The 2009 season is behind us for better or worse, and for the most part it was for the better. There were a lot of good performances, especially on the pitching side, and we finished with our best record since 2005. Here are the Atlanta Braves 2009 hitting and pitching MVPs and LVPs.
Hitting MVP: This is actually a pretty tough decision. No one really stands out, as there were some good performances, but not any great performances. All the really good performances were not for a full season. If guys like Adam LaRoche, Matt Diaz, and Martin Prado had posted the numbers they did in the second half for a full season, we might have had a three-headed MVP monster. I considered LaRoche, but he was a victim of his position in the lineup, and while he posted the highest OPS+ on the team, he wasn't in run producing situations enough, and of course, he was only here for half a season. Yunel Escobar gets some consideration, but he doesn't really act like an MVP all the time. He's got some growing up to do in that department.
I'm going to go with consistency for the MVP, and that would be Brian McCann. Once he got his vision straightened out, he put up some stellar numbers, and even when the rigors of catching 90% of the games slowed him down, he was still able to drive in runs. McCann quietly put together a terrific season, leading the team in homeruns, RBI, and OPS+ for a full season -- not bad production from a catcher. The runner up here is most certainly Martin Prado.
Hitting LVP: There are a couple of unfortunate candidates here. The guy I most want to give it to is Garret Anderson. He was just awful, and he played 134 games of .303 OBP and .401 slugging in a position where there should be a big bopper. Not to mention his defensive style is that of a hung-over beer-leaguer. He was bad, but not as bad as some others. We all know about how bad Jeff Francoeur was as a Brave -- the worst everyday right fielder in baseball. But we've done enough beating up on Frenchy, and besides we rid ourselves of his taint months ago.
Nope, the hitting LVP for the 2009 Braves is a guy many thought would really turn the corner this year, unfortunately he did turn a corner, just not down the road to improvement. Kelly Johnson played way too much before he was mercifully replaced by the excellent Martin Prado. Johnson spent way too much time in the lead-off spot, compiling a .274 on-base percentage while hitting first. His whole game suffered this year as he looked completely lost and/or over-matched at the plate. The runner up here is actually Jordan Schafer, another unfortunate season for someone who we had such high hopes for.
Pitching MVP: There are several very good and deserving candidates for this award. First off, we need to step back and realize that in Tommy Hanson, we probably saw the best debut of a Braves rookie starting pitcher ever... and the scary thing is he's only going to get better. There were some worthy bullpen performances. As much as Rafael Soriano and Mike Gonzalez struggled at times, they were two pretty darn good relievers for most of the year. Both of them had ERAs under 3.00 and strikeout-per-nine ratios over 10. Add Peter Moylan and his almost league leading appearances in there as well (he missed it by one game).
Jair Jurrjens was absolutely amazing this year, with the third-best ERA in the National League (2.60) while starting the most games on the team (34). But still, as good as he was, we had someone better. Javier Vazquez may have been the best off-season acquisition of any club. He ranked 6th in the NL in ERA (2.87), tied for 5th in wins (15), 3rd in WHIP (1.026), the 5th lowest in hits allowed, and the 4th lowest in walks allowed, while striking out the 3rd most per 9 innings pitched. Oh, and he pitched the 5th most innings in the league, and ranked right behind last year's Cy Young winner in total strikeouts. He was silly-good, and worth every prospect we gave up for him.
Pitching LVP: At first I was struggling with this one. There really weren't too many bad performances this year. No one in the bullpen stayed around long enough if they were stinking it up -- they were Blaine Boyered out of town. The default for this distinction goes to Derek Lowe. Yes, he won 15 games... I don't know how. When you look at his numbers (other than the wins) he definitely deserves this award. A 4.67 ERA and a disgusting 1.515 WHIP. Lowe gave up 10.7 hits per nine innings for a total of 232 hits -- the most in the NL. He is going to have to figure some things out and be more like the Lowe we saw in the first couple of months of the season.
0 recs | 150 comments
Why does nobody seem to care that KJ was hitting out of position and with an injury?
I know this gets old and people are tired of me posting it, but just look at KJ’s numbers after coming off of the DL…he was really good!
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
I will agree out of position...
we learned last year that KJ can’t hit for sh!t in leadoff. No reason Bobby should have expected more from him.
Mr. Sanchez - October 5, 2009
I think if someone can hit it shouldn’t really matter what position they are batting in. So i don’t really like this excuse.
