have left the team, but so far I’ve been pleased with the replacements to date.

The Braves are in an elite category of professional sports franchises (there may be only five or six) where they are run well from top to bottom. Very rarely does the front office have a complete lapse in judgment. I think Fredi will fit right in and pick up where Cox left off.

kalesi - October 13, 2010 reply

I approve

Congrats Fredi

HEYJUDE - October 12, 2010 reply

Wow Capitol Avenue is pretty mad about this

DogDaysofSummer - October 12, 2010 reply

I'm mad about it too.

Braves were supposed to troll us by selecting TP.

Should’ve seen that coming. He’s said several times he’s not exactly enamored with the idea.

J-Freak - October 12, 2010 reply

i wouldn't consider myself "mad"

but i will be if we see more serious bullpen mismanagement, head scratching bunts and IBB’s, etc etc than in the cox era. i’m not necessarily on board with the notion that the players won’t respect him as much as cox, because i think he’s going to do as little as possible to change the atmosphere (although nobody will ever be bobby cox). but i’m concerned about his in-game management.

note

i’m not CAC, i’m just stating my reaction to his blog post

I think what Bobby Cox proved

is exactly how little in-game management matters in the bigger picture of a manager’s duties. We all tend to analyze every move a manager makes, but managers are pretty much the same when it comes to in-game moves (i.e., they make the same mistakes most of the time). Bobby was never a great in-game manager (though he had his inspired moments), but he was always a great overall manager.

If Fredi is the same, none of us will be complaining too much. Though obviously he’s not a sure thing.

i just got more encouraged by this hire:

reply fail

jc_bradbury:
For all the Fredi bashing I’m reading, I like that he attended SABR 40…in the ugliest Hawaiian shirt I’ve ever seen.

that’s pretty neat if you ask me… too many baseball people these days are staunchly against new-age statistics. i like that he was there open to some new ideas.

but he was 1 for 16 blah blah der der. pissed off generic comments

Absolutely. In-game management is a fairly minor thing and just doesn’t differ all that much. I’m not a Fredi Gonzalez expert, but from what I do know, I expect him to bunt when I don’t want him to and intentionally walk batters when I don’t want him too. And, I’m OK with that. It doesn’t really make a huge difference.

What is more important, is that Fredi respects his players, earns their respect in return and that he demands everyone respect the game. That creates an atmosphere where problems are successfully dealt with and an atmosphere where players can be successful.

In game management isn't that important

Unless it’s game 3 of the 2010 NLDS……..too soon?

kauf67 - October 12, 2010 reply

No.

I can’t believe that anyone who has watched more than five games being played could think in-game management is essentally irrelevant. That’s completely mind-boggling.

Wasting outs, being completely clueless about handling bullpens, never imparting the slighest sense of urgency…these things are bad and they hurt your chances to win, no matter how smooth a ship you run. I will have a problem with Fredi only if he continues in that tradition.

I agree. Was your response meant for me?

Partially, at least.

Pac and Brandon both discounted game management above. That’s a view that has a lot of adherents, but I really disagree with it.

Definitely

My original post was meant to be more sarcastic than anything.

Yeah, I caught that.

My “No” was meant as a reply to your “Too soon?” You have a terrific point about that game and I’ve been banging on about it for a few days, now.

PhuckthePhillies - October 12, 2010 reply

Agree with overall manager thing

A manager’s primary duty is to set the tone, to keep the players inspired to play hard. There are a million little things that goes into this. In game management is a small part of a manager’s job. That being said, I sure would like Freddi to do a better job than Bobby did. those little decisions during the games can often make the difference

BravesFaninAZ - October 13, 2010 reply

Is Fredi an aggressive type of manager SB wise? That and not managing a correct bull pen were Cox’s mistakes

Who exactly should have been stealing more?

I don’t know if you heard, but our team was really slow and the guys that are fast never got on base.

PhuckthePhillies - October 12, 2010 reply

With Heyward’s speed he should at least had 20 steals. McClouth never really was given the chance to steal and he always has been a good SB threat no matter how bad he is at hitting.

Did the Braves have anyone that had 12 or more steals this year?

20 steals and thrown out 10 times…..no thanks

bpk228480 - October 12, 2010 reply

this

He is a good baserunner, but he isn’t a great base stealer. He can steal 10-15 annual though, and I will take that

Braves24 - October 12, 2010 reply

Heyward was 11/17 in steals this year. He may be fast, but he doesn’t have the art of stealing down yet. At that percentage, he should not be stealing.

McLouth is a good basestealer, but he was hardly on base at all this year, so how many steals was he going to get?

I think while Heyward is fast, he’s not got super quick basestealer feet. He runs like a big guy. He’s quite fast for a big guy, but I don’t think he’s necessarily got any kind of amazing acceleration.

Plus, as has been said, basestealing is a skill itself. Reading the pitcher, getting a good jump. Really I think that speed may be the most important factor when it comes to volume of steals, but it’s maybe 3rd most important as far as having a good percentage.

The benefit of going from 1st to 2nd when successful is not nearly as big as the loss of an out and a baserunner when you fail, so you have to be a really talented basestealer to make it worthwhile.

Should all really fast quick guys be good basestealers? Yes, but many aren’t, and if it can be coached, there don’t seem to be a lot of coaches that know how to teach it.

Regardless, we haven’t had many super fast, quick guys in a while, and if there was some basestealing talent I sure didn’t notice.

