The Atlanta Braves have never been very forthcoming about how much their payroll actually adds up to. Most of what reporters tend to get are shrugs and grunts when they ask Braves' executives about possible shortfalls or extra cash they may potentially have laying around. Mark Bowman tries to get to the bottom of how much more money the Braves may or may not have left to spend:
Like many of you, I had been putting these salaries in a data base and essentially finding a payroll that added up to something in the neighborhood of $85-87 million. During the 2009 season, the Braves spent closer to $95 million.
When Schuerholz responded, "(The payroll) won't be diminished at all", I basically knew I'd be spending a portion of the evening trying to dissect his words to determine how he was expressing a falsehood in a truthful manner. [...]While the Braves spent approximately $95 million last year, a portion of this total was utilized via insurance funds provided courtesy of the fact that Tim Hudson missed the first five months of the season.
When you subtract these unspecified funds, it's easier to see why the Braves say their payroll will once again rest around $90 million.
"It's just the way we do the accounting, you see." This smacks of the way they averaged Mike Hampton's salary out over his tenure in Atlanta, so much so that (1) we didn't know they had averaged out over the years until his second to last year in Atlanta and (2) we have no idea how they ultimately budgeted that money. It seems to me that the Braves' executives are just finding creative ways to cover up the fact that their corporate owner is tightening the purse strings year after year.
That said, there is something to be said for keeping a little money in the bank to address mid-season needs should you need to. Of course, around that time I'm sure we'll get some cryptic answer from the team about how much they have to spend.
0 recs | 81 comments
One word:
Tedturner
Bobby Cocks - January 6, 2010 via mobile
One word Part 2
Arthurblank
Bobby Cocks - January 6, 2010 via mobile
+1.5
FineHamAbounds - January 6, 2010
That would certainly be delightful.
The Keith Lockhart Era - January 7, 2010
he's certainly shown a willingness to spend what it takes with the Falcons...
I’d be all for that.
Mr. Sanchez - January 7, 2010
+1
FineHamAbounds - January 6, 2010
T-T-t….
Chief Noc-A-Homa - January 6, 2010
Two words:
Midseason Pickup
heapofoatmeal - January 6, 2010
So...
Exactly how much do we have available right now? He alludes that we are sitting at $86 million:
Are we indeed sitting at $86, or am I misreading that? $4 million isn’t all that much to play with.
Kelly's Big Johnson - January 6, 2010
Wow.
I am the biggest goober ever. I reread the article and see where he says he calculates 85 – 87 million.
NM.
Kelly's Big Johnson - January 6, 2010
Add in the other minimum salaries on the 40 man....
and you get closer to that 90 number.
Mr. Sanchez - January 7, 2010
I think it’s fairly evident that the Braves are sitting on some money, just not $10MM or something. There’s probably enough in there to make up the difference between a current player and a reasonably priced contract in trade, but it clearly wasn’t enough to sign Holliday or Bay or something.
FineHamAbounds - January 6, 2010
hmm
Makes you wonder who they have their eye on in that price range . . . Cuddyer maybe? Could be something where down the road during the regular season if we are only a game or so back and just need that extra push if we go and try and pry him away if the Twins arent doing to hot
drumzalicious - January 6, 2010
I think it is for midseason acquisitions.
We are pretty much set with our roster right now. But we certainly have plenty of serious injury risks. We don’t know what we’ll need by mid-season, but I hope we have something to get what we need.
cavebird - January 6, 2010
ahh
Greg Norton money. He’s playing hardball.
MayorofPonce - January 6, 2010
This is all leading up to one big move:
ALBERT PUJOLS!
It’s gonna happen. The signs are all over the place.
Scott Coleman - January 6, 2010
Ya know, that may not be that crazy of an idea…with Holliday locked up for 7 more years, one could get the impression that the Cards are going to let the greatest hitter in the game go.
justincredubil02 - January 6, 2010
in 2012
Hitting 3rd for the Atlanta Braves, Jason Heyward!
Now hitting 4th for the Atlanta Braves, Albert Pujols!
And hitting 5th for the Atlanta Braves, Brian McCann!
BOING.
