its a tie for me. its between the Burke HR in 2005 or my beloved Arizona Wildcats blowing a 17 point lead against Illinois with 4 minutes to go in the 2003 Great 8.
This game was on Bobby. When the game was tied up, Lowe should have been pulled. This game was like a highlighter for Bobby’s biggest fault throughout the years.
i knew i wasnt crazy! i thought i really was going crazy when the Mets scored 8 runs earlier tonight…actually, i was going crazy, but i swore i saw it from Freeman too. I even looked and i posted it in game thread.
Its weird tho cause in that inning, Freeman tripled with 1 out. Then the 5th hitter hit a sac fly and scored Freeman…but then the inning ended without a 3rd out. Hmmm…maybe someone was sippin a little bit in the press box in Mississippi? Alcohol in the heat can be very dangerous
This game is a prime example of why I've turned on Bobby this year
Fans: Bobby! Lowe’s clearly hurting out there. That callus, combined with the hit to the glove-hand, he’s out of his game. He’s given up two hits, and he keeps looking back here! Shouldn’t you pull him? Bobby: Ehhhhh, we already had to burn Marty, and Roachy’s in there already, so I can’t afford to remove Lowey, with the pitchey spot up nexty…
/Derek Lowe gives up RBI hits to Gary Sheffield and Jeff Francoeur to cut the lead to one.
Fans: Bobby! Jeff Francoeur got a hit Lowe’s hurt! You have to get him out of there! Bobby: Ehhhh, Lowey’s already got one out, see? He got Murphy out, he can get two more! I don’t want to have to relieve him, only to have to have a pinch-hittey start of the next inney!
/Fernando Tatis singles to bring in the tying run in Jeff Francoeur.
Fans: Bobby, it’s a tie game now. Lowe can’t take much more of this. If you pull him now, we can still come back! Oliver Perez is off, we can still come back from this! Bobby: Ehhhhh….
/While Bobby contemplates the pluses and minuses between lifting Derek Lowe… Omir Santos, Anderson Hernandez, Oliver Perez, Angel Pagan, and Luis Castillo have all reached base, with only one out being registered on Pagan’s FC. Thankfully, Roger McDowell has unbeknown to Bobby has already gotten Kris Medlen warmed up.
Fans: Bobby, we’re now down by four, and there have been at least two hits that Kelly Johnson probably would have gotten. What’s left of Derek Lowe on the mound looks like got-damn Skeletor. Bobby: Ehhhhh… you’re right, if we want to win this damn game, we need to make sacrifices, right now! Who cares if the pitchers’ spot is due up next, we’ll get ’em right back!
/Bobby relieves Derek Lowe, inserts Kris Medlen, who gives up a hit to Gary Sheffield, but strikes out Daniel Murphy to get out of the inning without allowing any further damage
Bobby: Way to go, Medley! Let’s go! Fans: Fuck you, Bobby. Bobby: Ehhhhhh shit
We’ll never be able to say thank you enough to Bobby for leading us to all the division titles, 100 win seasons, worls series, etc. But I’m really starting to think it’s time to consider a different manager. All the greats have to hang em up eventually (unless you’re Brett Favre, apparently)
Bobby will always hold a special place in every Braves fan’s heart, but let’s stop kidding ourselves here – with every passing season, his “style” becomes more and more outdated, because he’s not adapting and changing with the times. I’m not saying he needed to be reinventing himself each season, but small adjustments to what the rest of the league is doing, as well as keeping mindful of his personnel could have prevented crap like this from happening.
He is far too stingy with his bullpen and bench, and looks so far ahead that he doesn’t see the present sometimes. Lowe was clearly hurting, but Bobby left him in there despite the fact that he was hanging pitches like San Quentin prisoners, because he didn’t want to have to use a bullpen arm, and then pinch-hit for him to start off the next inning. Who the eff cares??
Deal with later, if it gets to that point. I don’t care if David Ross was the only available bat on the bench, despite Bobby’s adamant reluctance to “burning” his backup catcher due to the frightening “what-if” scenarios, you have to make sacrifices from time to time, for the best interests of the team. Deal with a problem, if it even occurs, when it happens. Move Matt Diaz to emergency catcher, and trot out a pitcher to play the outfield if you have to, but yesterday’s stingy player management was unacceptable. I feel that I could’ve trusted anyone in the Braves bullpen not named Manny Acosta to have gotten the team out of that inning with some semblance of a lead, no worse than a tie. Instead we get yesterday’s debacle, and now all the Mets scrubs have this idea that they can hit baseballs, and that confidence carried them the rest of the night, and probably into tonight.
It goes without saying that I think yesterday’s loss was 100% on Bobby. Boog was saying in the broadcast on Monday, that winning 2 out of every 3 should suffice at delivering 90 wins and a likely playoff berth, and then Bobby goes and manages us right into a WTF kind of loss after we’re all feeling good.
I think you may be over reacting just a tad. Bobby probably should have pulled Lowe sooner, no doubt, but Lowe is the one who cost us that game yesterday. Even if Bobby does pull him (He shouldn’t have before the 4th run, IMO), Lowe still blows the lead, and our offense goes into suck mode again.
