Talking Chop

Chief Noc-A-Homa - December 8, 2009 reply

It’s more of a goatee, really.

If I was Wren I would ask for 1 top 10 prospect and another guy in the teams top 20.

I know it’s cutting off your nose to spite your face, but why not keep Soriano and pitch him in the 7th? Better yet, make him a starter and watch his arm fall off in May. That’ll teach him.

Why not?...

because you’d be paying him $8m to do it maybe.

Mr. Sanchez - December 8, 2009 reply

I know. Totally self-destructive, but it would certainly send a message. Better yet, send Soriano to Rome and make his ass ride the bus.

Well, you can't send him to Rome...

…long since out of options. I am not sure what lesson we are trying to teach him, either. The, we offered you arbitration that screwed your value on the market and we are mad when you accept lesson?

Actually, I like to call it the you-blindsided-us-by-accepting-arb-thinking-we’d-trade-you-but-here’s-your-own-blindside-we-own-your-ass lesson, but why split hairs? ;-)

Or more commonly referred to as...

“cutting off your nose to spite your face”

That’s a good way to put it, wish I’d thought of that.

I know it’s cutting off your nose to spite your face, but why not keep Soriano and pitch him in the 7th? Better yet, make him a starter and watch his arm fall off in May. That’ll teach him.

If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.

by Yakker on Dec 8, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yakker - December 9, 2009 reply

I guess we could do that (except for the Rome part), but I think he would go for the laugh-all-way-to-the-bank response combined with the free-agents-will-never-want-to-sign-with-Atlanta-again backlash.

MLBTR is reporting that the Red Sox, Orioles and a couple other teams are interested and that the Yankees are not interested.

Soriano for Bard?

bwellnjonesco - December 8, 2009 reply

you’re dreaming. Bard’s too young/cheap/really effin good.

You do know that Soriano named his kids Rafeal, Rafeal, and Rafeala don’t you? Who wouldn’t want a player with that type of self respect…

bwellnjonesco - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

You do know that Soriano named his kids Rafeal, Rafeal, and Rafeala don’t you? Who wouldn’t want a player with that type of self respect…

bwellnjonesco - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

Someone just told me that, but I forget where…

sorry for the double post…my mobile paying skills aren’t up to speed yet…

bwellnjonesco - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

Ha ha, no worries. Just messing with ya.

Yakker - December 9, 2009 reply

The other team listed as interested is the ’Stros.

Hunter Pence
Hunter Pence
Hunter Pence

/fills quota for daily stupid comment

I recently had a new freckle appear on my leg. I decided to name it Kelly Johnson. I hope he doesn’t leave us. I don’t want an opponent forever living on the outskirts of my knee cap.

awesome.

heap16 - December 8, 2009 reply

It could represent

Kelly Johnson, the actor in the production Goodbye Pork Pie

Problem solved.

Rec'd

In all honesty

it was a pretty good move by his agent.

Scott Coleman - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

It was really smart, IMO.

After 2008

You’d think he’d realize that having a healthy year isn’t a guaranteed thing.

It will be common practice next offseason…

bwellnjonesco - December 8, 2009 reply

Agreed. Took me by surprise, to be honest.

Smoltz's Beard - December 8, 2009 reply

I’m guessing you’re not the only one, Frankie.

It’s bullshit when you think about it. There’s all this stuff about protecting the player (can’t be traded without consent if he accepts arb, HAS to be offered a contract, can’t be cut without some excruciatingly obvious reason why, etc.), but nothing in place to protect the team’s interests (i.e. if you don’t want to play for that team, don’t accept arb, cuz you’ll be stuck there, although in this instance that wouldn’t help us out anyway), so we get screwed out of draft picks. I’m not sure how you’d go about fixing it, but this cat-and-mouse game is stacked against the club, and something should be done so a club losing a top-shelf free agent gets some manner of compensation without the player being able to screw them out of it like this. Maybe next time the CBA is renewed this issue will get some face time.

In fairness

The club does have all the cards during the players first 6 years of service time and you better believe they take advantage of it.

scstrato - December 8, 2009 reply

Compensation picks...

…will be eliminated in the next CBA, almost certainly. Maybe they’ll keep the sandwich picks. The team can protect itself easily, don’t offer arbitration. The player can’t—-if they are Class A and get an offer, their value is diminished. In some cases, seriously diminished—-look at Juan Cruz last year. This year, the screwed guy was Rafael Betancourt—-he basically had no choice but to accept, because no team will give up market value money and a top draft pick for a middle reliever.

