There are just too many hints at something tonight not to pass them along. First up is Buster Olney @ 9pm:
Heard this: Yankees working very hard tonight on deal for starting pitcher. Remember that they came close to deal for Aaron Harang in summer
Then Ken Davidoff about 20 minutes ago:
Hear that #Yankees have "two or three" serious trade talks for starting pitcher - A. Harang isn't one of them.
Then Ken Rosenthal shortly thereafter:
Source: Yankees in "active negotiations" for a starting pitcher. Not Harang. Trying to find out who.
...and...
This would be a trade, not a free-agent signing.
Then Ken Davidoff again:
Tweeps, I'm not teasing you. I don't know who the pitchers/teams are re: #Yankees trades. Trying to find out...
No mention of the Braves, but I'm still curious... very, very curious.
[UPDATE 10:40] Now Jon Heyman rules out the Zambrano rumor:
#yanks in talks for starting pitcher. doesnt appear to be harang. maybe not zambrano either (tho they talked to #cubs)
And by process of elimination, doesn't it just about have to be Lowe, or some trade target we haven't heard of yet.
1 recs | 359 comments
Get Er’ Done Frank!!!
drumzalicious - December 21, 2009 via mobile
It would be nice if Wren cleaned up the mess he created, yes.
Lennox - December 21, 2009
what mess?
Frank Wren has done fine this offseason. People are upset that he hasnt pursued certain players but honestly i dont blame him for not persuing Cameron. He isnt a true power threat, his career is on the decline seeing as how he is like 37. LaRoche is seeking too much money and too long of a contract.
drumzalicious - December 21, 2009
He has us locked in to $15MM a year for the next 3 years to Methuselah Lowe. That’s a huge mess that will cripple this team for years if it’s not fixed.
Lennox - December 21, 2009
Good thing we all knew that those Hanson, Kawakami, Hudson and Vazquez guys would all be so good.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
Dude was 36 years old, and Wren locked $60 MM in to him.
Then we went and extended Hudson without moving Lowe first, now we’ve got a $15 MM 6th starter on our roster.
Lennox - December 21, 2009
Damn…that is horrible GM-ing…what kind of GM invests in good starting pitching???
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
Yeah, what was I thinking? Every team wishes that they were paying $15 MM a year to a guy that they don’t have a spot on the team for.
Lennox - December 21, 2009
Pretty sure he was the opening day starter…
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
Yeah, which really helps us now.
Lennox - December 21, 2009
It gives us a tradeable commodity.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
Oh wait, Frank Wren isn’t God.
…Jesus.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - December 21, 2009
Seriously.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
Yeah, it would take the wisdom of Odin to realize you shouldn’t lock yourself in to a 4 year $60,000,000 deal with a 36 year old pitcher.
Lennox - December 21, 2009
It would have taken the wisdom of Oden to realize that Hanson would be ready, Huddy would fully recover, Kawakami would adjust and Vaz would turn it on…but you are right…should have never signed a guy who can throw 200 innings every single year with effective results, even though we didn’t have a guy do that for about 3 years…
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
So, the answer was to overpay for an aging pitcher?
Lennox - December 21, 2009
yeah. when you have nothing else to do
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
Doing nothing is sometimes the best choice, long term.
Lennox - December 22, 2009
not really, at least in this case. i shouldn’t have to explain why. its already been done. but to each his own opinion
GoBravesNY - December 22, 2009
So Wren shoudln’t have signed a top of the rotation pitcher?
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
No, he shouldn’t have signed Derek Lowe.
Lennox - December 22, 2009
Quit being an idiot
Lowe was a good signing at the time.
KaPowakami and Huddy could be debatable, but not really Lowe. We were a little desperate for an “ace”.
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
No, Lowe would have been a good signing at the time with a better contract, but Wren decided to blow away the nearest reported offer to make it happen.
Lennox - December 22, 2009
He did notch 15 Wins and could have had a few more. Fact.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - December 21, 2009
It’s a “fact” that he could have notched a few more?
Lennox - December 22, 2009
Braden Looper won 14.
Salty - December 22, 2009
I guess your preferred answer would have been to use JoJo and win 70 games?
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
No, I’d have offered Lowe a more reasonable contract, and moved on to other options if he didn’t sign. The nearest offer was something like 3/$36 from the Mets.
Lennox - December 22, 2009
...that you think you know of.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
He could have been dumber and paid even more cash to AJ Burnett.
jeg - December 22, 2009
I didn’t know Greg Oden was wise about baseball contracts.
Bronn - December 21, 2009
He also had exceptionally low mileage on his arm for his age, and showed no signs whatsoever of slowing down.
Get over it.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
Melodrama, much?
Lowe has averaged around $15M in value the last 4 years. Even if he slides down to $12M or $10M, it would hardly cripple the team.