Scott Coleman - January 6, 2010
schwing
VivaLosBravos - January 6, 2010
He said he wants to stay in STL and will take a hometown discount. My guess is he goes nowhere
GoBravesNY - January 6, 2010
He’d get SO much money though. Yeah, you can take a discount of a few million, but the difference in offers could be $20-$30MM dollars, if not more. I bet he’s gone when his contract ends.
Scott Coleman - January 6, 2010
Would St Louis be willing to give 2 guys 1/4 or 1/5 of their payroll though?
justincredubil02 - January 6, 2010
I doubt it…however, if the Cardinals asked for $20 bucks from each of their fans to boost revenue, they’d probably recieve $40 from each. I’ve never met a fanbase that loves their team more than Cardinal fans do, with the possible exception of the Cubs.
Scott Coleman - January 6, 2010
nope. Cards fans love their team more. Lived in STL and made the drive to CHI many times. Cards fans are arguably the greatest fans in the sense that they give the most to their team
GoBravesNY - January 6, 2010
Yep. Growing up in Missouri, Mike Shannon could be heard on every porch in the neighborhood or from every car on the street. Cardinals baseball IS St. Louis.
Scott Coleman - January 6, 2010
Is that the same Mike Shannon that wrote the book on the Frontier League ump with one eye?
The Keith Lockhart Era - January 7, 2010
Cubs fans are like Red Sox fans
The real fans are good, but most of their fan base is made up of fashionable baseball fans.
axhfan - January 6, 2010
It’s incredible how spread out the Cubs fans are, though. They haven’t won anything in 100 years and they’re always top-3 in road attendence, behind the Yankees and RedSox
fansbandwagoners.Scott Coleman - January 6, 2010
You do see a lot of douchers in brand new Cubs hats though.
The Keith Lockhart Era - January 7, 2010
It’s WGN.
Kinda like that other team that used to be on a “Superstation”…
Sweatsack - January 7, 2010
yep
I used to be a semi-Cubs fan. When my family first got cable, the afternoon was spent watching cubs and the evening was the braves…
Doghnut - January 7, 2010
It is not just being spread out.
The Cubs and Red Sox also tend to have very good away attendance because it is almost impossible to get tickets to their home games. I have some in-laws in Chicago who are Cubs fans and always see the Cubs a couple of times per year—-in Milwaukee.
cavebird - January 7, 2010
Currently, Pujols is highway robbery
It’s like 90% of guys on a long-term deal, they’re going to have a down year, or a period of time that causes sportsheads to wonder “Was it really a good idea?” Carlos Beltran, Barry Zito, Andruw Jones, Vernon Wells, Alfonso Soriano come to mind immediately, as they’ve all had off-years due to injury and/or falloff.
But Pujols’s 7yr/$100M contract signed in 2004 is like the biggest steal ever, since he’s pretty much never not did what warranted a long-term deal in the first place, and has not missed a step throughout the entire duraiton. Roughly 14-15M a year for a guy who produces like Pujols, every single year, is definitely a huge steal.
I have to imagine that when re-negotiations come into play, he’s going to be expecting a deal that garners him no less than $18M a year, considering Matt Holliday is making $17M a year, and he’s no Albert Pujols. Even with a hometown discount, the Cards are still going to likely be expected to shell out a ton of money to have a snowball’s chance in hell of keeping Pujols.
royhobbs - January 7, 2010
But the reason they paid so much for Holliday was to prove to Pujols that they were willing to spend to win. Had they not pursued Holliday, Pujols was a goner.
Bobby Cocks - January 6, 2010 via mobile
Now get this teaser from LaRussa...
He’s apparently suggested there is a possibility that on August 31st, St.Louis could add a guy named ‘McGwire’ to the roster… I’m guessing the report was serious. Can you possibly imagine pitching to Holliday, Pujols, and McGwire in succession??? Just walk ’em all and pray you had a 4 run lead.
carpengui - January 7, 2010
Keep doubting me...
Pujols for Freeman, McLouth, Cory Rasmus, Cody Johnson, Cole Rohrbough, Robinson Lopez, Brandon Hicks, James Parr, Stephen Marek, and Tyler Stovall.
