The newest Atlanta Braves player and closer, Billy Wagner:
Here are some paraphrased quotes from the presser:
- Wagner was at the top of the off-season list of closers list for the Braves.
- In his first appearance back from TJ surgery, he threw against Atlanta, and was on the Braves' radar from that point.
- Wagner will enjoy playing closer to home.
- Wagner never felt any discomfort in his road back from TJ.
- First face-to-face discussion with Wagner and the Braves was last Tuesday.
- He's going to have to get with McLouth about getting #13. He told an interesting story about his grandfather and that number.
- He grew up loving Dale Murphy, and he grew up rooting for the Braves when they weren't that good.
- He feels the ball is jumping out of his hand again, like it hadn't done in many years.
Seems damn happy to be here.
By Gar, I’ll take it.
The Keith Lockhart Era - December 2, 2009
Now grab a dotel/Saito/Putz type and we should be fine in the BP….Next stop a big bat 1B/OF…Keep the good work up FW
Hanson-Ace - December 2, 2009
I'm not sure I wanna play the Octavio Dotel game again...
The Keith Lockhart Era - December 2, 2009
+1000000
John Holton - December 2, 2009
+ Infinity
eaheckman10 - December 2, 2009
+∞*∞*∞
Beat that…
nick9314 - December 2, 2009
Cool symbols
but Infinity times Infinity is still Infinity, so it’s equal to mine.
End Mathematical Rant
eaheckman10 - December 2, 2009
lmao. I know. i was jk. Those symbols wer pretty BA
nick9314 - December 2, 2009
Saito sounds expensive...
how did Wag and Putz get along in NY? It’d be hilarious if we found success with their cast offs. Calero, Putz, Duchscherer, Hawkins, Escobar, Lyon, Mota, Mahay, Ohman, among others cause there are a LOT of bullpen arms out there, but I’d be looking for the cheap guys.
Mr. Sanchez - December 2, 2009
I like the low-risk, high reward that Duchscherer would provide.
He’d be lights out if we could keep him out of the doldrums…
The Keith Lockhart Era - December 2, 2009
I’d love to see Duchscherer, but isn’t he more of a starter nowadays?
award6 - December 2, 2009
Not coming off of those operations…
justincredubil02 - December 2, 2009
I’m pretty sure I want them to go after Fernando Rodney
Bmacbandwagon - December 2, 2009
only if he's much cheaper than you'd expect considering...
the number of saves he’s made.
Mr. Sanchez - December 2, 2009
plus, ...
his numbers outside of closing in the 9th aren’t as good leading doubts as to whether he’d be successful in a set up role.
Mr. Sanchez - December 2, 2009
That just baffles me. I am not denying that it happens, but how do people pitch differently based on which light on the scoreboard happens to be lit?
justincredubil02 - December 2, 2009
Because, no matter how much stats want to say otherwise, it’s just different.
cbwilk - December 2, 2009
it primarily has to do with human factors and individual variability. they’re not programmed pitching machines, you know.
fandave - December 2, 2009
so with a 1 or 2 run lead in the 8th inning a guy could be a trainwreck, but in the 9th he is automatic?
I just can’t fathom that.
justincredubil02 - December 2, 2009
as a closer, he wasn't usually in a set up role...
so those aren’t the situations. It’s generally a 6, 7, 8 run lead or deficit, after multiple days off, when closers are used outside of save situations.
Mr. Sanchez - December 2, 2009
"see, he's a man, he's not a machine"...
who knows why, but he does. It’s not like he’s alone in that either, as most closers tend to pitch better in save situations. Gonzo was one who seemed to pitch better with the extra adrenaline, Soriano as well, among others.
Mr. Sanchez - December 2, 2009
Or perhaps it’s because the typical “save situation” is easier than the typical high-leverage outing in a tie ballgame in the 7th, since a save situation comes with at least a 1- and often a 2- or 3-run lead. Also, premium 7th and 8th inning guys often face the heart of the order, since they’re expressly brought in to face those guys rather than the closer, who gets whoever is scheduled to bat in the ninth.