I didn’t watch the game, but looking into the box score, I see that Chipper and Heap had 1 combined hit. That is our problem. Until those two can start contributing on a regular basis, our offense will get shut down. They are the center pieces of what SHOULD be a pretty damn good offense, but if they are not doing their part, we are doomed to offensive inefficiencies.
This one is not just on Bobby alone, but rather on Lowe, Chipper, McCann and Bobby.
And to be fair, there have been several games that Bobby has been brilliant in and directly contributed to the W.
Good points on Chipper and McCann’s offensive woes. Chipper needs some rest to ail his achy obliques, and I’ve already said my peace on why I don’t think McCann should be batting 4th. And the one good hit McCann does have is immediately negated by a GIDP.
I could be overreacting, but I still stand that this was Bobby’s fault. For someone who’s been touted to be a great manager of people, he sure didn’t notice the signs that Prado could still have been feeling under, when both Boog and Simpson were talking about his negative body language during BP, and he sure didn’t notice the really bad body language coming from Lowe after he got hit in the hand, and wouldn’t even let Jeff Porter examine the damage.
I’ll give credit to Bobby when I see fit to give him credit. I loved it early in the season when he interchanged Gonzalez and Soriano (which he’s abandoned now), but honestly, I can’t remember the last time he’s done anything at all managerially impressive in the last few weeks aside from going by the book decisions.
I tried to stay calm and tell people that it takes time for a pitcher to get warmed up, and this mess did kinda come out of nowhere, but yeah, after the 7th or 8th batter, there was no excuse. What i loved was the honesty of Derek Lowe after the game compared to the complete denial from Bobby:
"I left him in to get a ground ball," Cox explained. "He got a ground ball; it looked like a perfect double play. But Pagan beat it out. Then Castillo hit another ground ball past Infante’s glove."
"I understand what a ground ball is," Lowe said. "But even when it’s on the ground, it’s hit hard. They’re on the ground, but firmly hit." When you have non-competitive stuff, it’s pretty tough to stop it."
It was amazing after the game how Bobby was adamant about Lowe kept getting ground balls and so he stuck with him, even to the point of getting somewhat grizzly at the reporters who kept asking why he let it linger so long – to the contrast of the way Lowe handled his interview.
Lowe pulled no punches and owned the loss and pitching like crap. I admire him for not making excuses.
And YES, the middle of our order needs to start producing more consistently or Bobby needs to shake up the lineup a bit. Which should include LaRoche every day.
I love how Bobby just stares off at the wall or ceiling or something when he is answering questions, like he would rather be getting a rectal exam. I’m also impressed by the balls of Jerome Jurenovich because he’s gonna ask the question, and he’s not afraid to hold the microphone in Bobby’s face and wait for a response while Bobby turns his head and looks away like a baby being fed a spoonful of Gerber carrots.
It was pitiful. Lowe is realllllly struggling this year. He should have been taken out earlier. Infante has nooooo range. Oh well, its all good, we’ll still take 2/3.
Huh? Did I miss something? I know he had a really bad inning last night, and a bit of a bad stretch in June, but I would hardly call that struggling all year.
I am new to the posting but I am always here, but...
that was the worst job of managing I have ever seen out of Bobby. 15 million Lowe!! Are you kidding me? We are in a pennant race for fuck’s sake! We can’t come back from a 4 run deficit, only the Phillies and the Marlins can do that! It looks like a pee-wee homerun derby attempt by our team once we get behind by more 2 runs, it’s over! Sorry, just wanted to vent some frustrations!
These are the season killers. Losing a one run game to the arguable best team in the league is unfortunate, this kind of loss can be a killer. If the Braves do not win tonight and have to avoid a sweep facing Santana, we will all be looking back at this series and the unwinding of Monday’s events and say “that series right there ended it”. Man, you leave the game up 4-0, go to a White Rabbits show (bad ass by the way) and come back to 4-9 and then find out all the details leaves me pretty damn stumped.
This game was like a slow motion car wreck. I couldn’t turn away. I knew the outcome wasn’t going to be good but I kept looking on. After pleading w/ Bobby to take out DLowe via my tv I basically stared at it as if it wasn’t real. Somebody play devils advocate and tell me why he was ledt in. You don’t have to be right just give me something. Come up w/ some off the wall stat proving a sinkerball pitcher gets it going, bobby was held at gunpoint, anything.
The top of the 5th inning was scheduled to have the pitcher lead off, and Bobby did not want to have to lift Lowe for a relief pitcher, because somewhere in his head, it’s illegal for a reliever to have to take an at-bat, and he didn’t want to “burn” another bench player since Prado was “burned” already, and Ross, Norton, Johnson, Gorecki were too valuable to also burn, so early in the game. And by the time he perused his way through the MLB rulebooks and saw that it was okay for a reliever to take an at-bat, he lifted Lowe, and put in Medlen, but by then, the Braves were down by four instead of up by four.
I agree. You could tell even HE was wondering on the mound why Bobby wasn’t coming out of the dugout. Hell even Ray Charles could see he was not going to magically gain control and start pitching well that inning.
