Lose two of three to the Red Sox, Yankees, then the Red Sox again, and what do you get? A team whose fans don't have much confidence in it. This is the state of the Atlanta Braves this week. For the third straight week, the Atlanta Braves Fan Confidence rating fell, and now stands at a season-low 48% confidence. The optimism for this team that existed at the beginning of the year has definitely evaporated.
The Braves have an opportunity to turn that mark around though. Leading up to the All-Star break, the team plays a struggling Phillies team to finish out the homestand, then goes on the road to face the Nationals (worst team in baseball), the Cubs, and the Rockies -- all places our offense should be able to hit a little more. We'll see.
0 recs | 75 comments
chance to turn it around?
is this legit thinking or are we just trying to be optimistic? There are still three games on this homestand, and a LOT of people (myself included) were waiting to see the outcome of this 10-game stretch to see if we are still in it, but its not been pretty lately.
Its too early, for sure, ESPECIALLY in our division, but are we on the verge of being sellers? We are more than one move away from making a good push, but we are one BAD move away from being out of the race, imo.
traphicg - June 29, 2009
BAD move or INJURY
bwellnjonesco - June 29, 2009
I think we have a chance to turn it around...
…and I would like to think it’s legit thinking and not just wishful thinking on my part. I just feel that pitching as good as ours can carry a team if you have halfway decent hitting. Will we get halfway decent hitting? I don’t know, that’s why there’s a chance we could make a bid for the title, but it’s certainly not a great chance. Nonetheless, I like our chances better than if it was the pitching that was sucking instead of the bats. Bats can get hot; pitching is less likely to do so.
sddbaker - June 29, 2009
To add to the point re: bats
Chipper is in a 10 for 60 slump, and McCann had a terrible series vs. the BoSox. It goes without saying that if those two guys are in a concurrent slump, then our offense is going to struggle more than usual. That said, I think the likelihood of the (con)current slump persisting for too much longer is pretty remote.
Finally, although it is an admittedly poor analogy (and I’m going to make it anyway), there is another team out there with pretty good offense and pretty bad pitching (Nats), and look how they’ve fared to date.
fphjr01 - June 29, 2009
good point
i like that idea – bats can/will heat up, pitching usually “is what it is”
traphicg - June 29, 2009
I honestly think this week will prove where we belong. Specifically, this series with the Phillies. I mean, we have been playing some good ball. We just haven’t put it all together yet. It seems, we normally get good pitching, but either can’t get the big clutch hit when we need it, or we have a mental lapse on defense.
This team, and the way we are playing, kinda reminds me of some teams that eventually made it to the world series. I mean, we are obviously talented. It just seems that we are poised to go on a tear, at some point. Will KJ start getting some base hits at some point. I think we have a chance if we stand pat.
dlkinser86 - June 29, 2009
Interesting exchange on Olney's chat today:
Brent (Atlanta)
If the Braves are giving up on Escobar, are the Red Sox a good trade partner? Would they give up Bucholtz for Escobar?
Buster Olney
Brent — they’d be a great trade partner. I think that’s why the Red Sox were checking out Francoeur — as possible preparation for a larger deal that might’ve involved Escobar. That’s an educated guess on my part.
Dandrews - June 29, 2009
I don't think we'd really need the young starter unless we could offload some salary in the process...
But if they would give us a Lowrie-esque player who could at least be a legit option, this would certainly be something worth exploring.
MichaelProcton - June 29, 2009
I think an additional young arm would be great here. Someone like Buccholz/Bowden who would allow us to move Vazquez for offense, and not have to worry as much about whether or not Huddy will be back next year.
That being said, I’m pretty opposed to us selling on Escobar just because Cox doesn’t like him. He’s a good player having a solid year, and he’s cheap.
timmy3 - June 29, 2009
But the problem people have with us replacing Vasquez is that there's nobody who's not a question to do it...
