It was such a tumultuous few days, some of us may have forgotten what exactly the Braves did and got out of baseball's Winter Meetings. Here's a recap:
The Soriano trade is not yet official, the two sides are apparently awaiting the medical files or pending physicals to consummate the deal. Tampa Bay got a steal of a closer for next season at a reasonable $7 million-plus. A condition of the deal was that the Rays agree in principal to sign Soriano before the deal was complete.
The good news for the Braves is that we apparently don't have to send any money to the Rays, and thus the whole Soriano Surprise was just an unpleasant distraction that netted us a durable middle reliever for our bullpen next year. Jesse Chavez won't blow anyone's socks off, but in a pen where Cox likes to run people out there day after day, Chavez seems to be a guy that can be abused in that way. He's also a childhood friend of Jo-Jo Reyes, and was good friends with Nate McLouth when they were teammates with the Pirates.
The Soriano Surprise may have been a sour point for some fans, but the original thinking was that the team would not offer him arbitration, and it was only a few days before the deadline that we learned they would. Wren knew the risks, and instead of not offering him arbitration and ending up with nothing, they rolled the dice and ended up with a serviceable and affordable major league middle reliever. As weird as that is, I'd call it a win. Especially since we likely needed another middle bullpen guy like Chavez anyway.
Osuna was not a huge loss in the Rule 5, and the Braves usually do one of the best jobs of any organization of scouting their own players, so while he has talent, the Braves obviously thought more of some of the other guys they protected.
We have to believe that the main goal accomplished at the Meetings for the Braves was to lay the groundwork for a future trade of Derek Lowe. They should know the full market by now, and whether they need to wait until after Lackey signs or not. Hopefully we'll see some movement on one of those fronts soon, and hopefully he can bring back some sort of more valuable return than a Jesse Chavez, though to clear payroll, I may be willing to accept such a return if it means we can sign a bat.
0 recs | 140 comments
the Braves are to the Pirates as the Royals are to the Braves
esadb - December 10, 2009
Let’s hope we add Bay then.
Lennox - December 10, 2009
Not at 4x$16.5mill like the Mets supposedly offered. Wow, that’s high — I expected Holliday would be in that range.
carpengui - December 10, 2009
i think i'd pay that
for Holliday. I’d probably go to 18 a year.
apoxonbothyourhouses - December 11, 2009
there has been absolutely nothing published about us going or not going after Holiday
I think it’s just a waste to discuss getting him.
If our FO thought we could afford the $100+ million dollars he’s going to command, we would’ve kept Tex and at least tried to resign him.
Scott Coleman - December 11, 2009
you think that Wren's
going to let something like that get published?
honestly? after last off-seasons fiascoes, you really think he’s going to play his hand. Soriano = salary dump. Lowe = will be a salary dump “even if the Braves have to eat some salary” (which was published). GA off the books. Gonzo off the books. Church, and by extension Frenchy, off the books. Why on Earth is Wren clearing up so much payroll when Liberty is actually EXPANDING the payroll?
Who is he going after? A Starter? No. Cameron? maybe, but that’s a last resort and he won’t sign until January or February. We got 2 relievers, but their costs have already been absorbed. We will have almost 18-20 million to spend.
Again, I ask, who is he going after? A LF who can’t field? Highly unlikely as the Braves value defense as well. By logical extension, it’s got to be Holliday OR a trade for a guy we’re going to lock up long term (A-Gon…but that would require Freeman, Schafer, 1 of our younger/projectible pitchers and probably Medlen and that still doesn’t get it done). It could be a combination of guys like DeRosa and Cameron, but that would, honestly, be a relative mistake. but i’ll wait and see.
I think it’s Holliday and it’s very hush hush.
apoxonbothyourhouses - December 11, 2009
I find it highly unlikely that we are going after Holliday.
For starters, I haven’t read anything about payroll expanding. My understanding is that it will remain about the same. Second, we will have to pay for a first baseman, acquired either through trade or free agency; if they don’t suck, they’ll cost significant money. After that, getting an outfielder is a luxury. My guess is that the salary clearance (Soriano and Lowe) will free up $15-18 million that will be split between a first baseman and an outfielder. That puts us a second tier outfielder level—-and I sure hope it is Cameron and not overpaying for Byrd.
cavebird - December 11, 2009
Is this a guess, do you have inside intel or can you provide a link to some reputable source?