Mr. Sanchez - January 7, 2010
Proposed Contract terms for Pujols
$25m per year for 10 years ($250m total), payable at $10m per year for the first 10, then $2m/year for the next 75 years. Hey, the Cards are gonna pay Holliday until 2029, so why can’t the Braves pay Pujols until 2097??
carpengui - January 7, 2010
Pujols 2099
Anyone else remember those Pujols-awful Marvel Comics spinoff series back in the late 90s? Spider-Man 2099, Doom 2099, Hulk 2099, etc, etc, etc.
If Pujols 2099 kept the same MO as those comics, then he’d be breaking Hank Aaron’s HR total every single season, and OPSing something like Ω.
royhobbs - January 7, 2010
i do, sadly.
10-4 - January 8, 2010
Also
Anyone else see the part where Matt Holliday is entitled to a $50,000 bonus if he is awarded MVP of the NLDS? Sidney Ponson fell for that one, too.
Good times.
royhobbs - January 7, 2010
Braves retaining a few bucks...
In case Heyward is not ready.
waysouth - January 6, 2010 via mobile
Or someone gets hurt.
Or a lot of people get hurt. Heyward is hardly the only one who is not guaranteed to succeed.
cavebird - January 6, 2010
Braves should sign Chapman.
waysouth - January 6, 2010 via mobile
With the money left over and no 1st round pick, there has to be money. Can you think of a better way to find Chipper’s replacement than having tradeable pitching assets such as JJ, Hanson, Medlen, Teheran, Vizcaino, Delgado, Minor and maybe Chapman along with all the others? Use your assets to obtain assets to trade for other assets.
waysouth - January 6, 2010 via mobile
Chapman will cost something north of $20 million. And I don’t care if he turns out to be Cuba’s answer to Randy Johnson: there’s no justification for paying an amateur that kind of coin before he ever throws a competitive pro pitch. And just to cover my bases here, I would probably have advised against $15m for Strasburg (who’s probably just as ML ready). It’s just too much for a “prospect” when so many prospects ultimately bomb out.
Just sayin.
carpengui - January 6, 2010
Please stop adding gate to words in reference to scandal.
someguy917 - January 6, 2010
So, you’d call this Gategate?
FineHamAbounds - January 6, 2010
+1
acie4mvp - January 6, 2010
I have no witty banter. Sorry.
someguy917 - January 6, 2010
ha
VivaLosBravos - January 6, 2010
I get tired of the “-gate” suffix, too. But I take it with a grain of salt. I call anything remotely scandalous “ScandalGate”. And they say hard-hitting satire is dead! Ha!
TheLetter2 - January 7, 2010
John Malone, Chairman and controlling owner of Liberty Media, is #468 on Forbes’ list of the world’s billionaires.
And its now been almost 3 full years since he swung the deal with Time Warner which because of some bizarro tax-loophole included the swap-purchase of the Atlanta Braves. It was a shotgun marriage of convenience all the way.
Maybe, someday, Malone will get around the monopoly board, realize the benefit of the deal, and be ready to unload the team to a hands-on owner that actually likes baseball.
fandave - January 6, 2010
He’s been described as the “Darth Vader of the business world.”
Chief Noc-A-Homa - January 6, 2010
here’s a great quote:
fandave - January 6, 2010
They can’t even sell the team until (I think) around the end of the 2011 season, part of the agreement with MLB letting them take ownership of the team was that they had to stay in place as owners for 4.5 years from the time of the sale.
Lennox - January 7, 2010
please let this happen in 2011 ... please sell them to a real owner...
fizzbot - January 7, 2010
I’m fuzzy on all the details (and don’t have time to research it), but that sounds like it could be right. I’m sure there was a long delay waiting for MLB approval and when it finally came, there were conditions. Also, I have in mind that the tax implications extended for a period of time into the future, which (if correct) would suggest that in all likelihood Howard would not be willing to sell until he has sucked every drop of benefit out of the deal.
fandave - January 7, 2010
MLB makes sure that when someone purchases a team, they’re not doing it just to flip it to someone else next year after making a few changes. 4.5 years is the standard, I believe.