This is why the picks will be eliminated, at least the Class A picks. The players hate it and the teams don’t like it either. Given the modern game, a team gets a player it develops for six years, that’s it—-then they have to pay market price. Compensation beyond a sandwich pick is pretty pointless and screws up the market for both players and teams.

On David O’Brien’s twitter page he said that Wren said that there was a team interested in both Lowe and Soriano.

Who could afford that? The Angels, Mets, Yankees, possibly the Cubs?

Of course, it would depend on what kind of salaries the other teams dump in the process….I really hope we aren’t the team that is close to getting Milton Bradley…

The Cubs are close on trade with a “surprise AL team” for Milton Bradley

Doesn’t look like it’ll be us…

thank god

The surprise is that anyone would want that sack of crap.

This of course too

would put the Cubs in the bidding for Mike C, driving up his price.

Yup…

…which was my thought, too.

Not necessarily...

depending on what they get for Bradley, that might free up salary. And they could use both another starter and some closer insurance for Marmol. Lowe and Soriano for Lee?

Mr. Sanchez - December 8, 2009 reply

uhh maybe

The quote says Surprise “AL” team….was it a typo and they meant to type “ATL”…scary……
bad joke…yes?

bravestatoo - December 8, 2009 reply

well at least

they would have gotten the “surprised” part right!

It could be a lot of teams but they may want us to take a bad contract back.

or even eat some salary.

MLBTR suggests that the Yankees are not interested in Soriano in any case.

right…i was just thinking of teams that could possibly afford that kind of salary bump.

My guess for both Lowe and Soriano: The Orioles.
1. They do have money. Angelos doesn’t throw it around, but he has it.
2. Young/good pitching staff in need of a mentor.
3. Need a closer.
Might make them a little interesting this year. Not “Rays from 2008” interesting, but competitive.

Who would they give up?

acie4mvp - December 8, 2009 reply

I’ve been considering that… ready for this? Brian Roberts. He’s better than defensively any of our 2nd base guys, is a leadoff guy, will steal up to 30 bases. Of course, he’s also the same price as Soriano was in 2009. I’d ask the O’s for Adam Jones, but I also know they’d laugh in Wren’s face.

They reportedly are interested in Dan Uggla, so inquiring on Roberts shouldn’t be too far off-base. Not necessarily saying they’d do it, but it would certainly make sense to give them a call.

I think they are looking at Uggla solely for 1B. They have holes at 1B and 3B. The last thing they want to do is trade Roberts for another bullpen arm and create a hole at 2B as well.

I don’t undertand why they’d do that. Acquiring Soriano is a one-year win-now move for them, and their best (only) chance to beat the Yanks and Red Sox iswith Roberts at 2B.

…unless they also took KJ for 2nd and Uggla for 1st. That’s starting to get a bit far-fetched, though — that’s a lot of moves.

Cavebird and I started this discussion on another thread. The O’s have Johnson, Ray, and Cla Meredith. Granted none are as good as Soriano, but do they really need an $8M closer?

I still think its the Orioles...

…and I pay the price below for posting a response before reading responses to a post. I think it is the Orioles. Meredith isn’t a closer. Johnson isn’t really a closer, and Ray hasn’t shown he can pitch since his injury—-repeatedly. They have the money to spend this year, want to show potential free agent signees that they are committed to winning, and wouldn’t have a commitment beyond next year on Soriano. The more I think about it, the more sure I am that it is the Orioles who have interest in both.

We’ll just have to wait and see. Seems foolish to me to add Soriano to a team that has so many bigger issues, but the Orioles aren’t exactly known for great decision-making.

Nationals have the money and the need for both positions?

Charmin519 - December 8, 2009 reply

I say.........

We offer both of Lowe and Soriano for that guy who went #1 last year in the draft? lol

Charmin519 - December 8, 2009 reply

As I posted elsewhere, I think it is the Orioles...

…they have a ton of money to spend and could use both a started and a closer. The commitment is minimal to Soriano as well. Given their problems getting big free agents to come there due to their crapiness (Teix turned down a huge offer from them last year), it could make sense to them. We won’t get anything of value in return unless we eat some money, but I’ll take a B prospect if they’ll take both contracts in full. Hell, I’ll take a bag of balls if they took both contracts in full.