Liberty Mutual seems to be doing well financially and to be a highly entrepenurial, wheeling and dealing business. Although publicly traded, it is effectively under the control of its Chairman, John C. Malone, who has been dubbed “Darth Vader” for his toughness in deal-making.
My thought is Malone is just the kinda guy who would make a big move to win a championship and would manuveer way under the radar to try to put all the pieces in place. Ergo, if the coffers were opened, it could be a top secret and we would not know it until very late in the game.
fandave - December 11, 2009
Pretty sure its Liberty Media, not Liberty Mutual.
10-4 - December 11, 2009
right.
fandave - December 11, 2009
It's just a guess...
…based upon the lack of hearing anything to the contrary. I’d love for us to open up the wallet and grab Holliday, but I haven’t heard anything indicating that this will happen. Hell, I’d be happy if we opened up the wallet enough to sign LaRoche and Cameron. I am easy to please. ;)
cavebird - December 11, 2009
we did try...
we just failed miserably because the Yankees were offering significantly more than anyone else.
Mr. Sanchez - December 11, 2009
IIRC, we offered him somewhere in the neighborhood of $18M/season for 4 seasons – not a bad offer at all!
I can’t wait for the day when there is a maximum salary, like in the NBA.
justincredubil02 - December 11, 2009
Correct me if I am wrong, but when we were dealing with Tex, Liberty Media were not the owners.
justincredubil02 - December 11, 2009
Liberty bought the team before the ’07 season.
Lennox - December 11, 2009
Right, but it wasn’t finalized for like a year or two, right?
justincredubil02 - December 11, 2009
Pretty sure everything was finalized in May ’07.
Lennox - December 11, 2009
Only the Pirates and Royals both wish they were the Braves.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - December 10, 2009
Does anyone else think that Wolf, Penny, and Harden signing such big contracts will help us to move DLowe easier?
I mean, for goodness sake, any team willing to spend 10MM per on Randy Wolf would likely spend at least that much on DLowe
Zeus12888 - December 10, 2009
My thoughts exactly.
Yakker - December 10, 2009
It indicates there is a market for serviceable veteran starting pitchers.
I’d be surprised if Wren can’t get close to a full salary dump of Lowe (80% or more) with 1-2 mid-level prospects or a Major League ready player coming back
fandave - December 10, 2009
I think it helps, but we still need to wait...
…for Lackey to sign. Once he signs, with the second tier guys already signing (for significant money), Lowe will have suitors. I think we’ll be able to move almost all of his salary if we get something like Chavez (i.e. straight salary dump) in return. If we eat 20% of the money, we should get a decent return as you suggest. Depending on the possible return, either doing the pure salary dump or eating some contract might be the smarter thing to do.
cavebird - December 11, 2009
Once Lackey is done, although Halladay is still on the board, Lowe should be next to happen, if it will happen.
fandave - December 11, 2009
Honestly, at this point, I am not even considering Halladay as an available player. I don’t think anyone is going to pony up what Tor is asking.
justincredubil02 - December 11, 2009
Unless Toronto significantly...
…lowers its asking price, you are correct, Halladay is going nowhere. They want a huge return and they just aren’t going to get it.
cavebird - December 11, 2009
I know the Phils are really pushing to get him, and might even include Hammels in a deal. If that goes thru, I will not be amused….
bravesguy311 - December 11, 2009
I would be quite happy with that.
The Phillies are not a player for Lowe, so taking Halladay off the board to them helps us to move Lowe. Furthermore, given the Blue Jays’s demands, the Phillies will have to overpay to get him. If they want to make a bad move, let them—-especially since it helps us move Lowe, which helps us free up the salary to improve ourselves.
cavebird - December 11, 2009
Halladay for 1 season in the NLE is worth Philly selling its sould to the devil for the next 5-7 years.
justincredubil02 - December 11, 2009
Why?