BravesFanScout - October 5, 2009
i don’t think batting in the leadoff spot led to him trying to pull everything or popping up all the time. It didn’t even account for the ridiculous number of errors he had this year. I know it’s probably sad for some people to hear but Kelly probably won’t be a Brave next year
BravesFanScout - October 5, 2009
yep, and he’ll put up good numbers with a team that gives him a shot and make us look like jackasses
Hcgadawgs - October 5, 2009
that give him a shot? i think he’s had a great shot. I don’t know why people are obsessed with kelly johnson
BravesFanScout - October 5, 2009
I don’t know why people are so down on Kelly Johnson.
In case you didn’t know, Martin Prado was nearly as cold as KJ was this season for about the same number of ABs.
Also, KJ has been one of the top 3 offensive 2B in the NL for the past 2 seasons, yet we are all willing to stone him for 150 bad ABs and crown Martin Prado the next Chase Utley for 150 good ABs.
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
I think I’m in love
acie4mvp - October 5, 2009
He batted .307 in 450 ABs… So i’d say he had more than 150 good ABs. And actually in 234 ABs he batted .214. That’s terrible. That’s about 100 ABs to many… I’m not calling Prado the next Chase Utley but i do believe he can be a top tier second baseman when given the shot. As he showed when given the opportunity this year he is a great second baseman and hitter. A smart hitter who moves runners over well like a number 2 hitter needs to be. Kelly Johnson hasn’t hit over .287 in his career. He also is no Chase Utley. I would say Prado is one of the top second basemen in the NL this year. He is 2nd in average, 2nd in slugging, 5th in OBP, and 2nd in OPS. He made four errors at 2nd… thats 2nd in the league. Let’s go guys. Let’s get over Kelly Johnson. I know you guys must be related to him or either you ARE him or something because no one could love him this much after he was THIS bad and Prado was THAT good.
Hopefully Johnson is good trade bait to help the team.
BravesFanScout - October 5, 2009
Also, Prado had a head injury for a while during the year that lead to him slumping for a short period of time. He turned it around and was one of our hottest hitters in September.
BravesFanScout - October 5, 2009
And KJ had an injury that made his numbers terrible for the first half of the season…but, that is dismissed as usual.
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
A made up injury because he was so terrible they wanted him to go to AAA to get his game together
BravesFanScout - October 5, 2009
He was so intent on selling the fake injury that he took 3 cortisone shots.
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
Dude, they're cool to do.
It’s like legal steroids!
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
How exactly do you know that that injury is the sure fire reason why he was terrible in the first half? You dont know how long he was hurt. He could have been hurt for the whole time or a few weeks i have no idea but im not gonna say that injury is the reason he was terrible or it isn’t the reason, we have no clue.
rockybull - October 5, 2009
Well, that may be true. So we can say “pre-DL” and “post-DL”.
The turning point in the season was when he went on the DL. Read into that what you want or what you don’t want.
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
So BA is the only way to evaluate a player?
Also, Prado didn’t even qualify to be eligible for an errors rank at 2B, which is a terrible way to evaluate players, particularly one with awful range like him.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
He has had a good shot, you're right.
He was allowed to be an everyday player for 2.5 seasons. In two of those seasons, he was well above-average as a hitter.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
Seriously, what do you think he’s gonna do that would make us look like jackasses? Why is everyone so hung up on this guy? If he hits .300 for a full season I’d be surprised and we’d still have Prado in Atlanta doing that and playing solid defense. KJ will be 28 at the start of next season and he obviously can’t hit leadoff so i just wanna know, what’s he gonna do?
Rich Town - October 5, 2009
what he did for us the year before last…one of the best 2B in the NL…thats all…no biggie
Hcgadawgs - October 5, 2009
sarcasm btw
Hcgadawgs - October 5, 2009
Ok last year 2008 he batted .287 with 12 homers and 69 RBIs in 547 ABs, 349OBP, .446 SLG, and .795 OPS
This year he was just terrible.
Prado: .307 AVG, 11 HRs, 49 RBIs, in 450 ABs, .358 OBP, .464 SLG, .822 OPS
And why do we got back 2 years to see when someone had a good year? I mean if i look back 2 years ago there were a lot of guys who had nice years who are stinking it up now. Prado has proven he is worthy of the everyday job and he deserves it. IMO he was the MVP of this team. He could play anywhere. He brought a spark the team when we needed it and he hit great and played solid defense all year.
Kelly Johnson has had his time its time to move on and use him as trade bait to get something to help out our team. I’m starting to believe that some of these supporters of Kelly Johnson might actually be Kelly Johnson, His family members, or friends. I don’t see how you could want to have him around when he could be helping our team by leaving it.