Or it could be because “proven closers” have balls of steel and are superhuman men who breathe fire and brimstone.
Yakker - December 2, 2009
Actually, his numbers as a closer weren't any different
Than his other numbers. His peripherals (K/9, BB/9, K/BB) and even his ERA and WHIP, were pretty close to his career numbers last year. In fact, his ERA, WHIP, H/9, HR/9, K/9, BB/9, and K/BB were also worse last year than his career averages. Yes, he was 37/38 converting saves. However, 7 of those saves were 3 run lead entering the ninth saves, and a whopping 19 of them were 2 run lead entering the 9th saves. Only 9 of his saves (and his one blown save) were 1 run lead entering the 9th saves. He also had two saves where he came on with two out in the bottom of the eighth, both time with two one; once with a three run lead, the other with a two run lead.
Guys, it ain’t mystical, and it certainly isn’t Rodney pitching better in the mystical ninth. It was just a bunch of saves, mostly in relatively easy save situations. Remember, Dan Kolb saved 39 in 2004. That didn’t make him any good.
cavebird - December 3, 2009
Amen Bmacbandwagon we need another closer type arm to add to our pen just in case Wagner needs a game or two off .
Holty_Panthers_Fan - December 2, 2009
I was just about to type precisely that, although with respect to Mr. Sanchez, I hadn’t looked at all his splits
Bmacbandwagon - December 2, 2009
Kieko Calero FTW!
justincredubil02 - December 2, 2009
String Bean Fellow FTW!!!!
Bmacbandwagon - December 2, 2009
He'
Mr. Sanchez - December 2, 2009
reply fail above....
he may be a great option in the 8th, just saying he hasn’t generally performed as well outside of save situations (although as said above, closers pitching in non save situations generally means a blow out and much lower adrenaline), and there are so many options available out there I think others would be less expensive and just as good.
Mr. Sanchez - December 2, 2009
NO MORE F/A RELIEVERS!
Relievers are so sketchy year to year, I’d rather take our chances with the Acostas/Valdezes/Other Younger AAA arms then popping off another 5 million on a reliever
eaheckman10 - December 2, 2009
suggesting Acosta will get you stoned in these parts
Swo12bv - December 2, 2009
The good kind of stoned?
!Vive la Francoeur! - December 2, 2009
Nope
Some of my windows got destroyed by even considering this
eaheckman10 - December 2, 2009
Nothing wrong with more free agent relievers...
…as long as they are cheap types like Calero. Hell, as long as they are Calero. ;)
cavebird - December 3, 2009
Are we sure Calero comes cheap?
and if so, why?
Mr. Sanchez - December 3, 2009
He might not be...
…but I am hoping with all the big names out there, he slips through the cracks. If he isn’t cheap, I am not for signing him. I am just hopeful. If he signs elsewhere for $4 million plus, obviously, it was never possible.
cavebird - December 3, 2009
There’s no such thing as chances with Acosta. It’s pretty much a sure thing he’s gonna suck.
alligatorimpersonator - December 4, 2009
This^
HEYJUDE - December 4, 2009
Lucky 13!
fandave - December 2, 2009
Pretty weird that they have him up there with that jersey when it’s got another guy’s number on it. I mean, McLouth has had that number at every level of his professional career, Wagner’s gonna have to buy him a car or something to get it.
cbwilk - December 2, 2009
This
Unless they talked to Nate already.
Yakker - December 2, 2009
Yeah, now if that happened it’s completely fine. In fact, knowing the Braves, that’s probably what did happen.
cbwilk - December 2, 2009
Ditto; looked strange.
Lizziebeth - December 2, 2009
Or they are planning to trade McClouth.
someguy917 - December 2, 2009
Highly doubt that
SmithnCompany - December 2, 2009
who is McClouth?
Ha, not to be a dick, but it’s McLouth
Scott Coleman - December 2, 2009
I always do that. I guess it comes from typing McCann so much.
someguy917 - December 3, 2009
didnt you hear?
we’re trading McLouth and a PTBNL for Konerko
drumzalicious - December 3, 2009
Go Frank! Go Bobby! Go Billy!
