Talking Chop

if only I had the bear falling from the tree “on snap” pic. I’d post it…honest!

Absurd to say Lowe has any value to any other team

He pitched in LA, in Dodger stadium, that is the cause of his “good” years, just look at his home/road splits for those years.

Was any other manager apart from Wren surprised that he pitched like his LA road stats for the whole year?

He is now 39 and will regress even more and is dued 15 mil a year. He is Kawakami, just a little luckier last year.

That market for a no 5 making 15 mil a year is not big

That is why all is quiet on the trade front

The Braves will need to eat a contract like Bradley’s or Pierre’s and then pay a prospect to get rid of Lowe.

Paying 25 mil over the 3 years on Lowe’s contract will make it a 3yr 20 mil contract for suitors… that will still be overpaying for Lowe, but that would be the only thing that makes Lowe tradable

And you guys are wondering why people are not knocking down the doors

The guy had a 4.6 ERA in a pitcher's park

Some people thinks he is a no 2

I would say 4.6 ERA is more like a No 5a/5b

He might make the team type

If you get offered a bag of balls for Lowe, Wren should jump at it

No one is wondering why people aren’t knocking down the doors but you’re just wrong

then say why it is wrong

Cincinati is more likely to trade their SP prior to Lowe getting traded

They are cheaper and younger, their stats are skewered by a hitter’s park, while Lowe is skewered by a pitcher’s park

Angels blog on Lowe

Checked out the Angel’s blog. Some of them would not even part with G Mathews Jnr for Lowe. a ERA+ 88 pitcher is a 5th starter

http://www.halosheaven.com/2009/11/19/1164283/derek-lowe-for-gary-matthews-jr
Should our expectations be Lowe? On the surface, this deal looks fairly reasonable. Lowe’s 15 wins could replace Lackey’s 11 wins. But his production isn’t nearly as impressive as Lackey and the Angels would be on the hook for an additional 25 million. Its not a bad idea, but the Angels already have a pretty solid pitching lineup. The Angel’s 5th spot could be filled by Matt Palmer, Sean O’Sullivan, or a prospect who might be ready to shine. Moving Matthews isn’t a bad idea, but a move for Lowe should only be made if the Angels are planning on packing Lowe in a bigger trade.

I say No to Lowe.

RIP Nick Adenhart 4/9/09

I blog about the Angels at The Diamond Aces
by Jay Cal on Nov 19, 2009 8:21 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
.
Agree… Lowe is turning 37 and had an ERA+ of 88 last year and he is signed for three more years at about $45 million. Pitchers with ERA+ numbers in the high 80’s are number 5 starters at best, not number 2’s. He isn’t an answer to any question we have with regard to our pitching staff.

He also is rumored to have an alcohol problem (or had?) and left his wife for a TV newswoman/sports reporter. He’s overpaid, no longer an above average starter, is north of 35 and seemingly a crappy person. What’s to like here? Seriously? I despise GMJ, but his contract might actually be more sensible than Lowe’s going forward. And that’s saying something.

You are a troll and I shouldn't feed you, but...

…here goes anyway.

Lowe’s FIP was a much more reasonable 4.06 last year, he was hurt by an absurdly high BABIP against of .333, which was a product of bad luck and poor infield defense by the Braves. It wasn’t a great year for him, but he is still a solid pitcher. He still posted the third best ground ball rate in the national league. Apparently, your theory is look only at last year, ignore the numbers behind the numbers, repeat idiotic posts from the Angels message board (like an Angels offer of Matthews for Lowe would receive any response but hanging up the phone by the Braves). Saying that Matthews’s contract is more reasonable than Lowe’s is patently absurd.

cavebird - December 17, 2009 reply

This

And anyone who thinks that the Angels wouldn’t trade GMJ for Lowe straight up is an idiot and their opinions don’t carry any weight.

buzzdeadwax - December 17, 2009 reply

Haha...$6.7 million will be overpaying.

Except he was a $12 million player last year. Oops.

Get off your ass and do something,

Frank WHEN?

I’m tired of seeing all these big signings and the Braves aren’t even rumored in anything.

FW says we’re gonna hit the FA market…who the hell are we gonna get? Nady, Byrd, LaRoche, etc. etc. None of them have the big bat we’re looking for.

The Big Bat that we are looking for does not exist on the FA market.

Besides, other than Cameron (who also is not the Big Bat we are looking for) and Lackey, what other big signings have there been?

I have no problem with Wren not making a move for what has amounted to a little over a week’s time.

If healthy...

Glaus or Delgado are just that bat.

Those are risk/reward types though. I don’t think that is what anyone is referring to. The “Big Bat” that we are supposedly looking for is a sure-thing, like a A-Gon or Fielder, at least, according to those who demand we get one.

are these the same people...

who said Flowers for Vasquez was foolish?

Some, but not exclusively…most people rosterbating around here (that I have seen lately) are advocating for a big trade to bring in one of those dominant hitters.

Personally, I would be thrilled with Glaus…not so much Delgado, as his age and injuries concern me more than Glaus does.