BravesFanScout - October 5, 2009
it wasn’t two years ago..it was the 08’ season. one year ago. and if you argue it was just a fluke, you can argue his 1st half struggles were a fluke…because he’s been good in the 2nd half..
he was good in 07’ and 08’, hitting about .280 with over an .800 OPS in just over 1,000 AB’s…where with Prado, he hasn’t even had 800 career AB’s
so how can you legitimetly argue that Prado is better when Kelly was just as solid for two full seasons (not to mention he brings power and speed, in which prado doesn’t)
whose to say Prado doesn’t drop off after he gets 1000 AB’s…its just really stupid to give up on Kelly after one bad 1st half IMO, especially after proving himself for two full years which Prado has yet to do
Hcgadawgs - October 5, 2009
I posted this before, but apparently, you haven’t seen it:
And also, this:
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
Prado had an outstanding year. Johnson did not.
But you do have Bobby Cox kinda, sorta agreeing with you: “We just can’t give up on Kelly. He had too good of a solid year last year.”
I wouldn’t call that exactly a full-throated, loudly ringing endorsement, but still …
fandave - October 5, 2009
I think the numbers show that Prado had an outstanding month and a half and a below average month and a half.
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
which were a by-product of personal issues stressing him to the point that he was distracted from his everyday duties.
we can argue this all day however at the end of it all Bobby Cox has a lot of say so and the team is looking to save money so KJ will prob be out.
drumzalicious - October 6, 2009
Aww...personal issues? Cute.
If he was too distracted to play, he needs to find a different profession.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
Haha...if by solid defense you mean terrible.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
Prado does not play solid defense.
Period, the end. His range is garbage. Johnson also was never meant to be a leadoff hitter. He’s a run producer, and his best production has come at #5, #7, #6, and #8 in order.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
Can you show me that KJ was popping up and trying to pull all of the time?
I seem to remember him lining out quite a bit…
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
The linked article above showed his infield FB% was lower than it was in '08 or '07.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
So you'd prefer Prado just not get close enough to the ball to make an error at all?
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
I agree that is the way it SHOULD be, but that isn’t the reality.
The reality is guys hit better in certain parts of the lineup than in others. I don’t know why this is true, but it is.
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
...
This is why Chipper hits 20 points lower as the #4 than the #3. It’s also why Alex Rodriguez slugs 30 points lower at cleanup than #3.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
Really tired of the KJ apologists
The guy was flat out AWFUL this year. One of the worst position players in the league. I like the guy and I still hope he figures it out but WOW……..did he suck this year!
KC Ryan - October 5, 2009
I wish you people had stats that supported your thesis…sadly, you don’t.
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
actually
after he came off the DL, he wasnt “really good”…his stats were much closer to his career averages, which are a lot better than his start to the season, but those still arent great.
His worst was this line from August: .133 average, .278 obp, .333 slg, .611 ops
Doghnut - October 5, 2009
an OPS over .800 isn’t really good for a 2b?
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
you basing your entire argument on one stat?
im actually rather indifferent of KJ…but I think it’s a stretch to say he was really good over the last part of the season…he was much better than the beginning of the season but he still wasnt great.
tbh, i wish we had a better option at 2nd than kj/prado..neither of them excites me much
Doghnut - October 5, 2009
not at all…I am using all of the offensive slash stats.
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
He only had 30 ABs in August…
In 26 September ABs he had this line: .346 .400 .462 .862
in 18 PAs in July he had this line: .333 .412 .800 1.212
so his Pre and Post DL splits look like this:
1st half: .214 .286 .359 .645 (This is 234 ABs and 15 doubles, 5 HRs and 3 3Bs)
2nd half: .261 .358 .493 .851 (This is 69 ABs, 5 doubls, 3 HRs and 1 3B)
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
69 at bats is a very small amount to be so excited about.
cbwilk - October 5, 2009
and 150 ABs is a very small amount to be so upset about.
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
I mean, I could be upset about the 234 1st half at bats, that’s a little substantial. Or the 303 at bats that made up his total season. Or the 169 from last July and August when he was even worse than this year.
The guy has always been streaky, but it seems like his low streaks are getting worse, and the numbers are bearing that out. I know you love the guy, but at a certain point the numbers just aren’t backing you up.
cbwilk - October 5, 2009
agreed
Doghnut - October 5, 2009
234 abs vs 69 and you’re getting upset that people arent super excited about the stats from only 69 abs?
Doghnut - October 5, 2009
Or we could look at his career line of over 1000 ABs, but I didn’t think I would really have to break this down that much for people…
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
Career Line?
I know another guy with a pretty good career line who is under thirty that sucks. His name is Jeff Francoeur.
nick9314 - October 5, 2009
I am pretty sure Frenchy does not have a good career line…He definitely doesn’t have a line that shows improvement.
Meanwhile, KJ’s line (this injury plagued first half excluded) show steady progression in at least some categories.