So

Perhaps someone should be brought in to help him and the other guys with speed maximize their base stealing abilities. I have despised Davey Lopes for a long time, but he’s a guy who has always helped players (his teammates when he played, then guys on the teams he’s managed or coached for) step up their speed games.

Just ignoring it and saying that since Heyward isn’t already Vince Coleman he should probably just give up on the speed game seems really wrong headed to me.

Glaus

should

have stolen at least 40 bases this year

KamikaziMelon - October 12, 2010 reply

Bobby was always as aggressive with stealing bases

as his players warranted. We haven’t had any speedsters since Furcal left, so we haven’t had many steals. But back in the heyday of Deion and Nixon, we stole all the time.

Also, stolen base strategy cannot possibly be considered a major flaw in any manager’s resume. Stolen bases basically don’t matter very much. Obviously the bullpen management issue is a pretty big flaw in Bobby’s style, though.

Agree. I’d much rather have a conservative basestealing manager than an aggressive one.

I wouldn’t go so far as Billy Beane had Macha (or whoever it was) doing back in the day where he told them basically they were forbidden to steal, but I only want guys running who know how to steal bases. Not just, I’m fast, so I’m going.

Yeah, that’s a big part of it. Chipper is actually the Braves best base stealer because he doesn’t get thrown out much. He doesn’t do harm by getting thrown out, yet he occasionally gets a free base. He has been especially good in recent years. Since 2004 he is 31/35. That’s 88 percent, which is tremendous. Although, still a fairly minor factor in the grand scheme of a season.

I believe it has been proven stolen bases are a wash at a 75 percent success rate. So, if you are successful more than 75 percent of the time, they can help a little. If you successful less than 75 percent of the time, they can hurt you a little. I think of stolen bases like gambling on a coin flip. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but over the course of a season, it averages out.

As for bullpen management, I’ve never really had a problem with how Bobby handled his bullpen. Some say he overworked certain guys, but that’s because a lot of years her only had a few guys who were any good. Others say he used the weaker members of the pen (Manny Acosta) too much. Of course, those two arguments contradict each other. As for platoon splits, Bobby usually played it straight, lefty vs. lefty and righty vs. righty. I would prefer a more advanced method, but often the sample sizes on relievers is so small a manager is basically just guessing anyway. So, if you’re going to guess, you might as well guess lefty vs. lefty.

you had me...

until you said stolen bases dont matter

Shoert - October 12, 2010 reply

I think

Some of these people need to watch the Rangers.

They can matter in one game, obviously.

But unless you’re really, really good at it or really, really bad at it. The effect over the course of an entire season is negligible.

J-Turn14 - October 13, 2010 reply

Speed

Is about a lot more than just stolen bases and how you can demonstrate their direct effect on scoring. It changes the other team’s whole outlook and approach to you.

You can’t just run every time willy nilly but if you’re a confirmed station to station team, and you have minimal power, you’re forced to get hit after hit (or hits after walks) and that’s a not always going to be possible. “Speed never goes into a slump” is a cliché, but like many of them, it has a hard kernel of truth inside it.

True...

But this subthread is mostly about stolen bases, not speed.

Stolen bases

Are a subthread of speed. Even if you don’t always use them, the threat should be there.

True again...

But I don’t think you’d get much disagreement that overall speed is very valuable. Where the disagreement comes is when placing too much emphasis on just stolen bases. As has been pointed out, you need a very high success rate for them to be particularly worthwhile.

I don't disagree

I just think it’s an option that can’t be ignored or waved off. Obviously you have to get people who can do it, but that should be a goal in and of itself.

All of these theories and countertheories have a balance in that some aspect of them is applicable and useful. It’s the GM and manager’s job to find that and it (obviously) isn’t easy.

Having guys wuth speed on base can change the other team’s gameplan, whether you steal many bases or not. Think of how many problems guys like Rollins and Reyes have caused us over the years. I’d love to have a leadoff man with that much speed

Shoert - October 13, 2010 reply

Agreed

Lost in the statistics is the unquantifiable effect on a pitcher’s psychology. The element of distraction likely does affect a pitcher in the area of command and some claim it affects pitch selection as well. In addition, middle infielders being forced to cover secondbase decreases their range and opens holes on the infield.

jeg - October 13, 2010 reply

Exactly

Both of you guys get what I’m driving at.

Holty_Panthers_Fan - October 12, 2010 reply

Approved

Smitty89 - October 12, 2010 reply

Great pickup for ATL ~ other additions need to be made and made quickly.

Huge boost, it is like having the closest thing to Bobby that you can get in the ATL dugout without having #6 himself in their. Fredi knows how the Braves operate, he knows the players, the fans, and it was a dumb move by the Marlins to let him walk or better you kick him out of town.

Other Moves Needed:

Braves will have plenty of cash b/c Saito, Glaus, Lee, Wagner, and more than likely Mclouth and KK will either be traded or released/contract buyouts, Diaz and Melky will not return in 2011 for the Braves. I was really not that impressed with Diaz/Melky towards the end of the season and the season as a whole. Both we huge let downs and I would be shocked if ATL offered either arb this offseason. I would prefer to use the money to try and resign Infante which seems doubtful due to him making the all – star team and having a breakout year, but we need to turn our attention to getting Werth from the Phils.