I think that we should, if we sign someone like that, bring in another person who is a sure thing – a Swisher type, if you will – just in case the risk/reward player doesn’t pan out.

true, although Swisher is expensive

but would be insurance for next year as well in case Freeman needs a little more time and we don’t want a second year of whatever we get at 1B. I’m not opposed to Swisher, but his contract is more than I’d like to take back. I’d almost rather Rivera, because while he has less position versatility, his contract would be very easily moved if we got an abundance of OFs.

What if it is a simple player swap for Lowe? We take all of Swisher’s contract and the Yanks take all of Lowe’s. That would still free up some money (I am not sure how much Swisher is getting paid in 2010) on top of the money we already have available. That would still be a formidable amount of money to play with in the offseason.

6.75 this year, 9 next, 10.25 in 2012 or 1m buyout

So $16.75m for two years, or $26m for 3.

$15.75 mil

+1 for the buyout, so $16.75 for 2

And I am an idiot. Sorry

it's ok...

and I think Acie has a chance, for MVP of the NBDL. Maybe the Spanish or Adriatic League.

Haha he’ll always be the MVP of my heart. Actually that’s not true. Teague has already replaced him

We had such high hopes for Acie. Although, did you see Teague dunk a couple nights ago?

With that steal? That was beautiful

Teague looks good...

when he plays.

He’s starting to get some legit playing time lately

The Hawks have a very strong team and Teague is going to be a quality starter in a few years.

fandave - December 16, 2009 reply

Absolutely

May never be elite, but definitely a good point guard.

true

I think he’s gonna be a really good 25-30 min player. He’s in the perfect situation right now behind Bibby.
But he’ll definitely be a solid starter down the road a few years

cirela20 - December 16, 2009 reply

LOL.

He might be down there soon enough. Larry Brown and young players is a bad combo. Throw in the fact that Law isn’t a very good young player (any more), and he might not get any NBA minutes all season.

So, theoretically, a 1 for 1 swap would free up $9M this year (on top of the 7-ish already available) for a total of $16M to still go after someone…Sounds like a great deal for us, especially considering the offensive value that Swisher has.

It's still significant money in 2010...

and possibly 2011 too. This year, yes. Next year, it becomes inhibitive. If the offer is 1 for 1, Lowe for Swisher, or Lowe for Rivera, the price tag becomes an issue. Rivera—4.25, then 5.25, for a total of $9.5 for the next two years and much more flexibility when you add the reasonable contracts of Diaz and McLouth as well as Heyward and Schafer whenever they’re ready. Swisher is at least $7.25 more ($2.5 this year, near 4 next year, plus the $1m buyout), if not over $15m extra.

Not saying Swisher or Rivera are available straight up for Lowe, but comparatively, I think Rivera’s salary trumps Swisher’s versatility.

His salary, sure, but what about his skill set?

Both are capable 5-6-7 hitters...

but not exactly a 4 hitter. For the price, especially after 2010, I’ll take Rivera.

To be honest, Swisher seems like a much more realistic return than Rivera. I guess it depends on if the Angels would rather go for Beltre (to replace Wood) or Bay/Holliday (to replace Rivera).

second this...

idk if he could bat cleanup but there could be a potentially strong switch hitting duo in the middle of the lineup between him and Chipper.

cirela20 - December 16, 2009 reply

damnit. V-A-Z-Q-U-E-Z.

how do people still not know how to spell the fuckin ace of our staffs name

Hcgadawgs - December 16, 2009 reply

‘Cause there are multiple ways of spelling it. I know he uses a “Z”, but come on, it is like arguing that someone spells “J-O-N-A-T-H-O-N” and someone else says “J-O-N-O-T-H-A-N”. In the grand scheme of things, it isn’t that important. It’s not like they are saying “Shaffer” or something like that.

Also, in Spanish, many times the “Z” and the “S” are interchangeable.

well i figured seeing the back of his jersey 20 times a start would help people catch on…

yeah the schafer one’s really get to me too…and the mclouth ones..

how is anyone supposed to believe your argument is valid if you can’t even spell the persons name your reffering to…

Hcgadawgs - December 16, 2009 reply

Oh, don’t get me wrong. I agree with what you are saying, but I can just understand and accept the Vaz one more than the others. It just doesn’t bother me that much.

Now, Logan’s, Nate’s and LaRoche are all fairly annoying to me.

ha, yeah i know..i guess i gotta tolerate these…

but the day someone misspells Jason Heyward….i might just punch through my screen

Hcgadawgs - December 16, 2009 reply

A Haymaker for the Heymaker?

Maybe it’s Shafther.

Kobe:The Legend - December 16, 2009 reply

In Spanish Vazquez is with Z all the time believe me

My friend’s last name disagrees with you. It is spelled Vasquez.

justincredubil02 - December 17, 2009 reply

Or Shaver. Or Jurgyens.

I KNOW DUDE!! It blows my mind.

I would suggest those people haven't exactly been proven wrong yet.

Vazquez was great, sure, but what did it get us? 86 wins, and 7 games out.