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
Head to Head Career Line Comparison
Johnson .264 Avg. 1661 ABs 164 EBHs 203 BBs .777 OPS
Prado .307 Avg. 779 ABs 79 EBHs 65 BBs .810 OPS
fandave - October 5, 2009
oops...there you go
Here’s some other numbers for consideration:
Prado’s 2010 salary: $420,000
Kelly’s likely demand: $4,000,000 (which he ain’t gonna get I pray)
Why pay ten times more for a player who isn’t as good as his replacement?
DCP916 - October 6, 2009
lol see its not that hard is it? Its quite easy ;)
rockybull - October 6, 2009
This is the only argument that I don’t think anyone can debate. Going strictly on a salary based opinion, Prado is the better solution.
justincredubil02 - October 6, 2009
FYF's career line sucks.
His OPS is 30 points lower despite having a much better best (fluky) season than Johnson and playing at a far more offensive position.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
Really tired of the KJ haters
The guy was flat out GOOD for the past 2 years and over the 2nd half of this year – one of the top 3 offensive 2B in the NL.
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
Uggla, Utley, Phillips
I’ll also take Weeks when healthy.
nick9314 - October 5, 2009
Only Utley and Phillips had better numbers last year…and even if your list is true and accurate, that would make KJ the 5th best in the NL…
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
Uggla hit 23 more HRs, he hit 19 AVG pts higher, he drove in 61 more runs, and hit 121 OPS points higher. How was Kelly’s year better?
nick9314 - October 5, 2009
I meant Uggla, not Phillips…my B.
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
So Weeks gets a break for injury, but not Johnson?
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
The guy was flat out streaky
I dont know if you noticed but the last thing this team needs is an inconsistent bat. Thats what sets our offense apart from every other team.
Our catcher is the most consistent hitter we have however because he has to bat cleanup he cant get adequate rest therefore he has slight slumps.
if we could get a consistent bat to hit in the cleanup spot and bump mac to #5 we would have a more consistent offense.
KJ is not consistent.
drumzalicious - October 6, 2009
Which we have in Prado...or?
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
Escobar, Jurrjens and Hernandez
Yunel and Jair eke out the the MVPs, but McCann and Vazquez are close seconds.
Lowe is a solid low.
Diory Hernandez was so bad for 93 PA that he wins the LVP, only because Francouer didn’t stay long enough. Norton and Schafer also beat out Johnson, and throwing in the inability to throw, Anderson was worse than Johnson.
Drom John - October 5, 2009
I forgot about Diory Hernandez. Or maybe I put him out of my mind…
John Holton - October 5, 2009
how was diory LVP with only 93 PA’s when Frenchy had over 300 PA’s
Hcgadawgs - October 5, 2009
Because FYF's OPS was more than 50% better?
That’s an astonishing number for a guy who hit so poorly.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
In fairness to Diory, he only played because we had a rash of infield injuries. It’s not like anybody ever expected him to be a contributor.
Kelly, Chipper and Francoeur were not only expected to be starters all year but we were depending on them to be major components of our offense and defense. They were all tremendous letdowns. Toss Greg Norton in there as well, though at least he was only our pinch hitter.
Think of it this way: if I told you before the season started that Diory Hernandez would have 12 hits, you would say “no big deal, probably just a september call up providing some rest to a battered lineup.”
If i told you before the season started that Chipper would have 129 hits, Francoeur 75 and Kelly 68, you would say “oh shit, we’re screwed.”
Well, we were screwed.
DCP916 - October 6, 2009
ummmm
manny acosta? greg norton? what award can we give these losers?
Howi - October 5, 2009
The “hope we never see them again” award.
gondeee - October 5, 2009
Diaz....
most bad ass. Chipper….biggest falloff, most disappointing, and best looking(after frenchy’s departure)
Howi - October 5, 2009
Francouer Splits
Braves 11 over without him
1 under with him
Mets 4 under without him
18 under with him
I know there are many other reasons for teams’ performance, but does anyone want to venture a guess on the Braves final record with Francouer? I vote him LVP, the Braves make the playoffs if this deal had been done last offseason.
CharlotteChop18 - October 5, 2009
Here's mine w/o explanation
MVP’s
Hitting: Yunel Escobar – SS
Pitching: Jair Jurrjens – RHP
LVP’s
Hitting: Chipper Jones – 3B
Pitching: Derek Lowe – RHP
Jay212033 - October 5, 2009 via mobile
Hitting LVP
Chipper? I know your not serious. If it was “Biggest Drop off award” then yeah. But I know that you don’t think that Chipper was the least valuable hitter on our team.
nick9314 - October 5, 2009
the problem with chipper…while compared to the average player in the league his numbers were good…he batted in the 3 hole…and those numbers….260 something 18 hrs and 70 rbis aren’t 3 hole numbers and that prolonged slump he went into from that spot absolutely killed us. But for my money the LVP goes to KJ, sorry Justin.
bpk228480 - October 5, 2009
it really was pretty amazing how badly Chipper did, for so long, and while the team was doing its best work. I imagine that if Chipper had held up his end of the deal, we would have caught and passed the Rox.
