Just hours after releasing Hall of Famer Tom Glavine, the Braves acquired outfielder Nate McLouth from the Pirates in exchange for pitcher Charlie Morton, minor-league outfielder Gorkys Hernandez, and minor-league pitcher Jeff Locke.
First reaction. Holy CRAP we gave up a lot! But we get a center fielder with power and speed. Holy crap, Morton, Gorkys, AND Locke?!?
[UPDATE: 7:25pm]
Coming down from the fence, I'm starting to think a little more sensibly about this. Someone mentioned it in the comments, and they're right, Morton is a spare part after Hanson and Medlen, Gorkys is blocked by Schafer and at least a year away, and McLouth is a better player and already a proven major leaguer, and Locke has not been that good this year and seems to be getting progressivly worse each step up the minor league ladder (though he is still a young toolsy pitcher).
McLouth adds both power and speed to our order, and could bat anywhere from first to sixth (though probably not fourth). He's hit primarily in the third spot this year, but in his career has started the most games at leadoff, where he has a good on-base percentage and good power.
The biggest story here is how fast, just two months into the season, the Braves and Frank Wren have acted to fix their beleagured outfield. This is a true sign that we are in it to win it and Wren is going to do what it takes to make that happen... within reason. Keep in mind that we didn't have to give up any of our top prospects, with Gorkys being the only one likely in the top-5 or 6. Wren also kept the budget in check by acquiring a guy that they will only have to pay $2 million this year, and someone who is signed for three more years at reasonable increases in salary.
Okay, I'm liking this trade more and more. I think my initial reaction (which was an honest initial reaction) was one of those types of reactions one has when you trade away guys that you think are "your guys." And most people over-value their own prospects. But prospects are there to be traded for major league needs. We still have our top-5 prospects. We still have copius pitching depth. We just upgraded the least productive position in our starting lineup with an All-Star Gold Glover.
This is an official WIN for the Braves.
0 recs | 317 comments
Holy crap is right!
I cannot, CANNOT believe we gave that much up for …. McLouth? WTF Frank, WTF!!!
scstrato - June 3, 2009
Dont complain
want Gregor Blanco?
esadb - June 3, 2009
No, but I have to believe these three have more value than Nate F’ing McLouth.
scstrato - June 3, 2009
Typical baseball fan over-valuing prospects...
Next, please.
sdp - June 3, 2009
Oouch, but that’s true. I’d rather have the guy who has already one a gold glove and gone to the allstar game than an unproven prospect.
SunDolphin - June 3, 2009
Because gold gloves are such an accurate representation of a players defensive abilities …
scstrato - June 3, 2009
mandatory all-star appearances too...
tho i actually like the trade
Doghnut - June 3, 2009
Look at it this way: he can spend the rest of the year in center, and next year, he can shift to left assuming Logan is ready, which will allow his defense to shine a little better
bigjoe - June 3, 2009
Trust me, i’m far from typical. Would love to see your justification for why McLouth is so valuable?
scstrato - June 3, 2009
This is a good trade.
If analized by VORP, Mclouth was the fourth best CF offensively last year with 49.4 runs above a replacement player. He is a good CF defensively though not a great one according to John Dewan’s +/- metric.
The only thing we could regret is Charlie Morton becoming the next Adam Wainright.
At the time of that trade to the red birds, everybody was saying Wainright was a AAAA pitcher and that he wouldn’t be an effective starter yadda yadda yadda.
We are also saying that with Neftali Feliz, even ignoring guys like Keith Law and Baseball Prospectus who say Feliz is going to be an electric starter with plus stuff.
What worries me is that the Braves organization is prone to give away too much. But at least they got a valuable, cheap player signed for a long term contract. Opposite to Teixeira who everyone knew was going to bolt for the highest bidder in less than a year.
Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela - June 3, 2009
Thats better
At least someone is giving some evidence. Personally I’ve lost some faith in VORP, but it has it’s place. I’m really not buying Dewan’s score for McLouth, especially when other fielding metrics disagree so strongly.
This is my number one concern, though it is very clearly a long shot it’s hard to argue that Charlie doesn’t have quality stuff. I just feel that McLouth isn’t the impact bat that puts us over the top.
This! Though I can’t argue with your underlying sentiment that McLouth is better than ALL our current options. Further I’m not saying i’m not happy to have him, just we paid a premium out of desperation.
scstrato - June 3, 2009
$$
Even at a corner position, McLouth is conservatively a 3-win player, who is under ATL’s control for the next 2.5 years at $12M. I don’t understand how that isn’t a good thing.
Is it possible that Morton (or Locke) will develop into a front-line ace in a few years? Of course, it’s possible. Pittsburgh’s front office isn’t populated with fools. They aren’t going to trade away (arguably) their biggest trade piece 7 weeks before the trading deadline for nothing. However, the trade deals from strength and addresses a need. Morton was unlikely to have a clear path to the ATL rotation, which made him expendable.
Let the Pirates collect guys who will help them in 2011 and 2012. Wren is looking at 3 months from now.
Yakker - June 3, 2009
they have a reasonable option year as well
Stephen Schmidt - June 3, 2009
$11M?
Not sure I’d call that reasonable, but yeah, they have an option for 2012 too.
Yakker - June 3, 2009
Just for comparison's sake:
Guys who made between $9 and $13 mil last year (one would think those would inflate by ’12)
Listed in ascending order:
Gary Matthews
Matt Holliday
Jermaine Dye
Aaron Rowand
Brian Giles
Jose Guillen
Carlos Lee
Garrett Anderson
Adam Dunn
Hideki Matsui
Johnny Damon
So there are certainly teams paying more for less.
MichaelProcton - June 4, 2009
Solid trade. Basically traded “surplus” talent for a glaring need.
VictorW - June 4, 2009
What metrics are these? UZR and PMR both think McLouth is a poor defensive CF. The difference is +/- thinks he’s absolutely awful versus UZR and PMR thinking he’s just bad..
VictorW - June 4, 2009
VORP is no longer useful until the provide better positional adjustments and until BP figures out real defensive metrics.
VictorW - June 4, 2009
Yeah.
A 27-year old who has a career OPS over 800, can go 25-25, and plays a decent CF?
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
And, as mentioned, is under control at reasonable price for several years.
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
Oy-vey
Yep, his career OPS is over 800 – by a whopping .001 point. Can go 25-25, but has yet to do so. Not touching the “decent cf” part.
You just described a slightly better than league average player yet we payed three very good prospects for him. His contract at his current production is only reasonable for this year and next. He might break even in 2010 and it is highly unlikely he’ll be worth the 10mil in 2011.
So, my question is, when did start costing three very good prospects for just above league average production? Answer – when we got desperate.
scstrato - June 3, 2009
Hmm…I’m kinda surprised you’re so against this trade.
Smoltz's Beard - June 3, 2009
Honestly, i’m not against acquiring McLouth – it’s just the price we paid that bothers me. I get that he has some power, has phenomenal SB skills and is controllable for several years but if I’m giving up three of my top 20/25 prospects, in an organization ranked as highly as the Braves are, then by god I want an impact bat. Maybe it’s just me, I hope it is, but NM just doesn’t strike me as impact-ful.
scstrato - June 3, 2009
The thing is tho, if they bat him lead off he gives us a consistent spark at the top thats a SB threat. if they bat him lower in the lineup like #3 and Chip #4 that gives us a bit more run production in the middle.
either way he helps whether its scoring a lot of runs at the top or driving them in in the middle.
drumzalicious - June 3, 2009
And Kelly and Yunie have shown...
you can do both at the top.