Halladay is great, no objection. But we can run KK out to kick his ass when he faces us. ;) Honestly, the Phils are scary good and if they want to waste the farm for one year, I am happy with the wild card and the crap shoot of an NLCS against them. If they keep that talent, they are scary good for the next five years; Brown and to a lesser extent Taylor will be monsters.
cavebird - December 11, 2009
You are arguing my point to me…
justincredubil02 - December 12, 2009
Sori deal not completely done yet
-DOB tweet
where are you now J-Freak?!?
GoBravesNY - December 10, 2009
Is that title a Mighty Wind reference? If so, kudos to you.
TennKen - December 10, 2009
bats?
Are there any bats out there that are worth the money we are saving by trading Soriano and Lowe (if it gets done), or will we be overpaying for mediocre players?
MurphyHOF - December 10, 2009
guillen
the tigers are looking to acquire juan pierre from the dodgers but need a 3 way trade partner.. what about lowe to the dodgers, pierre to the tigers, and carlos guillen to the braves?
hobie222 - December 10, 2009
Interesting Deal but I still think that we are selling to Low on Lowe no fun intended, lol.
Lowe is still a great pitcher and one that will help any team that he goes to. Really if we didn’t resign Huddy we wouldn’t even be having this conversation about trading Lowe. The real fact of the matter is however that we overpaided to get D. Lowe and the Braves want a true power bat in return however their are simply none to be had at least for D. Lowe str8 up.
Our needs left:
1B/OF: We are looking for a guy that can play 1B and a little LF; I just don’t think Roachy is on the Braves radar anymore and we are banking on Heyward having a huge rookie season in 2010.
Who do we get hmm I have no clue; Swisher is not available, Nady could be a late free agent signing such as what the braves did with G. Anderson last season right before spring training.
So Lowe needs to go, Vaquez needs a contract extentsion, and lastly we need to figure out what to do with 1B and we are set.
Holty_Panthers_Fan - December 10, 2009
If Lackey resigns....
the Yankees could be a nice contender for Lowe.
Mr. Sanchez - December 11, 2009
The best part of that situation is that if Lackey signs with the Yanks, the Angels become a favorite to land D Lowe.
I think I would rather trade with them than NY. I think the Angels have more to offer – like Lowe +$3-5M for Rivera or maybe Lowe +$3-5M + good prospect for Morales.
I can dream, right?
justincredubil02 - December 11, 2009
Mr Sanchez...
Do the Yankees really need Lowe? Seems to me they have 3 proven quality starters, Jabba/Hughes and the guy they got from the Padres last year as a number 5, not to mention Wong. I think its the Mets who would be a far better fit for the rotation. Just a suggestion here… what about Lowe for a Flores type? Wasnt it theMets who offered him 14million last year?
mikie baseball - December 11, 2009
Jobba and Hughes suck as starters. Wang may be DFAd (rumors say that anyway), and he is coming off a season in which he was sent to the minors.
So yes, beyond CC and Burnett (injury questions themselves), the Yanks are in desperate need of SP.
justincredubil02 - December 11, 2009
Chien Ming Wang is a supposed non tender candidate...
and not ready on opening day even if he isn’t. Joba and Hughes both failed as starters, why they keep trying to do the same thing even though it clearly produces poor results is beyond me. Petite, Sabathia, and Burnett are strong, but Burnett has his inconsistencies, Sabathia has a lot of wear and tear on that arm even though he seems pretty healthy, and who knows when Petite’s age catches up to him. Plus, the Yankees are not afraid to spend money, and never have. So if Lowe is a 4th starter, I don’t think they’d really care if they feel he helps them win a World Series. I know I’d personally feel a LOT more comfortable with Lowe in my rotation than Joba, Hughes, Gaudin, or Wang.
Mr. Sanchez - December 11, 2009
I think Hughes is definitely in the rotation.
My understanding is that barring a surprise, the rotation would be Sabathia, Burnett, Pettite, Hughes, and Gaudin or a pick-up. While Hughes was not great the first time as a starter he is young and has great stuff, and it would be very premature to give up on him being a starter. The Yankees are smart to give him another shot. So, basically, the Yankees need a fifth starter upgrade on Gaudin at most. Being the Yankees, however, they could sign Lackey for that purpose, lol.
cavebird - December 11, 2009
And Lackey is such a better 5th starter than Lowe?...