Gotta be the Yanks.

apoxonbothyourhouses - December 9, 2009 reply

Angels

Douche move. But a smart one.

acie4mvp - December 8, 2009 reply

So now that he’s requested a trade, he can’t veto a destination right? If I were Wren, I’d send him to the worst team that wants him as thanks for screwing the Braves out of draft picks.

redwards95 - December 8, 2009 reply

He couldn’t really veto a destination to begin with – just the idea of being traded, IIRC.

Actually he could, I think

He has to give written permission to be traded. Doesn’t say anything about whether or not he can specify teams in that written notice but he could use this by withholding the notice (if he and has agent really wanted to be dicks about it) unless he went to the team of his choosing. This is all theory mind you, the rumors are he and his agent are cordially working with Wren.

scstrato - December 8, 2009 reply

So they’re approaching it as if he hadn’t accepted arb, then. He gets to choose where to go, but he’s making Wren do the leg work and not his agent. Dick move.

No. I’m saying I think he could do that. From what DOB is saying, his agent gave Wren a list of the teams that were most interested in Sori before he accepted. There has been no mention of Sori or his agent saying he has to go to such and such team.

scstrato - December 8, 2009 reply

Why?

I’d take the prospects over the draft picks for two reasons.
1. The prospects are farther along, and might even be major leaguers, depending on who we get in return.
2. The signing bonuses for the prospects are already paid

Interesting point about the signing bonuses.

Smoltz's Beard - December 8, 2009 reply

It often gets overlooked. Two first round picks are at least worth 2 million if not more. That’s not chump change.

Right. So while a few are cursing Soriano, he may have actually done the club a favor and saved them some money.

Chief Noc-A-Homa - December 8, 2009 reply

mmhmmmmm.

Soriano. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on your prospects.

-C

cthabeerman - December 9, 2009 reply

McCann and McWill - December 8, 2009 reply

The trick is finding a team that’s willing to take his salary while actually giving us a prospect is worth something. If we end up with organizational filler, how much nicer do those draft picks look? They at least represent the possibility of a legit major leaguer, and that chance is better than a guaranteed lifetime minor leaguer.

It’s not like Soriano is garbage with a 7 million dollar salary. He has a dynamite arm, albeit with an injury risk. He isn’t ridiculously overpaid. We will definitely get something

I never said he was garbage, but think about this- apparently no one was willing to meet his price, cuz he took arb, so who NOW is going to both pay his arb-inflated salary AND ship out a prospect? I mean, sloughing him off for filler shouldn’t be too difficult, but getting back a useful piece will take some finagling.

McCann's the Man - December 8, 2009 reply

no one was willing to meet his price, but his asking price was not one year 7-8M. I’d guess he was looking for 3 years at that annual rate which took the teams out of the bidding

It depends on who we get.

If we get better prospects than the value of a sandwich round and second round pick (which is what we probably would have gotten), they, yeah, it helped. If we have to take just organizational filler to move his salary, not so much.

Fuck u soriano

nick9314 - December 8, 2009 reply

I know a player daring to look out for his own best interests, the nerve!

Lennox - December 8, 2009 reply

I know what a bastard.

haha. I was joking...

nick9314 - December 8, 2009 reply

I like the Orioles idea of shipping Lowe and Soriano… Wouldn’t mind getting Luke Scott, he is left handed tho… Would still be nice

HansonManCrush - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

I’d want Reimold if we gave up Lowe and Soriano

YES.

Good call

HansonManCrush - December 8, 2009 via mobile reply

Just curious but Reimold or Roberts?

Reimold is younger but Roberts has already proven (over a couple years) that he can make an impact

Money speaking

Reimold would be much cheaper right?

And thus harder to get. He’s young, cheap, and team controlled. Roberts is making 10M a year, so it would be easier from their end to move him to help balance the fact that they are adding roughly 23M in salary, and they’d get to keep their young rising start that way. Plus MLBTR is reporting they have interest in Uggla, so they might be anticipating moving Roberts somewhere anyway, and I wouldn’t exactly complain if that somewhere was Atlanta.

Nor would I

complain about getting Roberts. If all things were equal (money, age, etc) I guess I would like Reimold as well. My only concern would be that we have younger guys that haven’t proven themselves as of yet and Roberts track record would be very re-assuring.