FineHamAbounds - January 7, 2010
lower ticket prices! woohoo!
10-4 - January 6, 2010
…or an extra gluten free food bar
VivaLosBravos - January 6, 2010
sick
Scott Coleman - January 6, 2010
I actually made a comment very similar
at the very beginning of the offseason. That the Braves’ payroll would actually be lower since they had insurance covering over half of Tim Hudson’s season.
Actually, you can guesstimate just how much it was-if a full season is 32 starts. Hudson made 7 starts, so 7/32 = 21.875%. .21875* 11(ish) = 2.40625 million.
I think Hudson’s deal was worth 11 last year…so just subtract about 8.6 million from last year’s 95ish, and that puts us at about 86.4…or really close to where we are.
Bronn - January 6, 2010
The budget may be tightening
But I know other fan bases that would kill for 90-93 million dollar payrolls
axhfan - January 6, 2010
You can say that Liberty is being tight with the payroll
But I think they have reason when you consider the poor attendances we’re seen at the Ted over the last few seasons. I’m pretty sure you’ll see a steady decline over the years in the average attendance for Braves home games. Yes you can say the state of the economony plays a small part in it, but fact is, Atlanta has never really been a great baseball city.
Is it sad? yes but do I still love the Braves? you bet
SmithnCompany - January 6, 2010
*economy
SmithnCompany - January 6, 2010
Actually...
…I kind of liked the word economony, it sort of has a nice ring to it. Sadly, your main point is correct. Atlanta is not exactly a baseball town. I recall sitting in a half empty stadium in a play-off game about 8 or 9 years ago.
cavebird - January 7, 2010
Speaking of payroll
Anyone else think that we could see a trade of Adam Wainright or Chris Carpenter soon? With the Cards tying up Holliday and Pujols not to far off from being extended It would only make sense for them to cash in on the value of these two now while they still have around 2 years left on their contracts. I’m sure there are some teams out there that would be willing to deal for either of the two and give up the talent needed including young pitching.
Rangers
Dodgers
Angels
Yankees (although if they have the talent is the question)
etc.
They could at least get 1 elite pitching prospect and 1 top positional prospect. They need to get talent that will be cheap thats the only way they will be able to field a competitive team around pujols and holliday.
Of course their ownership could just open the checkbook a little more.
drumzalicious - January 7, 2010
Not going to happen.
The Cardinals spent big on Holliday to win now; no chance that they are going to move Carpenter or Wainwright. And if they did, the Dodgers wouldn’t be a suitor until the divorce is final.
cavebird - January 7, 2010
er...
i was referring to after this season. as in next offseason possibly as early as the trade deadline. They can build a whole new rotation off the guys they can get in trade.
drumzalicious - January 7, 2010
Did I hear that Liberty’s commitment is through 2011? If that is the case, then it wouldn’t surprise me to see them sell at that point considering what they are doing: keep the payroll steady and keep the fans coming out, which in turn keeps the costs down and the value of the team up—> then sell to the highest bidder.
It’s really odd that Ted Turner slowly gave up control of the team, but maybe it wasn’t in his control. It seemed like the Braves were his pride and joy at one time but maybe it was all just a game to him just like every other project he has done in the past. I’m sure just like any business man/billionaire he is out to win. Anyone suspect that he may want to get back into baseball? He doesn’t seem very eager to me.
Clearly Liberty is not out to win, they are just looking for creative ways to keep the ball club going then sell it like it’s a commodity. To them a baseball team is no different than a potato chip factory or a piece of land.
Sure would be nice if a local Atlanta billionaire would buy the team so we can get back to what sports is supposed to be about—winning a championship.
proeye - January 7, 2010
probably joking but...
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/17957285/detail.html
Doghnut - January 7, 2010
By the way… Appreciate you Gondeee for always publishing what we are all thinking. Skepticism in a writer/blogger is a good and having the balls to publish it is great.
I appreciate what Wren has done over the past few years to keep the fans interest up (albeit luke warm), but the spin every off season is really wearing on me. It’s funny that we used to call “spin” lying but I guess we live in different times.