Imagine how shocked/surprised the Mets had to be they were given the opportunity to keep shelling him.
And we have 3 more years of paying this guy $12m / yr.
This will hurt the Braves for 3 more years.
With the Lowe money and the Kawakami money, we could have signed Tex. If we had, our offense would be above average and Chipper would be hitting .320 with 20 HRs by now.
I know the 4.5 ERA is the result of getting shelled a few games of the year, but he is hardly a $15m pitcher. Santana and Lincecum are $15m pitchers. Lowe is a $7m pitcher.
Keep in mind, his past few seasons have been in LA – easiest place to pitch, short of SD.
Why on earth snub Tex as “too expensive”, then turn around and spend the same amount of money on Lowe and Kawakami, when we have Medlen and others in the wings? We have the best SP in the game and one of the worst offenses.
If you find that logic faulty, it’s because you don’t know what you’re talking about.
I was actually just agreeing to the comment I responded to
And not so much implicating agreement to what justin was responding to, but since you took the time to accuse me of not knowing what I’m talking about, what the hell.
I agree that $15M is too high for Lowe, but the Braves needed pitching. Sadly, overpaying is what gets results done quickly, and the talent pool for FA pitchers was dwindling down to Lowe and Oliver Perez, and for better or worse, the Braves are stuck with Lowe until he’s almost 40. Along with Kawakami, the Braves now have two pitchers that have combined to miss maybe 2-3 starts, which in itself is a luxury that many teams cannot claim. Neither are aces, but neither is Medlen or any other alternatives in your so called wings. Without such durable and capable of above-average performing pitching, could the Braves and their fans still say that we have the best SP in the game?
As for Teixeira, if you didn’t get it from the bullshit excuses that he and his wife made up, and thought that he was going to go anywhere other than New York, you need to open your eyes a little.
I know the 4.5 ERA is the result of getting shelled a few games of the year, but he is hardly a $15m pitcher. Santana and Lincecum are $15m pitchers. Lowe is a $7m pitcher.
Not even close. Look at their WAR’s. Lincecum is worth more than double what he is getting paid. Besides, think about when those two signed their contracts. CC set the market this past offseason, and in that light, when you consider what CC got and what AJ Burnet got, I’d say we got a pretty good deal for Lowe.
Keep in mind, his past few seasons have been in LA – easiest place to pitch, short of SD.
I think someone needs to take a look at home/away splits for a certain Derek Lowe.
Why on earth snub Tex as "too expensive", then turn around and spend the same amount of money on Lowe and Kawakami, when we have Medlen and others in the wings?
So you are willing to pay the cash for 1 player when you can get two players that fill a greater need for the same price (or cheaper, in this case)?
Economics 101 man.
Also, did you even know who Medlen was before this season? If you did, I guarantee that you did not expect him to dominate AAA (with better numbers than Hanson). I doubt even more that you thought he would make it to Atlanta and pitch as well as he has. Saying that we should not have signed Kawakami and Lowe because we had Medlen “waiting in the wings” is about as ridiculous of a statement as I have heard on here.
We have the best SP in the game and one of the worst offenses.
If you find that logic faulty, it’s because you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Well, apparently I am not the one who doesn’t know what I am talking about. We have the best SP in the game BECAUSE of the very same 2 guys that you think we should not have signed. Kawakami has been pitching like a #3 starter this season, and he has been our #5. Lowe, while he has struggled at times, has been brilliant at other times. Without those two, our SP is on the same level as the Phillies, or maybe even worse.
Regarding our offense, in case you haven’t noticed, this is not the same offensive team that we had back in June. We led the NL in offense in July, and are in the top 5 or so in August. Tiexiera would not have made a single bit of difference on this team right now. Look at what Tex has done and what LaRoche has done. Now, look at how much they are each getting paid and tell me who you think the better deal is.
1B is not our problem, and even our OF is not our offensive problem right now. Those holes have been filled (quite nicely, I would add). Our offensive holes right now are 3B and C. Until Chipper and McCann pull their collective heads out of their asses and start playing like they always have, our offense will continue to struggle.
Yeah I can’t stand when people say we shouldn’t have signed Lowe/Kawakami (one of the two) because we have Medlen. Nobody expected Kris to become a very good starting pitching prospect. I can say I thought he’d be a great addition to our bullpen either this year or next but I did not see his half season in AAA coming, no one could. Medlen hadn’t really started much before this year so if Frank Wren had been counting on him to fill a starter’s role this year, I would have been pissed. I do disagree with your assessment of Chipper though, he isn’t the problem. He hasn’t played up to the level we expect but he’s still been very good in the 3 hole. C, 2B, and to a degree CF have been killing us. McLouth was really struggling but Church has at least been able to draw plenty of walks. At second I think it’s time to give Kelly his 2nd chance, Infante shouldn’t be there everyday and Prado needs to get healthy. McCann we just have to let him work his issues out, I draw hope from the fact that he’s been hitting at hard just right at people.
yeah I’d much rather pay Oliver Perez 3 years 30+Million, since that was really the alternative during the offseason. If we hadn’t signed Lowe and Kawakami our pitching would have killed us early in the year, not only that but who’s to say Tex even resigns with us. From everything that’s been said, it would have taken more than 23M per yr to get him out of pinstripes. Lowe outside of his string of starts against the al east and his latest outing has been pretty damn good.