Unless we ate a bunch of money, we wouldn't get either...

Reimold or Roberts. But that is fine. If they’ll take the contracts, I am sure we’ll move them for next to nothing. The more money we add to the kitty, the better a player we get.

Reimold.

Kid has some pop

I’d take Reimold. He’s a righty outfielder with pop, which is what we’d like to have. The only reason he hasn’t been up before 2009 is they kept him in AA for 3 years for no reason. He was an absolute powerhouse the month he was here in Norfolk.

cbwilk - December 8, 2009 reply

Reimold and Roberts

Lowe, Soriano, and KJ

Cracker! - December 9, 2009 reply

Why would the Orioles do that?...

throw in Cody Johnson and Cole Rohrbough, and maybe.

justincredubil02 - December 9, 2009 reply

Then Wren should hang up the phone.

That is in no way fair to Atlanta.

Obviously...

I think that is more fair than the original rosterbation.
Lowe—we’re desperate to move
Soriano-also need to move
KJ-not as good as Brian Roberts

So they get the lesser of the 2B, and take on two salaries for the cheap, but productive Reimold? And while Rohrbough and Johnson have talent, they also have some big question marks and may never pan out.

We’d get a starting 2B and leadoff hitter that is among the best out there, allowing Prado to either play 1st or move back into a super utility role with Infante, and get a young right handed slugger for LF to join McLouth/Schafer in CF and Heyward in RF. Personally, I think that is a great move for the Braves, but that’s me. And as I’ve said before, I seem to value/want an improvement at leadoff more than most others.

There’s also Nick Markakis

Slee - December 8, 2009 reply

I have wet dreams about him too

wordddd

nick9314 - December 8, 2009 reply

Ha ha ha ha

And I thought this off season would be boring.

I’ve actually been watching baseball tonight to hear of any nuggets of info. Good times!

Sparhawk - December 8, 2009 reply

Yech.

ESPN is terrible for baseball coverage if you’re not a Yankee or Red Sox fan. MLBTR has round-the-clock coverage and typically scoop ESPN anyway, as they post the moment a story breaks from any outlet.

Yes

MLBTR>>>>>>>>BBTN

bbxxj - December 8, 2009 reply

just as soon as the braves play their last game of the year, i switch my main mlb news bookmark to MLBTR

Slee - December 8, 2009 reply

Nice, I’ve now added MLBTR to my favorites list. Still nice watching something about baseball on tv, so I’ll continue watching Baseball Tonight. I like Peter Gammons.

Sparhawk - December 8, 2009 reply

Bad news than

Gammons is leaving ESPN after the winter meetings. Don’t shoot the messenger.

BTW, MLB Tonight on MLBN is actually worth watching if you’re pining for something on TV.

He is joining MLB network

blitzerlover - December 8, 2009 reply

Good to know. I suspected it was either that or maybe he was gonna take time off and write a book, but my money was on MLB Network.

Where did you hear that?

I was hoping he would but can’t find it anywhere.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/12/gammons_to_leav.html

blitzerlover - December 8, 2009 reply

I even found it in the article that I read prior to my question. Don’t know how I didn’t pick up on it.

Too much winter meeting excitement I guess

Gammons didn’t look too good today on ESPN. I thought it might have been health related, but now I know why.

Sparhawk - December 8, 2009 reply

Carlos Lee..

Astros were mention and this came to mind but it won’t happen. Owed 18.5 next three years so that comes out to 55.5 mill.. Lowe and Soriano for him haha would u guys do it? Or what about Berkman?

Berkman, yes but no chance in hell Houston gives him up. Carlos Lee, No

Agreed

Just imagine Wren pulling off a trade for both of them hahaha.. Y don’t you like Lee bc he’s getting old declining with bat and glove?

That, and his price tag. The main reason we have to trade Soriano is because of his salary. There’s no point if we get back another monster contract

not quite accurate...

the problem with Soriano was his redundant salary when we have Saito and Wagner and Moylan. Move Soriano’s salary for a similar salary in a spot we actually need, like 1B or perhaps a year of slugging corner OF, maybe a quality leadoff hitter, and it makes lots of sense. We were planning on spending Soriano’s salary anyway, we just didn’t want to spend it on Soriano, thus a trade.

