When I left work the score was Braves 10, Phillies 3, an hour later when I checked in, the score was Braves 11, Phillies 12 -- wha' happened? Recapping the recaps:
From the AJC:
Braves manager Bobby Cox has seen plenty in nearly five decades of professional baseball, but he never saw anything quite like his team's seventh-inning bullpen meltdown Wednesday against the Phillies.
Four relievers squandered a 10-3 lead in the span of three outs, allowing eight runs on three hits, five walks and a hit batter in the seventh inning of a wretched 12-11 loss against Philadelphia at Citizens Bank Park.
“All hell broke loose,” said Cox, after eight consecutive Phillies recorded an RBI, including three straight bases-loaded walks by Peter Moylan and Blaine Boyer. “I’ve seen a couple of walk-ins, but nothing like that in one inning.”
From MLB:
"That's the worst inning I've seen," said Blaine Boyer, who found the strike zone with only one of his nine pitches and exited after issuing two bases-loaded walks. "You talk about your ultimate. We were walking there for a while, 10-3, and it just blows up like that. That's baseball, and I take the brunt of the blame for that one."
Yes, that was the ultimate (what?). I guess he, like most of us, were pretty much speechless after that collapse. I, personally, was so upset that I wanted to punch a small child.
Surely this is not a sign of things to come. Surely this is a complete aberration of how our bullpen will ultimately perform. Or maybe that was the ultimate.
0 recs | 79 comments
Aberration.
That’s the word that keeps going through my mind. We are not going to walk four runs in every game. Or even one. The pitching was so bad, I feel better about it than if it were just normal bad. An aberration. Exactly.
sddbaker - April 9, 2009
Classic.
Smoltz's Beard - April 9, 2009
circa dane cook
Cammando2317 - April 9, 2009
u dont want to punch a small child their skulls are fully formed… punch a baby u wont hurt ur hand
/awkward
Swo12bv - April 9, 2009
Ohman
should’ve signed Ohman. Should’ve signed Ohman. Should’ve signed Ohman.
QUYET - April 9, 2009
Get ready for your 2009 Braves Bullpen...
sdp - April 9, 2009
Love it!
musicman - April 9, 2009
what hurts the most..
is the impression that Lowe, Vasquez and Kawakami must have. They’re probably thinking “Wow! I have to pitch 8 innings if I want the ‘W’” ….and they’ll end up stressing and pressing
also, Smoltz must be laughing it up over in Boston. Ohman probably is chuckling.
RehabReject - April 9, 2009
sdp - April 9, 2009
LOL
wtf?! can we have a ban on gays glaring at me with squinty sexy eyes??
RehabReject - April 9, 2009
Blaine is usually better then this
But wow he didnt even take anything off of the pitches. Slow it down and aim more
auskip07 - April 9, 2009
Bright note
Blaine is a man and shouldered the blame. With that kind of performance it’s even hard to say that things can’t get any worse, believe it or not.
royhobbs - April 9, 2009
Who Cares?
Boyer will be a problem for the Braves this year, regardless of his acceptance of blame.
El Bravos - April 9, 2009
SEND HIM TO MYRTLE BEACH
sdp - April 9, 2009
I like to think
That it shows a sign of maturity on his part. Last year was full of excuses, blaming fatigue, weather conditions, injury to teammates; he wasn’t being a man about his own shortcomings.
It’s only one game. Let’s not pass judgment just yet. Now if he fails to do his job with fresh start innings all through April, I’ll be more inclined to agree with you, but not after just one game.
royhobbs - April 9, 2009
as usual...
…you speak the truth..
sddbaker - April 9, 2009
hahaha!
is anybody keeping count??…
ONE ……….. ONE 1-run loss …… ah ah ah!
do I hear TWO? …… TWO 1-run losses …. ah ah ah!
RehabReject - April 9, 2009
“Bitch, where is my money…”
Smoltz's Beard - April 9, 2009
yeah....
I thought about that.
sddbaker - April 9, 2009
I hate this team
I could pitch an inning and not give up nine runs. You can’t walk people when you have that kind of lead, just throw it down the middle and someone will make an out. No excuse, absolutely none. Also, Cox should’ve brought in Gonzalez or Soriano once the Phillies got within four runs. I still hate the way he uses the bullpen.
TradeAndruw - April 9, 2009
It makes his decision to use Gonzo the game before pretty damn stupid in my eyes. I’m assuming he was saving Soriano for the 9th, if we had gotten the lead back…but yes, you’re right Soriano should have been used THAT INNING.