Well. I’m not exactly sure what caused the sudden meltdown with Lowe in that inning but i have a feeling the reason it took Bobby so long to get Medlen out is because he was trying wait till he was warm. Bobby couldnt have anticipated that it would melt that fast so im sure he didnt call the BP till it became a one run game. By the time Medlen was warm the whole thing went to the crapper.
Either way we should have been able to do more against Perez and that Mets pitching staff last night. Chip and Mac are hurting us with these offensive woes of theirs. I would say to sit Chipper for a few days or like a week. We need him fully healthy and thats the bottom line.
is critical @ this point. The stakes are too high. Baseball protocol is thrown out the window. You can obviously see your pitcher struggling. You pull him after blowing a 4 run lead & the game is now tied. And to add salt to the wound you got Frenchy who all of a sudden turns into a hitter. He’s all smiles, chatting it up w/the Braves players while he’s on base. The game had the feel of a Baptist homecoming softball game instead of a fight for a playoff spot. Really disappointed. This was probably the worst game of the year. Ah,heck. I still love em. Go Braves.
If Chipper wouldn’t have hit Frenchy while trying to throw him out at home do you think Frenchy puts his Clemson recruiting jersey on and levels Heap? It looked like he was lowering his shoulder a bit getting ready for impact.
We’ve been at the point of no return so many times this season, and (shocker) we’re here again. I don’t think there is another team in baseball that is consistently this good AND bad.
This sucks.
blitzerlover - August 18, 2009
Shit.
I havent been this disappointed in like…4 years since the Chris Burke HR in the 18th inning.
Scott Coleman - August 18, 2009
Why would you bring that up?
So many painful memories.
blitzerlover - August 18, 2009
im sorry. i really am.
Scott Coleman - August 18, 2009
that was probably the biggest heartbreak of my life :(
heap16 - August 18, 2009
its a tie for me. its between the Burke HR in 2005 or my beloved Arizona Wildcats blowing a 17 point lead against Illinois with 4 minutes to go in the 2003 Great 8.
Scott Coleman - August 18, 2009
Cmon...
it’s one regular season game. Get a grip.
sddbaker - August 19, 2009
Can we start a fire Bobby Cox poll?
taney71 - August 18, 2009
im sure Frank Wren will take our poll into deep consideration and will make the move ASAP!
Scott Coleman - August 18, 2009
No
FrankyWren - August 18, 2009
i dont think so.
esadb - August 19, 2009
This game was on Bobby. When the game was tied up, Lowe should have been pulled. This game was like a highlighter for Bobby’s biggest fault throughout the years.
someguy917 - August 18, 2009
FUCKING MOTHER FUCK THIS FUCKING TEAM
sdp - August 18, 2009
:-)
sdp - August 18, 2009
thats the spirit!
Scott Coleman - August 18, 2009 via mobile
AND ITS FAMILY!!!1
justincredubil02 - August 19, 2009
Watching this game was like sliding down a razor blade into a vat of mercurichrome.
John Holton - August 18, 2009
Heyward homered!
I guess thats the only good news we get tonight. Freeman had a 2RBI triple as well.
Scott Coleman - August 18, 2009
Christian Bethancourt
homered and Masters had another good start. Did Freeman triple? the Milb boxscore says he went 0/5 with K.
VivaLosBravos - August 18, 2009
I'm pumped
about Bethancourt.
VivaLosBravos - August 18, 2009
Really? I coulda sworn it said he tripled in the play by play cause I remember thinking “wow, I didn’t think Freddie was fast enough to get a triple!”
Maybe I’m misreading something…but i’m like 90% sure I saw that.
Scott Coleman - August 18, 2009 via mobile
I saw the triple too just a little while ago. Now he he is 0/5. Wierd.
bbxxj - August 19, 2009
seee
i knew i wasnt crazy! i thought i really was going crazy when the Mets scored 8 runs earlier tonight…actually, i was going crazy, but i swore i saw it from Freeman too. I even looked and i posted it in game thread.
Its weird tho cause in that inning, Freeman tripled with 1 out. Then the 5th hitter hit a sac fly and scored Freeman…but then the inning ended without a 3rd out. Hmmm…maybe someone was sippin a little bit in the press box in Mississippi? Alcohol in the heat can be very dangerous
Scott Coleman - August 19, 2009
Hey, you called it in the gamethread, nice call
GoBravesNY - August 18, 2009
I sure did. But I also called a 3-4 performance and that certainly didn’t happen :(
Scott Coleman - August 18, 2009 via mobile
i kicked my dog i was so pissed. biggest setback of the year.
HawksBaseball2 - August 19, 2009
weak
Chief Noc-A-Homa - August 19, 2009
The game sucks, a lot, but one positive is that Medlen looked really good tonight. 5 K’s in 2 1/3 IP
McCann's the Man - August 19, 2009
I thought the very same thing
VivaLosBravos - August 19, 2009
He certainly did. Nice to see.
