Talking Chop

I didn’t….but the people on here are mostly douches who think Frank Wren is a god or some bullshit.

and let me also point, how “awesome” does this make the javier vazquez trade look? We could had Peavy for Flowers, now we have a guy with a 4. something era and a career losing record

Ignorance annoys the hell out of me.

Dude you are such a fag nothing above your comment was ignorant. It was TRUTH.

stupidity annoys the hell out of me

peavy was going for flowers straight up?

news to me…

and other pieces we surely could have afforded once a hot commodity such as flowers was made available.

my point is why was flowers not available for a cy young winner but available for a mediocre at best pitcher and a complete LOOGY, except he can’t even get that 1 out most of the time.

because the peavy deal was centered around escobar, with flowers, morton, locke, etc. as the other “pieces to the puzzle”

the proposed deals aren’t/weren’t even remotely comparable

This hurts really bad.

Glavine and Maddux had already bolted so Smoltz was our last hope that one of them would stay here their entire career. I can’t help but lose respect for Smoltz.

bbxxj - January 8, 2009 reply

its not smoltz’s fault ATL isn’t a contender and didn’t make a better offer. He did get divorced last year, I’m sure that had to change his financial needs and he might be the most competitive athlete on the planet, no one wants to win worse than Smoltz so playing for a mediocre team isn’t something he is interested in. Best of luck to the man, I hope he plays well

jeg - January 8, 2009 reply

amen

Swo12bv - January 8, 2009 reply

I agree 100%…Why low ball Smoltz over 4mil? We have $$ to spend but not to the Franchise best pitcher of all time? I wonder if Chipper will be next in line to bail or the front office have the balls to trade chip mid season once we are 15+ games out to AL for a Kings Ransom for 10’/11’ season with the rest of young talent.

I bet ALOT of season ticket holders or no more after this bit news!! Prepare for a poor attendance in 09’

Bravofan - January 8, 2009 reply

The Braves already had shitty attendance.

This makes me really sad

John Smoltz is my favorite Brave pitcher and to see the Braves let him go to another team for what is probably the last year of his career really makes me frustrated and sad. Smoltzy deserved better treatment than that.

We’ll miss you John.

RonGantFan - January 8, 2009 reply

I don't understand this

I know I remember reading a few weeks ago that Smoltz wouldn’t even talk about rehab/contract matters until Spring Training approached as he wanted to see how he felt. Now all of a sudden he’s talking contracts with other teams? I’ve been a lifelong Braves fan, so of course I’m a fan of Smoltz, but I’m even wondering if he gave the Braves a chance on this one. I’m leaning toward thinking he just wanted to bold for greener pastures. And I guess I can’t blame him, but fuck, the true fans haven’t bolted on them, so why should we give the players a break.

you are dumb if you are blaming Smoltz for disloyalty. Wren should have been prepared to pony up given all of the rumors of his agent shopping the market. If you were Wren hearing about Smoltz name tossed aroiund at the winter meetings that you would get your ass in gear and be the first to offer him a contract?

temjin9876 - January 8, 2009 reply

I’m not blaming him for disloyalty. But maybe he had been wanting to jet all along. I’m just saying that his past quotes don’t match up to what’s happening now.

His agent WAS handing out his medical records at the winter meetings, just saying, just saying

bravesguy311 - January 8, 2009 reply

Right, at the Winter Meetings. So apparently he was looking elsewhere fairly early. I know I’m gonna get bashed for this, but I just get the feeling that Smoltz was just ready to get the hell out of dodge. And even a matching contract by Wren would not have kept him around.

I think you’re right. I think he wants to try to win another World Series, which I why he’s signing with Boston and not, say, Detroit, which would make more sense.

cbwilk - January 8, 2009 reply

I couldn't agree more

I am so tired of these professional athletes having no committment to a team, especially one which has worked with Smoltz for 21 years. When he couldn’t be a startinhg pitcher, they didn’t kick him to the curb, they spent their time and money working with him so he could become a closer. When he was ready to come back as a starter, they said great, here’s the ball – go for it – we will help all we can. It isn’t like they haven’t paid him well for 21 years and quite frankly 4 mil. to one of these guys is like $20.00 to most of us. It certainly is more than I will make in a lifetime. The Braves need so very many players this year that to give a 41-year-old that much money doesn’t make good economic sense. The Red Sox can do it because they have more to spread around. I am tired of the Yankees and Red Sox throwing money in these guys faces and rather than stick by the ones that stuck by them, they take the money and run. I don’t blame anyone but Smoltz and I think this was his plan all along.