I was trying to think of a clever rhyme with Santa Claus and Glaus, but they all sucked. Anyways, I like the Glaus opinion.

bwellnjonesco - December 16, 2009 reply

plus, who thought Russell Branyan was a big bat...

when Seattle signed him?

Well the guy can hit the ball to the moon… if and when he makes contact.

YESSS. Frank "When" i love it

you should have expected this

once Wren came out and said they were going to be tight lipped about everything this offseason you should have known. I’m pretty sure as with all deals this season we will wake up one morning and see the headline. No one saw Cameron or Lackey signing with the Red Sox.

Cliff Lee traded to the Mariners??

seriously.

all the bigger moves havent even been whispered before they happened

drumzalicious - December 16, 2009 reply

Hard to make big signings...

When you don’t have any money to spend.

FreeBarryBonds - December 16, 2009 reply

Meh

Not thrilled about Swisher in a Braves uniform. Trade Lowe for mid level prospects and free up cap. Then make a splash with a trade out of no where….

Not really that simple.

It’d be much easier to just trade Lowe for Pujoles.

Quien es Pujoles?

Alberto Pujoles, is Albert Pujols secret identity.

Good point…can’t believe I didn’t think of that!

That’s cuz you aren’t very smart. Personally, I would just trade him for Ted Williams. He’s awesome.

buzzdeadwax - December 16, 2009 reply

You trade him for a dead Ted Williams. He must be f*cking awesome if he can hit over 0.400 while dead.

Is he still frozen out in Arizona?

If we could wake him up, hell sign him.

cavebird - December 16, 2009 reply

Didn’t something scandalous happen to his head?

Larry Johnson says in the book “Frozen: My Journey Into the World of Cryonics, Deception and Death” that he watched an Alcor official swing a monkey wrench at Williams’ frozen severed head to try to remove a tuna can stuck to it. The first swing accidentally struck the head, Johnson contends, and the second knocked the tuna can loose.

I didn’t catch how the tuna cans got stuck to his head, whatever.

FreeBarryBonds?

why the hell would anyone want that asshole back in baseball?

FreeBarryBonds - December 16, 2009 reply

Cause he is the greatest player of all time…

Greg Maddux.

someguy917 - December 16, 2009 reply

Cause he is the greatest ~~player~~ cheater of all time…

fixed

this.

Scott Coleman - December 16, 2009 via mobile reply

Yes, certainly.

Him and 90% of modern ballplayers, hitters and pitchers. Who gives a fuck? Get over it.

Yeah, okay.

Scott Coleman - December 16, 2009 via mobile reply

I would have been great too, if my morals allowed me to shoot up steroids and lie about it.

Let's not be mistaken...

Bonds was likely a Hall of Famer without the juice. Not HR king, but certainly a possible Hall. Ironic isn’t it, that he almost lost his chance for the hall of fame because he wanted the bigger stats.

Oh, no doubt. He was a truly talented player. Greatest of all time? Hardly.

That's exactly why you weren't.

Because thousands of ballplayers have.

If Griffey Jr. would have done steriods, he would have been better than Bonds during the “later” years…

bwellnjonesco - December 16, 2009 reply

Griffey is better than Bonds anyway.

Fact

Double Fact

Mark Lempke - December 16, 2009 reply

Greatest hitter, certainly.

Free Tibet? I’ll take it!

BraveSaluki - December 16, 2009 reply

That’s right China. All the tea…

+1

huh?

+1

Also why wouldn’t you want Swisher in a Braves uniform?

I’d so much rather have Swisher than some prospects.

If the Braves could trade Lowe and all of his salary for Nick Swisher, we have a lot of lucky stars to be thanking. This should not be looked at as a negative thing at all!

That would be

if we get Rivera …….but rather have swisher for flexiblity due to the lack of other options

What trade??

Unless it is like Cabera type than who else?? A Gonzo is most unlikely and it seems more and more that we will have settle for the scrubs left on FA for a 1B/LF till we unload Lowe’s contract

Yeah. I'd take Nick Swisher.

He’s a solid left fielder. Average glove, pretty good bat. Big upgrade given what we’ve run out in the last few years.

Perrinbar - December 16, 2009 reply

This

Oh, and his wife is hot. Someone post the pics, please!

buzzdeadwax - December 16, 2009 reply

I believe he’s dating someone from Gossip Girl or the OC or something. Not married, though.

Wasn't he married to a ridiculously hot woman in the past?

I thought we had this discussion last year? Wish I could look this up, but I’m afraid of upsetting the Firewall.

buzzdeadwax - December 16, 2009 reply

I think he dated the girl from a DMB cover. She was pretty smokin, but cross-eyed, IIRC.

Yakker - December 17, 2009 reply

Wish granted.

1 good post in 30...

not bad for you.

Mr. Sanchez - December 18, 2009 reply

who’s up for a photoshop contest on the Swisher pic? I bet we’d have some masterpieces.

I would win, cause it would be so awesome you wouldn’t be able to not say I won.

bwellnjonesco - December 16, 2009 reply

Swisher

How’s this sound? Lowe for Nady and resign La Roache!

jerryr - December 16, 2009 reply

I wish

we could trade DLowe for a free agent!

shhhhh

lmao!