MichaelProcton - June 4, 2009
.200 some ISO slugging and solid OBP as a CF is an impact bat
The one thing that I don’t like about McLouth is that he struggles mightily against lefties. Well, I haven’t checked this year’s stat’s, but he was absolutely abysmal before.
VictorW - June 4, 2009
SSS…but he’s doing very well against them this year
Smoltz's Beard - June 4, 2009
Did I miss the Delorean back to 2004?
Why are we still using OPS to evaluate this deal? His bat is worth about 2.5 wins above replacement per season. That is not league average. Thrown in that he can at least handle CF and appears to be a pretty decent corner OF, and you’re talking about a 3-3.5 win guy.
Good lord. At least use approx. 120 OPS+ if you want to focus on outmoded measures of offensive worth.
Yakker - June 3, 2009
lol…gotta admit this is pretty funny
Smoltz's Beard - June 3, 2009
Thanks
Yakker - June 3, 2009
You certainly missed something
I didn’t use OPS to evaluate the deal in the post you responded to, I merely tried to point out how misleading the OGP’s statement was. Further, there are just as many defensive metrics that prove McLouth to be terrible defensively as there are that prove otherwise so giving him a .5 to 1 win boost over his offensive production is faulty in my book. I’m sorry if I upset you by not writing in a language that less than 2 to 5% of this blogs population understands, but when a poster responds to me using a specific stat then that is the stat that I will use in responding to them if that’s ok by you.
scstrato - June 3, 2009
The sarcasm would have been more effective had you not forgotten the replacement and positional adjustments for a guy holding down CF.
Last year, even grading out as a -1 win defensive player, McL posted a 3.5 WAR.
Yakker - June 4, 2009
Granted my sarcasm may have been a bit overboard but I found your original response surprising considering the lack of attitude in our previous debates. Still, you know I have never studied Wins nor WAR enough to do the calculations but I know enough about them to know McLouth has never been a 3.5 WAR player prior to last year. I also know enough to say that he is not on pace to replicate that number this year either (low BABIP or not). So I fail to see how my statement that he is only slightly above average is not accurate.
scstrato - June 4, 2009
Few things
1. I wasn’t trying to be a d*ck in my first response to you, I was sort of commenting on the thread and trying to be funny. So, if I hit a nerve, I apologize.
2. I know OPS is an easier way to assess offensive production than WAR, but it’s a poor measure for someone like McL, who plays half his games at PNC. His OPS+ can provide a better sense of his production, and offensive WAR an even better one. I totally get that you were just debating on someone else’s terms, but to me the whole discussion just seemed so dated.
3. Bottom line, McLouth had a great year last year, offensively. His CF defense hurt his overall value, but he was still a 3.6 win player overall. Granted, he’s never done that prior to 2008, but he’s only 27. In 2007, at age 25, he was worth over 1.5 WAR, and that was in part-time play. IMO, he’s a good bet to put up above-average production for the next few years.
4. 3.6 wins from your CF is pretty good. For reference, Matt Kemp posted a lower WAR than McL last year, and Granderson was only a touch higher. If we focus on just his bat, McLouth was worth 25 runs over the course of the 2008 season. That was good for 4th among CFers, behind Sizemore, Beltran, and Hamilton. D*mn fine company.
5. Oh, and actually, McLouth is exactly on pace to duplicate his 3.6 win totals from last year. He’s got 1.2 WAR one-third of the way through the year. If his BABIP reverts, he could actually get closer to +4 wins. All for $2M. That’s seriously a pretty darn good deal.
Yakker - June 4, 2009
Prior to last year he never had more than 382 plate appearances in a season. If he had 685 like he did in 2008, then he would have been about a 2.8-2.9 win player in 2007. Considering that McLouth is hitting his athletic prime and had only seen 400 some major league at bats before 2007, he should improve. And, like Yakker said, he’s on pace to be another 3.5ish win player.
VictorW - June 4, 2009
I forgot everyone thought Charlie Morton was enough to get anybody...
bwellnjonesco - June 4, 2009
My head is about to explode.
- Frank Wren knows how to make a splash
- Crap, I liked Gorky a lot.
- What is McLouth’s remaining contract???
Dandrews - June 3, 2009
Really not that much. Morton would never start for us, Locke has been bad, and Gorkys is blocked. He’s signed cheap through 2012. He’s a lefty though
graf - June 3, 2009
Ill miss you gorkys
Ill go cry now
esadb - June 3, 2009
I love it. I wanted McClouth in the off season.
BeantownVol - June 3, 2009
bigjoe - June 3, 2009
nice, reasonable contract
get swoll yunel - June 3, 2009
Gorkys and Morton were spare parts, and Locke is still a far way away.
bigjoe - June 3, 2009
hope you're right
I dont really know much about our prospects outside of the top 2 or 3…on first glance, it looks like we gave up too much, but if you turn out to be right, then itll be fine…
Doghnut - June 3, 2009
Morton had a sub 2 ERA in AAA, that’s not a spare part. I don’t know why people here tend to overlook that. He always showed good stuff in the minors.
He was injured last year and that’s the reason he pitched so poorly.
Gorkys was a good prospect, but he was never going to be a base stealer or hit for power, so he was expendable.
Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela - June 3, 2009
When I say “spare part”, I mean that he’s not gonna crack the MLB rotation with Lowe, JJ, Vazquez, KK and Hanson ahead of him, with Medlen & Hudson also ahead of him
bigjoe - June 3, 2009
At 21...
it’s hard to be throwing a word like never around about his tools. He could bulk up some and develop some power, and he’s been a successful base-stealer in three of his four minor league years.
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
Agreed
There’s no need to trash the guys that are leaving just to make the trade seem better for the Braves. They gave up three high-upside players for a productive, economical player just entering his prime. Good trade for both teams.
buzzdeadwax - June 3, 2009
Basically we traded Gorkys for A very cheap mclouth
graf - June 3, 2009
Now Schafer is blocked
Another trade coming?
Would Schafer and Jojo be good for Holliday? Or am I just crazy?
esadb - June 3, 2009
Im sure one of them can move to lf or rf
Doghnut - June 3, 2009
We went from dead to flush in the outfield.
Nate in center, Jeff in right, move Heyward over to left next year.
Holy Crap.
filmgeek83 - June 3, 2009
flush and jeff dont belong together
unless youre talking about a toilet…
Doghnut - June 3, 2009
Jeff doesn’t have to carry the load anymore.
filmgeek83 - June 3, 2009
Oh, i see
so, he wont suck anymore? really?
Doghnut - June 3, 2009
FUGA will be gone for sure next year so McLouth can play LF.
VictorW - June 4, 2009
schafer is not necessarily blocked im pretty sure mclouth can play all 3 positions
bravesguy95 - June 3, 2009
I dont think they would move that gold glove.
esadb - June 3, 2009
McLouth's glove
is overrated in CF. He gets alot of praise because of his diving catches and web-gems – but JS is a better CF than McLouth right now.
Hizilla - June 3, 2009
From what I’ve seen of Shafer, It’d be hard to make me believe McLouth is better. And moving him to left shouldn’t make him any less of a defender.
SunDolphin - June 3, 2009
+1
McLouth is an ok CF…he’ll be better in one of the corners when Schafer is ready.
Little Lady - June 3, 2009
Yea agree
Clearly McLouth will be playing CF for the near future – but I imagine he ends the season over in LF – where he has plus plus defense.
Hizilla - June 3, 2009
Yes...
101 games between LR and RF combined.
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
and this is a great pickup…gorkys is not a sure thing and mclouth already is, plus hes only 26
bravesguy95 - June 3, 2009
Wow! First I see the Glavine news when I turned the TV on, and then, I see this when I log on! I guess this means that the Braves are not going after Holliday in a trade. This is a tough trade to call considering that McLouth is not playing as well this year. It is still a decent power upgrade and he’s got good speed around the bases. I guess we’ll all just have to wait and see how this goes, but at least McLouth should not be bolting after this season…or even next season…
ATLDuck - June 3, 2009
You people need to get your fucking heads out of your asses...
