The most interesting thing about the deal that sent Casey Kotchman from the Atlanta Braves to the Boston Red Sox in exchange for Adam LaRoche is what that deal says about our long term plans for first base. With Kotchman we had a plan in place, as he was under team control through the 2010 season, but with LaRoche, who can become a free agent at the end of the year, we opened up a big question mark this off-season.
A quick scan through the free agent first baseman at the end of the year, yields a depressing list of have-beens, almosts, or never weres -- light hitting 30-somethings that make Kotchman look like a power hitter. The best guy available (in terms of power stats) might be Russel Branyan, who is having his best major league season at age 33. The best all-around player of reasonable baseball age may actually be Adam LaRoche. So we just gave up a first baseman we controlled for another year for the most attractive free agent first baseman at the end of this year.
My thinking, and the thinking of many fans, is that Kotchman was the bridge to Freddie Freeman, simply a place-holder until the talented young first baseman was ready -- but a pretty decent place-holder. As Baseball American's number-11 top-prospect in all of baseball, Freeman is having a solid year after a mid-season promotion from hi-A to double-A, but most people don't think he'll be ready until 2011, or mid-2010 at the earliest. That leaves a pretty big gap, and the only likely candidate from within the organization to fill it is Barbaro Canizares -- a "prospect" who's almost the same age as LaRoche.
The most likely scenario that must be floating through the Braves' minds is to re-sign LaRoche for a season, but how agreeable does anyone think he'll be to signing a one (or even two) year deal as the best and youngest first baseman on the market in his first go-round as a free agent in his prime free agent years. This is the time in LaRoche's career where he's looking for that rainmaker contract that will take him into his mid-30s -- a three-year contract at a minimum. With the market for first basemen being what it is, he's bound to get that. And that presumably leaves the Braves worse off for next season than they would have been had they not made the trade.
I know some people will suggest that the team may plan to move Chipper Jones over to first, but that presents two problems: (1) who plays third, and (2) what do you do with Freeman when he's knocking on the major league door in a year. Aside from the currently injured Troy Glaus, the 2010 free agent options at third base look just as bad as the first base options. Let's rule that Chipper-to-first scenario out.
We seem to be left with hoping to re-sign LaRoche to a non-long-term deal, or handing the job over to the love-child ghost of Julio Franco and Scott Thorman. If it's the latter, next year we'll be asking ourselves why we're not getting any offense out of first base, just like we asked oursleves why we weren't getting offense out of the outfield in the first half of this season.
On the surface, I like the move to try and get more power out of first base this year by acquiring LaRoche. Though, I would have been happy to stand pat and stay with Kotchman for another year. It seems that behind it all the Braves may have tired of Kotchman, and may have also long-desired to have LaRoche back. When they saw the opportunity to swap with Boston they took it, with the thought that they'll worry about who will be next year's first baseman this off-season. I'm sure this is only the first of many articles that we'll be seeing asking that very same question.
0 recs | 176 comments
Nice write-up
You asked the exact questions that I have been asking myself. It is very curious. My only guess is that the FO was/is banking on a typical Laroche 2nd half. If he can produce at his typical 2nd half rate, this will be a move made to win it all this season – kind of like the Tex deal, but not nearly as sexy.
If they are shooting for the moon right now, it makes me wonder about the future plans for Vaz…maybe trade him during the offseason for the 1B we would then lack?
justincredubil02 - August 3, 2009
Can’t Prado play first base?
blitzerlover - August 3, 2009
Not enough power long term. Same issue as Kotchman.
gondeee - August 3, 2009
Wouldn’t he be better than Barbaro?
blitzerlover - August 3, 2009
If it's the same issue...
Are we any worse off?
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
completely agree
if KJ can perform well, then start him at second and move Prado over to first. He’s looked fantastic there defensively in his fairly small amount of time there and if he’s capable of posting an .820+ OPS (which I think he is), then we at least get a good glove and a pretty decent bat there for a year until Freeman is ready (hopefully). Another option might be Nick Johnson.
was385 - August 3, 2009
But Kotch was a stop gap solution...
why can’t Prado?
I still like the idea of letting Canizares getting a chance to prove his career .300+ can carry over to the bigs and maybe bring something from an AL club in return. But the mention of Glaus is interesting, and since he’s coming off an arm injury perhaps he’d be 1B instead of Chipper.
Mr. Sanchez - August 3, 2009
Chipper to first, Prado to third, KJ starts at second? That was my first thought for next year. But i’m not sure how good Prado is at 3rd defensively though.
dlkinser86 - August 3, 2009
I don't think
Prado and Kelly Johnson will both be on the team next year.
Dandrews - August 3, 2009
Why not?
Combined, they won’t cost that much.
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
prob
because one will be traded. for who? i dont know
drumzalicious - August 3, 2009
Why would you switch Chipper if you were starting those three?