Yakker - December 21, 2009
+1
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
Which is why I think the fangraphs $ values are inflated.
A guy having a mediocre seasons like Lowe had is worth $12 MM a year?
Cole Hammels was worth $17 MM last year?
John Smoltz was worth $5MM for the Cards?
Lennox - December 21, 2009
Good point. I didn’t think about it like that. Since the data doesn’t agree with your notion of value, it must be the data that’s wrong, not your notion.
Yakker - December 22, 2009
This.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
Yeah, that’s right. Thanks for understanding.
I think there’s a scale issue between their “win value” and what real players make, where you shouldn’t just throw “He was worth X last year according to fangraphs,” out there as evidence for or against his contract.
Actual ACE caliber pitchers are worth somewhere around 30 MM by their system. Grienke was the top pitcher, worth $42MM.
CC, the top paid pitcher in the game, made $23 MM last year.
The real world contract of a player and the theoretical value of a WAR just aren’t the same thing.
Lennox - December 22, 2009
And Jason Marquis just got $15M/2. So what?
Guys sign contracts all the time that either overvalue or undervalue them; that’s not exactly news. Lowe’s contract was probably a slight overpay at the time, but, as others have explained ad nauseum, Wren saw value in his dependability and consistency.
Regardless, to say that the contract will “cripple” the Braves for years is either blatant hyperbole or regrettably foolish.
Yakker - December 22, 2009
Yakker, not to be off topic,
But I just realized what your picture is. And it is amazing.
The Keith Lockhart Era - December 22, 2009
Ha ha
Thanks.
Yakker - December 22, 2009
LOL, yes, there was obviously some hyperbole involved
I think Marquis is exactly the point, he’s not “under valued”, the fangraphs money value is just on a whole different scale than the real world salaries these guys get. You can’t just compare Lowe being worth $12 MM on fangraphs to his $15 MM contract last year in a dollar for dollar sense.
Lowe and his $12 MM value is the 54th ranked starting pitcher on fangraphs.
The top 3 pitchers are worth $42, $37, and $37 MM.
In the real world Lowe was the highest paid player on our team, took up about 1/6th of the payroll, and was a top 10 paid player at his position. You simply need more production out of that much money than 54th best in the game if you’re going to contend.
If we can’t move Lowe, then, yes, I do think it will certainly seriously impact our ability to operate in the FA/trade markets over the next few years.
Lennox - December 22, 2009
Fangraphs analyzes the value in wins per player. Surely you don’t quibble with the methodology used to compute WAR? Taking it the next step and analyzing how much a win is “worth” on the market is simply a logical extension of that. Again, if you’re really that bothered by the results, perhaps you need to reconsider your view of value.
Obviously, what someone is able to negotiate may differ from that, especially in an inefficient market such as MLB.
Yakker - December 22, 2009
It’s a misallocation of funds sure but like justin said no one could have predicted how quickly Hanson adjusted, the emergence of Vazquez as an ace, the continued success of Jurrjens, Kawkami being a legitimate MLB starter, and Hudson returning from TJ sans problems. If Wren had counted on all those happening and they didn’t we would be crippled but signing Lowe hardly “crippled” us
McCann's the Man - December 21, 2009
MLBTR said it wasn’t a salary dump situation, i wonder if that is just relevant for the Yankees or for either team involved..
scottsharp76 - December 21, 2009
Per MLBTR
9:11pm: Now Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News tweets that the Yankees are “close to a deal for a starting pitcher, says a source. Still working on who, but I’m told it’s not a salary dump deal”.
If it involves us it might be something bigger than just Lowe. Hasnt NY long lusted for a reliable utility man? Lowe+ Infante for Swisher+ prospect?
!Vive la Francoeur! - December 21, 2009
I doubt
It is that because we would be the one giving prospects in that case.
JasonHeywardisGod - December 21, 2009
We would?
Why?
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
We have other pitchers besides Lowe. I doubt they’d want Vazquez, but they may seriously be giving a look at KaPowakami or Jurjiens. They’d have to send us some prospects, Swisher, and Mega-ball cash for JJ…
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 21, 2009
forget megaball cash
I would want Cano and Swisher lol
drumzalicious - December 21, 2009
Why would we dump Infante like that?
If we plan to contend, he has a role—and an important one—on this team.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
Agreed entirely
We can get rid of D-Lowe without blowing up the rest of the roster as well.
The Keith Lockhart Era - December 22, 2009
Heyman
just tweeted its not Zambrano either
drumzalicious - December 21, 2009
I updated
[UPDATE 10:40] Now Jon Heyman rules out the Zambrano rumor:
#yanks in talks for starting pitcher. doesnt appear to be harang. maybe not zambrano either (tho they talked to #cubs)
And by process of elimination, doesn’t it just about have to be Lowe, or some trade target we haven’t heard of yet.
gondeee - December 21, 2009
I really want to go to bed, but I feel I can’t… DAMN YOU HOT STOVE!!!
gondeee - December 21, 2009
I have to pee so badly but I am afraid to leave my computer. And there are no empty soda bottles in reach. I am screwed.