And acquiring Buchholz or Bowden wouldn’t’ change that. Also, nobody’s suggesting Esco’s not playing relatively well. It’s that his mental lapses are proving more frequent and more egregious by the month. Yelling at the press box and not being ready to field your position, while you’re on defense, because you were charged with an error? That cannot happen to a 27-year-old who’s been up in the bigs for 2+ years.
MichaelProcton - June 29, 2009
I forsee much hardships for this team if we ship off Escobar this year.
soup du jour - June 29, 2009
Diory Hernandez might become the most hated person in Atlanta if Yunel is traded…
bwellnjonesco - June 29, 2009
That would imply that people in Atlanta actually give a damn. If they did, Jeff would be gone by now.
timmy3 - June 29, 2009
Until we fall 10+ games back...
We’re not trading him without somebody better to take over than Hernandez. You can write that down.
MichaelProcton - June 29, 2009
On some level I wouldn’t mind trading Escobar and Frenchy to the BoSox if it netted us a package like Buchholz/Bard/Lowrie/Green. On another lever I think we should never trade an excelent low cost young shortstop with so much offensive potential.
bbxxj - June 29, 2009
Brewers
We’ve already discussed the possibility of Corey Hart for Francouer which the Brewers would never do. However, if we package Fracouer and Escobar for Alcides Escobar and Hart, we may have something. It is certainly not a sexy trade, but it gives us better production in right field and a solid replacement for Escobar.
Judging by the constant decline in our fan confidence poll despite great pitching, most fans will not realize we traded our shortstop because they have the same last name. Obviously, if your confidence level is below 50% for a team that has a great starting rotation, you do not watch enough baseball. We have several streaky hitters on this team, so I would be a little more optimistic that a team that has pitched well throughout this season will turn it around. I know we can’t win every year despite a 14 year run, but the fairweather nature of many of the posters on here bothers me. Call me crazy or stupid for believing that this team will make a run at the division, but a fourth place team does not pitch this well.
gutisking - June 29, 2009
Don’t think they’d do that because of Hardy.
Unless they have some place to move JJ (3B?). I don’t really know the Brewers roster that much other than to say I don’t think it’ll take on the surface.
soup du jour - June 29, 2009
Escobar's been talked about as a future 3B candidate himself.
But personally, I don’t know that we’d be getting enough back in return.
MichaelProcton - June 29, 2009
The Brewers are getting tired of Hardy and the Braves are ready to throw in the towel on Escobar which is stupid but I can Imagine plenty of teams wanting Esco on their team.
That a boy - June 29, 2009
Not Sexy???
Alcides gets me hard… especially with his D.
VivaLosBravos - June 29, 2009
hahaha
bwellnjonesco - June 29, 2009
I would be more concerned
with finding a replacement for YEScobar than the likelihood of Bucholz filling JV’s shoes.
VivaLosBravos - June 29, 2009
We obviously wouldn't want to take on Lugo's salary...
But they’ve got more than one ML-capable SS.
MichaelProcton - June 29, 2009
A franchise pinning its future on Jed Lowrie is a franchise in trouble.
VivaLosBravos - June 29, 2009
+ a billion. Jed Lowrie is not a ML starter.
cbwilk - June 29, 2009
I'm not saying we "pin our future" on him..
But he’s a stopgap if we he serves as part of a package (combined with ML-ready OF help, projectable pitching that could strengthen our pen now and start down the road, and/or other MI prospects to help stock our depleted organizational depth chart there) to get comparable value for Escobar.
MichaelProcton - June 29, 2009
He's a better stopgap than anything we have internally
and that’s about it
VivaLosBravos - June 29, 2009
I don't know why you're so down on him...
He’s young, he has a good minor league track record, and he wasn’t bad last year in the bigs.
MichaelProcton - June 29, 2009
He's not that young
which is part of the problem. His age and physique indicate that his doubles will stay doubles. He’s like a lower BA version of Kotchman.
He’d be great in a utility IF role, but doesn’t look like much of an everyday player after fading quickly about a month after taking over at SS last year.