Smoltz's Beard - April 9, 2009
I've been thinking about the Soriano deal
I think, as far as bringing him in in the 7th goes, by the time it might have crossed Bobby’s mind that he needed to be in there, it was too late. I’m sure after Bobby brought in Boyer, he thought “well, sure he can throw strikes.” And then, “well, surely Campillo can throw strikes”, and then, “maybe i should have brought in Soriano.”
I said in the Series Win thread that i would wake up positive today, and i did. We shouldn’t worry about the bullpen yet, because its a near certainty that 5 ptichers haven’t forgotten how to throw strikes. They wouldn’t be pitching in the major leagues if they couldn’t throw strikes on a regular basis. I think i would be more concerned if they just got shelled one after the other.
10-4 - April 9, 2009
Yeah, I agree with you but the point I’m trying to make is that it should have crossed his mind sooner. The fact that after Moylan and Boyer imploded he went to Campillo AND Bennett before Soriano shows me that he’s still of the mindset that closers (and de facto closers in this case) should be saved for the 9th inning. Chances are high that that line of thinking will bite us in the ass again this season.
As far as walking up positive, I did the same. I think VictorW said it best, that if in March you had told me we would have won the series, in Philly, I would have not believed you. I’m looking forward to Lowe putting on a clinic and shutting down the Nats tomorrow (aside from Dunn, who everyone knows will produce).
Smoltz's Beard - April 9, 2009
I'm a freak of nature
I like airports.
Seeing people running around like chickens with their heads cut off in a frustrated panicked frenzy calms me down, always.
That being said, this year’s crop of rookie members with their woe-is-us attitudes and pessimistic outlooks tend to make even the worst of losses like yesterday afternoon, seem like nothing at all to me. It’ll all be good.
royhobbs - April 9, 2009
The aberration game from last year against Philly, I had this same kind of discussion with 17843 about bullpen use, and I stuck with the old-thinking mentality, and siding with Bobby. My thinking has changed somewhat since then, and I dreaded knowing that Bobby wasn’t going to go with a closer sooner than later, and stats be damned, that 7th inning is where the real save was going to be recorded. Ironically, Soriano was the ideal guy then, as he was yesterday, and was passed over for “later innings.”
royhobbs - April 9, 2009
I figure
Bobby was probably thinking what every one of here was also thinking. Something along the lines of “we can’t possibly lose this one”. I can’t stand a loss like that…just hate it, especially on the road when you have to listen to the fans. Thank God for the mute button!
WienerDog - April 9, 2009
every one of us
I wish we had an edit button…
WienerDog - April 9, 2009
I would really enjoy...
…seeing you pitch an inning against the Phillies lineup.
Also, I wonder…does anyone really think they weren’t trying to throw strikes? Because I’m pretty sure that they were. Sometimes you have a day like that. There’s only no excuse if they happen consistently.
Also, the team would probably hate you too. Hater.
sddbaker - April 9, 2009
I’m completely serious. I’m sure I’d get lit up, but I wouldn’t give up nine runs. People would crush line drives right at people, or get under the ball and fly out.
TradeAndruw - April 9, 2009
unless u have some offspeed stuff thats not true… these guys are ML hitters and are one of ht ebest lineups in baseball no less than 6 guys can hit it out at any time… ud be throwing batting practice and instead of 5 walks it woul dhave been a grand slam and then a couple HR
Swo12bv - April 9, 2009
I
mvandonsel - April 9, 2009
I call BS
mvandonsel - April 9, 2009
I really think it’s Bigjoe’s fault for bring up our 99% chance of winning according to Fangraphs (I posted a fanshot of the graph if you want to look at it…it’s really quite extraordinary).
Smoltz's Beard - April 9, 2009
I’ll go with that!
WienerDog - April 9, 2009
YES! It is all bigjoe’s fault!
mvandonsel - April 9, 2009
Well the off day should serve us well. Bobby needs to do some serious thinking and Roger obviously needs to work harder with these guys and get them back into the swing of things. We know we have a potential issue, but we have plenty of time to access it, right? Gonzo looked better second time out, we know Soriano and Moylan have the skills and are all but guaranteed to improve, so unless you really think Boyer or Bennett don’t belong on this team we have no choice but to wait and see what develops.
Bravely going forward - April 9, 2009
We did the almost the same thing last september blowing a 10-3 lead to the Marlins on the road.
Except we won that one 16-14.
GwinnettBraves - April 9, 2009
I’d be starting the seventh with Bennett at this point. His stuff isn’t all that great, but he’d get the ball over the plate with a 7-run lead.