THIS TRADE IS A STEAL
sdp - June 3, 2009
agreed
bravesguy95 - June 3, 2009
Agreed.
Even if i did like Gorkys a lot
esadb - June 3, 2009
Amen Brother, these are prospects that we traded away with the exception of Morton. This is a huge steal we just raped the pirates.
That a boy - June 3, 2009
Raped the Pirates!!! Aaaarrrrrgghhhhh!!!!
ATLDuck - June 3, 2009
LOL
Yakker - June 3, 2009
+10
KAPTHENEWBIE - June 3, 2009
+1
Love the deal. And plus…my dad’s a Pirates fan. HAHAHAHA I just called him and he was so pissed!
nickfeely8 - June 3, 2009
this
+1
beeswax - June 3, 2009
Yes.
I’ll miss Morton, but at least he’s only going to the Pirates…less pressure. I’ll still root for him.
Little Lady - June 3, 2009
This.
timmy3 - June 3, 2009
What does that mean?
This.
hoboken_wood - June 3, 2009
“I agree with the above post”
bigjoe - June 3, 2009
This
Yakker - June 3, 2009
This
is going to be the next TC meme, I can feel it. whenever people ask what “This” means, all responses are going to be “this”
royhobbs - June 4, 2009
This
sddbaker - June 4, 2009
It doesn’t quite apply to normal human conversation. Whenever my friends say something I agree with and i say “this”, they look at me weird.. haha
McGriff the Crime Dog - June 4, 2009
I wouldn’t be surprised if he went straight into the Pirates rotation
beeswax - June 3, 2009
I really hope so.
I want Charlie to get his shot and to succeed.
Little Lady - June 4, 2009
AMEN!!!
I wonder if all of the people who weep for Gorkys Hernandez are doing so because they have watched him play or thay are just parroting what they have read in a fantasy baseball book. This is a GREAT acquisition! He might not come in with as great an impact as when Fred McGriff was acquired but this is quite a move! I would not go as far as to say that the Braves are done. If they still have the pieces in place to acquire a Holiday or other competent middle of the order hitter (hopefully, RH hitter) they can do so.
Mike de La Hoz - June 3, 2009
Do we...
Try to pawn off Schafer now and look at a future outfield of Heyward-McLouth-FYF (or FA replacement)?
Or do you think they’ll maybe move McLouth and have Heyward-Schafer-Nate?
nickfeely8 - June 3, 2009
Hopefully Nate-Schafer-Heyward
That would be a fantastic young and dynamic defense who also has a lot of offensive ability. Schafer has a much brighter future ahead of him than Frenchy, sad to say but true.
BravesRaleigh - June 3, 2009
So what of Cody Johnson?
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
He's still a few years away
He’s continued to improve, and needs to cut down on the K’s, and now there’s no need to rush him.
buzzdeadwax - June 3, 2009
OK...
just interested. He’s not any younger than Heyward.
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
Agreed
Charmin519 - June 3, 2009
yr right.
good deal.
Meatloafin' - June 3, 2009
Also agreed
Everyone was crying for outfield help, and we got it in a young guy a few years away from free agency with pop, speed, defense, and a manageable contract. What am I missing here?
chantshuffler - June 3, 2009
This
Yakker - June 3, 2009
I see guys always making the comment "This"
I guess I don’t really understand it. Little help would be appreciated.
Charmin519 - June 3, 2009
it means +1
didnt you ask that somewhere else? Maybe im mistaken…
Doghnut - June 3, 2009
I don't think I did
If I did then it was a non sober event. Thanks for your help.
Charmin519 - June 3, 2009
Talking about steals
Check Mclouth’s steals. He is very efficient stealing bases. This year he is 7 SB 0 CS. And he is 64 SB 5 CS for his career for a 92.75% success rate. So the Braves got a much needed base stealer too.
Alvaro Andres Pizza Varela - June 3, 2009
...if Bobby lets him
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
He ran with Furcal, I can’t imagine he won’t run with Nate
Smoltz's Beard - June 3, 2009
Great point. I remember reading about McLouth and he said he needs to steal more often. Stealing only 20 some bases at 90%+ is really freaking good good, but he’s capable of stealing 40-50+ at 80% and that’s probably better.
VictorW - June 4, 2009
lol, so subtle
Smoltz's Beard - June 3, 2009
Regarding the Gold Glove
I’ve heard “experts” (mainly Keith Law) say that McClouth should NOT have gotten the gold glove, he’s not spectacular in the OF but he’s good.
Dandrews - June 3, 2009
I remember he made some crazy plays against the Braves last year.
esadb - June 3, 2009
UZR, +/-, and PMR don’t like McLouth’s defense. But he’s a good bat and cheap.
VictorW - June 4, 2009
Hell YES
He is pretty much what the Braves were looking for. I love this trade!
Andy Braves Fan - June 3, 2009
agreed
was a huge steal for us
BOBBYCOX - June 3, 2009
I am not huge on this trade
Nevertheless this is a pretty good trade
Gorkys = Schafer
Morton is blocked
Now Jeff Locke I am not thrilled about losing, because I thought he had high upside, but with our pitching is good enough to win this year.
The real question how does McLouth translate to Turner Field, smiliar to PNC as far as power numbers?
UltimaParadox - June 3, 2009
60 career hr for mcLouth 30 at pnc and 30 away
BOBBYCOX - June 3, 2009
I like Gorkys, but Schafer is way better. Gorkys is Schafer without the walks and power.
VictorW - June 4, 2009
this.
MichaelProcton - June 4, 2009
YES!
This can only be a positive.
Morton and Locke were never going to be anything for us, with Locke having more of a chance to contribute but definitely not a sure thing.
Basically, because of our pitching depth in the minors and majors, this is a Gorkys for Nate deal with spare parts.
And I’m down with that.
McLouth isn’t necessarily a rental. He could man center for us for a long time considering he’s only 26, and while Gorkys is an awesome prospect, you never know how he’ll be. I’ll take a proven all-star at the major league level at a young-ish age over a very young OF prospect with all-star potential.
Love the deal.
nickfeely8 - June 3, 2009
Also...
clearly this means the Pirates want to unblock McCutchen and let him come up and play.
nickfeely8 - June 3, 2009
I like the deal
Seriously people are bitching about this, but McClouth is a pretty darn good hitter, adds some speed to the team, plays decent defense, is cheap, and all we give up is Morton, Gorkys (who we really don’t need in our future with McLouth, Heyward, and Schafer), and Locke. I like all three as prospects but none are even close to guarantees to fulfill their potential and we get a young, cheap outfielder who adds a nice bat to the lineup to go along with the callup of Hanson. This is not a rental so I have no problem paying this price. Good deal Wren.
was385 - June 3, 2009
great point
about it not being a rental so that we can give up a little more.
We have to be careful as fans not to overvalue our prospects.
I mean, Gorkys is an awesome outfield prospect. But now with Nate, we can have a future of Schafer and Heyward and we don’t need Gorkys as much.
Locke and Morton are good prospects but we’re dealing from a strength (minor league pitching) to a huge weakness (Major League outfielding), which is exactly what Frank should be doing.
nickfeely8 - June 3, 2009
and frankly...
OF is one of our organizational strength too.