Now can we please get J. Werth in the offseason season, it will cost some more buck but he is the best Power Hitting RH-Bat / OF on the market and their is no way the Phils can afford to keep him b/c all the money is tied up in Howard, Oswalt, Halladay, Hamels.

That Ramsus guy (forgive the spelling) from the Cards would be an interesting option as well but no way I give up any of our great young arms for him. JJ would be an interesting option as trade bait this offseason as would Eric O ! Braves have two great young arms in Dunn, and Venters in the bullpen and we already have had great years from Eric O’ but he is in first arb year as is JJ and both of those guys packaged together plus another pitching prospect would be a good package to acquire Ramsus.

Werth/Ramsus/Heyward – Braves OF in 2011 it could very easily happen and be the case !

Forgive the spelling it has been a shitty work day.

Holty_Panthers_Fan - October 12, 2010 reply

if Rasmus and Werth were on the Braves I would be very very very very shocked. I will shocked if the Braves get either

PhuckthePhillies - October 12, 2010 reply

+1

HansonManCrush - October 12, 2010 via mobile reply

I think Rasmus is doable, but will take someone we may not like giving up.

Werth I don’t think will happen.

Broccoman - October 13, 2010 reply

F$@k Jasyn Werth

That is all.

Aaron Meier - October 12, 2010 via mobile reply

+10

Pieces of shit and the Atlanta Braves don’t mix.

-10

mvhs and I are drivin that bandwagon until it either plummets off a cliff or arrives in the garage.

+100

I CALL SHOTGUN!!!!!!

KJDH2154 - October 13, 2010 reply

+100

southman - October 13, 2010 reply

You ever check splits?

I wonder how much CBP is influencing his delta in slg%? Home: .599 Road: .463 …… I wouldn’t pay the amount of money he wants for someone who will probably hit 25 homeruns max if he plays half his games in non-hitter’s parks. I think we need to make a trade for someone, I don’t really see our answer for a power OF bat on the FA market and we have the talent to spare to acquire a controllable piece.

I’ll take 25 homers from him in a new york minute. That plus 20-ish steals, a right-handed high-OBP bat and roughly average CF defense. Not a hard choice at all.

Not at the salary we would have to pay him

He’s a Boras man if I’m not mistaken

Zach Towery - October 13, 2010 reply

It's NOT going to happen, so drop it

I would literally bet my house, car and bank account that Werth will not be on the Braves next year

DCP916 - October 13, 2010 reply

You'd need to kick those in

(As would the rest of us) to get him here.

All I know is that we need a right-handed slugger.

Creek Johnson - October 13, 2010 reply

not named werth

TCfromDubVee - October 13, 2010 reply

~~not~~ named werth

FTFY.

Holty_Panthers_Fan - October 13, 2010 reply

The Cardinals don’t seem interested in trading Rasmus and I doubt they would listen if the offer started at anything less than a premium, young 3B or SS. Matt Kemp on the other hand seems to be available and while the Dodgers say they aren’t shopping him, they have stated they will listen to offers.

jeg - October 13, 2010 reply

Kemp hun

Well still would rather have Rasmus but Kemp could be doable I must agree.

I am still in favor of bringing in Werth you guy cannot deny he is a great talent. Stats are not everything. Kemp is a good fall back plan though and a much easier guy to get.

We need a speedy leadoff hitter that can actually get on base, and lastly a power hitting OF that can hit somewhere around the cleanup spot.

Heyward needs to stay in the middle of the order in my opinon.

Congratulations Fredi

This was more of a “when” than a “who”

Braves24 - October 12, 2010 reply

Who knows if this will work out,

but I think this is a very logical move. Fredi fits the Braves mold pretty well. He obviously won’t be Bobby Cox, but of the guys available, I’m not sure who else would have been better. (If Buck Showalter were still on the market, I’d be all over him, but that’s about it.)

Let’s just give him 2 seasons before we declare him a success or a failure, OK?

Fredi plays to win, man.

He’s going to do great. And hopefully we’re going to get alot of pop-ins with Bobby in the booth, and the dugout, please God. That would be kewl.

+1

HansonManCrush - October 13, 2010 via mobile reply

I understand both arguments

I totally understand people not who have paid attention to Fredi’s apparent game managing flaws, but honestly, the Braves were always going to go with someone old school.

I wouldn’t say that Fredi is the very best, most enlightened manager in the game. Honestly, I think that except for the very best managers (and I don’t even know that I could name who I think this is as I haven’t cataloged the other managers well enough to be know) there are few guys who are both good people managers and good game managers.

I’m sure Fredi will do somethings I disagree with, but I have no idea whether it will be more or less than other options, particularly the kind of options we might consider.

Plus, I think that the more enlightened approach, the kind that focuses on OBP over average and all that, flows from the GM more than the manager. Not that a manager doesn’t help that a lot, but really the Braves were never going to go for a guy based solely on that. It was always going to be player manager first, strategy second, and I’m just glad we’ve got someone who has been relatively successful doing that.

This is crazy for me though. The two teams I’ve followed the longest time were the Braves and FSU football. Both had their old Bobbys and now both are gone. It’s crazy to be in a position where I might totally hate a coach on my team. Welcome to the real world I guess. FSU’s coach has worked out, hopefully the Braves’ will too.

Agreed...

FSU n Braves fan here..Organizations that know how to run there teams.