Tokyokie - April 9, 2009
Wow
Wow… That was emberassing as hell. Good thing we signed Garrett Anderson instead of Will Ohman… Good move. And about Boyer – 5.88 ERA last year. Straight fastball and a broke ass curve. What soes Bill Parcells say? At some point you are what you are.
IDChop - April 9, 2009
sddbaker - April 9, 2009
What the heck is that?
mvandonsel - April 9, 2009
a crying baby
sddbaker - April 9, 2009
It looks like a dog. A very small dog.
mvandonsel - April 9, 2009
it is...
a very small crying baby dog… cute, huh?
sddbaker - April 10, 2009
It is, I just wonder why it is so small! I have never seen a dog that small before.
mvandonsel - April 10, 2009
because it’s a newborn…
sddbaker - April 10, 2009
“You are what your record says you are.”
misguidedkid - April 10, 2009
I was angry yesterday, but that had to be an aberration
Every pitcher is going to have a few bad outings each year. It just so happened that the entire bullpen had one yesterday. I highly doubt there will be another game where four straight relievers completely lose the strike zone entirely. Granted, it didn’t help that Braves pitching was getting squeezed all day yesterday.
AuditDawg - April 9, 2009
I think thats the other thing everyone forgets
That strike zone was squeezed for Braves Pitchers yesterday. I saw a couple that probably should have been strikes that were balls. Or how about strike one to MattyD then the bat chuck after roping the dong to be F-you man for that BS strike call.
cmdpsu15 - April 9, 2009
Dont say I didnt warn you guys...
bravesguy311 - April 9, 2009
Read the comments here
royhobbs - April 9, 2009
yea thats why i said it. ignorance is bliss, but in this case it leads to threads like that
bravesguy311 - April 9, 2009
the problem
as I saw it wasn’t really a “bullpen” problem. it was the guys trying to be too cute and too perfect instead of realizing the situation. once the bases were loaded, everyone was trying to not give up a big hit despite the fact they had 7 runs to play with. so even had they given up a grand slam, they’d still have a lead and there would be no one on base. then they could actually pitch to these guys and not over-think it and over-throw the ball like they were.
someone should have made them realize it if they weren’t realizing it themselves. it would have looked ugly, but a 10-7 game with the bases empty would have been a lot better than what happened and kept happening.
nuftjedi - April 9, 2009
to clarify what I mean by “bullpen” problem. I think the guys are ok, they just didn’t think the situation out clearly and approached it all wrong.
nuftjedi - April 9, 2009
word
Mighty Healthy - April 9, 2009
I think Moylan knew the plan, and he was brought in for a reason, to throw strikes and induce a ground ball, and a potential GIDP, but for some reason, he just couldn’t find the strike zone. He was the right choice, because he would either induce the ground ball, or fool someone with his breaking stuff, but the biggest part of the plan didn’t pan out, with him being capable of finding the plate.
royhobbs - April 9, 2009
I agree, but he seemed to be over-throwing and being too perfect. the only thought should have been to get an out. trade an out for a run, do anything, but get guys off those bases. again like I said even if they gave up 3 or 4 runs with one swing, at least then the bases would be clear.
nuftjedi - April 9, 2009
Well said.
Smoltz's Beard - April 9, 2009
Disgusted
I was at work following the gamecast and i almost threw my monitor across the office. seriously, that was just ridiculous. and i got even more pissed later, but i have too much to say about it so im going to write a post about it.
tdoublem23 - April 9, 2009
Just FYI
Stop and think twice before you hit the post button after you write what you plan on writing. I’m not going to discourage you from writing, but please, think before you post. Irrational frustration posts after one game in April don’t tend to go over very well.
royhobbs - April 9, 2009
+1
cmdpsu15 - April 9, 2009
Wow
I was watching this game and couldn’t stop thinking how similar it was to the 2008 mets. Good first six innings from the offense, decent start, bullpen that cant throw strikes and an offense that can’t get people on base late in the game.
DonutVT - April 9, 2009
Disappointed
Long time lurker, first time poster.
I was under the impression we got DLowe and Javy to be “innings eaters”. Derek goes eight innings opening day-check. Vazquez gets pulled after six?! WTF?! I’d be happy if we get six out of Glav, but that’s NOT why we traded for Javier, not after the ’pen put in almost four innings the night before in relief of JJ. Extremely disappointed to see him come out after he had been cruising along once getting past a little roughness at the start.