Lee

would fill that void that we so desperatley need in LF and that power bat to protect chipper

Lee

would fill Left Field in name only. He is a DH. He plays a terrible left field, even when playing in Minute Maid Park. He is getting old and is expensive. I’d rather play Gregor Blanco out there at league minimum with plus defense

Lee's irrelevant.

He has made it clear that he won’t waive his no-trade clause.

I thought he was older then 33. .300 + avg. 25 plus HR good OBP. He doesn’t walk as much as anybody would like for a 4 hitter but he keeps his K’s down.

I’d take Lee with his contract over Blanco. Simply bc you couldn’t get no worse the FUGA and Lee is better then him. His offense is what we need and thats what we would add him for.

Yes, his power would be nice, but it doesn’t come in a vacuum. For example, last year Lee was worth approximately 1.5 wins with his bat, before accounting for position. He gave back a half win just with his defense, so in reality he was only worth 1 win. When he comes to play in the more spacious Turner Field, his fielding numbers will only get worse. For his 15m illion or so dollars, he better be a Top 5 hitter in the league, which he isn’t. I truly believe throwing a Blanco or Brandon Jones out there, while not getting the same offensive production, will be MUCH MUCH better defensively. All the while costing 14.5 million less.

Fangraphs has Lee as a 2.5 win player overall and while he won’t be worth his salary, he may be worth the loss of Soriano’s and Lowe’s huge contracts, no?

acie4mvp - December 8, 2009 reply

Agree

it would be a hell of a lot better defense and cost less. but blanco isn’t going to win us a championship let alone a Division title. Lee would be an impact bat that we need. There arn’t alot of players out there that are 5 tools and let alone available. So we would have to take the bad with the good. Good facts tho eaheckman

Always pleased it have a legitimate discussion with someone lol

But Lee has a no trade clause...

and won’t waive it. He’s in Houston and not going anywhere until he does.

Oh, and there’s “reply” under every post. Click it to respond to people and it gets much easier to follow the conversation.

catbird seat

my view this provides flexibility after absorbing loss of draft picks, most of
whom never make the show long term. wagner and saito are not a fountain
of youth, hence the ideal 3rd wheel soriano could likely move up as season
progresses. he has stated he wanted to remain in ATL. beyond this he provides
trade value to a top tier team needing a 1 year wonder or an audition for a longer
contract.
the B’s also have a nice pipeline of young arms kimbrel, medlen, gearrin, vasquez,
and this will either buy more time for seasoning or again if soriano goes perhaps
in a package we get a top of the order hitter. the only reason soriano requests a
trade is the depth chart, and FW gets to decide what we need when the dust settles.
in other words this ain’t maddox redux.

sealift67 - December 8, 2009 reply

On Bowman’s twitter page he says that something could happen very soon with Soriano.

I’d like him to put up a blog post expounding on that. I trust him, but this is one of the reasons I hate Twitter- so few details.

http://markbowman.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/12/day_2_recap_from_winter_meetin.html

That’s his day 2 blog.

Thanks

Man, I would kill to be fly on the wall at those meetings this week. That’s WAY more exciting than finals…

THIS

Zeus12888 - December 8, 2009 reply

yes, yes. And so far my time spent studying reflects this sentiment.

I don’t usually get upset at a player, but I’m a bit perturbed at Soriano. I know it’s probably in his best interest and the Braves may end up with something better and cheaper than 2 high draft picks but man, he really worked the system and force the Braves to have to do a lot of work for him. The fact this came out the day after is just silly to me.

cbwilk - December 8, 2009 reply

I don’t think he would have turned down more money if it was offered to him just to get on the FO’s nerves. This was the best he could get, so he did what he had to do. The FO was the one that offered him arbitration and perhaps prematurely signed a reliever and a closer. Like you said, it is it Raffy’s best interest, and I can’t blame him for that.

I agree, logically. It probably was the best move for him. Still doesn’t prevent me from emotionally being a little miffed at him.

cbwilk - December 9, 2009 reply

He was a free agent...

…he didn’t owe the Braves anything. We offered, he accepted. He is willing to be traded. Hell, it might even work out better for us. Blame the system, not the player.

Actually, I blame Wren. If he had waited on Wagner and Saito for a few days, ATL would be stoked right now with having Soriano back for one year.

Yakker - December 9, 2009 reply

True, true.