As for Prado, UZR suggests he’s best at 1st (well above average), then 3rd (slightly above average, better than Chipper’s this year), then 2nd (where he’s atrocious.
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
man.
as much as i love chipper. i wish we could switch to the AL for the next 3 years of that contract so he can DH and not miss time.
Just put Prado at 3rd and Conrad at 2B
drumzalicious - August 3, 2009
Haha...
I’d still be upset to see a DH every game. And you’re crazy if you think Conrad is a better option than KJ after 53 career PAs.
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
You need to take your head out of your backside, obviously
3 bad months is a MUCH better indicator of someone’s talent than 2 good years. Didn’t your teacher ever tell that 3 > 2? Sheesh.
buzzdeadwax - August 3, 2009
He wasn’t even bad in May, thats the funny part…its really only 2 bad months.
bigjoe - August 3, 2009
I was lazy and didn’t look at the stats. In addition, I don’t completely understand UZR. Seeing this, move Prado to 1st if we don’t trade him or KJ.
dlkinser86 - August 3, 2009
2 Words... Greg Norton.
Obviously, I kid. The only thing I could figure when this trade happened is that the organization was banking on FF to be ready at the start of next season.
Bmacbandwagon - August 3, 2009
The Curious Case of Mike Benjamin
I guess they really like Barbaro. At least this frees up some salary for next year, no chance we re-sign LaRoche.
TradeAndruw - August 3, 2009
I wouldn't say there's no chance...
But we’ll certainly have competition.
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
hmm
me thinks all efforts should go to re-signing Soriano.
Our biggest competition will prob be the Cubs/Rays
drumzalicious - August 3, 2009
Right. We don’t need to be playing highest bidder on a guy like LaRoche. Our first priority should be Soriano (and Gonzalez if he shows improvement, perhaps even if he doesn’t). Gondeee makes a good point about Adam being the best FA 1st baseman this off season. That’s something I wasn’t aware of and sort of startling. It’s going to prove to be a dumb trade if we don’t make the post-season…
Gage23 - August 3, 2009
$$
Soriano will probably be at least $18M/2, plus an option for a third.
Do you really think it’s a good idea to tie that much money up in a fragile relief arm?
Yakker - August 4, 2009
Purely speculation, but I think the Braves hope they can resign Roachie to a 1 or 2 year deal until Freeman is ready, or maybe a 3 or 4 year deal with the intention of trading him after the first 2 years if he’s blocking Freeman. But if Adam goes elsewhere, I suspect Prado at 1B is the backup plan, with the Braves hoping Freeman will be ready by June of 2010 at least.
Rhyno18 - August 3, 2009
I hear we’ve been kicking the tires on Pujols.
TradeAndruw - August 3, 2009
If only if only
eaheckman10 - August 3, 2009
hmm
if only indeed
no more freeman. he would def be gone. as would half our minor leaguer pitchers.
prob
Freeman
Jurrjens
KJ
4 our better pitching prospects in the minors
2 of the better position prospects in the minors
drumzalicious - August 3, 2009
A few scouts STL way?
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
Crazy idea
What about sticking McCann at 1st base and David Ross at full-time cathcer until Freeman gets called up? BTW – I only see this as a realistic option if we are confident that Freeman can get called up in June/July.
Pros:
- David Ross stats for 2009: 281 .384 .531 .915
- David Ross has 6 HRs in only 113 plate appearances (compare this to Kotchman)
- Lessens McCann’s wear and tear from playing catcher to 1/2 year
- 1B is the least important fielding position so McCann should be able to suffice in short term
Cons:
- McCann’s All-star appearances streak at Catcher would end
- Could hurt McCann’s “defensive development” at Catcher
- McCann would have to spend significant time learning how to play 1B
- Ross is old and probably can’t play 4-5 times a week
There’s probably a lot more “cons” I’m forgetting. This probably won’t happen because McCann would be against it (he loves playing catcher), but it might be best for the team.
Dandrews - August 3, 2009
Ross is having quite a season backing up Brian, however, I highly doubt anyteam in the MLB would chance him being their everyday backstop…
bwellnjonesco - August 3, 2009
How about..
Having D Ross play first instead of moving Mac
BeantownVol - August 3, 2009
this
Bmacbandwagon - August 3, 2009
Why?
esadb - August 3, 2009
sounds pretty reasonable to me. It won’t happen, but I still wouldn’t mind seeing it.
Bmacbandwagon - August 3, 2009
That's better than the other way around.
Probably worth noting he hasn’t played there in 10 years, though.
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
1B is in no way the least important defensive position.
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
I think most would disagree....
- It’s not tough to catch a baseball being thrown straight at you.
- You need 0 speed to play the position, unlike the outfield.
- Where else would you play David Ortiz when he has to play the field?
Dandrews - August 3, 2009
“It’s not tough to catch a baseball being thrown straight at you.”
Well what about when its not thrown straight at you and its in the dirt or its thrown high?