Swisher >>> Nady

yessir

Also more expensive...

much more expensive.

But that is like complainging that Javier Vazquez is more expensive than JoJo Reyes.

Disagree...

at least if Nady is healthy. But the health risk is the reason for the lower price. I think a better comparison would be Vasquez and AJ Burnett. One has been much more consistent without the multiple DL stints, but when their both healthy, it’s a wash.

Swisher is still better without the injury risk. Not by a lot but he’s definitely still better. He has never played in more than 138 games. That’s more than a health risk. It’s like you can depend on him missing at least 30 games while Swish has consistently played in 150+ over the last four years

No.

Swisher’s definitely the better hitter regardleses of health.

Best years...

Nady OPS+ of 127
Swisher 129
Rivera 126

When healthy, there isn’t too much difference, except Swisher has a lower BA. All 3 are 25 or so HR, .850 or so OPS if healthy. Swisher is most likely to be healthy between the 3 in the past.

Mr. Sanchez - December 18, 2009 reply

Career slugging for all 3...

Rivera—.470
Swisher—.460
Nady—.458

Swisher is 20-25 points higher in career OBP, but he also comes with a much bigger price tag after 2010. The difference IF HEALTHY isn’t worth the price. The question is health, as Swisher has gone over 150 games each of the last four years, with Rivera and Nady combined having just one season over 140.

Mr. Sanchez - December 18, 2009 reply

Swisher would be a better return than Rivera for sure. I’m ready for the Braves to make a move to get a hitter too… and not Garret Anderson 2.0.

redwards95 - December 16, 2009 reply

Options

How’s this sound? Lowe for Nady and resign La Roache!

jerryr - December 16, 2009 reply

About the same as the first time you said it.

lol

hahaha

Sounds impossible.

Dutch Braves Fan - December 16, 2009 reply

I guess the Yankees are dumb enough to do it.

Nigerian Buy-Back

the Yankees being a rich uncle who is benevolently buying back the car which was too expensive that we (the Braves) got last year

Sure, the Yankees never had Lowe to begin with, but any and every opportunity I can get to drop the Nigerian Buy-Back is always a good reference.

royhobbs - December 16, 2009 reply

BOTTOM LINE......

Swisher is a better return than anything else available so unless we get prospect and salary relief to go for a Bay/holliday than this should be deal that should be vetted to make it happen….otherwise we are looking nady/glaus/rivera types to fill in the void that we have at 1B/LF as stop gaps

I'm cool with Swisher.

He can hit homers and take a walk, as stated above, and his defense isn’t the best, but it’s above average. That’s the minimum I’d accept in an OF should we trade for one.

Repost

Repost How’s this sound? Lowe for Nady and resign La Roache!
I resaid this, because I believe that it is a very viable option and makes sense. Nady is not overly priced and trading Lowe would give more money to sign LaRoache, even if the Braves have to eat a portion of Lowes salary. And I really was curious to what others thought of the idea. So yea, I reposted the comment but I really would like to see a few replies to the idea.

jerryr - December 16, 2009 reply

Nady is a free agent…

Careful, I think this might be an attempt to get people to join some sort of cult.

One of us… one of us…

Chief Noc-A-Homa - December 16, 2009 reply

gooble gobble, gooble gobble

He’ll get it eventually.

Nady

Is a FA and LaRoache is asking for a 3 yr deal worth 30+.. So he’ probably out of the running unless he reduces his price. We’d be better off signing Glaus to a incentive based contract.

How about we bring back the epic fail of Brain Jordan and Raul Mondesi… hahaha

Please don’t bring up those signings…what a disaster.

I know i feel ya

They were no Mark Redman.

The most awesome baseball card I ever had...

Was a Raul Mondesi, I got it like a year or two before the Braves nabbed him. I was so young and excited that the player on my favorite baseball card was now on my favorite team. The euphoria! Then I actually got to see him play…

Mark Lempke - December 16, 2009 reply

You should have collected Garbage Pail Kids instead...

Well, maybe you did.

Sounds like 3 strikes and you’re out.

10-4 - December 16, 2009 reply

Hello, McFly?

Sure...

If by makes sense you mean makes no sense at all.

Lowe for Swisher > Lowe for Rivera

Swisher a switch-hitter with power and would be great in LF.

Jay212033 - December 16, 2009 reply

’Nuff said.

PLUS

Siwsher can play 1B

Yes but

I’d rather sign Nady to play 1B since he’s had TJ x 2 and play Swisher in LF.

Jay212033 - December 16, 2009 reply

And he'd also cost as much next year alone...

as Rivera would for both years. Under $10 vs. over $15.

Uh, no.

Swisher makes $6.75 MM next year.

meant 2011 as next year

Still not accurate, 9.5 > 9.

add in the buyout, so 10>9.5

Basically, you are looking at a straight $9.5 for two years of Rivera, or 2 years of Swisher at $16.75m (or 3 years of Swisher at $26m).