Chief Noc-A-Homa - December 2, 2009
Idea for Wagner
Clinton Portis promised to pay Ifeanyi Ohalete $20,000 to wear #26, then he got the number and never paid him, I think they actually went to court.
TradeAndruw - December 2, 2009
“Got at least 5 good years left in me.”
Smoltz's Beard - December 3, 2009
Like the Signing if wagner can hold up.
As power pitchers age and recover from injuries then need more and more time off and for the reason we need to go out and sign a F. Rodney type guy to serve as our closer when Wagner needs time off. What is the rumor that the ball is flying out of his hands like it hasn’t in years which is great to here.
No doubt Wagner is good signing and a class act but can his arm hold up only time will tell but for 7 million with a vesting opition we can afford that, plus I really believe that Wagner has always wanted to be a Brave his whole career. Remember when he signed with the Mets and he called the Braves just to see how much they were willing to spend.
No question when Wagner is on their is nobody better at being a dominant closer.
Go Braves “Do it for Bobby in 2010”
Holty_Panthers_Fan - December 2, 2009
are you contributing money to our salary cap…
Rodney will sign for a similar contract as Wagner (if not more years)
Swo12bv - December 2, 2009
I don't understand why people keep suggesting Rodney
The guy can’t post an ERA under 4.30 to save his life, he walks too many guys, and he’ll be overpriced. Why not pay major league minimum for that same pitcher, and just pull him from AAA?
FineHamAbounds - December 2, 2009
Keith Law has an article up on ESPN about BWag to Atlanta
but I’m not an insider so i can’t read it. Is anyone an insider who could summarize the article for me? It would be really appreciated
Scott Coleman - December 2, 2009
He doesn't like it
Says the price is too high for the risk, and he either won’t stay healthy, or the Braves will have to keep his workload down to get a full season out of him.
hoboken_wood - December 2, 2009
He does say, however, that if Wagner stays healthy and is fully recovered that it is a great deal for Atlanta.
justincredubil02 - December 2, 2009
gracias amigos
Scott Coleman - December 2, 2009
Not really
Not quite the same. He also said that is the absolute best case, and least likely, scenario.
hoboken_wood - December 2, 2009
LOL
As if Bobby Cox would ever be able to restrain himself enough to keep the workload down on his closer.
Lennox - December 3, 2009
this :(
Gage23 - December 3, 2009
He pretty much agrees with what I have been saying.
:)
justincredubil02 - December 2, 2009
so u admit ur wrong
Swo12bv - December 2, 2009
I'm not so sure about this.
I realize that he is one of the best closers ever, but he’s 38 and probably still isn’t 100% recovered from TJ surgery. I know he did well this year, but that was in limited action. Hopefully this will pan out.
GouldisGold - December 2, 2009
If this wasn't a legit closer we were getting
Then I would be upset, but Wagner is arguably one of the best closers of all-time (especially from the left side). You also got to consider that $7 million for a premium closer is not really that high in today’s baseball world.
SmithnCompany - December 2, 2009
True.
When he is healthy, he is a stud. But let’s hope he can stay healthy. At 38 and coming off TJ surgery, that’s no sure thing.
GouldisGold - December 2, 2009
TJ surgery
is a very successful surgery. In fact, a lot of guys come back from TJ surgery and feel that they can actually throw harder than they did before. I think Wagner will recover fine, especially since he’s got the entire offseason to continue recovering.
alligatorimpersonator - December 4, 2009
Has there been a better lefty closer? Who’d even be in the conversation…Randy Myers?
cbwilk - December 2, 2009
GONZO, FTW!
justincredubil02 - December 2, 2009
I had to look up what ‘FTW’ means yesterday. Now that I know, I’ve come to the conclusion that typing it is like typing ’I’m a giant huge mega-nerd’.
cbwilk - December 3, 2009
Some of us have just come to grips with the fact that we are, indeed, giant huge mega-nerds, and thus use the phrase with impunity.
I AM ABOVE THE LAW! splurt
J-Freak - December 3, 2009
I only learned what it meant (for the win, right?) a few weeks ago…so am I just a semi mega nerd?
justincredubil02 - December 3, 2009
i didn’t know until i read this, and now i feel dumber for it.