Check this blurb from DOB’s write-up of the finale:
fandave - October 5, 2009
yeah chipper was terrible, but I also think he shouldn’t have been batting 3rd all season long. Yunel is our best hitter and should have been batting third. IMO i unless we get 2 big bats next year i would bat Yunel 3rd next year and move chipper to 4th or 5th (5th if we have get a power bat). And slide McCann down to 6th. This will only make our lineup deeper.
BravesFanScout - October 5, 2009
I agree entirely.
This would let us keep McCann fresh by giving him days off. Its much easier to replace your 6 hitter than your 4 hitter.
nick9314 - October 5, 2009
Chipper doesn't want to hit 4th.
Has said it for years.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
Batting average is the only stat that matters.
acie4mvp - October 5, 2009
He was pretty pitiful...
But much of his value comes from his OBP, which wasn’t mentioned.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
To me
Chipper Jones is the LVP of this team! Him hitting in the 3rd spot and not producing the way a #3 hitter is suppose to. Plus his defense at 3B was horrible, he made several key errors and his range is terrible. As much as I like Chipper he was not good this season. Your average 3B could put up the numbers he did.
Jay212033 - October 5, 2009 via mobile
I'm not saying that Chipper didn't have an off year
But to call him the least valuable hitter on the team is just not warranted to me.
nick9314 - October 5, 2009
How is it NOT warranted?!?!
He really didn’t help this team win games! I know Chipper is your favorite player and all but out of the everyday starters he was the least valuable player to me!
Jay212033 - October 5, 2009 via mobile
Ok, thats the confusion.
The question is confined to every day starters. Kelly Johnson wasn’t an every day starter and he certainly had a less productive year than Chipper. But c’mon, he played to an .818 OPS. We’ll agree to disagree, but I really can’t see how an .818 OPS is the LEAST valuable hitter on the team. Keep in mind, you are basically saying that if you had to go without one player, it would be Chipper. Not Kelly, not Schafer, not Norton… Yeah, I can’t understand that.
nick9314 - October 5, 2009
*****Isn't Confined to everyday starters
And btw, my favorite Brave is Yunel.
nick9314 - October 5, 2009
Re:
When Chipper was in the game at 3B I would pray that teams would hit the ball the other way, he has ZERO range at this point in his career. In August when he went down and the team won like 6 or 7 in a row, the defense was great with Prado at 3B and Infante at 2B we won without him then.
Jay212033 - October 6, 2009
His range actually wasn't all that terrible (better than any year except last since '05.)
But he made a lot of errors he just never has in years past.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
That's the subjective nature of the "valuable" part, though.
If guys can be MVP because they exceeded expectations, guys could obviously get LVP for not reaching them.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
i still cant get over javy's creepy ass pic
Doghnut - October 5, 2009
+1, wow.
cbwilk - October 5, 2009
Yeah, i felt that way too. He kinda looks like he is going to jump out of the pic and kick your ass, lol.
mad_dog_maddux - October 6, 2009
Vazquez also had a career year this year: tied for second-highest win total (16 in 2001); fewest runs allowed; tied for fewest home runs allowed AND walks issued; lowest ERA of his career and lowest WHIP; he posted the second-highest strikeout total of his career (241 in 2003). He also allowed only a career-best .223 BA.
Can we keep this guy PLEASE??!!
TonyAlmeyda - October 5, 2009
Sure you you love ’em, but do you know each of the players that played for the Atlanta Braves this season?
http://www.sporcle.com/games/SMcGrady/2009_Braves
BraveSaluki - October 5, 2009
43/45
Couldn’t remember Bennett, that’s the only one i kicked myself for. I wasn’t aware Brian Barton had found his way into a game this year.
BTW- If McCann is the MVP, HOW is Yunel not the runner-up? Prado? Puh-lease.
J-Freak - October 5, 2009
ahhh 44/45
stupid blaine boyer…somehow I got Vladamir Nunez though
bpk228480 - October 6, 2009
Brian Barton
The only one I missed. Forgot he actually got called up to Atlanta, for just one day.
royhobbs - October 6, 2009
Omar Infante
I totally drew a blank on him. Missed Nunez, too.