SkipTOoMyL0U_ - October 12, 2010 reply

The only other pro teams I cheer for are the Titans and Predators (don’t give a rat’s ass about the NBA)

I have honestly never experienced a coaching change in pro sports – and only one acrimonious one at the college level.

It’s weird to hang out with friends who root for other teams, and how the coaching carousel just sort of rolls off their back.

DCP916 - October 13, 2010 reply

I know, right?

Same here. The last three years with UT have about given me ulcers. I’m used to continuity.

sddbaker - October 13, 2010 reply

Never put all that together

I’m a Vols, Braves, Predators, Titans fan too. I’m old enough to have seen several come and go in Knoxville and Atlanta, but all 4 have been mighty stable for a long time. Until Kiffen.

bighop - October 13, 2010 reply

This is a great day for the future of Braves baseball.

Scott Coleman - October 12, 2010 via mobile reply

i took this picture last year on sept 30

kinda cool that it worked out this way now

that’s a great shot.

I’ve always respected Fredi as a coach and manager. what the Marlins did to him was shit, but the Marlins are scum. and they look like Fools this offseason, more than anything.

I feel bad for the Marlins fans who actually do give a rip. As frustrated as we get sometimes with our fellow fans, I can’t imagine really caring about the Marlins and feeling like the only one.

Then you have a jerk like Loria for whom wins are third at best behind his balance streak and his pride, I can’t imagine feeling that hopeless.

Of course, they do have a crapload of young pitching, + Hanley, and 2 more rings than us in the last 13 years, so I think they’ll hold up. But with a guy like Loria in charge, I’m sure you’re just imagining ways he’ll screw it all up.

balance sheet

not streak, that’s dumb.

God, it really has ben 15 years since we won...thanks for reminding me

Awesome shot.

Jason Kirk - October 12, 2010 reply

Cool!

Next order of business: Fire TP, hire Chipper.
I’m really big on Chipper being hitting coach. He has so much knowledge about hitting. (which he learned from Larry Sr., not any of our hitting coaches. Considering that, maybe we’ll hire Larry Sr? haha)

MBL1 - October 12, 2010 via mobile reply

Uhhh...Chipper's trying to play.

We need Don Baylor.

Don Baylor would be nice

Brandonba - October 12, 2010 reply

Groove

Last I heard, Don was interviewing for the Blue Jays vacant managerial job.

or maybe a player/coach?

bravesfan1047 - October 12, 2010 reply

People on AJC/Facebook are so ignorant. WOW. I keep seeing the marlins obviously fired him for a reason!!!

No matter what, every braves manager from here on out will be compared to Bobby. It’s just a fact.

MBL1 - October 12, 2010 via mobile reply

I have a few friends who are Marlins fans

They hate Loria, and were super pissed about firing Fredi.

But obviously those people on AJC/Facebook are ignorant, if they think that the only reason people are fired is because of failure, and instantly they are bad. That’s funny, that’s why I stay with the slightly higher intelligence of the TC community!

KJDH2154 - October 12, 2010 reply

lol. those “315 people” on facebook are all 14 year old kids who don’t even know that the Marlins are seriously mismanaged/fucked.

Cox was once fired.

By the Braves!

Tarkus - October 12, 2010 reply

Ted Turner

Either fired, or allowed to be fired, two Hall of Fame managers.

Ted never did anything halfassed.

As I recall...

Ted said when firing Cox, that if he wasn’t firing him, he’d be hiring him. Ted loved Bobby, but just felt like he needed to make a change. Given the way Cox came back and laid the foundation for Schuerholz, it probably worked out for the best.

The Cox firing

Is far more defensible than firing Torre after ‘84. The people responsible for that should be sent to Devil’s Island.

torre is

one of the most overrated managers of this generation. He never did anything with any team that wasn’t loaded or meant to win… Bobby won with teams that had no business even coming within 10 games of the playoffs. Torre’s career winning percentage outside of NYY speaks for itself.

Look up what he did here in '82 through '84.

I was around then. He’s a terrific manager.

Bobby Cox

built that team. Torre inherited that team from another manager. Same with his run with the Yankees. That situation fell right into his lap.

Look what Eddie Haas did

With essentially the same team in ‘85. No one does anything in a vacuum, but if you’re not a good manager, you can fuck up even well stocked teams.

Besides which, Torre has always credited Cox for leaving him a good situation.

By the way, Cox was only the manager of the team from ‘78 through ’81. Bobby didn’t draft Murphy, Horner or Bedrosian or trade for Chambliss. He had things going in the right direction but Torre guided the ship (which I keep reading around here is the main job of the manager) to success. (Which is the same thing Cox was doing at the same time with the Blue Jays, i.e., taking over a stacked team and guiding it well.)

Seriously, you’re on firmer ground in crediting Cox for laying his own groundwork after he returned from Toronto and took over as GM.

I agree

that any manager can screw up the ideal situation. Not everyone is cut for managing grown men.

Also, I agree that you can definitely attribute more influence to Cox for the renaissance we had in the 90’s due to the fact that he was GM, but I’m sure there is a chance he played a role in the drafting of both Horner and Bedrosian, due to the fact that he was coach.

Dale Murphy could have been a nobody if not for Bobby. Bobby had the foresight to move him from catcher, where he was atrocious, to CF, where he became a back-to-back MVP.