Why would I add in the buyout? Why would it be added solely to the 2011 salary instead of the length of the deal, or, more likely, the 2012 payroll which is when it would be exercised?

Swisher costing more also means that we’re less likely to have to eat some of Lowe’s contract to make the deal.

IF we get Rivera but have to eat $2-3 MM a year, then who would cost more?

See above for Swisher,...

You are spending a minimum of $7m more for Swisher over two years.

I was about to say…Swisher could be the 1B the Braves are looking for while they wait for Freeman.

John Holton - December 16, 2009 reply

Plus, it'd be great to have a bunch of these in the outfield...

by far

cirela20 - December 16, 2009 reply

DOB hoping the rich uncle bails us out

is not making me feel any better about our situation.

fandave - December 16, 2009 reply

Swishers the man

he would bolster the pen too and I imagine he could liven up the clubhouse. Dont ask me why

SayHeyWerd - December 16, 2009 reply

He’s kinda a goofball. I dig that.

I hate the offseason.

for a while there, I didn't understand...

but slowly and surely, I’m getting it.

Would rather have Rivera than Swisher, both from a production and $ standpoint. He’s obviously been talked about a lot now while waiting for a move to get made, but he really was a very good player last year once he got consistent playing time. Swisher seemed very streaky last year.

Sir Stealth - December 16, 2009 reply

OPS by month (just because it’s quick and easy):

April: 1.144
May: .586
June: .885
July: .777
August: .878
September: .948

hmmm…I can see where one could argue that he is consistant, and I can also see where one could argue that he is streaky…damn it all.

I don’t really see how one could argue that he’s streaky based on those number.

well, he had 3 months of .800 OPS, 1 of .700 and 1 of over 1.000 and one of .500

His July and May were down months (especially May) and his April was high…like I said I can see how both arguments could be made.

He wasn’t VERY streaky, but there is some degree of streakiness.

He also wasn’t very consistant, but there is a degree of consistency.

More consistent than streaky

3 months of inconsistancy vs 3 months of consistancy.

Remember, putting up better than normal numbers is considered streaky too.

Alright you win there but look at his career splits:

April/March: .909
May: .780
June: .804
July: .775
August: .810
September/October: .831

So you could say he is consistently inconsistent.

interesting…

Those numbers are actually exceptionally consistent.

Statistics would imply that he’s between 780 and 860 95% of the time.

This looks like a good deal. He’s a switch-hitter, takes a lot of walks, has good power (29 HR last season), and can play all three OF positions as well as 1B. Maybe not everyone’s idea of who they’d like to get for Lowe, but someone who can help.

John Holton - December 16, 2009 reply

As a Yank

Why would the Yankee do it? If we want a hope and reclamation project there are plenty of guys like that still on the market. This trade would leave us with an outfield of Gardner/Granderson/Cabrera- that’s almost no power from the corner spots.

I do expect Lowe to rebound, so I’d be willing to trade for him if I were Cashman. But I’d give you Melky for Lowe, or if it’s got to be Swisher I want a hitting prospect back (Jason Heyward? kidding… sort of).

You’re not getting salary relief and a hitter with a 125 OPS+.

jscape2000 - December 17, 2009 reply

Because what are y'all gonna do with Swisher?...

is he gonna be DH? LF? I didn’t think he was expected to be little more than expensive bench piece.

As for Lowe, CC Sabathia is a clear #1, but he’s had a lot of innings on that arm going back to when the Brewers worked the hell out of him. He looks like he can stay strong, but with that many innings the last 24 months, who knows. Petite was great last year, but the age is starting to get up there and while possessing great stuff. AJ Burnett is always suspect to get injured or underperform. He’s got over 450 innings the last two years counting playoffs, and considering his career before then you have to wonder if he can give another 200+ this year. Hughes has talent, but both he and Joba have been much better as relievers than starters. Combine that with Boston able to go Beckett—Lester—Lackey—Bucholz—Matsuzaka, with Wakefield thrown in there if they move Bucholz. Would you not want an imporved 4 and 5 starters to match? Are you certain the front 3 can hold up again this year?

Personally, I think the Yankees could use Lowe. He has pitched on a big stage, in big cities before, and pitched well. He is a groundball guy which can help with that launching pad. He’s a workhorse who at worst eases pressure on the bullpen and at best can be a front line starter should Petite, Burnett, or Sabathia struggle.

Checking numbers...

adding in post season starts, Sabathia has logged near 780 innings over the last 3 seasons. He’s gone over 250 in each one. That’s a LOT of innings. Add Burnett over 450 with his injury past prior to 2008, and Petite’s increasing age, and I think another workhorse with front end of the staff potential would definitely be something the Yankees would want.

The Yankees could want Lowe...