VivaLosBravos - October 6, 2009
This was mad fun.
40/45 for me. Missed Conrad, Barton, Parr, Carlyle, and Campillo.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
I'm also amused that McCann and Chipper were at 100%...
but nobody else was above 97.8% (Kotchman and KJ, surprisingly enough.)
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
KJ being LVP is crazy talk
Garrett Anderson basically performed at the same level as Kelly Johnson, only he did for 200 more plate appearances, and he played a position where the expectations for offense are greater. I don’t see anyway you can’t give it to Anderson unless you have a hard-on for trashing Kelly Johnson
lunatic96 - October 5, 2009
slash also played terrible defense.
Johnosn’s was at least average.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
Why did i get the feeling that once you put LVP next to KJ name that it would turn out to be Prado vs. KJ AGAIN hahah. This is gettin so old right now.
rockybull - October 5, 2009
Yeah, I’m starting to hope we trade him so every thread doesn’t end up being about him.
It was Frenchy, every thread, every time for a while and that finally waned, now it seems there’s a new one in it’s place.
NCChopper - October 9, 2009
this is very much true, but KJ was deplorable, especially when hitting .246 over the second half improves your BA.
In a different lineup and a different spot KJ could be as productive as he once was, but having watched him over the course of this year it seems to me that there is a hole in his swing. As a result, he overcompensated for it and hit a lot more balls weakly than he has in the past.
My take is that KJ was undoubtedly the better player than Prado, but after a whole year of watching him look lost I’m not sure he is anymore. Remember even when he was hitting well he still struck out 100+ times and IMO that a table setter does not make.
cirela20 - October 5, 2009
This a thousand times over.
KJ is NOT a leadoff man. He thrives in the 6, or 7 spot, but NOT the top of the lineup.
Some people are just cut from a different mold.
justincredubil02 - October 5, 2009
yep
but unless he can make that mold fit with the teams, he can and should be moved.
I do hate to sell low but we should get what we can for him and hope that other teams see that same run producing potential, because like it or not there’s no way that Kelly will be starting come 2010.
And with Omar Infante being way more versatile it would be a waste of everyone’s time and money to see KJ as a third string player.
Trade him for the best deal available or package him with someone for the closer that we’re gonna need. I’m sure the Royals (mini-braves) would give us something for him. haha
cirela20 - October 5, 2009
not to turn this into rosterbation...
but that’s why I think KJ to the Pirates for Hanrahan or Capps makes sense. Solid hitter for the middle/back half of their lineup and relatively cheap 2B for what he’d provide them, with similar salary to either of their young but somewhat unreliable relievers who have closing experience. It’s a deal that fits well for both sides.
As much as I’d love to see KJ around, if it means he’d be hitting in the 1 or 2 hole, he needs to go.
Mr. Sanchez - October 5, 2009
Infante and Prado BOTH have so many more places they can be used than second, though.
I don’t see why you couldn’t get KJ two or three starts a week without taking away their time, even if they are higher than him on the AB depth chart for no reason.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
I predict KJ will end up like Mark DeRosa did. A guy we let Bobby Cox’s misuse/dislike of cause us to non-tender him, then we’ll have to watch him turn into a better than average player for some other team who got him for nothing.
See also Dye,Jermaine
Rhyno18 - October 5, 2009
Dye was traded because he was right handed and they like Andruw Jones better (a choice that payed off for a long time) and they needed a lefty to compliment the rookie AJ. So he doesn’t really fall into that category.
And as far as DeRo, he got 309 at bats in 04 and put up a .614 OPS to go along with some questionable defense. He was actually a lot worse than Kelly this year and was bad the year before too. Plus, he was going to be 30 the next year. The fact that he turned his year around is a testament to his work ethic and some luck.
cbwilk - October 5, 2009
DeRosa wasn't misused...
We didn’t have room for him as a utility player anymore, and he couldn’t hack it as a full-time starter at third.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
quick word about KJ
after listening to Wren in the booth Sunday, and after talking about our middle D (and after mentioning the specific names of Prado, Escobar, KJ and McLouth), he said something to the effect of, “we are very solid up the middle with 4 guys we want to keep.”
maybe this means KJ stays…yay! Hopefully KJ can work on some LF this off-season to increase his value to our team, like Joe Simpson suggested. I wonder if his arm can hold up out there.
Plus, I told Frankie NOT to trade KJ, and he said he would “love to keep him.”
Jareth Cutestory - October 5, 2009
The arm is the question...
He hasn’t played anything but 2B since the injury. You’d have though he’d have gotten at least some reps somewhere else at some point if he still could.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
I would trade
KJ for Conner Jackson all day, any day!