“You need 0 speed to play the position, unlike the outfield.”
Technically if you had 0 speed you still couldn’t play first lol.
“Where else would you play David Ortiz when he has to play the field?”
Yeah and he is flat out horrible and would cost his team more runs than he would help them if he had to start there every single game. A game here and there is fine he can get by(like when he played first in the world series in the NL park or interleague play) but he wouldn’t get by starting everyday at 1B i guarantee you that.
rockybull - August 3, 2009
Then name the least important fielding position and why.
Dandrews - August 3, 2009
Dandrews
I would say LF. You can be a so so defender, without a good arm. In my opinion a team with a awful defensive LF is not gonna kill a team as bad as a a team with an awful defensive 1B. A LF may have how many plays to make? Could have alot, but for the most part they dont have near as many plays as a 1B has to make so you can hide the bad LF to a certain degree. A 1B could have a play in any givin circumstance(pitchouts included in that). I would much rather have a awful defender in LF than 1B. If you dont agree(which you dont) then fine this is just my opinion.
rockybull - August 3, 2009
Its definitely 1B, because thats where the smallest gap between best defender and worst defender is. Theres a 3 win difference over a full season between David DeJesus & Jason Bay, while the gap between Ryan Howard (legit the best defensive 1B in baseball this year…pinch me) and Nick Johnson is about 1 win.
bigjoe - August 3, 2009
I agree with you.
1B is the position most likely to be involved on any given play.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
it does recquire skill
but first base is the least important defensive position other than pitcher I guess. The dropoff between really good an average imo is significantly less than any other position.
was385 - August 3, 2009
I would say LF but thats just me.
rockybull - August 3, 2009
see Garrett Anderson
I think the amount of balls he doesn’t get to or balls that should be singles tat turn into extra base hits end up doing a lot more damage to a team than the missed plays an awful first baseman would make. Even the best first basemen don’t have really good range (relative to other positions), otherwise they wouldn’t be playing first.
was385 - August 3, 2009
Not exactly a fair comparison.
You’re letting your emotions rule your perspective, IMO. If we had had an Anderson-level 1B here of late, you’d probably feel the same way.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
Please, please, please, I never want to hear the name Scott Thorman again, as long as I live
Zeus12888 - August 3, 2009
The god of thunder beseeches you. lol
mad_dog_maddux - August 3, 2009
FWIW...
He is having a great season for the KC Braves’ AAA team.
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
And so will Francoeur next year.
The Keith Lockhart Era - August 3, 2009
LOL.
He might still struggle to make contact against AAA guys.
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
Then he gets demoted...
And absolutely rakes AA pitching!!!
The Keith Lockhart Era - August 3, 2009
And would then get called up after two days there.
Because, of course, he’d be cured.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
This.
And don’t forget how much he’d bitch about it.
The Keith Lockhart Era - August 4, 2009
I didn’t understand the trade when it happened and I still don’t understand it. The only thing that makes since is freeing up salary and letting our 19 year old cuban prospect bridge the gap to Freeman saving us money for the next year or two. What sucks is Kotchman is one hell of a first baseman def. wise and he is not going to get hardly any playing time in Boston.
The Braves will have to fill LF, RF, Bull Pen, and 1st. It just seems like they are trying to free up as much money as possible.
That a boy - August 3, 2009
Wait.
um.
We have LF covered.
Schafer getting healthy with that wrist should put him back in at least league average condition. there for we can put him in CF and nate in LF
drumzalicious - August 3, 2009
Which Cuban is that?
Also, the OF should be set with McLouth, Schafer, and Church.
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
Barbaro
He is referring to the futures game where they said he was 19.
Also im banking on Heyward being in that OF next year.
drumzalicious - August 3, 2009
especially if we miss the play offs
the FO will not take another losing season. we saw them take the plunge on Schafer so i wouldnt be surprised to see them do it again.
drumzalicious - August 3, 2009
Aha
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
I doubt that the Braves are putting all their chips in on Schafer, once again he had very few ab’s in AA and he has missed significant time again this year. Also, Church is a FA at the end of thus leaving us with the same situation we had last ?? marks is our outfield corners.
That a boy - August 3, 2009
Church is arb eligible. He’ll have two more years after this one if we want to tender him a contract.
garriscp - August 3, 2009
Hmmm...
Ryan Church returns as 4th OF, insurance on Heyward and Schafer, and they see if Diaz can take the 1B job for a year?
Mr. Sanchez - August 3, 2009
His bat isn't consistent enough (power or not) to play at first.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
and Prado/Kotchman are? Just a thought.
You’ve got McLouth, Schafer, Heyward in the OF with Church capable of backing up all 3, Chipper, Yunel, KJ/Prado/Infante across the IF, and McCann behind the plate, then the other bench players besides Church can play 1B by committee—Diaz, Prado, Infante, Canizares. Not ideal, but you’re just waiting on Freeman.