Gage23 - December 9, 2009 reply

Pretty sure my statement just said I knew logically it made sense but I was having an emotional reaction, so why would you come back with logic?

cbwilk - December 9, 2009 reply

I know Brian Roberts named was mentioned earlier as an option

But has it been even reported that he is available or that management will listen to offers? Because if he is, I would not mind his bat at the top of the Brave’s lineup. imo he is the kind of player Atlanta could use.

SmithnCompany - December 9, 2009 reply

Not to my knowledge. I mentioned it in the Reimold discussion above for two reasons: a)If the O’s are the team looking at Lowe and Soriano, they’ll need to move a bit of salary, which they won’t do by moving Reimold (unfortunately. I’d love to have Reimold), combined with b) they’ve been linked to Dan Uggla in recent specualtion. Put the two together and you’d think if they’re bringing in Uggla, Roberts and his 10M salary might be moved our way in the Lowe/Sori swap. It makes sense in a way, but nothing official has come out on it yet.

The O's probably wouldn't have to shed salary, however.

They have a ton of money to spend this off-season. They aren’t a particularly small budget team and they got a bunch of bad contracts off the books the past couple of seasons (Mora, Tejada, etc.) Once they finally stop paying Albert Belle, they’ll have a ton of money to spend. ;)

apoxonbothyourhouses - December 9, 2009 reply

and move Escobar to 4th?

Escobar hits too many groundballs, from what I’ve seen. If you want power production at the cleanup spot, Esco’s not your man.

ATLforlife - December 9, 2009 reply

Ken Rosenthal’s Twitterfeed: "Add Angels to list of teams on R. Soriano. Astros, Orioles also involved. Soriano’s permission required – could effectively pick team."

Cracker! - December 9, 2009 reply

Soriano for Juan Rivera or Brandon Wood?

apoxonbothyourhouses - December 9, 2009 reply

Soriano

for Wood would be a steal for us. Don’t think the Angels do that unless they have Beltre in the bag.

Any way Chipper moves back to LF?

haha, i jest.

To be honest...

I’d rather not deal with the Angels. Still feeling burned from Kotch/Marek, aka The Less Brothers (Worth and Use).

We did that to ourselves

Cracker! - December 9, 2009 reply

We FW did that to ourselves

FTFY. One of his not-so-brilliant moves.

Not so brilliant? What would you have done instead? Kept Tex and take the drafts picks through arb? It’s not like people were knocking down our door with great deals.

Smoltz's Beard - December 9, 2009 reply

Better to roll the dice on a couple picks that pick up two absolutely worthless players in exchange for a valuable commodity. They went out looking for someone who would send a 1B back in return, which was mostly wishful thinking given the time left on Tex’s deal. I’d have seen what the absolute best return, not necessarily a 1B, was for him and then made my decision. But if I was gonna get peanuts back, screw the deal, I’ll take my chances in the draft.

Better to roll the dice on a couple picks ~~that~~ THAN pick up two absolutely worthless players in exchange for a valuable commodity.

epic typo fail.

Fair enough.

Smoltz's Beard - December 9, 2009 reply

That may have been the biggest problem...

demanding a major league ready 1B in return.

We could have let Prado/Infante platoon there for the last two months. With pitching injuries and trading Tex we’d already punted the season anyway, so let them platoon to finish the year and worry about 1B in the offseason. Casey Kotchman should never have been considered a solution.

Or given Canizares a tryout...

who knows, even if he flubbed the field he might have raked at the plate and become a valuable trade piece to an AL team that can DH him.

Exactly

Anything could have happened that offseason. Maybe we would have had a full year of Adam, the Pirates might have gone for that. Or maybe we could have gotten Konerko rather than Vaz from Chicago (less likely) and now not have a starting pitching surplus. Who knows what might have been. Bottom line is that with the season over, there was no reason to demand a 1B in return. Either get the best possible return or, if that’s not good enough, roll the dice on the picks.

That’s been my only real qualm with Wren as a GM, forcing the issue of getting a 1B in return on that trade.

cbwilk - December 9, 2009 reply

nice

Rivera would be great but the Angels aren’t trading Wood. They have him starting at 3B next year and most people think he is untouchable.

jack dein - December 9, 2009 reply

Stealing a line from the Mariner's GM on MLB network this morning...

“Elliot Ness is untouchable”, everyone else not so much—said in response to a question about King Felix as “untouchable”.