…but jscape2000 is right—-they shouldn’t want to deal Swisher on the cheap; he is a better player than the facial numbers suggest. Hell, Melky’s cheap; I’d do Lowe for Melky, sign a 1B and let Melky be the guy who gets pushed to the bench when Heyward is ready, whether that be at the start of the season or later.

cavebird - December 17, 2009 reply

I'd do Lowe for Melky Cabrera as well

could start him in CF or RF. But the Yankees are claiming to want to cut payroll, and Swisher is a big salary in 2011 and perhaps 2012. He’d be a nice salary to shed, if they felt they could find another power bat for the corner OF to do better. It’s not like he’ll play 1st with Tex, and they are said to be after Damon or Nick Johnson, which would put him further down the depth chart. Add Granderson in CF, and I just don’t get the feeling Swisher is a big part of their future plans, with a sizeable salary coming up too.

To be honest, I could understand it with his versatility and the desire to dump Lowe’s deal, but I’d rather get Cabrera, among others, than Swisher because of his contract beyond 2010.

Swisher was an expensive reserve when Nady was on the team, but Nady got hurt and his now a FA.
Swisher is the starting RF, and other than Melky, the Yanks don’t have another outfielder with a RF arm.

As for salary: Swisher ’10 $6.75M, ’11 $9M, ’12 $10.25M option
Lowe ’10 $15M, ’11 $15M, ’12 $15M

Swisher will always be cheaper and younger than Lowe.

The Red Sox were 8 games worse than the Yanks in 2009. Adding Lester and Dice-K back to their rotation makes it close, but having Arod and Posada playing a full season will help the Yanks. The Red Sox rotation has as many question marks as the Yanks (a lot).

jscape2000 - December 17, 2009 reply

Come on now...

You’ve been starting Damon for years. Clearly OF arms aren’t important to the Stanks.

Because he's a solid starter and probably will be going forward.

If nothing else, it gives them a guy to replace Pettite’s slot as the smart vet who steps it up in the postseason and stabilizes the clubhouse. CC and Burnett are both young for that kind of role.

Randy Winn is a interested player that we could sign. He would be signed for a 1 yr deal like GA this year and he could platoon with Diaz in Left. He would provide better D then GA also. He’s a switch hitter but he would just hit RH’ers and his career agaisnt RH’ers from the left side of the plate is .289/.348/.417. Of course this isn’t our 1st or 2nd option or even third but i was just thinking of all the options we could do.

Gosh, if Randy Winn is our acquisition, we may as well just quit.

LOL

Winn is an okay...

..fourth/fifth OF option is he is cheap because his defense is good. That’s about it. I wouldn’t want him on the strong side of a platoon or as a starter.

cavebird - December 16, 2009 reply

Yeah. I wouldn’t mind having him on the bench…so long as that is where he stays most of the time.

If he's cheap...

like say Abreu/FUGA were when no one wanted them, I’d love a cheap Winn. He’s a solid player who could work well with Diaz and McLouth to fill in around Heyward after June, and maybe lead off occassionally.

The way i was looking at it was that him and Diaz togther would be better then Diaz and Anderson.

No.

Anyone is better than FUGA.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Jeff Francoeur!

What a guy

If OBP isn’t real, Santa certainly isn’t!

But I saw him on the scoreboard once!

What a douche.

Can’t you see that they are laughing AT you, Jeff?

What a dork.

GouldisGold - December 16, 2009 reply

Would I get banned if I photoshopped a big ole dildo on that photo?

Cause I really want to… :(

Oops! How could I forget?

They would be better then him and FUGA was hands down.

Also i am definitely not saying i want this or this is going to happen im just looking at all the options.

Compare their OPS:

Last year:
Winn – .671
FUGA – .705

Career:
Winn – .762
FUGA – .790

I’ll give you that Winn does have a little speed, and is better fielding than FUGA. Of course, you could put David Hasselhoff in LF and he’d be a better fielder than FUGA.

I don't know....

Do you think this would work for LF?

I was going to post this EXACT picture! Well-done!

LOL. He could train the puppies to fetch the ball, so he can throw it to the cut-off man.

Guarantee:

Where ever those puppies are, no matter however old they are or who they belonged to, they still cry and wet themselves whenever they smell anything sweaty and are deathly afraid of pigs in a blanket.

HAHAHAHAHHA!

What about Schnitziel?

They urinate every time they hear the Baywatch theme or anything German.

LOL

Lizziebeth - December 16, 2009 reply

who ordered the Fruit Salad?

The OPS is close.

Which is sad on Winn’s part, but the defense makes Winn clearly better. Winn wouldn’t be a bad fourth OF, but I wouldn’t want him starting.

cavebird - December 17, 2009 reply

For half a year until the Unstoppable Force is ready though?...

Half the year…
McLouth
Prado
Chipper
1B
Escobar/McCann
McCann/Esco (depending on righty/lefty)
Diaz
Winn

And then around June slide in Heyward, and Winn can spell Diaz and McLouth some. He wouldn’t be my first choice, but say we sign Glaus and Garko or Nady, I wouldn’t mind adding Winn too. I think you could easily get some combination of 3 from those 4 for less than Lowe’s deal once his salary is dumped. If a major league player comes back for Lowe, remove the OF, 1B, or 1B/OF from the mix.

I like Nick Swisher.

I would make that deal. He has good power and takes plenty of walks, and can play first base.