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
exactly
that’s why I stressed Major League outfielding and not OF in the organization as a whole. I liked all of our prospects, Gorkys, Schafer, Heyward, Johnson, etc. in the outfield, but we have the team to win now, especially with a pitching staff that won’t get any younger, so what’s the point in waiting for ALL of them to pan out when we need someone who can contribute right away. Now we get someone who can be a plus on the team now and even after the aforementioned prospects come up, and it’s not like we’re gutting our organization at the positions we gave up.
It’s by the book trading, dealing from strengths to get weaknesses, and I think Frank nailed it.
nickfeely8 - June 4, 2009
absolutely
We would have given up twice as much for Holliday and only have him for the rest of the year. This deal is solid.
beeswax - June 3, 2009
Too bad I cant say he has the same amount of homeruns for the Braves as FUGA
I mean GA must have seen this trade coming, he has had two jacks already.
UltimaParadox - June 3, 2009
Wait, wait, wtf
What will we complain about now?
esadb - June 3, 2009
Every silver lining...
has a cloud,a nd it will be found. Soon.
sddbaker - June 4, 2009
Don't fret.
We still have Francouer : )
McGriff the Crime Dog - June 4, 2009
And boy, oh, boy did Schaefer ever play bad last night for Gwinnett.
:)
MichaelProcton - June 4, 2009
Speed is only great when you use it
I doubt he will steal more than 25 bases for the Braves, dont kid ourselves this guy was traded for a hopeful 25Hrs
UltimaParadox - June 3, 2009
We’ll use it. McLouth doesn’t get caught stealing..
timmy3 - June 3, 2009
I hope so
UltimaParadox - June 3, 2009
true
We would be lucky if he got that number, with as little as Cox sends the runners, lol.
mad_dog_maddux - June 3, 2009
I like this trade, but I need some time to let it all sink in.
I think we’ll see a Schafer-Mclouth-Heyward OF very soon.
timmy3 - June 3, 2009
I feel the same.
get swoll yunel - June 3, 2009
It's a steal
He has more RBIs, HRs, and Steals than anyone else on our team. His numbers aren’t spectacular, which is sad, but it’s a much needed improvement.
SunDolphin - June 3, 2009
And....
This may help it make it easier to get rid of Frenchie if he doesn’t improve, but if he starts hitting homeruns like last night….
SunDolphin - June 3, 2009
.256/.349/.470/.819 9HR playing a pretty good CF
I’ll freaking take it for that package as he is not a rental.
Question is, does he lead off or hit cleanup? Kind of sad that he has the most speed and power on the team, well maybe not more than Chipper/McCann, but close.
bbxxj - June 3, 2009
Bucs Dugout
is pissed, as they should be…. Love the deal.
BlueVol03 - June 3, 2009
steal of a trade.
Guy is young with plenty of talent, and is proven.
Tim Goad - June 3, 2009
gondeee
I love you man, but you overvalue our prospects a bit too much.
get swoll yunel - June 3, 2009
Split Stats from last year (Easily best year of career)
BA HR OBP SLG
Vs Left: .261BA 3HR .322OBP .388SLG
Vs Right: .282BA 23HR .368OBP .539SLG
Home: .265BA 15HR .348OBP .511SLG
Away: .289BA 11HR .364OBP .482SLG
Turner Field Line
.357/.400/.714/1.114
UltimaParadox - June 3, 2009
Anymore Deals?
Does anyone think that Wren isn’t done wheelin’ and dealin’ yet?
ATLDuck - June 3, 2009
He is not done.
DO YOU SMELLLLL WHAT THE WREN IS COOKIN’!!!!!!!!
Mike de La Hoz - June 3, 2009
Yeah, he saved some coin by releasing Glavine so I’m interested to see what he can come up with.
ATLDuck - June 3, 2009
Yup
Called it earlier. FW is sackin up and goin for it.
Yakker - June 3, 2009
When they announced the trade on the radio, they said it in a way that made me think other deals were in the works.
beeswax - June 3, 2009
I hope he’s not done, maybe an under the radar bench or middle relief move.
Jessero - June 3, 2009
I can see Bennett being released and Medlen being moved into the bullpen
beeswax - June 3, 2009
Bennet > Carlyle
UltimaParadox - June 3, 2009
that’s kinda like saying
cancer > aids
beeswax - June 3, 2009
lol
lol
lol
lol
lol
Charmin519 - June 3, 2009
You have a point, but I will say cancer is > aids in this case
UltimaParadox - June 3, 2009
im just a big retard
Outfield of Mcclouth, holliday, and FYF/FUGA
esadb - June 3, 2009
wren
from the interview on peachtree today during the 3rd inning of the game frank said there will still be talks about getting more deals…….. but he doesnt seam to liekly to ship away any more prospects he is very happy with the trade …
BOBBYCOX - June 3, 2009
I see a Willingham type deal near the deadline if FYF is still doin his thing.
soup du jour - June 3, 2009
I like that idea.
Smoltz's Beard - June 3, 2009
Another vet pen arm?
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
or a Daryle Ward-type vet PH?
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
Steal of a deal
Power and speed the two things we needed the most, what else do you want people.
Jessero - June 3, 2009
I mean is Albert Pujols too much to ask?
UltimaParadox - June 3, 2009
I lold
mad_dog_maddux - June 3, 2009
What about Greg White
I would imagine he is almost out of options?
UltimaParadox - June 3, 2009
This trade and releasing Glavine are good moves. The Braves have been on the verge of being good all year. The way things were going tho, they where going to start falling behind the Phils if they did not make any moves soon. Now we have a little more power in the OF and the future Tommy instead of the past Tommy. I for one am excited.
Slee - June 3, 2009
For those worrying that this will block Schafer
That shouldn’t be the case at all. McLouth can eventually move over to RF/LF where his glove will play better anyway (Schaf is almost certainly the superior CF defensively, gold gloves be damned).
This was a really solid deal.
Frank Wren has been doing great.
get swoll yunel - June 3, 2009
+1
Agree with everything you’ve said.
Little Lady - June 3, 2009
+1
VictorW - June 4, 2009
career .800 OPS players do not grow on trees, great trade.
FYFs LOBs - June 3, 2009
fyf
I’m kinda thinking Frenchy’s days in Atlanta are numbered with this trade. Anyone else getting that vibe?
beeswax - June 3, 2009
Yeah if he is a cancer about being sent down to the minors, I guess we could give him to the Royals
UltimaParadox - June 3, 2009
It’s a possibility because even if he plays better, than increases his value and makes him more appealing for other teams like Boston. Damn, I wish he can just turn it around especially after last night.
ATLDuck - June 3, 2009
I dont see why Boston would be interested. He is not that valuable as a PH or a 4th outfielder
UltimaParadox - June 3, 2009
I don’t either but that has been the rumor though. Maybe because JD Drew has been hurting again?
ATLDuck - June 3, 2009
I think Baldelli has had some health issues this season, too.
ATLDuck - June 3, 2009
but surely they can find someone better....
Doghnut - June 3, 2009
Those guys crap money so they can afford to go after almost anyone, hope to see if they turn it around, and cut him loose if it doesn’t work out. Wait, that sounds like what they’re doing with Smoltz!
ATLDuck - June 3, 2009
I don’t see why any team would be interested.
McGriff the Crime Dog - June 4, 2009
Frenchy will be sent for Delmon Young. Watch.
graf - June 3, 2009
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO DELMON YOUNG! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NO!!!!!!!!!!
McCannsMuscle - June 3, 2009
at this point
The best we can expect for a trade in a trade for Frenchy is a minor league bullpen arm. maybe
beeswax - June 3, 2009
Or a bus ticket to Gwinnett
Yakker - June 3, 2009
This trade looks better and better
Real leadoff hitter
Good Defense
Fills in the black hole that is the outfield
good OBP
Affordable
only 28, in his prime
Traded away:
Morton, who is probably not an ace, maybe a 3 spot ceiling
Hernandez, who is fine, but still hasn’t hit for power, and is blocked, and is far away
Locke, who wasn’t great, and very very far away.