The fact of the matter is that Joe Torre had some years where his teams played to horrible records, talent or not. As the Mets manager, he recorded a .405 winning percentage, finishing at or near the bottom almost every year. Although, Torre did nearly have two teams with above .500 career winning percentages in the Braves and Cardinals.

The only year that Torre finished in first before he was on the Yankees was the first year after Bobby left. The only time Bobby finished in first besides when he was on the Braves is his 4th, and last, year in Toronto. His first year, that team finished in 6th, the following 4th, then 2nd, and the year they finished 4th, they still ended the year at 89-73.

That is correct...

Asked at a press conference who was on his short list for manager, Turner replied, “It would be Bobby Cox if I hadn’t just fired him. We need someone like him around here.”

Well done.

Question

Don’t the Braves have to interview other candidates as well before picking someone i.e. the NFL?

Jay212033 - October 12, 2010 reply

I thought the NFL rule only meant minorities. So if they did Fredi Gonzalez would fit the bill.

bpk228480 - October 12, 2010 reply

but I’ve never heard of such a rule in MLB anyway.

bpk228480 - October 12, 2010 reply

No, there is no such rule in the MLB....

and I think MLB clubs are quieter about who they interview (I’m not sure they have to ask for “permission” from other teams to interview their coaches like they do in NCAA and NFL)

Oh, they have to ask for permission all right. That phrase gets thrown around like candy at Halloween, and the Yankees have a standing policy of not granting that permission to anyone seeking to interview their personnel.

Their is not a rule, but about 10 years ago the commissioner’s office started strongly urging teams to interview minority candidates. Even if it was a rule, Fredi would be the only one they would have to interview.

Yes, I was remembering something like this. No teeth to it, but it’s like the draft slot bonuses and trying to keep salaries under control (strongly suggested, but not everyone listens)

Congrats Fredi.

I hope they give him #7

NCChopper - October 12, 2010 reply

That’s Joe Thurston’s sacred number

is #7 still cursed?

Shoert - October 12, 2010 reply

Hadd 33 with the Fish - can't find a photo of his prior Braves number

Count me as applauding this hire.

carpengui - October 13, 2010 reply

Clubs are going to be scrambling for seasoned managers in 2011.

ALL those clubs are rolling their eyes right now, which is awesome. lol.

This

Bobby wasn’t leaving without knowing that his replacement was going to be someone he liked. This is a great move, as Fredi is such a manager.

While other teams are scrambling, we’ll be able to sit back, get the ball rolling for next season, and smile, for we got the guy we wanted in zero time.

Good luck, Fredi! Go Braves!

Jman781 - October 12, 2010 via mobile reply

What I wanna know is

Was there ever a possibility of Torre coming here? I"m not totally sold on Fredi, tho I admit I don’t know much on him. I realize the Fish are terribly run, but there has always been decent-good farm talent, and young players. But seems I recall Torre having some small ties to ATL, and I wonder what it would have taken to get him here? I worry that, since Bobby’s announcement to retire, the only name mentioned has been Fredi, even before he was let go. What’s the draw w/ him? I think we should have tested the market, tho Idk who else is out there.

ROBravo - October 12, 2010 reply

Small ties?

Dude played for and managed the Braves. But no, I don’t think they really considered him. They don’t need another manager who’s about to retire.

Exactly.

"They don't need another manager about to retire" True!

BravesFaninAZ - October 13, 2010 reply

Good Hire in my opinion

He’s a players type of guy just like bobby. Players will always play hard for a coach who cares for his guys.

SkipTOoMyL0U_ - October 12, 2010 reply

players, except for Ramirez

rookiefan - October 13, 2010 reply

Which says more about Ramirez than it does about Gonzalez.

agreed.. just taking a shot at Ramirez…

agreed.. just taking a shot at Ramirez…I really don’t like laziness.

rookiefan - October 13, 2010 reply

post fail.

i don’t have a stutter.

rookiefan - October 13, 2010 reply

torre

would of been interesting, if they didnt at least approach the idea and have talks with torre than thats a bad move. the bobby cox era is over, nothing wrong with getting a diff kind of coach running things. we dont have to have a bobby cox protege

FoAdTriPPinG - October 12, 2010 reply

yeah, we do.

It’s Bobby’s call.

This...and it's not like Bobby wasn't working out for us

People are treating this like we fired Bobby and need a change of regime. It’s the exact opposite…we want more of it (or at least the FO does). If people think we’re going to go a whole other direction, not happening

nope

its called getting best guy for the job. has nothing to do with bobby.

FoAdTriPPinG - October 12, 2010 reply

Well, it kind of does...

These are Bobby’s players…I assume the best way to get them to play would be for a guy that is like Bobby. If you bring in an anti-player’s manager (even if he may be the “best guy”), I can imagine that you might have some problems

We did

and his name is FrediG!

TCfromDubVee - October 13, 2010 reply

Torre

Is a shitty bullpen manager… Venters would be made to pitch even on off/travel days

HansonManCrush - October 12, 2010 via mobile reply

could u remind me

how many ws rings does torre have?

FoAdTriPPinG - October 12, 2010 reply

Yeah, it’s amazing, when you spend twice as much as everyone and pump your team full of steroids you tend to win. He’s a real master for taking the team that Buck Showalter built and riding them to victory.

+1

Not to mention the Atlanta Braves team that Bobby Cox built as well. He’s really awesome at riding coattails though.

You need to stop claiming that.