10-4 - December 3, 2009
Do we really need to get started on you?
Smoltz's Beard - December 3, 2009
So, are you like, back now?
justincredubil02 - December 3, 2009
Slow day. Testing the waters.
Smoltz's Beard - December 3, 2009
As good, not better. After all, Wagner is 6th in saves...
and should become top 5 within a month. John Franco is right there with him though.
Other lefties: Dave Righetti was solid but not as good. Billy McCool, just for the name? Jesse Orosco wasn’t as dominant, but damn if he didn’t last forever. Mitch Williams had some good seasons but nowhere near Wagner. Wags is almost certainly among the top 5 since saves began, with Ecks, Franco and Rivera.
Mr. Sanchez - December 3, 2009
Forgot about Franco. Yeah, I’d take Wagner ahead of any of those guys.
cbwilk - December 3, 2009
Franco is the career leader in saves for a guy who throws with his left hand…
that said i agree Billy is probably the better pitcher
Swo12bv - December 3, 2009
he was healthy enough to pitch at the end of last year...
and pass his physical, and has until February to rest up and continue rehab/recover/general overall workouts. I don’t think his health will be a question mark, at least at the start.
Mr. Sanchez - December 2, 2009
Wagner has been arguably the second best closer this decade I’d say behind Mariano Rivera which is a given. You have to go all the way back to 2000 when he was with the Astros to see an ERA above 2.73, and it’s the only time in his career his ERA has finished above 3. In short, the guy has been absolutely dominant and the peripherals agree. Obviously his time with the Red Sox was extremely small sample size but he looked very good and though 7M is a decent sum of money, if he pitches up to his level of ability he’s certainly worth it.
Next step for the Braves is getting one of Kiko Calero, Kevin Gregg (if he isn’t going to get closer money), or a guy like Nick Massett in trade, preference being Calero. Then I’d let the market for Lowe and the hitters develops. If we add Calero in addition to Wagner, our bullpen could be downright unfair next year
McCann's the Man - December 2, 2009
Mr. Hoffman and Mr. Nathan would like a word with you …. well, at least you said arguably.
scstrato - December 2, 2009
I don’t think you can really put a case together for Nathan, he only came onto the scene in 03 and he’s been helped by an out of this world strand rate as of late. Definitely top 5 for this decade but his peripherals just don’t match Wagner and the actual results (ie ERA) come out close enough that you have to judge the other stuff in addition. About to take a look at Hoffman
McCann's the Man - December 2, 2009
Hoffman just isn’t on par with Wagner as well, I don’t see how you can really make a logical case for either being better than Wags unless you’re going by who you like more, and that’s just a general you not you specifically. Wagner has been that good
McCann's the Man - December 2, 2009
Wren definitely needs to acquire one more decent arm
And there’s so many plus arms, that I don’t see one costing no more than $3-4 million (tops). If he does that, then the only concern I’d have would be with the offense.
SmithnCompany - December 2, 2009
I think this is a good signing for the Braves. Now, on to 1B and LF.
ChrisK562 - December 2, 2009
Nasty Nate agreed to give up #13 to BWag
According to DOB, BWag got number the number 13 from a badge his grandfather gave him when he worked in the coal mine.
BWag is also a natural righty. He broke his arm twice when he was between ages 6-9 and got tired of not being able to throw. He started throwing with his left arm and it’s stuck ever since.
It also sounds like he’ll be best friends with Chipper. He farms and hunts on his property all the time. If Roachy comes back, we might have a problem getting the guys to the games on time lol.
Sounds like a good deal to me.
Scott Coleman - December 2, 2009
Yes!
Somewhere/place Robby Dibble’s brow is furrowed …
FrankyWren - December 2, 2009
I like it.
Jareth Cutestory - December 2, 2009
I like the signing
But: why does everyone assume he gets the closer’s role? Shouldn’t it be a battle between him and the Aussie? Doesn’t he deserve a shot at closing?