Mr. Sanchez - August 4, 2009
add Ross to Diaz, Prado, Infante, Canizares at 1B. A 5 headed beast.
Mr. Sanchez - August 4, 2009
...
Because the fact that Infante’s never played first and Ross has a whopping five games of professional experience there (10 years ago, by the way) doesn’t matter.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
Yes.
Kotchman and Prado get on base consistently. Church does not exactly.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
I was never referring to...
Church as 1B, only as 4th OF. It was Diaz as 1B.
Mr. Sanchez - August 4, 2009
I misspoke, sorry.
I meant Diaz.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
I think you answered your own question....
- Good defense at 1st base is not valued very highly.
- The Angels, Braves, and now the Red Sox seem to view Kotchman as more of a back-up 1B, not a starter.
Dandrews - August 3, 2009
How do the Angels and Braves veiw Kotch as a backup???
The Angels traded him because they were getting Tex. We traded him, presumably, for a power upgrade.
justincredubil02 - August 3, 2009
When you trade someone in their prime.....
that is under control cheaply for the next 2.5 years in exchange for 3 months of another player who plays the same position that is a free agent after the season, you obviously don’t think very highly of the former.
Dandrews - August 3, 2009
When you are getting a better player in return, this argument doesn’t fly.
So, if the Dodgers traded Rafael Furcal for Elvis Andrus, does that mean that the Dodgers think Furcal is only a 2nd string SS now?
justincredubil02 - August 3, 2009
did the dodgers do that? Is Elvis Andrus a 3-month rental? Is Furcal team-controlled pretty cheaply for the next 2.5 years? I don’t necessarily agree with his logic, but you’re trying to disprove it by completely changing his argument.
was385 - August 4, 2009
No, but the Angels did. Which is the case in point here.
justincredubil02 - August 4, 2009
They did?
I wasn’t aware Furcal or Andrus was ever on the Angels roster.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
don’t be asinine.
justincredubil02 - August 4, 2009
I wouldn't say he's being asinine
You’re attacking a straw man here
was385 - August 5, 2009
...because LaRoche is a stud prospect rookie?
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
No, but Tex was the best hitting 1B on the market when he went to the Angels and Laroche is a significant power upgrade for the Braves in a season in which they desperately lack any power.
justincredubil02 - August 4, 2009
Good news
is, in theory, 1B is the easiest position to fill. But creating a hole for no apparent reason is just mystifying to me. I’m sure FW had a reason for the trade, I just hope it didn’t have to do with post-ASB splits.
Yakker - August 3, 2009
How about career numbers?
LaRoche is a better overall hitter and has MUCH more power. Those are facts.
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
How about fielding?
Kotchman is a better overall fielder and was signed for the extra year needed to bridge to Freeman. Those are also facts.
And since you seem to be so interested in facts, here are some more for you. WARs since 2007:
LaRoche: 4.8
Kotchman: 4.5
Again, creating a hole for no apparent reason.
Yakker - August 4, 2009
Yes, because the Pirates gave LaRoche tons of support in the lineup.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
And we have given Kotchman much more?
justincredubil02 - August 4, 2009
Yes.
And you’d be hard-pressed to say that half a year in the Angels’ lineup+a year in the Braves’ has had better support than the Pirates’ over the last year and a half.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
When you evaluate Kotchman’s numbers with LAA, you may want to consider that he suffered from the after effects of mono for almost 1.5 years.
Yakker - August 5, 2009
Stick Connie at first until Freeman is ready.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - August 3, 2009
He has played 5 games there this year in Gwinnett.
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
Hmmm...
Maybe an offseason trade makes the most sense…
ejruiz - August 3, 2009
doubt it.
or rather i hope not.
would love to keep Javy around
Wish someone would take Lowe lol
drumzalicious - August 3, 2009
Mark Bowman’s article on Braves site:
Quotes from the write up of the game on Saturday (we won).
Maybe Chipper didn’t get the memo. LOL
NCChopper - August 3, 2009
I think Chipper gets to make his own memos
If they don’t gel with the front office, it’s Rock-em Sock-em Robots best 2 out of 3.
The Keith Lockhart Era - August 3, 2009
Atleast we have David Ross for next year maybe the Braves will allow him to play first base; He has the most power on the team and sees the field twice a month. They can use Barbaro Canizares when McCann needs a break unless McCann wants to play first but that might get ugly.
RWH2 - August 3, 2009
Jones has said he doesn't want to play 1B.
Worried about the strain on his feet.
Also, any reason Prado was not mentioned? His defense is 100X better there than at second. Do you not think Johnson will prove to be an answer at 2B?
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
yea
Chip has said that 1B is harder because its involved in every play.
Also i’m not sold on KJ being in the lineup everyday yet
drumzalicious - August 3, 2009
That makes sense
he doesn’t want to be playing a pos thats rougher on his body. He seems to always be battling small, nagging injuries – no need to add to it.