NCChopper - August 19, 2009
This game is a prime example of why I've turned on Bobby this year
Fans: Bobby! Lowe’s clearly hurting out there. That callus, combined with the hit to the glove-hand, he’s out of his game. He’s given up two hits, and he keeps looking back here! Shouldn’t you pull him?
Bobby: Ehhhhh, we already had to burn Marty, and Roachy’s in there already, so I can’t afford to remove Lowey, with the pitchey spot up nexty…
/Derek Lowe gives up RBI hits to Gary Sheffield and Jeff Francoeur to cut the lead to one.
Fans: Bobby! Jeff Francoeur got a hit Lowe’s hurt! You have to get him out of there!
Bobby: Ehhhh, Lowey’s already got one out, see? He got Murphy out, he can get two more! I don’t want to have to relieve him, only to have to have a pinch-hittey start of the next inney!
/Fernando Tatis singles to bring in the tying run in Jeff Francoeur.
Fans: Bobby, it’s a tie game now. Lowe can’t take much more of this. If you pull him now, we can still come back! Oliver Perez is off, we can still come back from this!
Bobby: Ehhhhh….
/While Bobby contemplates the pluses and minuses between lifting Derek Lowe… Omir Santos, Anderson Hernandez, Oliver Perez, Angel Pagan, and Luis Castillo have all reached base, with only one out being registered on Pagan’s FC. Thankfully, Roger McDowell has unbeknown to Bobby has already gotten Kris Medlen warmed up.
Fans: Bobby, we’re now down by four, and there have been at least two hits that Kelly Johnson probably would have gotten. What’s left of Derek Lowe on the mound looks like got-damn Skeletor.
Bobby: Ehhhhh… you’re right, if we want to win this damn game, we need to make sacrifices, right now! Who cares if the pitchers’ spot is due up next, we’ll get ’em right back!
/Bobby relieves Derek Lowe, inserts Kris Medlen, who gives up a hit to Gary Sheffield, but strikes out Daniel Murphy to get out of the inning without allowing any further damage
Bobby: Way to go, Medley! Let’s go!
Fans: Fuck you, Bobby.
Bobby: Ehhhhhh shit
royhobbs - August 19, 2009
We’ll never be able to say thank you enough to Bobby for leading us to all the division titles, 100 win seasons, worls series, etc. But I’m really starting to think it’s time to consider a different manager. All the greats have to hang em up eventually (unless you’re Brett Favre, apparently)
Scott Coleman - August 19, 2009 via mobile
Bingo
Bobby will always hold a special place in every Braves fan’s heart, but let’s stop kidding ourselves here – with every passing season, his “style” becomes more and more outdated, because he’s not adapting and changing with the times. I’m not saying he needed to be reinventing himself each season, but small adjustments to what the rest of the league is doing, as well as keeping mindful of his personnel could have prevented crap like this from happening.
He is far too stingy with his bullpen and bench, and looks so far ahead that he doesn’t see the present sometimes. Lowe was clearly hurting, but Bobby left him in there despite the fact that he was hanging pitches like San Quentin prisoners, because he didn’t want to have to use a bullpen arm, and then pinch-hit for him to start off the next inning. Who the eff cares??
Deal with later, if it gets to that point. I don’t care if David Ross was the only available bat on the bench, despite Bobby’s adamant reluctance to “burning” his backup catcher due to the frightening “what-if” scenarios, you have to make sacrifices from time to time, for the best interests of the team. Deal with a problem, if it even occurs, when it happens. Move Matt Diaz to emergency catcher, and trot out a pitcher to play the outfield if you have to, but yesterday’s stingy player management was unacceptable. I feel that I could’ve trusted anyone in the Braves bullpen not named Manny Acosta to have gotten the team out of that inning with some semblance of a lead, no worse than a tie. Instead we get yesterday’s debacle, and now all the Mets scrubs have this idea that they can hit baseballs, and that confidence carried them the rest of the night, and probably into tonight.
It goes without saying that I think yesterday’s loss was 100% on Bobby. Boog was saying in the broadcast on Monday, that winning 2 out of every 3 should suffice at delivering 90 wins and a likely playoff berth, and then Bobby goes and manages us right into a WTF kind of loss after we’re all feeling good.
royhobbs - August 19, 2009
I think you may be over reacting just a tad. Bobby probably should have pulled Lowe sooner, no doubt, but Lowe is the one who cost us that game yesterday. Even if Bobby does pull him (He shouldn’t have before the 4th run, IMO), Lowe still blows the lead, and our offense goes into suck mode again.
I didn’t watch the game, but looking into the box score, I see that Chipper and Heap had 1 combined hit. That is our problem. Until those two can start contributing on a regular basis, our offense will get shut down. They are the center pieces of what SHOULD be a pretty damn good offense, but if they are not doing their part, we are doomed to offensive inefficiencies.
This one is not just on Bobby alone, but rather on Lowe, Chipper, McCann and Bobby.