Andy Braves Fan - June 3, 2009
For a guy who suppose to supply the power think he will hit leadoff?
UltimaParadox - June 3, 2009
It could still be effective there...
He could give a leadoff power threat (30 career HR in the leadoff spot in about a season’s worth of games, and he could help support the back end of the lineup when those guys get on. Kelly and Yunel have shown that there’s run producing to be done before you get to 3-4-5.
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
Love this!
Great trade. Can’t wait to talk to my best friend who bleeds for the Pirates and loves McClouth…he’s gonna be po’ed.
WienerDog - June 3, 2009
I don't get this?
Basically we just gave up three good upside fairly sought after prospects for Garrett Anderson age 33 type production. Has FYF really made us this desperate? Look it up, better yet – click the links:
Nate McLouth
Garrett Anderson
scstrato - June 3, 2009
We dont need Morton.
Locke has sucked the last two years.
Gorkys is blocked and you have to give up atleast one good player to get a good player.
Nate mccouth is good and nothing like Leon was at 33
esadb - June 3, 2009
It's called the playoffs
We haven’t seen it for awhile so I understand your sudden loss of memory. The braves are in contention this year but needed a more consistent play maker with power potential to make a real push. This doesn’t make us the favorite in the east but it truly throws it up in the air.
Charmin519 - June 3, 2009
1. He plays CF
2. He isn’t getting paid 11M like GA was
3. OBP is more valuable than slugging
4. Superior ISO slugging for a team desperate for extra base hits
5. 90%+ SB rate
6. Age 33 what? .283/.308/.435?!
VictorW - June 4, 2009
+1
Six good reasons.
McGriff the Crime Dog - June 4, 2009
McLouth is an immediate impact. He’ll allow the Braves to compete aggressively for the division right away. Even though Gorkys has upside, he’s still a year or two away from paying dividends, and there is certain risk that his talent won’t carry over in the big leagues (being an A’s fan, I’ve seen enough of this with Billy Beane’s trades). I say this was a good deal the more you think about it, and I say that ATL takes this division!
ATLDuck - June 3, 2009
Stealin from the Steel City
Huge, winner trade for FW. Dude’s having a great day so far…
Yakker - June 3, 2009
+1
VictorW - June 4, 2009
Wren just on the radio...
…Said Medlen’s going to the bullpen.
beeswax - June 3, 2009
Minaya just on radio
…said looks like they’re gonna focus on 2010…
Yakker - June 3, 2009
Whoa…are you serious?
ATLDuck - June 3, 2009
No
Yakker - June 3, 2009
That would’ve been great…or maybe 2015!
ATLDuck - June 3, 2009
LOL
Yeah, can you imagine…
Radio guy: "Omar, breaking news…Braves just traded three minor league guys not named Hanson or Heyward for Nate McLouth…reaction?
Omar: “*&@#$%….there goes this year.”
Yakker - June 3, 2009
Oh, and
Remember that deal that FW supposedly had on his desk all winter for an impact OF Bat? I wonder if this was it…
Yakker - June 3, 2009
I think we are still one bat away
Perhaps we can still hang around the top of the division with Mclouth
UltimaParadox - June 3, 2009
If we replace Failcoeur with anything it will take us a long ways too. Maybe Schafer can get himself right and become the player he was in ST and do that for us from July on.
timmy3 - June 3, 2009
What about bringing back Jermaine Dye?
ATLDuck - June 3, 2009
No
reason: $$$$.
soup du jour - June 3, 2009
Doh!
ATLDuck - June 3, 2009
Failcouer for a bag of funyans perhpas?
mad_dog_maddux - June 3, 2009
Make it 2 bags, and a diet soda.
Bronn - June 3, 2009
Only if you get the other GM drunk/stoned first
buzzdeadwax - June 3, 2009
hahaha
genuinely laughed for a while about that
McGriff the Crime Dog - June 4, 2009
Hey
Another great thing about this deal…
Nate McLouth isn’t a Boras client!
Andy Braves Fan - June 3, 2009
I hope that he’s not an Arn Tellem client either.
ATLDuck - June 3, 2009
Mike Nicotera
whoever that is
was385 - June 3, 2009
+1,000,000
BravesRaleigh - June 3, 2009
Love the deal.
I think this deal sounds about right. Pirates get some project players and an unproven Morton. Braves get a solid bat.
He should offer some help for Chipper and McCann. Can’t pitch around three guys!
Sparhawk - June 3, 2009
I think I’ll take the middle ground between scstrato and the rest of us. I don’t think this is a steal, but I don’t think we gave up too much either. McClouth isn’t the impact bat that a Dunn would be, but is much superior to the Willinghams of the world. I also think the money works out really nicely with McClouth and Wren’s hands were probably tied on the bottom line; look how he had to unceremoniously dump a serviceable Glavine knowing full well that it would be a nice little PR gaffe!
I do have to say that I’m a big fan of Morton’s, and hope he gets the opportunity to step into their rotation right now. I also wish all of our guys well in Pittsburgh (except against us!).
soup du jour - June 3, 2009
I would have loved to keep Morton, but the Braves are lucky to have a lot of starting pitching depth this year. Hopefully he’ll excel with the Pirates.
Sparhawk - June 3, 2009
Oh, yeah, definitely. “Spare part” is harsh for Morton, but he was undoubtedly far down the depth chart. I am a big fan of Morton as a player, but more so as a person. Cool dude (although I only met him twice).
Locke has been pretty bi-polar, but has the potential. Gorkys the same. Only time will tell, I suppose. One major point is that this is early June. We payed more to get him this early in the season.
soup du jour - June 3, 2009
Don't get me wrong
I agree the three we gave up were expendable, that’s not my argument. Just that I would have preferred someone with a little better track record or at least someone who was having a good year.
scstrato - June 3, 2009
Wait...
An 815 OPS with run production better than anybody on our team on a nearly identical offense from a CF isn’t a good year? His BA is driven down by a low BABIP.
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
Let me make this clear
I do not consider an .815 OPS “good” when it costs me three of my organizations top 20/25 prospects. I could care less about his BA, and his BABIP as well, i’m looking at it from a net runs perspective. I just don’t think he’s worth what we paid.
Clear as mud?
scstrato - June 3, 2009
His OPS is higher than what Gorkys is posting at AA. Also higher than Gorkys posted last year at A+. Better than the entire outfield in Atlanta. And the great news is that McLouth is right at or reaching his prime, and we control him for the next several years for a decent price.
I really have no problem with Jeff Locke being included because he’s at the same level as a lot of other good pitching prospects (Cordier, Osuna, Rohrbough, Kimbrel). Odds are, at least one of those works out, and looking at those along with Lowe, JJ, Hanson, Medlen, Parr, and Redmond, I think the Braves can find 5 starters for the next 4-5 years. So, I simply feel that one of those pitchers at Myrtle HAD to be trade bait, and perhaps Locke won’t be the only guy to be moved.
Morton is probably going to be a pretty good pitcher. But I’ve already commented on the aforementioned pitching depth, without even mentioning Tim Hudson, KK, or Vazquez, all of whom are controlled through 2010, at which point Charlie Morton will be 27. There’s simply no chance for Morton to break through as a starter in Atlanta, which is ultimately where his destiny lies.
Bronn - June 4, 2009
Don’t forget we’re about to bring in another arm in 5 days that will likely enter our organization as a top 5 prospect.
timmy3 - June 4, 2009
Charlie Morton isn’t a prospect FYI
bigjoe - June 4, 2009
Lead off or 3rd?