RJ87 - August 5, 2009
Hmm
Call me crazy but I wouldnt be surprised to see Freeman and Heyward starting next year.
The both of them did very good in Spring Training and have just continued to do well at the lower levels.
Everyone talks about how great Heyward is but IMO Freeman isnt that far behind the kid hits in basically every game and not to mention the fact that he is a doubles MACHINE!!
They both show great plate discipline and dont strike out like crazy. Yes Heyward has a little more power coming off his bat than freeman but neither one are really tearing it up HR wise.
I think they might be looking at Freeman as Kotchman with more power. The guy is already said to have great defense and he hits the gaps well. Sounds exactly like Kotchman and he will be a lot cheaper.
Heyward will def be knocking at the door in ST forcing Diaz and Church into LF. Hopefully we will part ways with Church because of Schafer being ready
Heres to a roster/lineup of
LF McLouth
2B Prado
3B Chip
C Mac
RF Heyward
SS Escobar
1B Freeman
CF Schafer
W00T!!! lol
drumzalicious - August 3, 2009
That's depending a lot on rookies.
Do you really see the Braves doing that?
parish - August 3, 2009
Schafer, Jordan?
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
yes.
Especially if we miss the play offs.
Even then we wont have a stop gapper in there long because at the rate those two are playing they will destroy AAA just as much. The organization will essentially have no choice. I mean if they stink up ST then by all means send them down but i dont see that happening the way they played this year in ST and that was before they even saw AA
drumzalicious - August 3, 2009
If Heyward wins the job...
Diaz and Church will be seeing a lot of bench.
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
I think
church will be gone. Diaz will stay as a RH Bench guy. But i would expect them to ship out Church and save some money
drumzalicious - August 3, 2009
I’m still all for taking our time with those guys if we possibly can. I still can’t get the images of Logan getting mowed down earlier this year out of my head.
Bravely going forward - August 3, 2009
There are those who suggest those struggles were entirely injury-related.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
well.
if you look at when the struggles happened in relation to when he was injured it makes sense.
drumzalicious - August 4, 2009
...the whole season?
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
except for
the fact that he started of the season great and reportedly got injured within the first week of the regular season. as i recall he was very good that first week
drumzalicious - August 4, 2009
but we’ll never know because it was such a small sample size, right?
Bravely going forward - August 4, 2009
Offer LaRoche arbitration
I think at the very least we’ll offer LaRoche arbitration. If he accepts, we have a Freeman stop gap for 1 year. If he doesn’t accept, which he likely won’t as he probably wants a multi-year deal, we’ll get compensation picks.
I’m fine with starting Prado at 1B for the first half of next season, then bringing Freeman up mid-season if he’s not ready off the bat.
Whatever we do, I don’t think we’ll see a trade for a 1B in the offseason….certainly, not for someone like Javy. Why make a trade for a big-name 1B when we have Freeman almost ready?
coldriver10 - August 3, 2009
Wrong word?
I’m not sure if arbitration was the word I was looking for there, but you get the point.
coldriver10 - August 3, 2009
LaRoche still has to hit his way into compensation.
I do think taking him to arbitration wouldn’t be a bad thing.
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
Not a bad idea
There are plenty of intangible reasons why he’d stay, or he goes the route of seeking the payout.
royhobbs - August 3, 2009
Uhhh, you guys are missing a huge point about this trade. Casey is going to enter arbitration for the first time next year and the Braves were likely not going to pay him what he would’ve won from the arbitration case. In fact, he was likely going to be non-tendered and lost anyway. There is always a chance that we can talk Laroche into a short term deal because of his ties with this ball club. Either way Laroche is merely a stop gap for Freddie Freeman.
And if we can’t resign Laroche and Freeman isn’t ready, which is likely, we could use Prado at first and KJ at second for next year.
pancanbra - August 3, 2009
I doubt they would have non-tendered him.
But he certainly looks a good bit different as a player on a $4-5 million deal rather than $1.8 mil.
MichaelProcton - August 3, 2009
Agreed,
The Keith Lockhart Era - August 3, 2009
I think you’re right on all counts.
VivaLosBravos - August 3, 2009
Uh, Kotchman signed a $2.8 MM deal to avoid arbitration before the season.
Lennox - August 3, 2009
$2.9, actually.
Whoops. Yeah, he’ll definitely get $5 mil or more next year.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
Adam LaRoche, Nick Johnson, Russell Branyan, and Troy Glaus are all FA’s who could play 1B for us next year. None of them are getting big contracts, one year up to 5 million dollars will get us one of those guys. Glaus and Johnson could be more incentive based due to injury risk
McCann's the Man - August 3, 2009
LOL
$5M/1 for any much less all of these guys seems highly unlikely.