!Vive la Francoeur! - December 21, 2009
just pee on the floor and clean it up later.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
i’m starting to have to pee, have the same problem, and have carpeting.
Teach me!
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
oh right… /sarcasm
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
If you have carpet, just lay some newspaper down – but you would have had to do this prior to getting involved on the interwebs…a little fore-sight is what you need!
:)
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
damn.. i have a notebook….
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
Hope your aim is true.
Yakker - December 22, 2009
Always leave a gatorade bottle in reach...
nick9314 - December 21, 2009
Code Red!
It’s the only WoW fuel there is.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
Lowe is not a salary dump.
If that makes Yankee fans feel better. I’d still be happy for them taking the full contract and a bag of balls in return. ;)
cavebird - December 21, 2009
DOB but at 9 so who know's what's up
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
(passes out)
Chief Noc-A-Homa - December 21, 2009
oh Chief…
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
This potential Yankees trade doesn’t sound like a salary dump, which would eliminate Derek Lowe.
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 21, 2009
damn
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
Crap.
I was already penciling Swisher into LF and 5th in the lineup.
Yakker - December 21, 2009
not 4th?
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 21, 2009
nah, Bobby likes Mac too much in the 4 spot even if it makes more sense for him to hit 5 behind Swisher
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
i would
hate Bobby forever if he batted McCann ahead of Swish.
I already wonder how we would have done if Laroche was hitting cleanup for us instead of 7th
drumzalicious - December 21, 2009
Let’s pretend that never happened…
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
wish i could
but i also highly believe we would have been in the post season . . .
drumzalicious - December 21, 2009
I am refusing to think about it.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
leave the past behind us. lets move on and kick ass
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
How much snow did you get?
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
7-10 inches. at least i’m not on the island. Thanks for asking
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
LUCKY
South Jersey got 20 inches dumped on us
bpk228480 - December 22, 2009
wow. I’m sorry. that must’ve been a bitch to shovel out. i had enough trouble up here
GoBravesNY - December 22, 2009
I’m jealous of you guys…I want snow!
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
THIS
It’s now snowed almost everywhere in the country but here in Tennefuckinsee. I HATE this state. But, ya know, for a lot more reasons than just snow…
J-Freak - December 22, 2009
Tennessee doesn’t blow nearly as bad as Texas does…I really don’t get why people write songs about this place. It sucks.
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
It's a surface area kind of deal.
The per capita songs aren’t all that impressive.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
I’ve only visited the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, and it was years ago in middle school. But I hate this damn state with a passion, especially my hometown of Memphis (or Memphrica, or Armpit of the South, it goes by a lot of names). No one knows how to drive, EVERYFUCKINGTHING gets reduced to a racial issue, transportation/city planning is a joke… I just can’t wait to finish my degree and take the first bus outta this godforsaken dump.
J-Freak - December 22, 2009
Haha...
Memphis hardly counts as Tennessee. But it sure does suck.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
I am not a fan of Memphis, and Dallas/Ft Worth is about the nicest thing in Texas, outside of Austin.
Speaking of people not being able to drive, I can guarantee you that on any given day, if you go to any random parking lot, you will find no less than 5 people double parked…unintentionally. People in this town really cannot park.
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
You’re not alone, most of us that live here are not fans of Memphis. I hear it was a fairly nice place to live before the 90s, but then that asshole mayor took office and basically ruled this place for my entire lifetime, and his administration has driven us right into the ground. I’ve never seen one guy fuck up so much and still find a way to get re-elected. It boggles the mind.
J-Freak - December 22, 2009
It took like 4 hours just to do my driveway. The roads our horrible in my little town. We’re basically shut down till New Years.
bpk228480 - December 22, 2009
are horrible*
bpk228480 - December 22, 2009
lucky kinda. i really can’t deal with classes this week. plus i overall love the snow
GoBravesNY - December 22, 2009
Huge tackle football game tomorrow, I’m so pumped. The only problem is 20 inches is tough to run in.
bpk228480 - December 22, 2009
Classes?
Are you in HS?
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
24 inches in Boone, NC.
Mountaintop, baby.
The Keith Lockhart Era - December 22, 2009
I flew up to NY today
Out on long island, where I’m visiting my sister, they got like 3 feet
Bronn - December 21, 2009
yeah it was crazy! but the snow came too early. had to go to damn classes today
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
Yeah
looks like it wasn’t too bad in the city. But the wind made it the roughest landing I ever recall experiencing.