It ain’t true.

That's funny.

I was about to say that we should hire Showalter then fire him. Next season=ring.

TennKen - October 13, 2010 reply

Pretty curious to see if it works in Baltimore.

I think it does.

Or maybe that’s just me hoping it does.

Creek Johnson - October 13, 2010 reply

I live it Norfolk where their AAA team is so it would be really neat to watch them all of the sudden get good.

Not for the Rangers

jeg - October 13, 2010 reply

And this would differ from this last year...

How, exactly?

Chino Cadahia for manager

That man is brilliant! Bringing in Troy Glaus as a defensive replacement and Kyle Farnsworth to get the double play ball in game 2……what a mensa!

wtholt27 - October 12, 2010 reply

Who knew Chino could control other people and how they pitch

Also, you know that Bobby was making those calls, right?

Chino has extreme baseball mind powers.

The only conclusion anyone could come to is that he was controlling Troy and Kyle because honestly they would not have a chance in hell otherwise.

and what if Chino had been relaying the calls to Bobby?

/sarcasm

wtholt27 - October 12, 2010 reply

maybe that's what we should do

hire Chino to be the new manager, and have Bobby lurk three feet down the hall wispering to him all season

Always seemed to work in the past!

DCP916 - October 13, 2010 reply

I like it!

thrilled

JKowalek - October 12, 2010 reply

We got...

…Fredi “OnlyBuilt4CubanLinx” Gonzalez running the show!!! This is a great hire. Nobody on this team will quit on him and be a club house cancer (Yes, i’m looking at you Hanley Ramirez!). We need to shore up left and center field and hopefully add some speed and power. Do we have Hinske locked for next year? If we don’t, i hope we bring him back because he’s a great club house guy and a solid player off the bench. With all the young arms in the minors this team’s arrow is pointing way up! Really excited about the 2011 and beyond for our Atlanta Braves.

ledge2 - October 12, 2010 reply

How did Fredi

get the nickname of a Raekwon album?

He is...

…Cuban. And that is one of my favorite albums. I just thought it would work.

ledge2 - October 12, 2010 reply

Works for me.

Hudson's Soul Patch - October 12, 2010 reply

Very nicely written there Gondeee.

You just about nailed it.

Scott Coleman - October 12, 2010 via mobile reply

I just read your post on rostebation and that song is stuck in my head.

I F’N HATE YOU!!

Hahahahaha

I just need somebody to LOOOOVVVEEEE!

Scott Coleman - October 12, 2010 via mobile reply

I'm still mad at you for previewing the Giants series

I try to avoid

Capital Avenue club as much as possible for that exact reason – stupid bullshit.

Apparently, whoever the writer is doesn’t like the hiring for these two reasons:

1) “Fredi Gonzalez is not Bobby Cox.”

Uhm….No shit! Nobody they can hire will be Bobby Cox. Doh!

2) “Just because he has worked with Bobby Cox does not mean he will be as effective as Bobby Cox.”

Uhm…and you’re basing this on…what? Apparently the idea that Gonzalez used to work with Cox is reason enough NOT to hire him.

Simply said – the logic behind both of the above assumptions is never really explained.

Anyways, if you continue to read the post – it talks about how Cox was so great at getting the most out of his players…and Fredi won’t be able to do this. Again, any proof or logic or whatever behind this statement isn’t explained.

The best is saved for last though. Please read this paragraph:

“I’m not going to crucify him [Fredi Gonzalez] before he begins the job, and I’ll try to keep an open mind about this whole thing, but I do sincerely believe this is a gigantic mistake that the organization will severely regret.”

Uhhh…wtf?

“I’m not going to crucify him…but I do sincerely believe this is a gigantic mistake.”

Yeah, like I said. That post is a perfect example of why Capital Avenue Club is pure shit.

Did he mention...

..who he thought would be a better hire???

ledge2 - October 12, 2010 reply

Yeah haha

Another good point.

Talks plenty about how bad the decision to hire Fredi is…but then doesn’t speak at all about a viable candiate that will fit his standards.

Did you even read the comments section?

Yes, he does…and I agree with CAC at least in part for the quantifiable reasons he lists. Fredi does a lot of things that make you scratch your head. But I’m definitely more optimistic than CAC.

Alright I went through all that

Some more amusing stuff to read. I liked how in one comment he critizied that Fredi’s staff from 2007-2009 tended to average around 60 intentional walks (I guess IBB are bad strategy moves for CAC). The Atlanta Braves this season had…..drum roll….64 intentional walks. Uhm, again. Wtf.

As for his suggestions for mangers, here is his comment:

“I would have preferred one of the internal candidates–Perez, McDowell, Hubbard; leaning towards Perez–or a smart, young-ish coach like John Farrell or Mike Maddux.”

I’m not going to get into an argument about whether Fredi Gonzalez is a better manager for the Braves than Glen Hubbard (lol), but I wish he would have actually explained why ALLLLLLLLL those guys are such better choices than Fredi.

He picked the wrong Maddux. If Mad Dog doesn’t have a mind to manage, then nobody does.

MAD DOG FOR MANAGER. My campaign will never die.

He's not interested.

Of course he isn’t going to be interested after one year in the Cubs FO without a defined role yet. But I’d bet money he’s going to be managing for someone in the next decade or two, and I hope to hell it’s in Atlanta.

My campaign will never die.

What I meant was...