And to be fair, there have been several games that Bobby has been brilliant in and directly contributed to the W.
justincredubil02 - August 19, 2009
True
Good points on Chipper and McCann’s offensive woes. Chipper needs some rest to ail his achy obliques, and I’ve already said my peace on why I don’t think McCann should be batting 4th. And the one good hit McCann does have is immediately negated by a GIDP.
I could be overreacting, but I still stand that this was Bobby’s fault. For someone who’s been touted to be a great manager of people, he sure didn’t notice the signs that Prado could still have been feeling under, when both Boog and Simpson were talking about his negative body language during BP, and he sure didn’t notice the really bad body language coming from Lowe after he got hit in the hand, and wouldn’t even let Jeff Porter examine the damage.
I’ll give credit to Bobby when I see fit to give him credit. I loved it early in the season when he interchanged Gonzalez and Soriano (which he’s abandoned now), but honestly, I can’t remember the last time he’s done anything at all managerially impressive in the last few weeks aside from going by the book decisions.
royhobbs - August 19, 2009
Fair enough. I blame Bobby for not putting KJ in the line-up too. KJ is one of our hottest bats.
justincredubil02 - August 19, 2009
You turned something that was thoroughly miserable to sit through into something quite funny to read.
Bravo to you, sir.
get swoll yunel - August 19, 2009
Golden.
I tried to stay calm and tell people that it takes time for a pitcher to get warmed up, and this mess did kinda come out of nowhere, but yeah, after the 7th or 8th batter, there was no excuse. What i loved was the honesty of Derek Lowe after the game compared to the complete denial from Bobby:
"I understand what a ground ball is," Lowe said. "But even when it’s on the ground, it’s hit hard. They’re on the ground, but firmly hit." When you have non-competitive stuff, it’s pretty tough to stop it."
10-4 - August 19, 2009
I was gonna post about this too.
It was amazing after the game how Bobby was adamant about Lowe kept getting ground balls and so he stuck with him, even to the point of getting somewhat grizzly at the reporters who kept asking why he let it linger so long – to the contrast of the way Lowe handled his interview.
Lowe pulled no punches and owned the loss and pitching like crap. I admire him for not making excuses.
And YES, the middle of our order needs to start producing more consistently or Bobby needs to shake up the lineup a bit. Which should include LaRoche every day.
NCChopper - August 19, 2009
I love how Bobby just stares off at the wall or ceiling or something when he is answering questions, like he would rather be getting a rectal exam. I’m also impressed by the balls of Jerome Jurenovich because he’s gonna ask the question, and he’s not afraid to hold the microphone in Bobby’s face and wait for a response while Bobby turns his head and looks away like a baby being fed a spoonful of Gerber carrots.
10-4 - August 19, 2009
Our $15/mil ace should be able to get out of that inning
TradeAndruw - August 19, 2009
That’s what I’ve been saying. I mean come on.
McGriff the Crime Dog - August 19, 2009
I was at this motherfucking game.
It was pitiful. Lowe is realllllly struggling this year. He should have been taken out earlier. Infante has nooooo range. Oh well, its all good, we’ll still take 2/3.
nick9314 - August 19, 2009
We have to face Santana though. I know it’s still likely, but still, it’s hard for me to have that attitude.
McGriff the Crime Dog - August 19, 2009
Huh? Did I miss something? I know he had a really bad inning last night, and a bit of a bad stretch in June, but I would hardly call that struggling all year.
sddbaker - August 19, 2009
Infante’s half-assed attempt at the ground ball late in the game had me screaming at my TV.
NCChopper - August 19, 2009
There’s one simple fact we’re all too afraid to talk about: the Braves lost this game because Reid Gorecki didn’t play.
cbwilk - August 19, 2009
I am new to the posting but I am always here, but...
that was the worst job of managing I have ever seen out of Bobby. 15 million Lowe!! Are you kidding me? We are in a pennant race for fuck’s sake! We can’t come back from a 4 run deficit, only the Phillies and the Marlins can do that! It looks like a pee-wee homerun derby attempt by our team once we get behind by more 2 runs, it’s over! Sorry, just wanted to vent some frustrations!
Braves111 - August 19, 2009
Smoltz to sign with the Cards….
And I could tell the callous/blister was really bothering Lowe tonight. I stopped watching after he gave up a hit to Frenchy.
Sparhawk - August 19, 2009
“Why………………..why………………..why…………….why?”
- Nancy Kerrigen
~
Why not yank Lowe at 4 all? Retarded.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - August 19, 2009
Stumped
These are the season killers. Losing a one run game to the arguable best team in the league is unfortunate, this kind of loss can be a killer. If the Braves do not win tonight and have to avoid a sweep facing Santana, we will all be looking back at this series and the unwinding of Monday’s events and say “that series right there ended it”. Man, you leave the game up 4-0, go to a White Rabbits show (bad ass by the way) and come back to 4-9 and then find out all the details leaves me pretty damn stumped.
CharlotteChop18 - August 19, 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQCzUUWXFdI
sddbaker - August 19, 2009
"wooooooah"
I can’t stop laughing… + a zillion
Bravely going forward - August 19, 2009
LMAO!!!