Bronn - December 21, 2009
probably. wind was horrible all over the tri-state. city was okay but got the least. i think for once Jersey got it the best
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
we cant
if our manager refuses to hit the hottest hitter on the team in the top part of the lineup. then it wouldnt matter who we got
drumzalicious - December 21, 2009
This
Yakker - December 22, 2009
I don’t get how this eliminate’s D-Lowe if it isn’t a salary dump for the Yanks…now, if they said it wasn’t a salary dump for Atlanta, that would be one thing, but I read this to mean the Yanks aren’t dumping any salary, since it is a Yanks rumor.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
good point… plus this guy seems half drunk/half asleep/watching the MNF game…
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
The Redskins are horrible tonight.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
exactly. even i’ve turned off the game
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
I feel really bad for Campbell…he is a good QB.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
I feel bad for Jay Cutler
25 INT’s through 14 games…what a bum.
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
I was an apologist for him early on, but gosh, he just has looked worse and worse. At the beginning, a lot of the INTs were tipped passes or bad routes or something like that…lately, he just looks like he doesn’t care where the ball goes.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
Imagine my disapointment
I mean, I’m a Bears fan for God’s sake!
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
Forte must really be upsetting you then too.
Gosh…I think the Bears are going the way of the Lions very quickly.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
Our pourus O-line doesn't help
It’s like swiss cheese.
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
at least you aren’t the Rams…
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
Not for long we're not.
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
But the Rams have Steven Jackson at least.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
true
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
And at least the Browns have...
uh, Josh Cribbs, I don’t know.
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
Brady Quinn!
HAHAhA
“NOW I’m done!”
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
I can top that. the 49ers
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
The 49ers are actually a really good team. I like what they have done.
They will make the playoffs next year.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
with what QB? I’m sorry they won’t make it until they have a solid QB
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
You’ve never heard of Alex Smith? That guy is a man among boys!
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
Alex Smith will be fine.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
i dunno.. maybe enough to get there but not to win it all
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
They'll end up with two top-20 picks.
Panthers traded our #1 for Everette Brown.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
Patrick Willis. What a beast.
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
JAMES HARRISON!
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
yeah…your whole roster is like swiss cheese…except for Jonny Knox (I am in Abilene right now, so I like to follow him)
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
Knox is one of our few bright spots. Too early to tell, but looking like a #1 reciever.
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
Along those lines, Abilene High School just won the Texas 5A Championship…the game was broadcast state-wide on ABC – in HD.
High School Football is no joke around here.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
Don Bosco. Represent!
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
or not really but whatever
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
Congrats.
Baseball doesn’t stand a chance in Texas as long as football is around.
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
The line is SO bad.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
He's just not a winner.
When a guy’s not a leader of a winning team his whole post-HS career, that’s no coincidence. He was also referred to as “borderline uncoachable” by a source inside the Bears org. based on what I heard on ESPN Radio today.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
I always mock that “winner” sort of idea in baseball, but in football, it is legit. There are just some guys who get it done when it counts – Rothlesburger, Manning (both), Brady…it isn’t a coincidence. Those guys are all gamers.
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
Particularly at that position.
I hate that Panther fans are so down on Jake Delhomme. He’s had an awful season, to be sure, but he’s also got one of the best six or seven winning percentages as a starter in the league since he won the job, and he’s also in the top two or three in fourth-quarter comebacks.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
To me, that is the definition of a good QB – the 4th quarter.
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
does any of you guys think Favre is starting to slump?
Kobe:The Legend - December 21, 2009
100%. I saw this with the Jets. Happening all over again
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
Hell. Yes. Wait ’til the playoffs.
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
Train wreck?
AeroDawg - December 21, 2009
That’s what Farve is.
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
If anyone didn’t see it coming, they don’t know football.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
lol – you think he’s going to get another torn biceps tendon?
Salty - December 22, 2009
Nah…he is just old. This is a young man’s game. When was the last time he didn’t slow down around December?
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
07
Salty - December 22, 2009
Ha...
The Giants disagree.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
Seahawks vote yes.
Salty - December 26, 2009
I mean look at him the past 3 games… im a Vikings fan but with Favre slumping we could lose in the first round
Kobe:The Legend - December 21, 2009
I’d venture to say you will. His inability to pass is hurting Peterson and the entire offense.
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
and we were a running game before him and now peterson cant run either
Kobe:The Legend - December 21, 2009
My fantasy team laments this fact. I have Peterson and missed the playoffs…ridiculous.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
wow. ftr.. did Turner’s team make it?
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
Nope…that was the last team in the league. The rest of his team blows monkey nuts. Mine was actually decent though:
Favre, Petersen, Miles Austin, Hakim Nicks, Tim Hightower, Marion Barber…
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
I had a decent team too but the team I was playing against exploded in the semifinals, he had Rodgers, and A. Johnson
Kobe:The Legend - December 21, 2009
No joke, in every league I played in this year (4 of them) I had the most points scored against me. Also, in every league, I lost to the last place team because the week I played them, they went off.