Jay212033 - October 6, 2009
I’m not sure about giving Lowe the LVP. If you ignore his salary (which is asking a lot) then you have to acknowledge that he pitched roughly 200 innings, won 15 games and the Braves had a good record when he took the mound. Granted that was sometimes despite Lowe as opposed to because of him but you can’t fairly say he was the least valuable when he so often managed to do enough for us to win games all season long.
I’ve said it a million times but baseball is about winning. That’s the only reason you play the game – to win. Everything else is just fodder for fantasy nerds and stat heads.
Our pitching was so good overall that it is tough to designate a LVP, but to me that guy would probably be Kawakami. Like Lowe, he wasn’t cheap – nearly $10 million this year, at the expense of a bat we could have used – but unlike Lowe he struggled to eat innings and the Braves always seemed to lose when he pitched.
DCP916 - October 6, 2009
but he was actually better than Lowe. Kawakami just got no run support.
BravesFanScout - October 6, 2009
Don’t you dare…
justincredubil02 - October 6, 2009
"always seemed to lose when he pitched"...
because we couldn’t score runs, not because of his pitching. Kawakami was more than solid. Lowe or Acosta are about the only choices, by default. Every other P that spent the majority of the year up with the club was too good so the options to choose just aren’t there, unlike for least valuable hitter.
Mr. Sanchez - October 6, 2009
Well
On the main site it is saying that they are looking to trade Lowe the most. If this is true i will be ecstatic.
drumzalicious - October 6, 2009
looking and doing are two different things unfortunately.
yondaime4 - October 6, 2009
ATLandUNC - October 6, 2009
But seriously...
I was actually on the “but KJ was one of the best 2B in the league! Prado is a sub!” boat for a while to begin the year, but then you know what happened? Common sense happened.
If you watched Prado this year, there is NO WAY for a rational peson not to realize he did better at 2B than Kelly ever has unless you blatantly have a baseball boner for Kelly or you blatantly hate Martin Prado.
Kelly Johnson – 2009 – 3 HORRIBLE months – 1 good month’s worth of ABs
Kelly Johnson – 2008 – 3 bad months and 3 good months
Kelly Johnson – 2007 – 3 bad months and 3 good months
He is good when he’s hot, and awful when hes not. That type of player hurts the team as much as helps it.
Martin Prado has a higher career OBP, OPS, AVG, SLG%, plays as good or better defense and is much more consistent.
tl;dr
WHY IS EVEN THIS AN ARGUMENT ANYMORE
stay tuned for – oblivious justincredibul reply about
(a. – INJURY!
(b. – 2007!
(c. – ISO!
ATLandUNC - October 6, 2009
awesome! haha. I really believe that some of the supporters might actually be Kelly Johnson or his family because no one could love him that much other than himself or his family.
BravesFanScout - October 6, 2009
He didn’t have 3 HORRIBLE months this past season…more like 2.
Prado had 2 HORRIBLE months too.
justincredubil02 - October 6, 2009
Sigh….by month
Kelly Johnson:
Apr: 69 PA .203 avg .686 OPS
May: 96 PA .297 avg .828 OPS
Jun: 85 PA .125 avg .396 OPS
Jul: 18 PA .333 avg 1.212 OPS
Aug: 37 PA .133 avg .611 OPS
Sep: 30 PA .246 avg .862 OPS
1st half: 263 PA .214 avg .645 OPS
2nd half: 83 PA .261 avg .851 OPS
Martin Prado:
Apr: 23 PA .350 avg 1.035 OPS
May: 59 PA .208 avg .653 OPS
Jun: 73 PA .359 avg .921 OPS
Jul: 121 PA .324 avg .855 OPS
Aug: 94 PA .291 avg .738 OPS
Sep: 133 PA .308 avg .834 OPS
1st half: 214 PA .330 avg .889 OPS
2nd half: 289 PA .289 avg .772 OPS
Where were Prado’s 2 horrible months? I’ll give you May, but where’s the other one? Even in August when he was having issues with headaches and all he still outperformed what Johnson did for most of the season.
cbwilk - October 6, 2009
why even argue with this guy CB? He wont listen. This is the same guy that would rather have KJ over Cano and Pedroia so of course he isn’t gonna think much of Prado. Only thing he has actually said that is good about Prado is the money thing which Prado makes alot less than KJ but as far as the numbers he keeps sayin KJ is better so let him go on about it. I respect everyone’s opinion and im not replyin sayin Justin is an idiot or anything like that just tryin to give you advice CB by sayin let it go cause i doubt what you just said is gonna make much if any difference to justin.
rockybull - October 6, 2009
I know you’re right, I’m not going to change Justin’s mind, but hopefully I can influence somebody else who thinks like him.