HEYJUDE - August 19, 2009
fantastic.
10-4 - August 19, 2009
This game alone
decreased our playoff chances 7% in the eyes of PECOTA. For whatever that’s worth.
VivaLosBravos - August 19, 2009
This game was like a slow motion car wreck. I couldn’t turn away. I knew the outcome wasn’t going to be good but I kept looking on. After pleading w/ Bobby to take out DLowe via my tv I basically stared at it as if it wasn’t real. Somebody play devils advocate and tell me why he was ledt in. You don’t have to be right just give me something. Come up w/ some off the wall stat proving a sinkerball pitcher gets it going, bobby was held at gunpoint, anything.
Chesterhighwater - August 19, 2009 via mobile
Easy
The top of the 5th inning was scheduled to have the pitcher lead off, and Bobby did not want to have to lift Lowe for a relief pitcher, because somewhere in his head, it’s illegal for a reliever to have to take an at-bat, and he didn’t want to “burn” another bench player since Prado was “burned” already, and Ross, Norton, Johnson, Gorecki were too valuable to also burn, so early in the game. And by the time he perused his way through the MLB rulebooks and saw that it was okay for a reliever to take an at-bat, he lifted Lowe, and put in Medlen, but by then, the Braves were down by four instead of up by four.
royhobbs - August 19, 2009
http://dereklowe.mlblogs.com/
Still waiting for a post on his latest shelling.
TradeAndruw - August 19, 2009
Lowe is a pretty standup guy...
…he said after the game that he stunk. I’m pretty sure he would have taken himself out sooner, if it was up to him.
sddbaker - August 19, 2009
I agree. You could tell even HE was wondering on the mound why Bobby wasn’t coming out of the dugout. Hell even Ray Charles could see he was not going to magically gain control and start pitching well that inning.
Imagine how shocked/surprised the Mets had to be they were given the opportunity to keep shelling him.
NCChopper - August 19, 2009
For the Braves, “you win some, you lose some,” is a HUGE understatement.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - August 19, 2009
Lowe is the bust of 2009
And we have 3 more years of paying this guy $12m / yr.
This will hurt the Braves for 3 more years.
With the Lowe money and the Kawakami money, we could have signed Tex. If we had, our offense would be above average and Chipper would be hitting .320 with 20 HRs by now.
nathan rothschild - August 19, 2009
“And we have 3 more years of paying this guy $12m / yr.”
Correction, that’s $15m / yr.
TradeAndruw - August 19, 2009
Damn that “rulebook”. Lowe bats…results in an out. Medlen bats and also results in an out. Its the same fucking result Bobby!!! Crazy ass old man.
I would say Lowe has been a bust. Sure we overpaid but we had to.
Chesterhighwater - August 19, 2009 via mobile
Hasn’t been a bust.
Chesterhighwater - August 19, 2009 via mobile
you people....
…you’re killing me….
sddbaker - August 19, 2009
First the Proctobomb, now the Sddbaker Logic Bomb! The latter being much more tolerable.
10-4 - August 19, 2009
Maybe Bobby snoozed off after looking at Lowe’s hand in the 4th…
Chief Noc-A-Homa - August 19, 2009
Can there be a litmus test required before people are allowed to post?
justincredubil02 - August 19, 2009
If only
royhobbs - August 19, 2009
are you kidding?
I know the 4.5 ERA is the result of getting shelled a few games of the year, but he is hardly a $15m pitcher. Santana and Lincecum are $15m pitchers. Lowe is a $7m pitcher.
Keep in mind, his past few seasons have been in LA – easiest place to pitch, short of SD.
Why on earth snub Tex as “too expensive”, then turn around and spend the same amount of money on Lowe and Kawakami, when we have Medlen and others in the wings? We have the best SP in the game and one of the worst offenses.
If you find that logic faulty, it’s because you don’t know what you’re talking about.
nathan rothschild - August 19, 2009
I was actually just agreeing to the comment I responded to
And not so much implicating agreement to what justin was responding to, but since you took the time to accuse me of not knowing what I’m talking about, what the hell.
I agree that $15M is too high for Lowe, but the Braves needed pitching. Sadly, overpaying is what gets results done quickly, and the talent pool for FA pitchers was dwindling down to Lowe and Oliver Perez, and for better or worse, the Braves are stuck with Lowe until he’s almost 40. Along with Kawakami, the Braves now have two pitchers that have combined to miss maybe 2-3 starts, which in itself is a luxury that many teams cannot claim. Neither are aces, but neither is Medlen or any other alternatives in your so called wings. Without such durable and capable of above-average performing pitching, could the Braves and their fans still say that we have the best SP in the game?
As for Teixeira, if you didn’t get it from the bullshit excuses that he and his wife made up, and thought that he was going to go anywhere other than New York, you need to open your eyes a little.
royhobbs - August 19, 2009
Actually
if one WAR is worth $4.5M, Lowe has been worth 12.5M already this season.