And from all I’ve read, which admittedly isn’t all that much, Joba is a starter too. Someone has to set up, and assume Gaudin would be in the bullpen/emergency starter.
Mr. Sanchez - December 11, 2009
That's the $45 million question.
Is Lackey that much better than Lowe. Lackey is a free agent and costs a first round pick. Taking on Lowe’s full salary means a team can probably get him than less than a first round pick. Lackey is perceived to be better, but will require a longer commitment in years and bigger commitment in moeny. A smart team doing the math should probably just grab Lowe for free. The Angels need to step up to the plate here—-trade for Lowe for more or less free, get an almost as good pitcher (if not as good) for a lesser commitment—-and get the two picks for Lackey signing elsewhere.
cavebird - December 11, 2009
When did Lackey become a good pitcher???
That’s what I can’t figure out this offseason.
justincredubil02 - December 11, 2009
he's won World Series games...
that did it. I like his resume better than other 8 figure pitchers Ryan Dempster, AJ Burnett, Bronson Arroyo, Kyle Lohse, etc.
Mr. Sanchez - December 11, 2009
Is that a joke? He’s had FIPs in the threes 4 of the last 5 years, in the AL.
Yakker - December 12, 2009
Have you read somewhere that Joba will be in the bullpen or are you just assuming that?
Yakker - December 11, 2009
No I don't know Joba is in the pen...
…but they are rumored to be in for other starters, and if they get one, he’s the obvious guy to move.
cavebird - December 11, 2009
Over Hughes? I guess we’ll have to wait and see. Nice problem to have.
Yakker - December 12, 2009
Mr. Sanchez...
I see your points clearly. Having said that , they are far from desperate.As far as Joba and Hughes being failures as starters at he tender ages of 24 and 25, well I think that is a bit of an overstatement, as either of them would bring back talent in return from most other teams. The Yankees were desperate going into 2009 for starting pitching ,not 2010. Lowe would be only a luxury for them.
mikie baseball - December 12, 2009
Interesting. I like guillen. you have a source?
GoBravesNY - December 10, 2009
I would take Guillen
He can play first base can’t he ?
Really I guess if we could get Gullien I would be happy with that just to dump the D. Lowe contract so we could move on as a team and have money to look a bigger bat ? Maybe bring back LaRoache, bring in Nady, etc….. Right now we are simply out of money.
Hey what about KJ, Braves have until this Sat to decide to tender him or not ? I would like to see the Braves trade him and D. Lowe in a package deal.
Cards:
Get D. Lowe and KJ
Braves get:
Ludwick any takers but unlikely to happen since Cards have added Penny for pitching depth.
Holty_Panthers_Fan - December 10, 2009
That is way too much to give up for Ludwick. KJ alone would be too much.
justincredubil02 - December 10, 2009
I would do KJ for Ludwick straight up, but the problem is — they have Skip Schumaker for 2B.
carpengui - December 10, 2009
He has played a total of 70 games at first over his career
mad_dog_maddux - December 11, 2009
Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports says the Tigers have interest in Juan Pierre, and are “looking for a third team to supply the pitcher L.A. needs.” Odd, since the Tigers have more bad pitching contracts than anyone. The Tigers apparently prefer to unload Carlos Guillen. from MLBTR
hobie222 - December 10, 2009
Hmm, interesting.......
HEYJUDE - December 10, 2009
Could be OK, as long as Guillen is cheap and healthy.
Yakker - December 10, 2009
It says...
Guillen is owed 13 mill. for 2010 and 2011….
jeremy_legros - December 10, 2009
Right, I’d imagine the Tigers would have to eat a fair amount of that to make it interesting to Wren Of course, given their budget troubles right now, that’s unlikely.
Therefore, no Guillen.
Yakker - December 11, 2009
“The rumored deal would essentially be a swap of three bad contracts with Guillen going to the third team.” .287 career hitter and never more than 21 homers. Not cheap, and wasn’t healthy last year!
carpengui - December 10, 2009
See above re cheap. Re healthy, he had shoulder problems all year, but seemed healthy by year-end (back to switch-hitting). If his shoulder checks out, and we are going to play him at 1B, he’s got a decent bat for $14M/2, I believe.