We have not seen an increase in payroll in 10 years. It’s been held pretty steady at around $90-93 million (I forget what the average is). Considering the rate of inflation and the rate of salary increases, within a couple of years the Braves are going to fall into the bottom tier for league averages.
I’m going to have to assume that my goal of seeing the team win a World Series doesn’t match Liberty’s goal of keeping the team competitive which may also include occasionally making the playoffs because that keeps fan interest up. Making the playoffs and having a fighting chance at winning the World Series are two very different matters altogether. Look back at all the winners since 1995 when the last time the Braves won. Every winner was either a lucky young up-start team like the Marlins or a big budget team like the Yankees or Red Sox. The Braves are neither and apparently will never be as long as Liberty is around.
There are two ways to build a team: Start over every few years like the Marlins or spend a lot of money like the Yankees or Red Sox. If you are the owner of the Marlins you are going to see really bad attendance numbers and if you are the Yankees you will see 4 million fans a year but have an extreme budget. The Braves are clearly in the middle and will remain there because they cannot operate on either end of the spectrum.
So good luck in ever winning a World Series! My only hope is to see Liberty disappear once and for all and get an owner who gives a damn. To me, every off season is a disappointment because I know we only have a small chance in hell of winning the big one. Being “competitive” is not good enough for me. After those glorious 14 years of hoping and praying, what hope do we have now? At least we KNEW we were going to make the playoffs every single year, now we just hope to be “competitive”. Ugh. 2010 is going to be interesting but I’m not holding my breath.
proeye - January 7, 2010
I disagree on both of your main points.
First, getting into the playoffs is having a fighting chance at wining the World Series. After a 162-game season, the playoffs, with their relatively short format, are a crapshoot. Low payroll (Marlins), mid-payroll (D-Backs, Angels, Cardinals, White Sox), and high payroll teams (Red Sox, Yankees, Phillies) have all won the World Series in the past decade.
Thus, your theory that there are only two ways to build a team—-blow up and start over or simply spend a bunch—-is bupkis. Teams have won in all kinds of different ways. Yeah, we were spoiled by the ridiculously long winning streak, but since it was record-setting, you can’t exactly expect that to always continue.
cavebird - January 7, 2010
Well… I remember seeing the 80’s.. I was born in 75 and remember the games starting around the time I was 5 yrs old… I remember asking God if I was ever going to see the Braves win before I died. Then something happened in the 90’s… but once again… after a decade of dominance in the division.. all the sudden we find ourselves playing second fiddle for almost ten years now… I cant stand that Philly is spending more than us… Built a better a team… has plenty of talent to trade to improve… I’m tired of the Brandon Jones saga…. I love our prospects… and our pitching depth ( prospects) and the moves to reacquire what got us to where we were in 90’s… our pitching… I loved Jv just has much last year as everyone else.. but he over performed from his normal… Lowe underpreformed… I believe Lowe will bounce back… and honestly.. JV will not be has good but he will get more offense… so he will be close….we have pieces to trade (pitching prospects, a first base prospect, and several outfield prospects) minus heyward if we need to make a move to make the push… I only worry that after the Mark Tiexara trade we might be gun shy…
I like depth on the bench if we can add a veteran piece…I personally wanted Dimitri Young, but with Hinske that wont happen… I like Hinske.. But Now, we should bring in Nomar and Giles on the minor league contracts that will be offered with an invite… Nomar will help the infield.. he can play four postions in the infield incase of injuries and Giles would push our youngesters for that spot in the outfield and another power ab to pinch hit… and mix and match with match ups and days off… Giles still has decent power and decent arm and range….
Otherwise… There is only one move that makes sense….with the money left… And thats Dye…but I believe at this time we will be done making moves unless its one more lefthanded relief specialist ….
If we get out to a good start we will possibly be playing for the wild card…Unless the is an injury to the phillies pitching staff… Yes our staff is just as good .. but there offense is so much more powerful that it would take a pitching injury for us to overtake them..
Bring back the Murph to be a assistant bench coach/assistant hitting coach… otis nixon and claudell washington as baserunning coach’s…… LOL
Hell craig McCurtrey… Assistant picthing coach
rudy21usmc - January 7, 2010
i was born in '76
and i can relate to your first sentiment.
after that, however, you seem very very very confused.
there is no way, NO WAY, this team can afford to sign Giles, Nomar AND Dye. Not only that, if we did, we’d be the most brittle and defense-deficient team EVER.