For example, in one league, I played the last place team (with a 1-9 record at the time) on Thanksgiving…he had Stafford and Calvin…I got beat badly and was the 3rd highest scoring team that week.
In my money league, I was the 2nd highest scoring team….and missed the playoffs.
Fantasy football bent me over royally this year.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
the horror! the horror!
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
I finished with the most points scored in the league and finished 7-7… I had Chris Johnson, Phillip Rivers, Ray Rice, Dallas Clark, Sims-Walker, Fitzgerald and Minnesota D
Kobe:The Legend - December 21, 2009
How did you finish 7-7 with that roster?
I know MSW disappeared for about 3 weeks (I had him too and am a Jags fan), but geez, the rest of your team should have been able to pick him up!
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
I know!! every time I played I finished with 120 points but my opponent finished with 130
Kobe:The Legend - December 21, 2009
wow
thats just bad i am in the play offs in 2 of my 3 leagues and going to the championship game next week MoJo carried both my teams to the championship
Erihury - December 21, 2009
MoJo makes me proud to be a Jags fan…our arrow is definitely pointing up!
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
I really like the Jags and I hoped they could beat the Colts
Kobe:The Legend - December 22, 2009
fail. defense is too weak
GoBravesNY - December 22, 2009
You mean the D line is too weak. The rest of the squad is pretty good. Nelson is a bit out of position at safety, but the LBs and the DBs are all good.
We need a pass-rush. We didn’t even attempt to get to Manning.
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
yeah. that
GoBravesNY - December 22, 2009
Where do you think Nelson should play?
He never played anywhere but there in college, and I desperately wanted him in the draft to play FS for years.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
I think he would make a better DB than a safety. He is afraid of contact and misses a bunch of tackles. I am not sure how good he is at sticking a route or reading a QB, but he is definately outmatched in the safety spot.
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
CB, you mean?
I thought he had a shot there early this season due to injuries and failed miserably.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
I think he was our safety from the get-go this season…maybe you are right though…We have had so many defensive changes this season, I have lost track.
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
Aha...got it.
He was replacing Mathis.
And I’ll admit I haven’t actually seen him play much. But I’m a UF fan and loved him in college, and liked the numbers he put up as a rookie.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
Yeah, I thought he replaced Mathis.
He was good in college, but he is overmatched in the NFL – at least against Peyton Manning…
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
Then again...
plenty do.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
we were sooo close.
That game reminded me a ton of the playoff game against NE two years ago when Brady was nearly perfect.
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
not a Jags
fan but i love MoJo i really wanted to get Peterson but i hope MoJo can carry me to a championship next week
Erihury - December 22, 2009
I like that they always stick around, even if they're under the radar or lacking in elite talent.
I’d like to think as a Panthers fan that Fox helped instill some of that coaching fire in Del Rio.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
God.
Things like that make me hate statistics.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
wow. damn. i take it you choked down the stretch?
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
More like Speederson!
That is a burn.
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
did you guys see his touchdown yesterday…?
Kobe:The Legend - December 21, 2009
Yes, that occasional shoddy tackling issue that's been cropping up for us all year.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
The Panthers have a REALLY good defense.
When Peppers feels like playing, it’s tough sledding for any QB. Add in the fact that their top wideouts were both struggling with injuries, as well as Peterson’s inability to get anything going on the ground, and it’s no wonder they struggled to move the ball.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
also, I don’t believe you can say salary dump and Yankees in the same sentence
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
you just did!
: )
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
damn. here’s one: can you end a sentence using the word “the”?
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
lol…you just did!
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
nicely played. I saw that somewhere and it took the guy 5 minuets to realize that
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
“My favorite band is The The.”
Yakker - December 22, 2009
Don't know.
Dude works for New York Daily News, so… I was just repeating the tweet.
Salary dump deal, though, to me means someone is dumping salary. Doesn’t matter who.
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 21, 2009
I know… but i’ve been following him.. he seems to be waiting for this so he can leave and watching the MNF game while waiting
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
I just read the tweet…I still don’t see how he can draw that conclusion.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
Lowe
is a salary dump deal.
It has been reported this isn’t one.
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 21, 2009
Lowe is only a salary dump if we don’t get anything of value in return. If another team can afford Lowe’s salary and is in need of him, they will be forced to give us more of what we want.
It isn’t like the other team has Wren by the balls here.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
Not trying to argue
but it is common knowledge that we want to dump Lowe for salary considerations.
So any deal involving Lowe is a salary dump deal.
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 21, 2009
not really
there are reports out saying how wren is more open to eating salary in order to get a better return.
drumzalicious - December 21, 2009
So, if the Angels and Yankees are both inquiring about Lowe (not a far-fetched possibility) and a bidding war ensues, it is still a salary dump?