Yakker - December 11, 2009
Some of that pitching (like the DTrain) will come off their books after 2010. I was hearing that they might have gonzo dollars available then…. something like $60million freed up if current plans work… which includes unloading contracts extending beyond 2010 like this one.
carpengui - December 10, 2009
Javy is to Yunel what Yoda is to Luke
Unleash the force. 2010.
Chief Noc-A-Homa - December 10, 2009
Wu ha' happen wuz
we got killed. Wren gets a big fat C- from me for these winter meetings. Jesse FUCKING Chavez!??!
nick9314 - December 10, 2009
Better than N-f-ing-nothing!
justincredubil02 - December 10, 2009
Not necessarily
Now we’ve got another nobody taking up space. I’d probably have responded more favorably to a PTBNL. Just get him off the books and sort out the fallout later, rather than taking the only piece they’ll throw at you right now, and that PTBNL might actually be worth something, unlike the return we actually got.
J-Freak - December 11, 2009
In Wren I trust.
Over the past few years, how many times have we said “We traded him for WHO???”
justincredubil02 - December 11, 2009
not many...
other than the Renteria deal, most of what Wren has traded for were major league players—Kotch, Vasquez, McLouth.
Mr. Sanchez - December 11, 2009
Re: Vaz – I remember many people wondering why Wren traded our top offensive prospect at the time for a career “loser with a 4+ ERA.”
justincredubil02 - December 11, 2009
THIS THIS THIS THIS
mad_dog_maddux - December 11, 2009
Those people are stupid.
Smoltz's Beard - December 11, 2009
THIS THIS THIS THIS
Mr. Sanchez - December 11, 2009
If anybody thought Flowers was our top offensive prospect they were stupid.
cbwilk - December 11, 2009
THIS + 1
Flowers = not as good as a Heyward, with no spot on the major league roster
Vazquez = underrated for much of his career, and due for a correction when he came to the NL.
Bronn - December 11, 2009
I agree completely, but you know as well as I do that some people here around this time last year were crazy.
justincredubil02 - December 11, 2009
so by all means, ...
let’s put stock in the words of people who clearly don’t know what the hell they are talking about. Because as we all know, KJ = BJ.
Mr. Sanchez - December 11, 2009
LOL
KJ=BJ is classic. Did we ever crack that code?
Smoltz's Beard - December 11, 2009
Like a Macguffin...
it’s better if we keep the mystery.
Mr. Sanchez - December 11, 2009
I thought it meant Kite Jobs equal Bike Jobs
justincredubil02 - December 11, 2009
which is ridiculous becuase bike repair is ont he rise with the high cost of oil…where kites have never been a reasonable form of transportation and the low cost of a kite doesn not necessitate a repair.
Swo12bv - December 11, 2009
I got it...
King James = Brandon Jennings. He was giving us his prediction for NBA Rookie of the Year. Personally I think Tyreke Evans will take it with a big push at the end as the Bucks struggle down the stretch.
Mr. Sanchez - December 12, 2009
Fuck you.
sry… that gotta outta hand….I am from Mil… and havent cared about the Bucks since 2001 when the refs decided the 76ers should be in the playoffs (ya i played that card)….and i finally care again, bc Brandon Jennings intrigues me. So he is my new favorite player and tyreke evans went to Memphis so i hate him.
Swo12bv - December 12, 2009
haha
Smoltz's Beard - December 12, 2009
I still cant believe
I stayed up late last night to see we were getting Jessie Chavez for Soriano. Total bullshit.
Kind of a boring Winter Meetings outside of the Soriano thing…weak rumors about KJ and Willingham, something about some Yankees reliever we didn’t get, a few teams are “interested” in DLowe, Xavier Nady wants to play for us…and that’s about it. Oh, and the Royals continue to be a AAAA affiliate for us.