He’s said all along that he has no interest in becoming a manager.

That’s a royal shame. Watching him manage a game would be like watching Bobby Fischer chess someone to death.

He could always change his mind...

But he doesn’t strike me as someone who wants all the hassle and commitment it takes to be a manager. That has to be something that really burns inside you.

Oh!

I also missed this gem:

Rather than finding the best man for the job, the organization has taken the easy way out. "He’s been a part of a successful Bobby Cox staff? Sure, we’ll hire him! That makes it simple, no thinking involved."

Yeah…I’m sure Frank Wren and Co. spent minimal time this season evaluating and thinking about who they wanted to hire.

“does not mean he will be as effective as Bobby Cox”

If THAT’S your criteria, then you can’t hire ANYBODY. Name one other manager who’s been to the playoffs 16 times in the past twenty years. Give up? The answer is NONE. Even the Yankees as a team have only managed 15 appearances with 3 managers. If Fredi and the front office is HALF that good, we’ll all be singing his praises — CAC included.

carpengui - October 13, 2010 reply

CAC

You can’t really argue with his point. There is just no way to prove how this will work out. If your read it closely it just comes down to what you think a manager should do. He’s annoyed about 9 sac bunts and a bunch of intentional walks. We don’t know the situation of those bunts or those walks. Maybe they were textbook times to do it, given the runners on base and the batters at the plate (such as a major GIDP guy). He’s just trying to stir the pot. Take a look at his suggested choices in the comments. Eddie Perez. Come on. Guy has been a bullpen coach and a player. Might as well just name Chipper.

ruxsin - October 12, 2010 reply

Wait

so being a former player hurts your chances of being a manager? Hmmm…

Its a non factor

Every manager played baseball.

sag969 - October 13, 2010 reply

Whats interesting to me

and something i didnt think about was possible coaching changes. Will Fredi keep all of the same coaches? There has been speculation that TP could decide to leave if not given the job, same for Chino. Also questions over Snitker.

I wouldn’t mind TP leaving. Maybe Chip decides to retire after all and just becomes the hitting coach. Crazy how all of the success stories we hear from our hitters have Chipper and not TP in them.

drumzalicious - October 12, 2010 reply

I’d bet money that Pendleton leaves. He wants to be a manager and the idea that they’d bring in somebody else is going irk him.

I don’t know if it will happen, but we just might see Andres Galarraga as the hitting coach. He worked with the Marlins for a few weeks in ST this year and he and Eddie Perez are best friends.

Eddie, Fredi, and The Big Cat:

The three best friends that anybody could have…

GeneParmesan - October 13, 2010 reply

The Big Cat would be interesting...

They wouldn't be scared of a tiger.

Well, maybe Eddie would.

get swoll yunel - October 13, 2010 reply

Re: Galarraga

That would rule. I <3 the Big Cat.

Absolutely love it. Fredi is the nicest guy in the world and he’s a great baseball guy. I can’t wait to see him at the helm.

Experience and pedigree? I LIKE IT! In other news I found this on espn.com...

“Now that they have a good manager, they need to do other things now…

- cut Derek Lowe
- Cut Derek Lee
- Cut their entire infield except Omar, Martin, Freddi, and Alex
- Cut their entire outfield except Jason Heyward and Matt Diaz
- Spend money on reliable bats for the outfield and the infield."

/hardest facepalm ever

MartinMcFly - October 13, 2010 reply

Cut Derek Lee

hahaha

Let's cut Heyward too.

He was really bad in the NLDS.

Creek Johnson - October 13, 2010 reply

wait

so we just would eat Lowes contract and let another team take him for free??

Guess we’re cutting McCann in that scenario too

drumzalicious - October 13, 2010 reply

I haven't the slightest

I mean, whoever posted it obviously hasn’t the slightest clue about …well, anything. Thats kinda why I reposted it : P

MartinMcFly - October 13, 2010 reply

Colin Cowherd

Writing under one of his two dozen screennames there.

I'm pretty sure

MartinMcFly is just showing what he found on ESPN.com, not his opinions

Right.

That board has a high stupid quotient (they’re a good rival for the AJC comments section) and it’s been a running joke of mine for a while that Cowherd is just the sort of doofus who would register a bunch of alts and fill the message boards with his demented swill.

Ban him!

Where man?

MikeTrain - October 13, 2010 reply

espn.com comments on the Gonzales hiring story

if memory serves it was one of the first 20

MartinMcFly - October 13, 2010 reply

I hope the Braves own the Marlins next year so they can stick it to Jeff Loria. The guy’s a jackass.

TonyAlmeyda - October 13, 2010 reply

This whole thing

May just develop like that. It’s not like we don’t already have a rivalry, but this, coupled with the churlish way that Loria behaved toward Bobby (and the raw deal he gave Fredi that started the whole thing in the first place), may up the ante on this rivalry.

Plus, you know Hanley is going to point at Fredi in the dugout the first time he gets a hit against the Braves next year. This could get to be a lot of fun.

we should keep Farnsworth just for that… stick him in AA/AAA and call him up first game v. Marlins, and send him at Hanley!!!!
lol

-1 - October 13, 2010 reply

So I was just reading Jeff Schultz story on this over at AJC

And I made the mistake of scrolling down to read the comments…..I feel so stupid right now just from reading them (or attempting to), I don’t even know what to do, I hurried back here as soon as I could

KJDH2154 - October 13, 2010 reply

I have to take a shower...