I disagree.
We may be moving him to get some salary relief, but if we get a good return, it cannot be considered a salary dump.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
If two hobos are fighting over a wet cardboard box, does it still make it not trash?
Any deal involving Lowe is a salary dump just like a wet cardboard box is trash… unless we take on 45+ million
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 21, 2009
He's kind of a salary dump even if we get a piece like Swisher back.
I forget what the number we’ve decided we’d save in that exchange was, but it’s close to $10 mil next year. For a team claiming to cut back on payroll, that’s quite the bonus commitment.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
he’s officially 1 hour late on dispelling the Big Z rumor. Maybe it still is Lowe
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
That's about what it seemed like to me.
But he also didn’t seem particularly credible.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
that wouldnt eliminate Lowe
a salary dump is when we trade Lowe and get a C level prospect back.
Im pretty sure Wren is trying to get Swisher
drumzalicious - December 21, 2009
Exactly…if Atlanta is even involved in this deal.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
Even if it isn't Lowe
It could be JV. Would Yanks do Swisher for JV?
Bronn - December 21, 2009
JV would might block that. don’t think he wants to go back to NY
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
if he can. i’m to crammed with tests to remember if he has a no trade clause just to the west
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
Wren should block that.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
indeed
i want swisher but not at the cost of Vazquez. I would do Lowe and a pitching prospect but not Javy
drumzalicious - December 21, 2009
Why not, I wonder
One year of Javier Vazquez for three years of Nick Swisher’s peak seems like a really good deal.
Bronn - December 21, 2009
um
Swisher is only under contract 2 yrs i believe.
drumzalicious - December 21, 2009
2 years plus an option
IIRC
Bronn - December 21, 2009
sorry about that
thought it was one plus the option.
drumzalicious - December 21, 2009
Yankees don’t want Javy again. He didn’t do too well there.
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 21, 2009
and it would be worse
that park is a HR haven for LH batters and him being a fly ball pitcher . . . not looking good
drumzalicious - December 21, 2009
JV 2.0?
Doubt they’d want him again…
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 21, 2009
If there's $10 mil difference in salaries...
Something’s getting dumped.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
Probably just a bunch of BS
carry on.
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
Ouch, I just burned my hand on that hot stove...
nick9314 - December 21, 2009
knuck, knuck, knuck
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2mqqCMu-LM
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
You got me.
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
But Wait!
Is something brewing?!?
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
damn you…
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
Rick ROLLED
McCann and McWill - December 22, 2009
How do they make it last?
Is it just on a loop?
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
Appropriate for this thread
+1
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
Good news: The Mets are trying to bring back Pedro!
Imagine that…another hispanic signing my Omar Minaya…
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
Bwahahaha. If that happens were gonna have some fun here in NY
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
Hispanics are signing Omar?
Where??
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 21, 2009
Only the deaf ones
See what I did there?
Bronn - December 21, 2009
Is that sign something to do with the middle finger?
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 21, 2009
I didn’t know Jason Bay was Hispanic until the Mets started courting him.
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
Gotta misspell "Canadian" pretty bad to make him seem Dominican.
The Keith Lockhart Era - December 22, 2009
*by
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
Shhhhh!!
Aren’t you in the military?
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 21, 2009
Morrow traded to Blue Jays
for B. League and Prospect.
Interesting. I have a feeling in about 2 yrs the Blue Jays are going to have one of the best young rotations in baseball. aside from the Braves of course lol
drumzalicious - December 21, 2009
Jason Bay: Mexicanadian.
Bronn - December 21, 2009
reply fail
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
reply fail
Bronn - December 21, 2009
reply fail
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
reply...fail?
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
Hmm.. why not? Reply fail.
The Keith Lockhart Era - December 22, 2009
wow. source? I like Morrow. Kinda wish we had him
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
KROS on twitter
also just been posted on MLBTR
drumzalicious - December 21, 2009
Don't know if we've clarified since...
But as of lately, the trade hasn’t been mentioned to Morrow.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
Im impatient, i hate waiting!! say what team is negotiating with the yankees!
Kobe:The Legend - December 21, 2009
I’m tired and have a test. Lets get moving!
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
for gods sake I hate thiiiisss!…
Kobe:The Legend - December 21, 2009
yeah, imagine pre-internet. dark ages-type shit.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - December 21, 2009
when you had to wait for a newspaper! my god…
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
But at least then, we weren’t teased with twitter posts!
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
“Twitter-tease is what we used to call ’em……yeahhhhh. Bastards…”
Chief Noc-A-Homa - December 21, 2009
haha very nice
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
picture an old man saying it, tho. even funnier.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - December 21, 2009
I bet it's Gil Meche.
Somebody check to see if the Yankees have any former Braves on thier roster. If so then yeah it’s Meche.