My first thinking was this is our #3 and move Chipper to 4 and McCann to 5th. In some ways this makes the line up make much more sense up and down.
However, after really thinking about it more I t hink you bat him Lead off. I think the best protection they can provide to Chipper is to get men on base in front of him. If McClouth is getting on base at a .360 clip and Yunel is on at a .367 clip …they should be on a lot to set up Chipper.
Overall…really like the deal…especially given the reasonable nature of his contract.
calbers - June 3, 2009
+11111
SayHeyWerd - June 3, 2009
not to mention
KJ is said to be better lower in the order
i could see a
McClouth
Esco
Chip
Mac/GA
Mac/GA
KJ
Koth
Frechy
Pitcher
bravesfan1047 - June 3, 2009
More radical idea...
After watching Frenchy K out with the bases loaded….send Frenchy to AAA. No bitching..no whining…go figure it out.
Leave Blanco up…let him play RF (yes..I realize that is probably not a legit RF with the arm but he can be passable). I have watched his ABs again tonight and still think he could be a contributor to our club. He sees so many pitches and works the count so effectively. I think he could come up and hit with an OBP of .350 or .360 again. You could bat him 8th..but what if you did this…
1. Blanco
2. Escobar
3. McClouth
4. Chipper
5. McCann
6. Johnson
7. Kotchman
8. Diaz/Anderson
I realize that is a lot of lefties ..but 1) that is what the Braves have and 2) Mac, KJ, and Kotchman all hit lefties well. However, I think that if Blanco can get on base at a .350 clip and allow McClouth to hit 3rd..it would dramaticlly alter our line up. (Or at least his offensive addition with the subtraction of Frenchy’s offense would be a big plus).
Regardless …looking at the numbers…Frenchy isn’t getting better. Might as well get a fresh start with the trade and send him down NOW!
calbers - June 3, 2009
That lineup is borderline insane. Blanco is probably a downgrade from FYF
bigjoe - June 3, 2009
You can make an argument about it..
But I clearly said that this was based on Blanco getting on base at a .350+ clip. If Blanco does that …makes contact….sees alot of pitches..etc.
He has more value then Frenchy. Besides…Frenchy needs to go down to the minors. He can’t hit MLB pitching right now.
calbers - June 3, 2009
Why would you start Blanco and not play him in CF?
Yakker - June 3, 2009
McLouth’s got more range, and Gregory probably has a better arm.
MichaelProcton - June 4, 2009
Blanco’s arm is pathetic. He has a noodle.
timmy3 - June 4, 2009
I guess he gets the most out of it?
I remember him getting a decent number of assists last year? Maybe teams weren’t scared to challenge him.
MichaelProcton - June 4, 2009
What else would you expect from Francoeur with the bases loaded?
I guess GIDP is an option if there are less than two outs.
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
fingers crossed for HBP is what i usually do
McGriff the Crime Dog - June 4, 2009
That’s what I was hoping for last night
Smoltz's Beard - June 4, 2009
Blanco actually played a lot of RF early in his career when he was always paired with Carlos Duran. He used to have a cannon, but now he’s got a pea shooter. I have no idea what happened to his arm. Still, I’d be for this, cause it would get #7 out of the lineup.
cbwilk - June 3, 2009
Lineupbation
Escobar, McLouth, Chipper, McCann, Johnson, Kotchman, FUGA, FYF, Pitcher
Saber lineupbation:
Escobar, Jones, Johnson, McCann, McLouth, Kotchman, FUGA, Pitcher, FYF
Wow that’s a lot of lefties in a row. I should fix that.
VictorW - June 4, 2009
Chipper’s a switch hitter!
Smoltz's Beard - June 4, 2009
are you sure? you should really check your facts, being so new and all…
Lizziebeth - June 4, 2009
Don’t you have to be ambidextrous to switch hit?!
VictorW - June 4, 2009
I think you mean amphibious.
MichaelProcton - June 4, 2009
DeRosa
Mark DeRosa back to ATL may still happen. Cleveland isn’t going anywhere this season. He’s still got decent pop.
ATLDuck - June 3, 2009
If Failcoeur continues to fail:
1. We trade for DeRosa.
2. If Schafer starts to turn it around we put him back in CF and McLouth in RF and have a kickass 2/3 defense in the OF.
bbxxj - June 3, 2009
and we pray
that Heyward is ready for LF in 2010
beeswax - June 3, 2009
Short leash on Frenchy though. We can’t afford to wait around and let the Phillies pull away.
ATLDuck - June 3, 2009
I can't imagine
how you deal for DeRosa at this point. McLouth is here until 2011 and DeRosa is a free agent after this year.
Who are the Braves willing to give up for what would be a rental now? Likely not what the Indians would want. Presuming Blanco stays, you also need to get rid of two guys among Anderson/Diaz/Francoeur. Easier said than done.
hoboken_wood - June 3, 2009
Great trade
Morton could be a AAAA guy, Locke is regressing and Gorky’s is a singles hitter with poor base stealing ratios and questionable on base skills. I’ll take the proven player that is signed through ’12 anyday.
BBJ - June 3, 2009
?
Gorkys is at 79% SBs for his career and has never had an OBP below .340.
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
He's done a poor job stealing this year...
which is unusual for him. It leads me to believe he’s having some lingering effects from him hamstring injury last year.
Little Lady - June 4, 2009
His OBP this season is fueled by a very high BA and a .424 BABIP.
VictorW - June 4, 2009
…And a matching shit ton of line drives…
Not saying it’s all him hitting the ball hard, but that’s some of it.
timmy3 - June 4, 2009
More thoughts
This trade was so well packaged. Releasing Glavine, despite the fact that I know it was the best move for the team, is kind of a bummer, if only because of the fact that Glav is a legend. I have a feeling that the more sentimental Braves fans may even decry that as a bad move. He then adds some excitement by calling up Hanson immediately. Then knocks it out of the park with this trade.
I also have to wonder if last night’s win had anything to do with it. This move feels inspired. Wren saw that the team still had some fight. He saw needs in the bullpen and the outfield. Medlen moving to the bullpen solidifies the end of the game. McLouth solidifies the offense. All of this is financially good. This is just good stuff all around.
Andy Braves Fan - June 3, 2009
Not to mention
last night’s win put them back over .500.
Yakker - June 3, 2009
Which meant, of course...
That they had to lose tonight.
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
My bad
Yakker - June 3, 2009
with the help of some terrible fucking umps
McGriff the Crime Dog - June 4, 2009
Hmm...
I didn’t turn the game on until the 9th…what did I miss?
MichaelProcton - June 4, 2009
I didn’t turn it on until about the 6th, but it sounded like Lowe got hosed on a call and a couple batters later Fontenot hit a 2-RBI double. Not sure if the bad call occurred with 2 outs or not, maybe someone else can clarify.
That, and the home plate ump just had an incredibly inconsistent zone.
Smoltz's Beard - June 4, 2009
Good point..
I didn’t look at the idea of Medlen helping the bullpen..but you are right. I honestly believe that Medlen was called up in a showcase move. But I think the Braves realize that Medlen is best suited to the bullpn. If he can be a quality arm in the pen and Hanson does well it could pay big dividends.
calbers - June 3, 2009
Frank Wren’s got some king kong balls!
ATLDuck - June 3, 2009
McLouth
BOBBYCOX - June 3, 2009
Gorkys isn’t that bad. But yeah Morton looked like a AAAA pitcher. McLouth is a big league outfielder which is something the Braves haven’t had all year. Unlike our starting three for the first two months of the season he is not overmatched in the field, in the box or ,like the guy out right, overmatched in life.
rocket8188 - June 3, 2009
Given that GA is basically just finishing ST in terms of playing time...