VivaLosBravos - June 30, 2009
He’s Mark Lemke in the majors.
cbwilk - June 30, 2009
Wasn't Lemke a starter for five or six years?
MichaelProcton - June 30, 2009
Yes. And he was also somebody nobody would have ever traded for.
cbwilk - June 30, 2009
I certainly wasn't suggesting Lowrie should be our only target...
Or even the centerpiece of a deal.
MichaelProcton - June 30, 2009
Just that there could be worse stopgap options to replace Yunie.
MichaelProcton - June 30, 2009
Yes, our confidence in our team has been shaken...
and I’m not sure it’s going to improve unless our offense turns things around. On the flip side, we’ve got more than enough depth in pitching to consider going out and acquiring another bat. Whether management does that or not is another matter. There’s always next year, if we don’t snap out of the funk this time around.
Doni S - June 29, 2009
This is what losing does to fans. Now when we start winning again (read: when Chipper and Heap start hitting and Yunel and Nate start playing) we should see another spike in this poll.
justincredubil02 - June 29, 2009
Yep
No need to freak out and blow everything up. While still playing mediocre we’re only five out with a bunch of divisional games coming up. KJ is too good of a hitter not to snap out of this funk, our pitching is superb but our defense has been horrific. Getting Esky and Nate will do wonders for the offense and if Wren can somehow manage to add a bat, I think we’re in pretty good shape.
blairblink - June 29, 2009
Just read this fan comment on AJC site:
Should we have tried to get him?
Could he play outfield?
NCChopper - June 29, 2009
actually he played left last night for the Cardinals. He is pretty versatile and has been hitting pretty damn well this season. That said I don’t know what we should have given up to get him.
yondaime4 - June 29, 2009
While its hard to determie who the winner is in the Mark Derosa trade, because we dont know who the player to be named is just yet but you have to consider it a steal for St. Louis because they only gave up a AAA bull pen arm for a player who can play every postion but pitch, and catch. To bad the bRAVES DIdnt want him.
That a boy - June 29, 2009
I mean, Perez isn't some scrub.
He’s been in their organizational top 3 for the last three years, and he cracked the MLB top 100 once. I know it’s not fair to compare across organizations, but would you want to give up Kimbrel (our top RP prospect) for half a season of DeRosa?
MichaelProcton - June 29, 2009
Considering how he’s pitched this year, yes.
cbwilk - June 29, 2009
Wow...
I’d hope we could get more than a player who will be a marginal improvement for our club for him.
MichaelProcton - June 29, 2009
If he can’t stop giving up a ton of runs in A ball, we won’t ever get anything for him. I think he’s just got some kind of fixable problem, and in the long run he’ll be fine, but right now, he’s not our top RP prospect and expecting to get much for him would be silly.
cbwilk - June 30, 2009
Just out of curiosity...
Who would you put at the top of our RPs?
MichaelProcton - June 30, 2009
Since Medlen is a major leaguer and out of the running, I’d have to go with somebody like Gearrin or Pruneda. They’ve both pitched well this year and were pretty highly thought of before. For me, Gearrin gets the nod, being older and having proven himself at higher levels.
All that being said, our top relief prospect is really probably somebody who’s a starter right now, since there really aren’t that many guys who are pure relievers from A ball to the bigs.
cbwilk - June 30, 2009
How does Spruill rate in the MLB – a SP or RP? IF he projects as a RP, where does he rate in your opinion?
justincredubil02 - June 30, 2009
If he were a RP he’d easily be at the top. I’ve been thinking about my mid season top 25, and, for me, Spruill might be our top pitching prospect. Hanson graduated, Locke was traded, Rohrbough might never stop being hurt, he’s better than Scott Diamond, and he’s out-performed DeVall at the same level. The only other guys who could give him a run are Edgar Osuna, who I really need to sit and think about for a while, and Julio Teheran, but he’s probably fallen a tick behind, if only for a little while, by not being ready to pitch at Low A.