Yakker - August 4, 2009
Yeah since it’s not like Bobby Abreu didn’t just sign that deal this past offseason. I’d say at this point he’s comparable, above average hitter and bad defender. I think LaRoche and possibly Branyan are the only two that could hope to get more. Nobody’s shelling out money for Nick Johnson’s constant injury risk status and Glaus is coming off major surgery, he’ll get far less than 5 million
McCann's the Man - August 4, 2009
Sure, whatever. No point in arguing about it, time will tell.
Yakker - August 4, 2009
I miss McGriff. He was the man.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - August 3, 2009
I used to helicopter my swing in little league because of him...
But I batted like Chipper.
The Keith Lockhart Era - August 3, 2009
Sign...
LaRoche to a 3 year deal….Give Freeman an outfielders glove to see if he can play put there.
mikie baseball - August 3, 2009
…yeah, thats a great idea. cough.
bigjoe - August 3, 2009
You really...
should do something about that cough. Let’s see… the original post suggests that the best available first baseman during the off season may, in fact be, LaRoche.There are many who suggest that Freeman,will not be Major League ready next spring. Other suggestions here have certainly been less logical( ie D.Ross, Matty D.) than resigning LaRoche, who is an ideal mid-small market player in terms of salary and offensive production.As to the suggestion that giving a 19 year old a glove to play the outfield,why is that so outrageous? That has never been done before?Baseball history is wrought with examples of that. It may increase his value over time.If successful, wont that help the Braves who have been lacking in prospects to fill the shoes of corner outfielders? Please take some cough medicine…..BTW, you are probably right that LaRoche isnt the player Mantle was. Was the Mick any good? Growing up not too far from the Stadium,I only got to see him play a couple of dozen times,so you are probably right that his stats are better than Adam’s.
mikie baseball - August 4, 2009
I am a little confused at how converting Ross to 1B is less logical than resigning Laroche to an expensive 3 year deal and converting our future 1B to an OF when we already have an solid OF for the future (McLouth, Schafer, Heyward).
justincredubil02 - August 4, 2009
Sure, I will...
give it a try.Unless there is some stat to prove my eyes,and what is generally accepted, wrong…LaRoche is the far better hitter of the two. Since we will be attempting to win next year, it would seem that we might want to consider that. I do agree that we need a right -handed bat in the lineup,if that is your point. Nor am I suggesting we overpay for Adam’s bat, but that is a front office consideraton. Sure a 1 or 2 year contract might be better, but we are talking about a player who produces 75% of a Texeria,at a quarter of the cost.
As to the outfield of the future, I hope you are right. Are you positive about Shafer(correctly spelled?)? If you are right about him, then the worst thing that happens is you either prove or disprove that Freeman cannot play the outfield.If you are wrong you have Freeman in left and LaRoche playing first base.You can never have enough options in baseball. hope this answers your questions
mikie baseball - August 4, 2009
I get your rational behind your idea, but I still fail to see how it is any more logical than simply moving Ross to 1B. You called it a more logical idea. I see it as a more complex idea with higher reward, but much higher risk.
justincredubil02 - August 4, 2009
The higher risk....
being? That after a couple of years,Freeman cannot move back to first, at the ripe old age of 22,and Laroche traded or left unsigned?I am not suggesting that we convert an outfielder to second or short, which is a far more difficult transition. Braun, was a corner infielder, so is Blanks. Sorianno played the infield. Heck even Chipper moved out there. David Ross is a good back up catcher with some power.He also showed that he might be able to hit 20 HRS in a ballpark like Cincy over a full year.That said he is a 220 career batter.We hardly know what his defensive liabilities are at first base. So yes, logical seems the correct choice of words. I am unsure if my suggestion is more complex.
mikie baseball - August 4, 2009
The higher risk is that you ruin Freeman’s developement, Laroche’s contract handcuffs us and 3 or 4 years down the road, we are right back where we started.
justincredubil02 - August 4, 2009
By having a guy ....
shagging a few fly balls, you ruin his developement? Handcuff us 3 years down the road by a more than adequate player, who we just traded for to help us? The transition from the infield to the outfield has been done on the Major League level without ruining anyone several times.Let alone trying it at AA for a few months, ah,nvm…….
mikie baseball - August 4, 2009
No. Moving him temporarily to the OF at this stage of his development will potentially ruin him. That is several years (3 presumably) that we are talking about.
Also, a big contract at a position we were not planning on paying a ton of money to would handcuff our FO. There is no denying that. Laroche will be the hottest FA 1B on the market. He will command quite a paycheck, that quite frankly, he is not worth. We need to spend our money eslewhere on better players (Soriano, temporary LF/RF fix, etc).
Sure, switching positions has been done before. How many times have those same players switched back successfully though? We will not need Freeman in the OF in 2 years. We will have Logan, Nate and Heyward. Freeman needs to remain at 1B.
Shuffling everyone around is a very shortsighted move. Don’t take the eyes off the prize and try to fix the temporary holes. Stick to the long-term plan and let the other things work themselves out.
justincredubil02 - August 4, 2009
See Ryan Klesko?