It looks like he could join McLouth as a ML-quality OF.
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
Blanco
After watching him bunt himself on base and then haul around the bases on that double…I really think he could be a help. Eve if he was hitting in the 8 hole his speed could be used well when he is bunted over by the pitcher.
calbers - June 3, 2009
Basic Fact
I think when it really comes down to the brass tacks, this was a win for the Bravos. Simple as that, huge improvement in the outfield. The positives just outweigh the so called negatives. Nuff Said
mad_dog_maddux - June 3, 2009
Well, the move the Braves made today that affects the active roster was to add Brian Barton, the OF we got from the Cardinals for Boyer, and do something (I don’t what, but he’s off the active roster) with Buddy Carlyle. You have to figure that Greg White goes back down to make room for McLouth, but who’s out to accommodate Hanson?
Tokyokie - June 3, 2009
Barton
I just feel that Barton is just fodder to be called back down when Hanson comes up perhaps?
mad_dog_maddux - June 3, 2009
Remember this team still needs a RH bat some where in the OF ..Maybe Barton could be the fill in till we can find or trade for willingham type. This line up will HEAVILY LH and needs some RH balance in the line up for sure. Something that will have to be address for sure
Hanson-Ace - June 3, 2009
A guy with a 623 OPS in AAA isn't gonna be that guy.
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
Carlyle was on the DL a week or so ago.
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
Rushing Heyward
I am a little concerned about the number of people pushing for Heyward this year..or in 2010. He is only 19 and is A ball right now. I personally don’t want to see him in Atlanta (besides a Sept call up) until 2011…at the earliest. Poor Jordan got pushed to fast and suffered. Frenchy was probably called up too soon as well.
Please…please please…..WAIT ..DO NOT RUSH HIM!
calbers - June 3, 2009
The people calling for Heyward are either A) retarded or B) kidding
bigjoe - June 3, 2009
With Blanco (presumably) gone, I think Barton gives the team a CF off the bench so we don’t have to see Diaz out there again.
Tokyokie - June 3, 2009
He's only ever played two games there.
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
Apparently, Carlyle was place on the DL last week, and Campillo activated in his place, but Campillo went back on the DL today, without making an appearance to my knowledge, thus creating the roster spot for Barton.
Tokyokie - June 3, 2009
Yeah. This has been established
bigjoe - June 3, 2009
I think it was a good trade. Listen i like Gorkys alot i actually like him more than Schafer in the long run BUT you know McLouth is good and he will help us and he is young so im ok with this good trade, it helps us now and in the future. I like Morton as well but he is a spare part we have other guys better. And then i like Locke but i like Rohrbough more and we keep him so hey im fine with this deal. Good Job Frank Wren. This was a very smart trade, sure those guys are good but there is a chance that they dont make it to the majors or they dont do nearly as good as expected in the majors. McLouth will help us big time.
rockybull - June 3, 2009
Wow I think I actually called this a while back. Not the specifics, but I know I said at some point that McLouth was one of the more sensible options we had. Sweet. I like the trade. Gorkys and Locke were traded at peak value.
yondaime4 - June 3, 2009
Wren not done?
When i saw this trade it got me thinking we could actually have a real lineup!! What would you guys think of acquiring CoCo Crisp from the Royals? I know he doesn’t have power numbers that we are looking for but he would be a great leadoff guy with plus Defense for us and allowing McLouth to hit 5th and give McCann protection.
Even though Crisp is only hitting .233 his OBP is .344 and is 12th in the AL in BB’s with 27 and 8th in the AL in SB’s. He has a career .277 avg… This would give us the fastest OF by far with having 3 CF’s playing.
You guys already probaby said no but who do you think it would take to get him FYF and someone else for Crisp?
The only bad thing is if Crisp hit leadoff we would have to many Lefties in a row at the bottom of the lineup.
braves077 - June 3, 2009
And his BA is low because of a low BABIP...
But methinks $5.75 mil is a bit much for what he provides.
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
Guys (and gals)
McCloth has 9 HRs, he’s not leading off.
Best part of this deal is the duration for which he’s signed. Biggest problem with prospect for rental deals is they’re just that, for rentals. Almost always never worth it, but this is great. We have a CF this year and a LF/RF till ’12 if his option is picked up, and we gave up nothing we needed to get him.
I’m curious how the lineup will look. Garret, Brian, Kelly, and Nate are all LH. Will Chipper be usurped from the 3 spot to go 4th between Nate and McCann?! Will Garret get moved behind Francouer to split up LH/RH as well? Gregor Blanco and Kelly are both LHB too so who bats leadoff won’t change things further down the lineup. Jordan’s LH too for note.
l0stnumber - June 3, 2009
And I mucked up. McCloth means no Gregor, durr.
l0stnumber - June 3, 2009
you never know
McClouth could play (and has played) RF. I think Frenchy’s days may be numbered. Keep Blanco in CF (until Schafer works out whatever he needs to).
beeswax - June 3, 2009
This is just me, but I’d take Francouer over Blanco in the lineup. I hate his guts now but since he knows his stay in ATL is on borrowed time he’ll start to care a little more and maybe even preform like an average OF. I just hope regardless of what he does he isn’t the longterm solution. If he hits 90 HRs from here to September, trade him. As soon as he gets his guaranteed money from any club he’ll be worthless again (and I used to love the guy too).
Down the road I want to see the OF of McClouth – Schafer – Heyward.
l0stnumber - June 3, 2009
Thank goodness...
he turned down the chance to be getting it already from us.
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
As opposed to McLouth??
Sorry to nitpick on the spelling…
hoboken_wood - June 3, 2009
Well played
I’ve been doing that misspelling all day regrettably.
l0stnumber - June 3, 2009
Nate McClouth hangs out with Jair Jurrgens, Tommy Hansen, Javier Vasquez, and Logan Shaver.
VictorW - June 4, 2009
Jarred Jurggens
Smoltz's Beard - June 4, 2009
And don’t forget Francour!
McGriff the Crime Dog - June 4, 2009
It’s Francouer. Get it right!
timmy3 - June 4, 2009
No, that’s a different guy.
McGriff the Crime Dog - June 4, 2009
Wren talked about how McLouth gave the Braves a leadoff hitter. Thus, he will be hitting leadoff
bigjoe - June 3, 2009
l0stnumber - June 3, 2009
He has a career OPS of .766 hitting in the 3 hole. If you put him in the 3 hole, you’re begging for a failure. He’s hitting 1 or 2, and Escobar will be in the other slot. Its as simple as that.
bigjoe - June 3, 2009
Not necessarily in favor of putting him in the 3. Merely making a talking point of splitting up LHs in the lineup. On this team, where he nearly doubles all the second place guys in HRs, I just can’t agree with him hitting leadoff. 2 is far more agreeable (because FW is seeking my approval I know).
l0stnumber - June 3, 2009
I approve of the 2 slot. Oh Pujols I really hope we don’t waste those home runs in the leadoff slot Alfonso Soriano, Grady Sizemore, or Hanley Ramirez (before 2009) style.
VictorW - June 4, 2009
I’d like to see him hit 5th… It would give McCann some better pitches to see and he could fulfill that role that Faily could never really handle even when he was decent… Driving in all the good hitters. And he could act as a sort of second leadoff hitter for the back half of the lineup that isn’t gelling the way our 1-4 guys have, and he can be the guy that scores from 1st on a Kotchman double (bat Kotch 6th), or steal a bag and manufacture a run.
They won’t do it like this… But that’s how I’d do it. Leave the 1-4 intact they’re raking.
timmy3 - June 4, 2009
LOL...
Faily.