But if the Angels are desperate enough, maybe Lowe for Juan Rivera and Caesar Izturis?

GouldisGold - December 16, 2009 reply

I want T-Flow back!!!

For what position and for who?

1B? LF?

if we had kept him. But I like Vasquez, unless nick is saying we should have included Clint Sammons instead. Maybe Sammons and Jesus Sucre to make up for the bat.

1B. And yeah, I'd rather have Vazquez... I guess...

Well, If we sign Javy to an extension, i wont regret that trade. But if he walks after this year, meh, idk, i think im gonna miss T-Flow.

If he has a strong year and walks...

would he not be at least a Class B, perhaps Class A?

I think they only count...

…the past two years in making the evaluation. If he is even decent, he’s probably Class A.

cavebird - December 16, 2009 reply

I miss him. He looks pretty ba in this picture

He is pretty BA. Love the guy but I’m not crying since the Braves got Vazquez and he’ll actually get a good shot to play in Chicago.

Yeah I really hope he does well for them but for what we got from Vaz last year I think the deal will end up being a wash. Did you ever get to talk to him? What was he like?

If we extend Vaz, that deal will be a win for us. Not that it was a loss for the Sox by any means though. Unless, Flowers can’t develop some sort of defensive skill.

And once Lowe is moved...

we might save a $1-2m more in salary this year by extending Vasquez for 3-4 years.

Yeah, I’ve talked to him a lot. Saw him the last few years in several places and then again this year a few times. Got to hear it directly from him that he was going up to Chicago. He’s a great guy, he’s very down to earth and willing to work hard.
One time this year we were talking and he told me how he doesn’t go out during the year, both so he can get his rest and so he doesn’t get in trouble. He’s like “I can screw around all offseason, right now it’s time to play and I want to sleep.” Gotta love that attitude.

would he have moved well enough to justify his bat in LF?

No, he could not have played LF.

Seriously.

What a pimp.

He kinda has Javy's eyes

Swisher

Seems we could do better, even from within, yes even
Brandon Jones until something better comes up. trades
occur in spring training and even during the season.

Swisher is slow afoot, barely adequate in the field,
strikes out too much for a 4, and when hitting
full-time averages in the .240’s. I hope FW is patient
about this one.

sealift67 - December 16, 2009 reply

Do yourself a favor and go look at his other stats (OBP, SLG, etc.) before one of the other guys screams at you for putting his BA on your post.

He’s a definite upgrade over FUGA no matter how you look at it. And he can play 1st.

BA ftw!

damn...

I was too late to save you, young sealifta!

haha

hahaha…you are going to start getting +s for these now.

+1 for this one, and +5 for the others so far.

I gotta catch up in the tally

Does Ryan Howard strike out too much for a 4? What about Adam Dunn?

A Christmas Medley by Frank When

I have a gift for you
BA – RUMP-A-BUMP-BUM

He wears number 32
BA – RUMP-A-BUMP-BUM

Just send me a prospect or two
BA – RUMP-A-BUMP-BUM

I’ll throw a bucket of balls in too!
BA – RUMP-A-BUMP-BUM
RUMP-A-BUMP-BUMP
RUMP-A-BUMP-BUM!

I prefer it to the tune of Jane Fonda by Mickey Avalon. I’ve heard their personalities compare favorably

All that hate the Idea of Swisher in a Braves uniform, say I.

Idk, I think the Braves have enough 6th place hitters. IMO, Its a legit cleanup hitter or bust.

I’d rather a mediocre cleanup hitter than a bust…mediocre is still an upgrade over our current situation.

The problem with that logic is Bobby Cox. We could sign Jason Bay and reup FUGA and Bobby would probably still hit FUGA in the cleanup spot.

LaRoche should have been hitting cleanup ever since he put the big A on his chest last year.

Regardless, the cleanup spot for Atlanta provided 28 home runs and 114 RBI for the season. Swisher could probably match that and move BMac further down the lineup.

You're definitely right.

Bay would CLEARLY hit cleanup over Anderson.

We all, obviously, want a legit cleanup hitter but it’s not like they’re growing on trees. I can’t understand how most people do not get that fact.

I am saying that if we can't get a legit cleanup hitter, we shud just go with what he have.

nick9314 - December 18, 2009 reply

my 2 pennies

I’d say we’re gonna re-sign LaRoche to a 2-3 yr deal, that way Freeman can continue to develop. We’re also gonna trade Lowe to the Halos for Rivera and maybe pay a little of Lowe’s contract. We’ll have Rivera for what, 2 years, in LF, unless J-Hey blows up ST. Cox only says “he’ll get his chance” not he’s def the starter. So sets up like this, in no batting order, just positions…

LF Rivera/Heyward
CF McClouth
RF Diaz
3B Chipper
SS Yunel
2B Prado
1B LaRoche
C McCann

SP’s Hanson/Vazquez/JJ/KK/Huddy

Just my thoughts IMHO

ROBravo - December 16, 2009 reply

Diaz would not start over Heyward in RF once he comes up. Not gonna happen

Heyward will also not play LF.

Waste of his athleticism and arm.