Mr. Sanchez - August 4, 2009
Bingo.
justincredubil02 - August 4, 2009
Klesko...
actually produced, in both LF and when he switched back to 1B later in his career. Not sure that is the example you want.
Mr. Sanchez - August 4, 2009
Logan?
Who’s Logan?
;)
coldriver10 - August 4, 2009
Just for your information...
Almost every player you listed was terrible defensively in the OF. And suggesting that a player who has played nothing but catcher for the last nine years would not be a defensive liability would also be a bit silly.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
I did ...
mean to imply they were defensive specialists, but merely servicable. However, that should not be a deterrient to giving the idea a shot and term it complex, or snicker at its viability.
mikie baseball - August 4, 2009
I am not snickering at anything. I am merely pointing out that your idea is no more logical than just putting Ross at 1B. A lot of moving parts (resigning Laroche, paying him tons of money, moving Freeman to the OF along with Heyward, Schafer and McLouth, then moving him back to 1B after 3 years) is the very definition of complex. Complex isn’t a ridicule of your post. It isn’t a negative word.
Just admit that it would probably be easier and cheaper to have Ross play 1B than it would resigning Laroche and moving Freeman to the OF.
BTW, I am not in favor of either of these proposals.
justincredubil02 - August 4, 2009
I was not suggesting it was you...
that was snickering. I will admit that moving Ross is cheaper. Is that what you want? Even one of the clan here stated it was a silly thing to suggest it might be without a defensive lapse. Baseball is not rocket science ,and merely moving a player on a trial basis for a period of time from fielding ground balls to catching pop ups will not set back his career. Nor am I being short sighted in creating some versatility for a player. La Roche is a very reasonably priced,productive hitter , who could surely help us get the prize next year while waiting for a potential player. As I pointed out, he certainly has more offensive prowess than Ross.BTW…I think both my ides are good one’s given that the writer of this blog seemed to think LaRoche would be the best free agent available at that position this winter. I am not married to this idea, but given the altenatives it has merit.
mikie baseball - August 4, 2009
Cheap is relatively important.
You may or may not have noticed, but we are run as a corporate line item on a defined budget. Also, if you think LaRoche is going to be “reasonably priced,” take a look at what the #1 1B on the market has netted the last few years.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
well call me crazy, but I was the only one who was discussing this with you, so I only logically assumed you were referring to me.
And sure, there will be a defensive lapse…probably no larger than the defensive lapse of putting a guy who has never played OF in the OF.
Laroche is reasonably priced…this season. He is a F/A and will be the best FA 1B on the market this offseason. He more than likely will want a multiyear contract with a big paycheck, seeing as this will probably be the biggest payday of his career.
I have no problem signing the best FA on the market, but when he isn’t really a top 15 player at his position, he will be blocking our future 1B, and we have more cheap internal solutions (ones that will not produce much less than Laroche), I’d rather save my money and put it to use where it is more needed.
justincredubil02 - August 4, 2009
and put Schafer...
…at second base!
Yay!
coldriver10 - August 3, 2009
Catcher.
McCann could move to first to take the strain away.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
Can he....
play second?
Yay!
mikie baseball - August 4, 2009
I bet he can! He is only 20-something. Baseball is a game full of instances where young guys were converted to …ah, nvm.
justincredubil02 - August 4, 2009
Next year
All kinds of plans and line-ups for next year, but nary a mention of Garret Anderson. Last fall I suggested him as a cost-effective option for LF. I was dismissed by all the free spenders of other people’s money who thought the Braves could ante up for the likes of Adam Dunn. After missing much of Spring Training due to injury, Anderson was lambasted on this board almost daily. But he has quietly earned his way into the middle of the line-up, and I hope the Braves will offer him reasonable terms to return in 2010. He is a proven hitter of major league pitching, lefthanders and righthanders.
Jordan Schafer? If and when the kid eliminates the hole in his swing that resulted in so many K’s with the Braves, then let him fight it out with Matt Diaz and, if he’s still around, Ryan Church for the fourth outfielder spot. All he has proven so far is that he is a fine defensive outfielder.
Adam LaRoche is smart enough to figure out that with future all-star Jason Heyward in right field next year, the Braves are likely to return to the post-season. Adam would be well advised to earn a one year extension with the Braves, and hope the economy improves by Fall of 2010. He could build his value with a winning team, while Freddie Freeman, presently age 19, sharpens his skills in Gwinnett..
JimK - August 3, 2009
Anderson is a decent player…but with Church and Diaz both arb. eligible, I don’t know that they’d really want to bring him back.
Schafer has dealt with a very serious injury for most of the year. Not saying that was the only problem, but it was one of the problems.
“Building value” is all well and good, but the odds LaRoche takes a one-year deal seem very low to me.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
Agree with the Prado to 1B crowd. Wasn’t something that even crossed my mind at the deadline.
l0stnumber - August 3, 2009
Realistically....