cbwilk - October 6, 2009
You are the one who said that starters deserve a second chance, but not KJ because he sucked for 2 months.
justincredubil02 - October 6, 2009
Im not gonna get into this AGAIN with you but i have said in other posts its NOT just this year that has me tired of KJ. He had 3 bad months last year and 3 good months last year. He is inconsistent plain and simple he was last year he was this year its not just 2 months. Im not gonna reply back if you have somethin more to say so if you wanna post whatever stats then good for you but im not gonna pay attention to it. I have seen both stats so you can argue with yourself about this or others that wants to get in this.
rockybull - October 6, 2009
I’m going to post that you’re wrong, and regardless of what you say back, I am going to ignore it. That way, you look like someone who always has to get the last word in and I look like the rational one!
justincredubil02 - October 7, 2009
LOLmax.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
To be fair, it was more of a month and a half than 2 months. From mid july through August.
justincredubil02 - October 6, 2009
Prado's defense is abysmal, and he's no less streaky.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
Thread closed due to Kelly Johnson debate threshold exceeded.
10-4 - October 6, 2009
I just can’t help it…I try to ignore things, but I am too weak of a person to let certain things go.
justincredubil02 - October 6, 2009
I think you ARE kelly johnson. I’m sorry nobody wants you around next year but good luck with another club. Or sorry Kelly Johnson’s mom i know it upsets you when we talk truthfully about your son.
BravesFanScout - October 6, 2009
the truth about her son is that he was the 3rd best offensive 2B in the NL for 2 consecutive seasons. Then he went into a horrible slump (one that was not quite as bad as that 3B’s though) and everyone wants to hang him in favor of a guy who was incredibly hot for a month and a half, yet has just over 700 career ABs.
And it isn’t “Everyone” who wants KJ gone next year…I’d say that it is about 60-40 on this site.
justincredubil02 - October 6, 2009
It doesn’t matter if its 90-10 on here that wants him gone it matters what the Atlanta Braves Front Office wants so we shall see. Obviously if he was still cheap then of course the FO would still want him but with him maken the money he is maken thats for sure gonna play a huge part on what they do with KJ. I would be extremely surprised to see KJ return unless Braves plan on maken Prado a 1B next year, other than that KJ will prolly be with another team. But like i said Wren is gonna be the one maken the decision not me lol.
rockybull - October 6, 2009
WTF was this even necessary to post? Don’t you think that I know the FO has the final (and only) say-so in this matter?
Also, according to Frank Wren, KJ is someone that they WANT to keep. So, at least as of right now, the FO agrees with me.
justincredubil02 - October 7, 2009
I wanted to post it, i have the right to post whatever i want like that so deal with it.
Yeah alot of GM’s have said they would LIKE to keep a player but sometimes they end up dealin that so called player they wanted to keep so we shall see. I hope you realize that just because the FO says somethin now doesn’t mean it will happen, we will see if the FO agrees with you on opening day or not thats when it matters.
rockybull - October 7, 2009
someone is a little touchy…
justincredubil02 - October 7, 2009
No im not lol. Your comment said, “WTF was this even necessary to post?” So what do you expect me to say about that? Somethin like this: “Well you know you are right justin there was absolutely no reason at all to post this.” Would that have made you happy? hahah. I mean i posted it cause i can and i wanted to. I would have said the exact same response to anyone so dont think that your gettin me pissed or whatever cause im calm. You said in another post that you just sometimes cant let stuff go. Well im the complete opposite i can let stuff go cause frankly its not even worth continuing some arguments no matter who its with.
rockybull - October 7, 2009
apparently…
justincredubil02 - October 7, 2009
Can you feel that?
It was great big smooch right on your kisser. ;-)
NCChopper - October 9, 2009
hahahhah +10 for that one
rockybull - October 6, 2009
reply failed, that reply was to BravsFanScout.
rockybull - October 6, 2009
Think you've a little down on Derek Lowe.
His peripherals aren’t much out of line from the past five years. He’s a guy who allows a lot of balls in play and those can find holes or not, be fielded or not. Most of the starting pitchers on the staff posted BABIPs around .300, while Lowe was at .330. His FIP was 4.08, above average for a starting pitcher.
Jurrjens gets a bit too much love, too. Sure, great ERA, but the K/BB is average. Nice job preventing homers, but Javy destroyed him in everything. Vazquez was the second best starting pitcher in the league and should finish second in Cy Young voting behind Timmy L.
Sky Kalkman - October 7, 2009
Our weak defense did not help out Lowe much, you got that much.
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
Haha...
Vazquez and Lowe have ridiculous team pictures
MichaelProcton - October 8, 2009
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