Swisher

for a middle of the order hitter BA and SLG are
useful measures. .245 and .460 lifetime do not add
up to the ‘big bat’ as proportionately he will not drive
the ball at a sufficent frequency. BB are nice, especially
for 1’s and 2’s to set the table and hopefully distract
the pitcher if they have some base stealing ability.

Otherwise at mid order you see too many rallies killed,
double plays. the Dodgers recognized this first and the
trend followed ever after, with the braves latecomers
to this concept after the lead footed 60ties and 70ties
excpet of course the roadrunner Ralh Garr although we
traded the prototype well rounded athlete Dusty Baker
to the, uh, Dodgers.

There are numbers that hold up over time eg in the equities
markets: EPS, PE, rate of return, sales/debt , ROG
that have never been surpassed as predictors by technical
analysis. Baseball ain’t rocket science my arrogoant
gents. If a big bat don’t hit enuf and run a lick and
swings at air too much he’s a throwback to another less
athletic era.

sealift67 - December 16, 2009 reply

duck

Cause someone bout to throw some shit at ya.

I don’t even really know what you are saying…

Facial hair of legends, can I go for it?

Please do.

justincredubil02 - December 17, 2009 reply

wow…I didn’t get that until SB responded….Fail for me!

After a re-read, I have the following comments:

1. You would prefer someone who puts the ball in play more to hit in the heart of the lineup regardless of the success of the balls they put in play. You don’t think walks in the heart are important. You would rather have someone with a higher batting average there than a person with a higher OBP.

2. Your logic has some holes. You accuse a low average person of killing a rally, yet they make fewer outs than someone with a higher average thanks to their ability to take a walk and not make an out. Not making outs extends rallies, not kills them…unless of course, you adhere to the Jeff Francoeur philosophy of rallies: hitting a HR will kill a rally.

3. A team does not necessarily need a monster HR hitter in the cleanup spot. It needs someone who can not make outs and someone who has some good power. High Avg should be the least of the stats looked at. OBP first, SLG second.

4. If a team puts a undisciplined hitter in the 4-spot, they are doomed to failure unless said player can hit for a .350+ average. Most good 4-hitters have an good OBP with good power, not high average with low OBP.

5. If we can find a player who hits for average, power and OBP, then great. That player is currently not available though (barring a blockbuster trade), so you may disagree with me, but I would rather have a guy who doesn’t make outs in the middle of my lineup. The best indicator of that kind of guy is OBP.

Smoltz Beard, you should be proud.

#2

So that’s why we never hit a grand slam last season

Yup…hitting a GS would have killed any sort of chance we had at scoring multiple runs….we were smart!

Question:

I’ve read the quote where Frenchy said that, so I’m not debating that he said it (and believes it) at all.

My question has more to do with his logic behind it. Does he think it kills a rally because it does, in fact, slow down the game a bit if you are the person coming up to bat? I’m just wondering if he said that from a personal, pad-my-stats kind of view since he maybe puts more into making his stats better over actually winning the game?

Most of the time homers cause pitching changes and, at least, a pause in the action. It has to throw the hitter coming to bat off a little bit. However, it helps the team to win win win, baby, which is what it should be all about.

Just wondering if we are getting a glimpse at the douche inside the bag or if he is just kinda stupid.

Can I go with Option C: All of the above.

Examples:

1. Doucheness – the Hanson in pinstripes comment, the arrogance he displayed when fielding questions about his struggles

2. Stupidness – the OBP comment, falling on his face in NY on that line drive, the “kills a rally” comment

that’s a very nice summation. I think Frenchy would agree too.

I guess you are right in that it is definitely a mixture of stupid doucheness.

I just never had thought about it from his perspective before today: a home run in front of him would only hurt his ability to pad his stats.

“This is not the rally you were looking for. Move along.” – Jedi Jeff

I wish I could find the GIF of when he epic failed at the art of fielding.

blitzerlover - December 16, 2009 reply

Duck! And Cover!

carpengui - December 16, 2009 reply

Hey now...

As silly as he looked there, I do have one of him making an awesome throw (of course, as evidenced by Renteria at SS, it was back when FYF was still considered “good”).

That was a hell of a throw. For all his faults, he still has an awesome arm!

FineHamAbounds - December 17, 2009 reply

Funny how his arm is about the only positive thing people can find about him lately.

He did have a cannon. Watching him nail players at home used to be a thing of beauty for me. Before he, you know, started sucking.

ATLforlife - December 17, 2009 reply

One of the best throws I’ve ever seen was when he was with Mississippi about a month before he got called up. He chased a ball into the deep corner in Chattanooga and fired a laser beam to home that allowed McCann to make a perfect play on the runner and catch him. Wow.

cbwilk - December 17, 2009 reply

Slow golf clap

haha

I was also going to add that Swisher only hit into 13 double plays in 607 total plate appearances last year, but good job otherwise.

The Big Bat's name is Heyward.

Bronn - December 16, 2009 reply

BTW

I am not fatazzfoot.

Bronn - December 16, 2009 reply

well that is a relief.