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
what makes you say that?
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
Because
The Royals are trying to add more ex-Braves.
Bronn - December 21, 2009
so how does that have to do with the Yankees?
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
Meche is probably the best pitcher on the trade market.
And it’s a salary dump for the Royals.
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
oh, now i see. gotcha. i feel stupid
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
He is?
Would you really say he was better than Lowe last year?
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
Exactly.
I heard today they offered Corky Miller and Greg Norton big contracts.
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
Ryan Langerhans too
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
They have recently offered Dan Kolb the most lucrative contract in team history.
Man, they seem to be really serious about this year.
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
Wickman and Glavine are coming out of retirement!
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
…….in my dreams. ; )P
Chief Noc-A-Homa - December 21, 2009
We can rule the Mets out
as far as I know, neither of them are Hispanic.
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
wouldnt be surprised
for them to sign KJ
drumzalicious - December 21, 2009
I am still holding out hope that we will bring him back…
justincredubil02 - December 21, 2009
If he is still around after we trade a pitcher, I honestly think we will for about 2.2 million
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
He's got at least one standing offer...
D-Backs at $2 mil.
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
i wouldn’t be surprised if anyone did. I really like the guy. he’s a solid player
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
No doubt he signs with Royals.
He would actually make a bit of sense for them, though.
GouldisGold - December 21, 2009
If we are just guessing
I’m going with Josh Johnson, fucking Yankees
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 21, 2009
for who?
that would be their entire farm system
drumzalicious - December 21, 2009
for Swisher, like 5 prospects
Kobe:The Legend - December 21, 2009
they don’t really have prospects. It would be swish and cash
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
like 15 million?
Kobe:The Legend - December 21, 2009
maybe. no idea. probably in the range of 10-12
GoBravesNY - December 21, 2009
the prospect known as Johnny
CASH.
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 21, 2009
Johnson and Uggla for Swisher and Cano and 10 million??
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 21, 2009
in all seriousness
would have to be Montero and Hughes as a starting point
drumzalicious - December 21, 2009
montero is untouchable. they need backup for jorge
GoBravesNY - December 22, 2009
they will get a catcher from somewhere. I wouldnt be surprised if they actually get Johnson at the deadline. By that time we will know if Mauer has signed an extension. If he did they look for them to trade Montero for Johnson and then give Mauer a crazy contract
drumzalicious - December 22, 2009
but Mauer wants to stay in MIN so i think he’d take a discount
GoBravesNY - December 22, 2009
you know
there are many players that have wanted to stay somewhere and didnt want to take to much of a discount.
apparently Cliff Lee wanted to stay in Phillly and went from demanding 22 mil a year to 21 mil a year lol
drumzalicious - December 22, 2009
then he really didn’t want to be there
GoBravesNY - December 22, 2009
im just saying
a lot of players say that then you know run off to Yankee world.
drumzalicious - December 22, 2009
i know….
GoBravesNY - December 22, 2009
i hope
i wake up tomorrow and i find out Lowe has been traded i really dont care for what Swisher, Rivera, prospects etc.
Erihury - December 21, 2009
I hope I wake up with a naked Salma Hayek...
Would like that much better than Lowe being traded… :)
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
nah
Penelope Cruz. FTW
GoBravesNY - December 22, 2009
Kim Kardashian
drumzalicious - December 22, 2009
Barf.
Give me Marissa Miller any day.
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
thank you. you need actual beauty to get somewhere around here. not just implants
GoBravesNY - December 22, 2009
Besides, Kloe is the hottest sister of the 3…and she got knocked up!
BTW, how horrible of a mom do they have???
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
whoa whoa whoa
What implants?
drumzalicious - December 22, 2009
heard
stores of Butt Implants but i doubt it
Erihury - December 22, 2009
not at all
thats all natural and wonderful
drumzalicious - December 22, 2009
Actually
It is where all the crabs live.
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
lol
drumzalicious - December 22, 2009
3 letters
S
T
D
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
LOL
thats 75% of Holllywood
drumzalicious - December 22, 2009
You think she's up that high?
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
not really her but all of hollywood combined
drumzalicious - December 22, 2009
I bet she's been with more people than some anthills have ants.
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
What about
Eva Mendes
Erihury - December 22, 2009
Whew Lord
she is gorgeous too
drumzalicious - December 22, 2009
but that is true
GoBravesNY - December 22, 2009
foregin>US
GoBravesNY - December 22, 2009
Salma from Desperado or Eva in Ghost Rider?
I’d have to go Salma.
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
damn
just reminded me of From dusk til Dawn i wanna watch that now
Erihury - December 22, 2009
humina humina humina
boi-yoi-yoing
Chief Noc-A-Homa - December 22, 2009
Wow, you guys have surprisingly good taste.
Give me Mary Louise Parker.