Scott Coleman - December 11, 2009
Why is everyone complaining
Wren clearly said that a bat was not coming through trade, but free agency. All of the talk on here about the braves getting pena, upton, or crawford was wishful thinking. with the soriano deal we get 7 mill+ off the books and a potentially decent middle reliever for 400k and under team control for 5 years. now we go trade lowe in a similar salary dump and have 20 mill+ to spend on any desired free agents for 1b, of, and a bench bat
hobie222 - December 11, 2009
Wren actually said they were focusing on trades and then free agency
And I never said we were gonna get Crawford, Upton, or whoever else is on the Rays — well, I said “EVAN LONGORIA!”, but it was a joke — but we should’ve gotten more than Jessie Chavez for Raffy.
Scott Coleman - December 11, 2009
Yes, that's what he said.
Which pretty obviously meant—-dump salary first, then spend the money. If we were filling our needs through trades, we wouldn’t need to deal with the free agents afterwards.
cavebird - December 11, 2009
yeah, trades to clear up salary so we can sign a bat(s) through free agency….. “We’ve felt for a while now that it is unlikely that we could get the hitter that we want through the trade market,” Wren said while once again providing indication that he intends to fill his needs for a first baseman and outfielder via available free agents.
hobie222 - December 11, 2009
and another thing… if we ended up drafting a pitcher in the first round with the compensation picks we wouldve received for soriano, and that pitcher turned into a major leaguer that could make 60 middle relief appearances throwing close to 95, i think we would all be happy
hobie222 - December 11, 2009
Do you have a link to that quote?? I’ve been busy lately and havent been on the net too much. I’d like to see what else he said.
And if FW really is trying to fill his needs thru the FA market, he’s doing it very quietly. Both DOB and Bowman have their doubts about us bringing back Roachy. We’ve said we aren’t going after Holiday or Bay, and even though we said the same about DLowe in 08, it’s hard to believe we’re gonna win a bidding war against the Skanks, Muts, Sox, etc.
And if our only “impact bat” is a guy like Xavier Nady or Mike Cameron, we might as well save our money and let MattyD and Heyward play every day.
Scott Coleman - December 11, 2009
The interesting thing is
If you have been following MLBTR closely like I have the last few weeks, one of the least talked about at least semi-major offensive players is LaRoche. The only rumors lately have been a second thought in an article about how this team or that team has not had interst in LaRoche. It may be shapping up that there isn’t that much of a market for LaRoche or that the Braves have something in place for him already but are just waiting to clear some money by dealing Lowe. Who knows?
bbxxj - December 11, 2009
Maybe cause he’s garbage in the first half of the season?
Scott Coleman - December 11, 2009 via mobile
yeah, the weird thing is if we get rid of lowe’s salary without taking on anything it seems like we are going to have a lot of money with no good FA’s to spend it on. With the recent talk of us getting someone to play 1b and a little OF makes it seem like the only options are nady and derosa… also, because we are now saying we are looking at a 1b that can play outfield it really seems like heyward might start the year in the outfield
hobie222 - December 11, 2009
and that quote from earlier is from braves.com
hobie222 - December 11, 2009
Yeah, that comment bothered me.
The 1B and OF. Not because I disagree with guys like that in principal, it’s just that the guys who are 1B/OF out there on the market now are not the best guys out there. Nady and DeRosa are just not that good. DeRosa has nice versatility, but the money he is seeking is well beyond what makes sense for his abilities. I am still hoping for Delgado/LaRoche/Glaus? and Cameron, but I am not confident.
cavebird - December 11, 2009
.250/.336/.447/.784 23HR/162G in the first half isn’t exactly garbage. Its certainly not optimal for a firstbasemen but is it worth gutting it out for a .311/.377/.538/.915 30HR/162G second half? He also plays good defense (ie he can pick it with the best of them) and he fits very well in the clubhouse which has some amount of value.
Bringing him in on a two year deal would be just about the best thing we could do at 1B all things considered (prospects and financial investment to bring in something better)
bbxxj - December 11, 2009
I appologize to Adam
I had no idea his numbers in the first half are what they are. I just remember the miserable first few months he used to have with us, but I guess his numbers aren’t all that bad.
Scott Coleman - December 11, 2009 via mobile
yeah...
but that was pre-Ridilin days.
apoxonbothyourhouses - December 11, 2009
He’s never been a black hole in the first half. He hasn’t lived up to his ceiling in those months to be sure, but the fact that he hits ~.310-.320 with a ton of power in the second half makes his first half look like dogcrap in comparison. He’s more than passable in the first half, he just tends to set the world on fire in the second half.