GoBravesNY - December 2, 2009
Everyone assumes that he’s the closer because its Billy F’N Wagner. I understand what you’re saying…..but its Billy Wagner.
bravesfan91 - December 2, 2009
Moylan’s insane ability to produce groundouts as well as get a good number of K’s makes him an ideal 7th/8th inning guy where you can bring him in whenever a situation gets too close for comfort and requires a quick out. But as was said below me, it’s Billy Wagner if he’s healthy there’s really no one else I’d take over him that is available to us
McCann's the Man - December 2, 2009
7 million
Pretty much makes him the closer
UltimaParadox - December 3, 2009
um
Moylan vs Lefties
.309/.429/.415/.843
yea . . . .
about him closing games . . . . and in the NL East? No thank you
drumzalicious - December 3, 2009
Am I
the only one that prefers Calero and Saito over Rodney?
drumzalicious - December 3, 2009
nope, Calero is easily my favorite free agent out there right now followed by Mike Cameron if he comes on a 1 year commitment. Saito i’m not as sure about but I’d take him over Rodney anyday
McCann's the Man - December 3, 2009
Ill even take Cameron on a two year deal (but no more)
Id prefer a one year with a mutual option
Swo12bv - December 3, 2009
not even close
Mr. Sanchez - December 3, 2009
Nope.
I hope most people here would prefer either of those guys and don’t want us going anywhere near Fernando Rodney. I think Calero is the better target, however. I haven’t heard anything, but I would think someone would sign Saito to close.
cavebird - December 3, 2009
Saito set up last year i think… and i dont think he is considered a closer any more
Swo12bv - December 3, 2009
I stand corrected.
That didn’t take long.
cavebird - December 3, 2009
Nah.
I’d actually rank those three in that order- Calero is far and away the best option, Saito is behind him with some question marks, and Rodney is dead last with crappy numbers.
J-Freak - December 3, 2009
I always think it’s so funny when people get fixated on acquiring a guy after he’s had a career year. Calero has had some very nice years in his career, but he missed most of 2008 then had to sign a minor league deal and earn a roster spot in 2009. He won a job and was amazing, but he’s going to be 35 next season coming off a year where he was much much better than he ever had been. Does anyone really think he’s going to repeat this kind of success?
cbwilk - December 3, 2009
Just sayin’. I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed next year. Albeit for no good reason other than maybe that we should have made a trade when a player was at the peak of his value with little chance of returning to the previous year’s level of dominance.
sgrapevine - December 3, 2009
You missed some lineouts there. Like how Vazquez is only 33 next season. Or how he had 11 quality years as a starter before we got him. Or how he consistently pitched over 200 innings in most of the years before we got him or how he was usually near the top of strikeouts in his league.
Comparing him to Calero just doesn’t work. In any sense.
cbwilk - December 3, 2009
Why, because Vasquez has more seasons at a lower success rate than last year? That would seem more significant to me. Calero probably won’t get 200IP any time soon, you’re right, but outside of ‘08 he’s had a pretty decent workload as a reliever.
And, yeah. 33. That’s… better math.
Fuck it, I was just feeling salty anyway when I posted that and took it out on our buddy Javy (‘10 NL Cy Young hopefully… I’d love to be wrong).
sgrapevine - December 3, 2009
My point was just that Javy had been around doing good if unspectacular work for a lot longer than Calero, is younger, and doesn’t have the injury history. Aside from the fact that they both played a bit over their heads last year (which for Javy is kind of arguable) there isn’t much similar between them. Particularly since starters tend to flame out less frequently than relievers.
cbwilk - December 3, 2009
Javy
I think Javy will be great again next year. He has always had ace potential and outstanding stuff, and I think last year, playing for Bobby, he finally just put it all together.
alligatorimpersonator - December 4, 2009
I am not looking for Calero of 2009...
…I just want Calero at his career average numbers. They are phenomenal.
cavebird - December 3, 2009
This
Depending on his price tag ($2Mish), he would be a good add.
Yakker - December 3, 2009
Yeah, I’d take an average Calero season too, but first I want some hitters to get added before any more money goes toward the pen.
cbwilk - December 3, 2009
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