With his big, projectable body, Spruill is definitely a starting pitching prospect. The guy is a hoss and you can easily see him throwing 200 innings every year.
cbwilk - June 30, 2009
awesome
once again, you deliver. You should do a weekly prospect rundown similar to the minor league recaps, but dealing specifically with our top 5-10 prospects (based on our midseason votes).
Thanks again!
justincredubil02 - June 30, 2009
I appreciate it man. But, that’s really more yodaime4’s area. I do need to get back to making a few prospect reports on some of the lesser known guys though…
cbwilk - June 30, 2009
OK.
I’m probably on board with all of that.
MichaelProcton - June 30, 2009
The Indians needed relief help, so start with Medlen, and then add the PTBNL, who it has been said to be a key component of the deal. So I would say one of our high potential low pitchers (the Delgados, DeVall, Spruill, etc).
soup du jour - June 29, 2009
Well I got a player for ya. Alex Rios. Toronto is willing to unload him for anything to be able to retain the brilliant Holladay. Via mlb trade rumors. I have always liked Rios and he has got some pop.
That a boy - June 29, 2009
Pop, sure...
but that sure is a bulky contract for what he provides.
MichaelProcton - June 29, 2009
You disagree with everything but you never have any ideas yourself. I would like to see what you have to say since you are just that smart about baseball.
That a boy - June 29, 2009
I disagree with everything?
Hardly. However, I wonder whether you’re willing to put up the money yourself to make an acquisition like Rios. Realistic fans realize their teams operate within a budget, particularly when they’re owned by a corporation rather than an individual.
MichaelProcton - June 29, 2009
Rios
His contract is not horrible and he solidifies the outfield for 2010 and beyond. His contract is back heavy but really doesn’t pinch the pocket until 2012. You also have an outfield of Rios, McClouth, and Schafer in 2010. Not to bad at all my friend. It also wouldn’t cost that much to get him because the Jays need to free up money for Halladay. Vernon Wells is about to get paid and Rios will follow so someone has to go. Braves also can easily free up the money with getting rid of Vazquez or not resigning Hudson.
Frenchy and a decent minor league arm would be a fair market value based on Derosa deal.
Charmin519 - June 29, 2009
The problem with this is that it leaves our bullpen in shambles. We’re losing Gonzo and Soriano next year…we’re not going to have any semblance of a relief corps if we blow all of our remaining budget on an outfielder who has thus far in his career played below expectations. I realize that he’s a nice upgrade over what we have now, but his cost:performance ratio just doesn’t add up for him to be targeted by the Braves.
soup du jour - June 29, 2009
+10 million for the next seven years
MichaelProcton - June 29, 2009
This brings up an interesting question...
What is easier for a GM to assemble in the offseason: A completely gutted bullpen, or an almost complete lineup?
We have the foundations for a really good lineup next year: Chipper, McCann, McLouth, Yunel, Kotch. Assuming that KJ gets his head out of his ass and starts at least producing on his career average, we can throw him into the mix. That leaves us with LF and RF to fill and maybe a bench player or two. We are looking at quite a price tag for LF and RF, and with the free agents set to hit the market, I am not excited about any of them.
I am inclined to think that a BP would be easier to fill out, as we have seemingly produced one of the top relievers every year out of no-names. Not to mention that we have some fire-ballers coming up in the system that could start making appearances later this year.
So, again I ask, what is easier/cheaper to acquire in an offseason?
justincredubil02 - June 30, 2009
The problem is that we’re going to have to acquire at least one reliable reliever (call him a closer if you wish). Because as it stands right now, we have no reliable option for next year in the pen (I’m not buying what Moylan has to sell). We might have some talent, but we’ll highly regret not trading for or re/signing a closer option. This will cost us a nice chunk of change, as I’m also not a fan of cobbled together bullpens. We don’t need to go out and do what the Mutts did this past offseason, but we’re definitely going to have to spend a nice size of our money coming off the books.