J-Freak - December 11, 2009
Thanks for the specific splits.
Is it true that the big 2d half surge has been an every single year thing? Any exceptions (e.g., a year where the 1st and 2d #s were even close)?
fandave - December 11, 2009
I think 2005 was the only exception.
justincredubil02 - December 11, 2009
This is perhaps the very best option. One great reason is it sets us up to be able to pull off a mid-season heist of hopefully monumental proportions.
fandave - December 11, 2009
I’d rather have a stop-gap of sorts with someone who you know what you are going to get out of them rather than Heyward right out of the gates.
justincredubil02 - December 11, 2009
and I expect that is exactly what will happen. it is the safest, lowest risk option. but it would also very possibly tie our hands and limit our upside potential to really improve the club for the longterm at some later date – like July or August.
fandave - December 11, 2009
That depends. If Schafer or (more likely) Heyward prove their MLB worth, then that makes whomever we sign plus Diaz or possibly even McLouth expendable. Many teams would be interested, and it could possibly land us something to improve the club in July or August.
justincredubil02 - December 11, 2009
Yeah, maybe, but if you’re thinking big, you have to bid your time and maintain maximum leverage and bargaining power.
fandave - December 11, 2009
swisher
If the Yankees sign Damon they will have asurplus of outfielders to were i couldsee swisher coming here but he still isnt a number 4 hitter .
~~banditwolf~~ - December 11, 2009
F*ck swisher
Chief Noc-A-Homa - December 11, 2009
Yeah, what could we possible want with a cheaply-signed 3 WAR bat who can play OF or 1B?
Yakker - December 11, 2009
F HIM AND HIS FAMILY !!
cbwilk - December 12, 2009
LOL. I barely remember this meme. Was it a Tommy G slam when he complained about something?
Yakker - December 12, 2009
No, he was pissed about Hampton leaving, which was dumb at the time but even dumber now.
cbwilk - December 12, 2009
Oh, that’s right! Awesome.
Yakker - December 12, 2009
haha
Smoltz's Beard - December 12, 2009
There is nothing wrong with
starting Heyward in the major leagues. People are scared to do this because of what happened with Schafer. Two things to keep in mind here… Heyward is the #1 prospect in ALL OF BASEBALL. Accolades like that are not just handed out. Schafer was not as highly regarded of a prospect and was playing through a wrist injury. He will be very good. An outfield of Heyward/McClouth/Diaz would be great. Heyward will win ROY. Now go out and spend on a great 1B for the future. Spend money or prospects. the reality of the situation is that chipper is declining and wont be around much longer. We need a proven superstar. If we can get Bay or Holliday then do it and heyward can platoon with Diaz until he emerges. But ideally…build a package around freeman and deal for A. gonzalez and lock him up long term… superstar of the future with heyward/hanson/jurrjens developing into superstars to create our next dynasty
hobie222 - December 11, 2009
I doubt the Braves bring Heyward up until June b/c of his arb clock.
P.S. As for #1 prospects in ALL OF BASEBALL, please see Marte, Andy.
Yakker - December 11, 2009
Was Marte ever that highly regarded?...
he was a top prospect for us, but for all of baseball?
And if we are planning on signing Heyward to a long extension, ala Evan Longoria or Brian McCann, the arb clock doesn’t matter.
Mr. Sanchez - December 11, 2009
Yeah it does matter.
When the extensions are signed, both sides know which years (the free years, the arbitration years, and the free agent years) are being bought out by the contract. The terms of the contract are negotiated on that basis. So, alas, it does matter. That being said, if he is ready and tears up spring training, we’ll bring him up and be better for it—-remember that games in April count as much as games in September. Fortunately, we are a medium market club and don’t absolutely have to be cheap about calling up prospects.
cavebird - December 11, 2009
MARTE
was #9 in ’05… number one was the AL mvp in joe mauer and #2 was the runner up in AL CY young voting Felix hernandez… thanks for helping me prove my point
hobie222 - December 11, 2009
I guess it depends on who’s #1 you go by. Sickels had Marte as his 2005 #1.