Every time I read the comments at MLB or AJC.

JUST DON'T DO IT.

What is read can never be unread.

sddbaker - October 13, 2010 reply

Why aren’t there any good game-managers, who are also good locker room coaches? seriously? I mean there are books written about the best way to construct lineups, and make game decisions, yet a bunch of old still rely on the crapcrafice bunt, or put there best hitter in the 3 spot. you get the drift.

Braves Biceps - October 13, 2010 reply

Because there are no good game managers...

every one gets second guessed and 20/20 hindsighted into stupidity.

SouthernPanther - October 13, 2010 reply

but some things are stupid w/o 20/20 hindsight.

Braves Biceps - October 13, 2010 reply

Not sure why people don't like this move...

personally I love this hire

Love it,

I think he will be a good manager for us. Go Braves!!!

AlabamaTitans2009 - October 13, 2010 reply

It is always hard being “the guy after the guy.” Fredi will do fine though. It’s the worst kept secret in Atlanta.

BullManUGA - October 13, 2010 reply

bring in some bats

i hope the Braves try to get Carl Crawford and Dan Uggla,that would be two good bats and play their positions?

jayball - October 13, 2010 reply

Crawford is know for his speed but I'm for getting him

I don’t think we need Uggla unless Prado goes down again

southman - October 13, 2010 reply

Prado

why not put prado at Third Base, he did a good job there until he got hurt?

jayball - October 13, 2010 reply

because Chipper's returning

Prado would only be a backup and I don’t wish that upon him

southman - October 13, 2010 reply

Prado may start the season there, though.

So, any word on what his staff might look like?

Who from Perez, Cadahia, McDowell, Snitker, Pendleton, Hubbard, etc go?

Just curious, I assume Eddie was playing around the time Fredi was here, but of the others, who has he worked with before? I think he and McDowell spent one year on staff together. He was defintely on staff with TP, but not Cadahia. Not sure how much experience he has working with the others.

I think Perez and McDowell are sure to say, Pendleton is sure to go, because he’ll decide to, and the rest are up in the air.

I’m good with that.

king of games - October 13, 2010 reply

I’m just ecstatic that Terry Pendleton won’t be the manager because if you had asked me earlier in the year who would get the job, I’d have thought that politically correct forces would have made Pendleton the only choice allowed to the Braves.

Don’t expect major free agent moves in the offseason folks. Crawford? Wyeth? It won’t happen. Barring getting some sucker to eat the final year on KK’s contract there simply isn’t enough money available to get a real fix for the OF. They’ll probably do another Glaus type signing of a cheap guy looking to prove he can rebound from recent injuries.

Zontar - October 13, 2010 reply

I really like Peter over at Capitol Ave....

and normally we are pretty much in agreement. I just don’t like shooting someone down before they ever get started.

sddbaker - October 13, 2010 reply

Good hire

It’s a good hire. Who knows if he will be successful, but this is a move that is hard to argue. He did a very good job with the Marlins, and if we didn’t hire him, another club would. I’m sure that he will make many mistakes (as all managers do), and there will be many comments about bad is he is, why did we hired him, etc etc, but all is all, this move makes sense.

Now on to the more difficult task – improving the offense.

ryantex - October 13, 2010 reply

FIRE SNITKER!

Please don’t keep him around for another year. Up until this year I wasn’t even aware of the 3B coach half the time. Now every time a ball is hit into the gap with a runner on 1B, I just turn away from the TV.

Undocorkscrew - October 13, 2010 reply

Fredi will be announced today!

Scott Coleman - October 13, 2010 via mobile reply

If Fredi is willing to bunt

with man on 2nd nobody out.

I’m a happy camper.

BravesFTW - October 13, 2010 reply

We’ve had runners on second with no outs?

king of games - October 13, 2010 reply

hypothetically.

10-4 - October 13, 2010 reply

I thought this was a great move, and pretty much what I’d hoped for all along. He’s familiar with the organization but he’s been out of it for a few years now, and I think he’ll be the same sort of manager that Bobby Cox was but with a few ideas of his own.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Terry Pendleton managing someplace next year, with all the openings that are out there. I just don’t think that he’d have been all that good here. Call it my gut.

John Holton - October 13, 2010 reply

Fredi should be introduced in just a few minutes...

s.r.j - October 13, 2010 reply

via DOB

Expect McDowell and Snitker to be on Gonzalez’s staff, for certain. But not hitting coach Terry Pendleton.

joshant - October 13, 2010 reply

I like this, I hope TP leaves on his own terms though, just because he wants to be a manager, he’s got to be upset that they went outside the organization to get a manager. McDowell has earned himself this position, TP, not so much.

KJDH2154 - October 13, 2010 reply

That's too bad.

His choice or Fredi’s?

sounded like an organizational choice

Wren is the one who responded to the question about the coaching staff… basically said him and Chino were not offered positions in the organization. Chino is being replaced by Tosca (Fredi’s bench coach in FL). Pendleton is moving to 1B, Snitker remaining at 3B, Roger and Eddie remaining as Pitching and Bullpen coaches, respectively. Discussions about hitting coach are still underway.

and yeah, I agree, it is too bad… sad to see both Glennand Chino gone.

knarf - October 13, 2010 reply

Thanks for the info.

I’ll have to look up the press conference later.