That being said, I think you’re right, that in general it is easier to get a bullpen together than getting an impact bat. I’m just not seeing Rios as the answer, unless there’s something that coming to Atlanta will fix in him. Whether that means he needs a change of scenery, or he needs to get out of the Rogers Center, or something else I don’t know. I don’t know enough about Rios the player to answer that. But on the surface, his contract is just too overbearing.
soup du jour - July 1, 2009
+1
Closer is not a position to break somebody in at if we’re contending for the playoffs.
MichaelProcton - July 1, 2009
I doubt we would take on his salary
Heyward is the next crime dog - June 29, 2009
His salary really isnt that bad if you compare a 20/20 guy who will get you 100 rbi solid D. Rios will bring some fans in. The truth is we do not need any more pitching. The better Hanson pitches the less likely it is that we will get Hudson back. This team needs balance and our pitching is stacked but the defense and Offense needs an upgrade or we will just be disapointed.
That a boy - June 29, 2009
Im totally wrong about Rios you guys are right.
That a boy - June 29, 2009
I think Rios is a great idea too
But we just dont have the money.
McLouth
Escobar (If Bobby and Chino dont shoot him in the face within the next week)
Chipper
McCann
Rios
FUGA
Kotchman
Prado
Now thats a nice lineup! Too bad we have like $500,000 to work with and hardly any prospects to trade that arent “untouchable” that the Jays would want.
Scott Coleman - June 29, 2009
Yep, that .321 OBP Rios is putting up this year would be a nice fit in our lineup …
Lennox - June 30, 2009
DUDE!
The Jays are trying to dump him! That means he must be a great pickup.
MichaelProcton - June 30, 2009
Dude!!! The Jays are at 4 games over .500 with a banaged together starting rotation playing in the AL east. So what are you implying that they suck. Because they are actually a very good team. They want to dump Rios because they have Young outfielder coming up and the want to keep Holladay. And Rios would be a good pick up.
That a boy - June 30, 2009
So they think he's not worth his deal...
which they JUST gave him. I don’t kon if those are the kinds of guys you should jump at the chance to acquire.
MichaelProcton - June 30, 2009
If we sweep the Phillies
we’re 2 games out with a 3 game series against the Nationals this weekend.
I know we sucked against 2 teams with a combined payroll of nearly $500 million, but we gotta expect to lose some of the games.
We’re 4-6 on our 13 game game stretch of hell. If we can just win 2/3 from the Thillies all won’t be lost. The Phills, Muts and Marlins either have half their team on the DL or their pitching looks similar to the 2008 Braves.
People wonder why we cant catch up on the Phillies and make a move for first; We are playing the Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees after all.
Lets get 2/3 from the Phillies and then sweep the pathetic Nats (Oh god, time for some more color commentary from Rob Dibble. Fuck). The Phills and Muts play next weekend so one of them is guaranteed to lose.
All hope isn’t lost.
Not to mention we’ve found our ace. God i love watching that kid pitch.
GO BRAVES
Scott Coleman - June 29, 2009
+1
cirela20 - June 29, 2009
....not to sure.
About the whole sweeping the Phillies thing. They are by far and a way a better road team than a home team this season – they like playing on the road a lot and this is not a good time to catch them in ATL
RainDelay - June 30, 2009
In order to sweep the Phillies
the bats have to complement the superb pitching, otherwise our pitching staff’s W-L record will mimic that of the 1987 Houston Astros.
1987 Houston Astros SP
Mike Scott 16-13 3.23 ERA
Nolan Ryan 8-16 2.76 ERA
Danny Darwin 9-10 3.59 ERA
Bob Knepper 8-17 5.27 ERA
Jim Deshaies 11-6 4.62 ERA
Jurrjens is looking like Nolan Ryan right now with the lack of run support.
Walker Wallace - June 30, 2009
Holy Balls, Batman!
That just straight up blows…It makes me wonder why people still put a lot of weight into wins and losses.
justincredubil02 - June 30, 2009
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