As for Nomar: He can play 2B and 1B (his arm was never that strong to begin with, and with age, I doubt he plays SS or 3B). Besides, Hinske has the backup 1B and 3B roles and we have Infante for SS and 2B. We really don’t want him in the OF and his bat is nowhere near where it was (he’s good for .280/.350/.750 in limited duty, but that’s not where he was in the late ‘90s). So, it’s not going to happen.
Giles is another case where it would be nice to have, but do we need him? He’s Left-handed, so probably not what we need, but I like his bat. If he played 150 games (which he wont, but after only playing in 61 last year, he could bounce back) his numbers will be greater than his 2006-2008 stats in San Diego (while it’s a pitching park, the Ted has played neutral, meaning an increase). That would give him an approximately line of .284/.374/.900. Would we want that? YES. Put him in LF and trade Melky for anything. Possibly a AA 3B prospect. Melky to Florida for Matt Dominguez? They can afford to do it because they have Gaby Sanchez who is a MUCH better prospect right now than Dominguez and they could use Melky’s experience and speed, etc.
As for Dye. His hitting #s are still decent, but with Giles, there’s no place to play him and his D is horrid.
I would like to sign Giles to play LF, trade Melky for Dominguez and stand pat.
apoxonbothyourhouses - January 7, 2010
I can't imagine Giles every putting up those numbers again.
Given his age and decline, I wonder if he is done. Yes, Petco hurts hitters, but not to the extent that a 39-yr. old Giles would put up a .900 OPS in a neutral park.
cavebird - January 7, 2010
I grew up on the 1980's Braves...
…there were some bad teams back in the mid-late 80’s. However, we haven’t been playing second fiddle for almost ten years. We won the division title in 2005 (and every year preceding that through 1991). That was four seasons ago. Four seasons does not equal ten years by my math.
I understand your longing for the past and the Braves’ title streak. However, this does not mean it is a good idea to sign players who were last good when the Braves last won the division. Dye is horrible defensively (twice as bad as Garrett Anderson bad) and has been consistently for four years. (Maybe he stopped caring about defense when the Braves stopped winning division titles.) He would not be worth the money it would cost to sign him and he would block a more productive player because whatever he gives you with his bad, he gives back with the horrible defense. Giles does not still have decent power and the great power he used to have mysteriously disappeared around the time they started testing for steroids. A spring training invite would be harmless but pointless as he would never make the team, McLouth, Diaz, Heyward, Melky, Brandon Jones, Hinske, and Mitch Jones are all better than Giles and we can’t carry that many outfielders. Garciaparra, alas, would only help with injuries in that he would provide company on the DL for any injured players we have.
The thought of McMurtry as a pitching coach is hillarious, however. He could teach everyone to throw sidearm.
cavebird - January 7, 2010
Whoops McMurtrey
rudy21usmc - January 7, 2010
PLEASE: Does anyone know if this team will be up for sale anytime soon?
I have asked this question like 10x on here and no one seems to know the answer, it would be amazing if Blank could buy us….
Please let this happen, this would be better than drafting a Pujols for the fortunes of our team…..
fizzbot - January 7, 2010
as far as I heard
There is something like a 4 or 5 year commitment when you buy a team, required by MLB. If that’s the case, Liberty cant sell the team until 2011/2012.
Doghnut - January 7, 2010
payrollgate
Payrollgate doesn’t really bother me. It looks like we have a pretty decent team put together, one that will be competitive and one that will not hinder our minor leaguers from getting their chance. Heyward likely gets his chance this spring, Schafer gets his this summer, Freeman gets his next spring, and the pitchers get theirs as Wagner, Saito, KK, Hudson and Lowe finish their contracts. When Chipper retires we have $13 mil for a replacement. We will be loaded with low cost players and have tons of cash available for those positions not filled internally. Wren is looking like a genius to me. Braves fans should be in for a good run starting real soon.
bighop - January 7, 2010
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