Yakker - December 22, 2009
And she can sing!
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
Kate Beckinsale. nuff sed.
J-Freak - December 22, 2009
Sweet. Mrs Doubtfire is just coming on…something to do!
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
Mrs. Doubtfire or Betty White?
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
Betty White…she is hilarious!
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
Per DOB
“It would be such a seemingly awkward situation for him to come back now, that you wonder if the Braves might be inclined to a eat a bit more to make a deal happen.”
Bravely going forward - December 22, 2009
I was thinking about that…like Gondee said, Lowe just ensured that he is the one traded.
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
Na,
They’ll send him a fruit tray and everyone will be happy.
Gotta wonder why Javy isn’t busting When’s balls for shopping him…
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
Where were the fruit trays when we just let Chris Reitsma walk out of our lives?
The Keith Lockhart Era - December 22, 2009
Eat it!
Chief Noc-A-Homa - December 22, 2009
trade the bastard now.
SidKotchman - December 22, 2009
no no no no no
Hypothetically speaking, if you’re the Marlins, would you take a package led by Montero and Hughes or Joba for Josh Johnson?
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
No. really they have no replacement for posada
GoBravesNY - December 22, 2009
I don’t think the Yankees think that way as much as other teams do. They’ll simply buy another catcher.
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
thing is
next years FA pool doesnt really have any
drumzalicious - December 22, 2009
moot point
Montero is not sticking behind the plate.
was385 - December 22, 2009
That’s a pretty good deal for Atlanta though – J Johnson is better than what the marlins would be getting back…by a lot!
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
Hypothetically speaking
That deal sucks balls for Florida.
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
MichaelProcton - December 22, 2009
bed for me. hope this turns out well
GoBravesNY - December 22, 2009
Ok guys, i’m bouncing outta here…movie time with the little lady.
I hope this thing works out well!
justincredubil02 - December 22, 2009
screw this
going to sleep trade Lowe for anything id take a pack of Camels filtered, Gin and some condoms for Lowe
Erihury - December 22, 2009
Used or new?
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
New
and scratch the condoms get an autographed picture of William Shatner we can sell it on ebay for something
Erihury - December 22, 2009
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
WILLIAM SHATNER
GREATEST ACTOR EVAR
Erihury - December 22, 2009
And greatest musician. Hands down. Suck it Lennon.
The Keith Lockhart Era - December 22, 2009
The more important question is
…extra small or magnum?
coldriver10 - December 22, 2009
Well
my GF would prefer the her pleasure ones
Erihury - December 22, 2009
She usually does.
… :)
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
oh low blow
for that i declare a fatwa on your head infidel
Erihury - December 22, 2009
Not a fatwa!! On my head!!!
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
A marketing ploy, my friend. Don’t buy into it!
coldriver10 - December 22, 2009
I got my wad of 100’s and Magnum condoms….I’m ready to bang
bpk228480 - December 22, 2009
Last time we all stayed up til midnight or so
we found out we were trading Raffy for Jesse Chavez.
Lets all pray to Albert Pujols and Jason Heyward that we have different fortunes this time around.
Scott Coleman - December 22, 2009
I’d be ok with Lowe for Bobby Witt
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
who?
Scott Coleman - December 22, 2009
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
When I was a kid
I collected baseball cards. Bobby Witt was a running joke of ours. When someone wanted to trade bad cards, we’d always say “I wouldn’t trade that for Bobby Freaking Witt.”
I guess it doesn’t translate 15 years later.
Kelly's Big Johnson - December 22, 2009
Hahaha
who invited Big Bird to the thread?
And nope, I definately missed the Bobby Witt thing. I’m only 20 so it was probably before my time.
Scott Coleman - December 22, 2009
I gotcha
His rookie card is probably worth more if you use it to start a fire in your wood stove.
The Keith Lockhart Era - December 22, 2009
Yankees fans
really are some of the stupidest people in the country. Go check their SBN blog and check the thread for who the pitcher is.
Someone posted they got Matt Kemp and Clayton Kershaw for Cano and Joba…and they thought he was serious. FML.
Scott Coleman - December 22, 2009
Dude, it's Yankees fans
They’re too busy watching Entourage, shining their K-Swiss’s and talking about how Jeetah should run for Governor to research the quarter billion dollars their team is about to drop.
The Keith Lockhart Era - December 22, 2009
Wren is not a genius...
I am so sick of people on here drinking the Wren-Kool-Aid. Our GM is now good old Johnny, he has made mistakes, and as a fan I have a right to criticize them. Please don’t flame everyone on here who has an opinion about Wren where Wren != God. Wren has kinda screwed us on a few things, wake up Braves fans………
fizzbot - December 22, 2009
I meant “not” good old Johnnny.
fizzbot - December 22, 2009
You must Login with your SB Nation account and be a member of Talking Chop to post a comment.