And Lincecum has been worth $32.5M
VivaLosBravos - August 19, 2009
Not even close. Look at their WAR’s. Lincecum is worth more than double what he is getting paid. Besides, think about when those two signed their contracts. CC set the market this past offseason, and in that light, when you consider what CC got and what AJ Burnet got, I’d say we got a pretty good deal for Lowe.
I think someone needs to take a look at home/away splits for a certain Derek Lowe.
So you are willing to pay the cash for 1 player when you can get two players that fill a greater need for the same price (or cheaper, in this case)?
Economics 101 man.
Also, did you even know who Medlen was before this season? If you did, I guarantee that you did not expect him to dominate AAA (with better numbers than Hanson). I doubt even more that you thought he would make it to Atlanta and pitch as well as he has. Saying that we should not have signed Kawakami and Lowe because we had Medlen “waiting in the wings” is about as ridiculous of a statement as I have heard on here.
Well, apparently I am not the one who doesn’t know what I am talking about. We have the best SP in the game BECAUSE of the very same 2 guys that you think we should not have signed. Kawakami has been pitching like a #3 starter this season, and he has been our #5. Lowe, while he has struggled at times, has been brilliant at other times. Without those two, our SP is on the same level as the Phillies, or maybe even worse.
Regarding our offense, in case you haven’t noticed, this is not the same offensive team that we had back in June. We led the NL in offense in July, and are in the top 5 or so in August. Tiexiera would not have made a single bit of difference on this team right now. Look at what Tex has done and what LaRoche has done. Now, look at how much they are each getting paid and tell me who you think the better deal is.
1B is not our problem, and even our OF is not our offensive problem right now. Those holes have been filled (quite nicely, I would add). Our offensive holes right now are 3B and C. Until Chipper and McCann pull their collective heads out of their asses and start playing like they always have, our offense will continue to struggle.
Again, I vote in favor of a litmus test.
justincredubil02 - August 19, 2009
Yeah I can’t stand when people say we shouldn’t have signed Lowe/Kawakami (one of the two) because we have Medlen. Nobody expected Kris to become a very good starting pitching prospect. I can say I thought he’d be a great addition to our bullpen either this year or next but I did not see his half season in AAA coming, no one could. Medlen hadn’t really started much before this year so if Frank Wren had been counting on him to fill a starter’s role this year, I would have been pissed. I do disagree with your assessment of Chipper though, he isn’t the problem. He hasn’t played up to the level we expect but he’s still been very good in the 3 hole. C, 2B, and to a degree CF have been killing us. McLouth was really struggling but Church has at least been able to draw plenty of walks. At second I think it’s time to give Kelly his 2nd chance, Infante shouldn’t be there everyday and Prado needs to get healthy. McCann we just have to let him work his issues out, I draw hope from the fact that he’s been hitting at hard just right at people.
McCann's the Man - August 19, 2009
yeah I’d much rather pay Oliver Perez 3 years 30+Million, since that was really the alternative during the offseason. If we hadn’t signed Lowe and Kawakami our pitching would have killed us early in the year, not only that but who’s to say Tex even resigns with us. From everything that’s been said, it would have taken more than 23M per yr to get him out of pinstripes. Lowe outside of his string of starts against the al east and his latest outing has been pretty damn good.
McCann's the Man - August 19, 2009
Hmm
Well. I’m not exactly sure what caused the sudden meltdown with Lowe in that inning but i have a feeling the reason it took Bobby so long to get Medlen out is because he was trying wait till he was warm. Bobby couldnt have anticipated that it would melt that fast so im sure he didnt call the BP till it became a one run game. By the time Medlen was warm the whole thing went to the crapper.
Either way we should have been able to do more against Perez and that Mets pitching staff last night. Chip and Mac are hurting us with these offensive woes of theirs. I would say to sit Chipper for a few days or like a week. We need him fully healthy and thats the bottom line.
drumzalicious - August 19, 2009
Amen.
NCChopper - August 19, 2009
Somebody forgot to flip our switch on. Hopefully the switch is on tonite. Losing to Frenchy and the Mets B-squad is pathetic.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - August 19, 2009
every game
is critical @ this point. The stakes are too high. Baseball protocol is thrown out the window. You can obviously see your pitcher struggling. You pull him after blowing a 4 run lead & the game is now tied. And to add salt to the wound you got Frenchy who all of a sudden turns into a hitter. He’s all smiles, chatting it up w/the Braves players while he’s on base. The game had the feel of a Baptist homecoming softball game instead of a fight for a playoff spot. Really disappointed. This was probably the worst game of the year. Ah,heck. I still love em. Go Braves.
adc62 - August 19, 2009
If Chipper wouldn’t have hit Frenchy while trying to throw him out at home do you think Frenchy puts his Clemson recruiting jersey on and levels Heap? It looked like he was lowering his shoulder a bit getting ready for impact.
Chesterhighwater - August 19, 2009 via mobile
a farcical notion
McCann would do the Mets a favor by adding the Frenchman to their ever expanding DL.
VivaLosBravos - August 19, 2009
We’ve been at the point of no return so many times this season, and (shocker) we’re here again. I don’t think there is another team in baseball that is consistently this good AND bad.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - August 19, 2009
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