Yeah, I realize there’s no way Bobby could have foreseen the collapse but I’m strictly talking about turning it over to the bullpen an inning, maybe two, too early. Am I off here?
blairblink - April 9, 2009
I see what you’re saying, but in his first apperance of the year JV put up a quality start. His pitch count was more of an issue than anything, and because ofthe fact that the lead was so big at the time, why push it?
Your comment that there’s no way Bobby could have forseen the collapse was right on. Any bullpen in baseball should be able to get nine outs protecting a 7 run lead.
VegasAces - April 9, 2009
This.
We can hardly blame Vazquez, he gutted out a quality start when it was obvious he didn’t have his best stuff. Sounded like he was missing his pitches early and maybe getting squeezed a little bit later on in the game after he settled down, and because of that his pitch count was high. Just because the guy’s labeled a workhorse doesn’t mean he’s going to throw 120 pitches each night.
I’m supremely confident in Vazquez this season, just you watch.
Smoltz's Beard - April 9, 2009
Put one down in the game we should have won category ...
This one was a tough one to swallow and it shows that our bullpen is not ready for prime time. I keep track of all the loses that should have been wins and that one takes the cake. So 1 game in the should of category, let’s just hope that there are less than last year.
Fortune favors the brave(s) - April 9, 2009
Yeah, we handed that game to them. Someone will hand us a win eventually.
TradeAndruw - April 9, 2009
I had an awful nightmare last night
Went to sleep after the 6th inning but woke up this morning and had a nightmare that we actually lost that game without making them earn it.
LOL it was something like 4 runs scored on bases loaded walks. Our pitchers couldn’t even throw a strike. Thank god it was just a nightmare.
Wish it was Friday!
UgaBulldog14 - April 9, 2009
As much as I love to jump on to the negativity bandwagon normally.
It’s highly unlikely this is indicative of the bullpen’s future performance. Granted if the next three games see huge leads destroyed thanks to tons of walks, then I’ll kill all of them myself. But for now, it’s a bad game, it was one of those snowball things. Barring everyone in our pen turning into Rick Ankiel, I’d say it sucks that it happened against the Phillies, but it’ll be okay in the long run.
Perrinbar - April 9, 2009
Why...
You don’t use your LOOGY up 7 runs to face righties after he pitched over an inning the previous night. I can’t imagine what Cox was thinking by putting EOF in in that situation. Up 7 runs with 3 innings to kill is when you call on Carlyle/Campillo/Bennett, and let them finish it.
Bobby befuddles me sometimes.
timmy3 - April 9, 2009
Yup.
Smoltz's Beard - April 9, 2009
I typically give Cox the benefit of the doubt, as he obviously knows more than I do. But this one confused me, too, even before the crap hit the fan.
VegasAces - April 9, 2009
He simply doesn't know how to manage a bullpen.
And when he doesn’t have the best rotation in the game, it shows.
timmy3 - April 9, 2009
Bobby is great at managing players
When it comes to managing a game, he’s always been a bit weak, IMO.
Lennox - April 9, 2009
Another point...
I don’t think it really matters, but what was Bobby’s logic in starting Anderson in game 2 vs the LH Moyer and Diaz vs the RH Blanton?
MatM - April 9, 2009
Anderson has over 100 PAs vs Moyer, and has raked against him.
Diaz was a late addition to the lineup yesterday because Anderson got scratched for tweaking his calf in BP.
timmy3 - April 9, 2009
I have to agree, to a point, with Lennox. Cox is always a little TOO loyal to his guys, and it gets in the way of the business side of managing the game. One wonders how many more wins Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz may have had if Bobby would have yanked them when everybody watching the game knew they were tossing grapefruits…..
Bobby is the eternal optimist and loyalist when it comes to the pitching game. Is that such a bad thing? Well, when you cough up 9 runs in an inning because your guys can’t find the pentagon, yes it is. But the greatest championship run since UCLA basketball HAS to count for something.
misguidedkid - April 10, 2009
wow what a dismal inning.
I had to get out of my lounge chair and turn off the tv set in the 7th inning I could not take the fact that the bullpen performed so poorly. I hope this is not going to be a case in point all year,if so whoa be the braves.
bobbywarren95 - April 10, 2009
Bullpen issue
Is this not the achilles that we have been living with since , oh, 1996? At this point I think we have to ask what is it in how Bobby uses the bullpen that causes these all to often meltdowns? Yes this is a pressure filled role on the team and you have to be able to stand up to the pressure—shouldn’t Bobby be doing something to alleviate some of the pressure for these guys?
trevbal6 - April 11, 2009
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