Yakker - December 11, 2009
Sickels....
…in his big league with other big boys….bid $19 on Nick Punto in 2008. ’Nough said.
cavebird - December 11, 2009
You could say that about anyone. I find Sickels to be pretty balanced. He also gives very extensive explanations of his rankings, which I find to be more valuable than simply rankings by themselves.
Yakker - December 12, 2009
my only problem with Sickels is that he values results more than upside sometimes… mostly in reference to the younger guys. He doesnt give enough credit to high upside guys in the low minors (but i understnad his reasoning for that).
Swo12bv - December 12, 2009
If you want a proven superstar, you need look no further than McCann and soon to be, Escobar.
justincredubil02 - December 11, 2009
mccann
is a proven star, but not superstar… he is what joe johnson has been to the hawks… our best offensive player but will never lead us to a championship… i love mccann and he is great but when was the last time a catcher led a team to a world series title…
hobie222 - December 11, 2009
Tough to know what you mean by “lead a team to a world series title,” but I’d go with Pudge Rodriguez, 2003.
Yakker - December 11, 2009
McCann isn’t our best offensive player either…so, I don’t really know where to go with this.
I know this much: Before 2009, would you have considered A-Rod a superstar? How ’bout Bonds or McGwire? Maybe Dale Murphy? Then there is always Lance Berkman, Matt Holliday, Joe Mauer, etc.
Superstar is not defined by if a player can lead a team to a WS or not.
justincredubil02 - December 11, 2009
if mccann isnt our best offensive player
then who is… and ok superstar isnt always defined by WS but it plays a part…what i am saying is that despite having maybe the best pitching in the world, we arent gonna win a world series with the lineup we have right now and mike cameron and adam laroche isnt gonna turn it into that.. we need either a legit 3 hole hitter or a legit clean up hitter… right now we have neither
hobie222 - December 11, 2009
for example
people always hated on a-rod before this year for never winning a title
hobie222 - December 11, 2009
I disagree completely.
With the defense and offense LaRoche and Cameron provide, plus the kids coming up (i.e. Heyward), yeah, I would be gung-ho about us going into the season with that line-up. You think a big bat wins titles, but remember, in crucial situations, they will be walked. Having a balanced lineup, great pitching, and good defense wins championships. Unless you are the Yankees and can load the lineup with all great hitters. Then, well, what can you do?
cavebird - December 11, 2009
I honestly can’t remember the last time a “Big Bat” won a World Series title…
justincredubil02 - December 12, 2009
Barry Bonds came really close in 02 . Manny in 04. then youd probably have to go to 93 with Molitor… tons of offensive guys have won but i dont know if they are considered big bats (i dont know if Molitor is either, but i wanted to put him on the list)
Swo12bv - December 12, 2009
I should have rephrased that….I can’t remember the last time a World Series was won because of a Big Bat.
justincredubil02 - December 13, 2009
Chipper is easily our best offensive player, and a legit 3 hole hitter.
We absolutely can win a WS with the lineup we have right now (assuming LaRoche is resigned).
Pitching wins championships.
justincredubil02 - December 12, 2009
i think we demonstrated this past year how much we need a big stick by losing so many close, well-pitched games last year… chipper was a legit 3 hole hitter but .262 18hr and 71 rbi isnt gonna get it done in the three hole. he even admitted that if he continued to perform at that rate then he will retire
hobie222 - December 13, 2009
Question to the Frenchy...
lovers here…. I wonder what the Braves might have gotten had they held on to him in 2009? I would have to think he would have had a bit more value than a Church at the meetings.In Wren, I trust as well,but maybe he should go around to al these teams looking to pay up younger talent for Halladay and offer Lowe for a part of the package they are offering in return.Anyone remember what the Braves got for a pitcher named Alexander back in the late 80’s….hmmm?
mikie baseball - December 11, 2009
Trading Frenchy was not a move made to increase our bargaining position in the Winter Meetings. It was a move made to help our team bounce back and make a playoff run.
justincredubil02 - December 11, 2009
there are frenchy lovers here?
Skyagusta - December 11, 2009
many of the haters are lovers, but refuse to admit it.
fandave - December 12, 2009
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