The Braves were just tired of Kotchman. BC was tired of having to manage around what he perceived as Kotchman’s shortcomings. The entire team was tired of Kotchman’s passive locker room persona. Frank Wren was tired of listening to everyone complain. Once a player gets on Bobby’s bad side, the clock is ticking. Plus, the temptation to re-acquire Adam LaRoche for what Bobby believes is a possible pennant run was too much to resist. That’s the ‘why’ part.
Here’s what won’t happen:
And here’s what’s fairly obvious:
Messenger - August 3, 2009
LaRoche isn’t a type B yet and he would have to play out of his mind to reach A, so Wren may not even have to offer him anything but let him walk and say thank you. And wouldn’t doubt the Braves letting Freeman start with the big club next year, why not??
That a boy - August 3, 2009
LaRoche should just be resigned on a 2yr deal !!
Hey it is apparent that Bobby & Frank both dig LaRoche so offer him a $10mil 2yr deal an if he wants more let him walk an get someone else. My biggest concern is that everyone is rushing Heyward an Freeman to the Majors and the last thing I want is another Frenchy type setup for either of our young guns.
I mean after this week we will be done for the year anyway so we might as well discuss next year.
Go Braves !!!
Holty_Panthers_Fan - August 3, 2009
I really wish people on this on here would stop comparing Frenchy to Heyward and Freeman for that matter. Neither one of our top prospects strike out at a high clip and they know how to take a walk. Frenchy has always been the same and it was just a matter of time before teams figured out how to pitch to him.
That a boy - August 3, 2009
very true
the impending disaster was foreshadowed
Titansfan9 - August 3, 2009
+a million
And beyond K rates, just look at overall productivity, particularly OPS marks.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
thank you!
VivaLosBravos - August 4, 2009
Questions with that
First of all, why would LaRoche sign a two-year $10 million contract when he’s already making $7 million this year and he’s going to be the best first baseman on the FA board at age 29? This is Adam’s chance to secure his family’s future, and he will probably never be in this kind of leveraged negotiating position again. He can make more then you are suggesting, and for longer. And why would Frank Wren want LaRoche for two more years at that kind of money anyway (more than that, realistically) when Wren already has the #11 prospect in all of major league baseball playing 1b and hitting .300 at AA?
Answer – this isn’t going to happen. Wren will let LaRoche walk, and he will use that money to address other needs like the closer and possibly LF (i.e., if Schafer doesn’t step up).
You said your biggest concern is “everyone rushing Freeman and Heyward”. In the first place, they obviously aren’t being rushed. Both of them are handling AA pitching without any problems at the age of 19, and neither is striking out much. Secondly, who is “everyone”? These decisions are being made by Wren and his staff. And based on the evidence, and it looks like they are moving these kids up the ladder at the right pace. These are two exceptional young prospects, and they have hit like crazy at every level.
You are clearly right about one thing, though. The Braves are done for 2009.
.
Messenger - August 4, 2009
two words for you: Hank Blalock
armymen - August 3, 2009
three letters for you:
OBP
was385 - August 4, 2009
i like the idea of mac @ 1st and Ross catching
geapsquash - August 3, 2009
You do know McCann's bat turns average at 1B, right?
As opposed to arguably the best at the position in the majors.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
freeman
Who says we keep him at all maybe we use him as trade bait for someone they really want .
~~banditwolf~~ - August 4, 2009
Like who? Unless it’s for a helluva 1st baseman we control for next 3-5 years, I doubt we trade Freeman.
Scott Coleman - August 4, 2009 via mobile
didnt you hear
apparently we are pursuing A-Gonz this offseason.
drumzalicious - August 4, 2009
if that were true
it would change everything.
MoBrave - August 4, 2009
we’re persuing AGON this season? since when? there is absolutely nothing on TC, AJC, Braves.com, MLBTR, etc etc etc. about that.
Scott Coleman - August 4, 2009
LaRoche...
Is LaRoche going to be a Type B free agent and if so is there any possibility of him being a Type A Free Agent?
braves077 - August 4, 2009
He's not as of the moment.
But he was pretty close, so if he hits well over the next few months, he could garner Type B. However, A status is pretty much out of the question.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
RE: subject of switching from IF to OF and back, from way up there^
I remember Chipper going from third base to the OF, then coming back to third base as sharp as he was before he left to play OF.
I am not saying we need to do that, just that it can be done, with the right players.
HEYJUDE - August 4, 2009
however
the original idea was to put Freeman in the OF.
Where would he play? McLouth in LF, Schafer in CF, and Heyward in RF. . . .
drumzalicious - August 4, 2009
He was also pretty bad in LF, a very easy position to play.
MichaelProcton - August 4, 2009
he was also already an established player, not learning the ins and outs of professional baseball.
justincredubil02 - August 4, 2009
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