MichaelProcton - June 4, 2009
Why not?
Kelly and Yunel have shown there are run producing opportunities for guys who aren’t hitting 3-4-5.
MichaelProcton - June 3, 2009
I conceded a 2 spot, what do you want from me?! I just don’t want the leadoff hitter to be the team leader in HRs. I think the concept of a leadoff hitter is overrated because as Curtis Granderson once said, you may only hit leadoff once a game. Despite that the backend of ATL’s lineup is Francouer, back-ups and the pitcher, meaning there won’t usually be anyone on base for the 1 slot.
l0stnumber - June 3, 2009
regarding McLouth not McClouth-(come on guys hes a brave now get it right)
u said hes not hitting leadoff he has 9 hr im not sure on his stats last year but i do know he hit leadoff for the bucs 95% of the time last year and did a damn well good job………..thats like saying alfo shouldnt hit leadoff for the cubs…..
BOBBYCOX - June 4, 2009
30 HR in something like 180 games leading off
MichaelProcton - June 4, 2009
I would rather you put some damn periods in your sentences than worry about spelling his name correctly : P
McGriff the Crime Dog - June 4, 2009
FRANK WREN ON ESPN NOW TO TALK, TURN THERE TO CHECK IT OUT
bravesfan1047 - June 3, 2009
All you guys talking about how Gorkys was “blocked” you do realize that the guy “blocking” him was on a pace to strike out 200 times, right?
Lennox - June 3, 2009
Gorkys has struck out 54 times in 52 games (212AB) to 15 walks in AA, is slugging below .400, and is 10-18 in SB.
l0stnumber - June 3, 2009
And? That doesn’t change the fact that the guy “blocking” him is currently in AAA because he couldn’t hit an inside fastball.
Lennox - June 3, 2009
Jordan was allegedly playing through wrist injuries (and back issues? I’ve read both) and his backup had his hand broken. He was also rushed to the majors. Those AA stats are meant to emphasize a few key things about Gorkys so far this year: He strikes out a lot too, he doesn’t walk, he has no power, and his speed isn’t a constant base stealing threat. In my opinion he’s easily the most valuable thing we gave up in the McLouth trade relative to his future role in the organization and we got a solid CF in return for him. Even if Schafer busts we have a CF till at least ’11 who is proven in the majors, a 20/20 guy with topside of 30/30.
And damnit I will eventually learn to consistently spell McLouth. I learned Francoeur I can do this I know it.
l0stnumber - June 3, 2009
You’re missing the point.
You’re not “blocking” anyone, until you actually show that you’re a quality ML player.
Lennox - June 3, 2009
It’s moot because he was traded for a proven starter at his position. I also never said he was blocked, I only meant to point out Gorkys wasn’t on the fast track to the majors with Jordan struggling.
l0stnumber - June 3, 2009
There’s no reason to keep Gorkys when we have a CF named McLouth for this season and 2-3 more years and a better CF prospect waiting in AAA.
VictorW - June 4, 2009
Truth is, the only loss that stings is Morton. Based on his last year and a half (counting AFL) I really think he might become a solid #3, and maybe even peak as a #2 pitcher for some team. He’s got great stuff, and the only thing dragging him down in the lower levels was a lack of control.
His BB rates are trending downward and he’s still improving his change-up and slider. I’m imagining Pittsburgh gives the call very soon, and I predict he finishes the season with the team.
Bronn - June 3, 2009
Yea Morton is gonna be successful as long as he stays healthy. Last year when he got treated for his back he would pitch lights out then be horrible the next few games.
I really think he will be a good number 3 for them behind Snell.
Gorkys was blocked. Schafer had him blocked and they now have a CF that if Schafer never turns it around they dont have to worry.
I think FW will let this team play a week or so with McLouth and see if he wants to do more. If McLouth gives us that spark we have been missing and the offense clicks we will prob not see another trade
drumzalicious - June 3, 2009
They traded my homeboys, so from a personal, fan perspective, I’m kind of bummed, but really, this is probably better for Chuck Morton and Jeff Locke in the long run, and definitely makes the Braves a better team, so I’m all for it. Anyway, Nate McLouth is an all around great guy, so I’ve got no problem with picking him up.
cbwilk - June 3, 2009
glad to see your 2 cents on it.
Lizziebeth - June 4, 2009
Old pic from ST 2006:
cbwilk - June 4, 2009
Okay, I'm too curious now
Are you in the Braves organization or what? I’ve seen plenty of your posts implying that you have direct contact with our minor league players. I’m sure you’ve answered this before several times but this post makes me too curious to not ask any more.
McGriff the Crime Dog - June 4, 2009
cb goes to a shit ton of minor league games, talks to all the players, and alot of them know him.
10-4 - June 4, 2009
Yep. I sent Locke a text message last night, but he never got back to me. I think he’s trying to avoid all contact at the moment. Looking forward to seeing him with Lynchburg though, along with Pedro Alvarez.
cbwilk - June 5, 2009
Man I can't believe I missed this stuff today
I was about to go to bed and wanted to check the Braves game score and I see a post about dropping Glavine, calling up the son of Pujols, and trading for McLouth on Yahoo. I thought this was some crazy rosterbation, but turns out it was for real.
I don’t like McLouth’s defense, but it’s serviceable enough and he’s got a nice bat. Will give the Braves power (.200+ ISO), steals bases at a great clip, and and has a solid OBP. Plus he’s dirt cheap and signed for a few more years.
I think we gave up less than what Oakland gave up for Matt Holliday this off-season.
Oakland: Carlos Gonzalez, Huston Street, and Greg Smith
Atlanta: Gorkys Hernandez, Jeff Locke, and Charlie Morton
I’d say Gorkys + Morton cancels out with CarGon + Smith (with Morton being > Smith and GarGon > Gorkys) and Street has way more trade value than Locke.
VictorW - June 4, 2009
Nate McLouth for Charlie Morton, Gorkys Hernandez, and Jeff Locke.
It’s a good deal because the Braves locked up McLouth for three years with that increasing salary scheme. Pirates got some mediocre minor leaguers : Morton shows less potential than Parr, and he’ll likely end up long relief or 5th starter for the Pirates. He’ll run a 5ish ERA and after 3 months of rotation he’ll start walking as many as he strikes out (just like in AA). Gorkys has never lived up to his billing (Andruw Jones chapter 2 ?) and his ongoing underachievement concerns the Braves, so he makes good trade bait, and at best will make a utility outfielder. Locke came so highly touted, but I don’t see what all the fuss is about – he’s shown in AA and AAA that he’s no gold-glover, his swing technique still appears flawed, It appears Prado/Escobar will be there for the long haul and Infante the short term, then there leaves no room for a 4th utility player at the Ted, so if Locke ever lives up to that potential, then he’s likely destined to become a long term fixture for Duluth and only see occasional promotions due to injuries.
So – none of the three players Frank traded had significant hope in the Braves organization, and going to the Pirates system they will all start at the majors or begin in the “top 5” for promotion – Morton will probably get sent to Indianapolis with former Brave Tyler Yates, and Gorkys and Locke will likely be starting in Allatoona for a few weeks, then work up to Indianapolis once they learn the ropes of the Pirates system.
McLouth is a decent and serviceable CF, and the additional left bat helps protect Garrett and Chipper (Salty and Betimit were traded, eliminated the Braves other major league ready switch hitters). He can steal bases and doesn’t appear to be too much of an injury risk. The price was right – and the fact the Braves got him for 3 years (not a rental) was worthwhile.
This seems like a worthy trade for both teams. Don’t think the Pirates are going to seriously complete this year or next year, and the Pirates minor league is stacked much better after this deal and the Bay trade.
DrewFountain - June 5, 2009
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