TRichmond - January 10, 2009 reply

If the Braves lose Smoltz over 4mil in cash, I really won’t know what to say. I think I’m going to go find a dog to kick.

Worst.
Offseason.
Ever.

TheSportsIdiot - January 8, 2009 reply

What. The. Fuck.

Seriously. We have upwards of $30mil sitting in the vault. Just sitting there. And you can’t justify giving him 3 to 4 million more, just to keep him around. REALLY? I haven’t been critical of Frank Wren yet, but this is unpalatable. This is a terrible decision by the organization to let him walk away.

That being said, I’m glad Smoltz has a chance to win now, even if it is with the Red Sox. I don’t fault him at all, especially since it seems as though the Braves had moved on anyways. He’s not going to stay where he’s not wanted.

soup du jour - January 8, 2009 reply

I'd also like to add this nugget that has yet to be mentioned.

“In addition, the Braves were worried about the severity of damage that Dr. James Andrews found when performing the shoulder surgery. Sources have said that Smoltz’s shoulder is currently bound together by five anchors.”

So if Smoltz’s shoulder falls off before the break, will anyone forgive Wren? Or should we have kept him around anyway?

If there’s nothing else done with the money (or worse, we sign the likes of Garland or Perez to fill his place with that money)….No. No I won’t forgive him.

soup du jour - January 8, 2009 reply

We should show a bit more give to a guy who went on the mound year after year knowing his arm could fall off and continued to pitch. Sometimes dropped to side-arm just so his breaking ball would work with minimal pain. This guy is a gamer… He’s given so much to the city of Atlanta and to the team. Frank Wren doesn’t appreciate that apparently. The bad PR alone is enough reason to keep Smoltz in town no matter what.

aaaaandTheBravesWin - January 8, 2009 reply

Agreed

Don’t get me wrong, I have been a huge fan of Smoltz ever since his amazing turn around in the early 90s. My admiration/appreciation for him only grew as he owned the league as both a starter and a closer. Unprecedented.

Amazing athlete, yes. BUT, we can’t lose sight of the fact that his shoulder – the one that previously won a Cy Young, set save records, and allowed him to dominate the post season – has been a liability for the past few years. Athletic ability can’t compensate for a shredded shoulder. This truth really hurts.

Feelings aside, does anyone honestly think we should have signed Smoltz? He will not be available until at least a month into the season. Maybe he comes back and starts this year like he did last….which was great until he went down…again.

For all the Frank Wren Supporters:

This is why I have questioned Wren’s judgment up to this point. He has no vision or respect for the game. Giving a hall of famer a guranteed 2 million is a slap in the face to Smoltz and to all the fans that watched Smoltz’s career unfold here. For so many years, he gave back to the oranization by giving tremendous discounts and this is how we pay back his loyalty? We are sitting an unused pile of cash and we couldn’t match the much deserved offer from the Red Sox. We love you Smoltzie and we don’t blame you for your decision. Frank Wren is a useless businessman who values nothing about the game and its players.

Now, who out there is going to sit there and defend him this time???

temjin9876 - January 8, 2009 reply

THANK YOU

I have been anti-Frank forever, and people on here want to rip you a new one for even suggesting Frank is doing a bad job. WHAT NOW BITCHES?

ME!

Wren is doing what is best for the Atlanta Braves organization. Not what is best for little fanboys on the internets. Smoltz’s shoulder is shredded and the Braves have shown him plenty of loyalty in the past. I love Smoltz too, but also understand that it may be best for Atlanta to move on to the future.

I wasn't going to comment

But you (JFP) are absolutely correct. I’m not even going to waste my time reading the other comments. I wish Smoltz would just retire, but pitching and competing is in his blood and he’ll not likely step away from the game until it is impossible for him to pitch, either from pain or from lack of offers from teams like Boston who have the money to risk. I don’t blame him. I accept what he wants to do. I don’t blame Wren. He is doing what he needs to do. If Smoltz bombs Wren will look like a genius, and if Smoltz goes on to play ten more years and win three more Cys and get 150 more wins and 150 more saves, Wren will look like the biggest dumb ass in the world.

SunDolphin - January 8, 2009 reply

should have gone with your first thought

you’re ignorant for not reading the other posts. or, more likely, you’re a fucking liar. there is no way wren looks bad for keeping smoltz. name one guy that ever looked BAD for keeping a legend on the payroll (bringing one in doesn’t count, so don’t talk about………..)
Guys finish on other teams all the time (ruth, unitus, favre), but nobody blames management for keeping a guy until the end (Larry Bird, Reggie White).
This wasn’t a good business decision and it wasn’t a good baseball decision. Wren tried to lowball smoltz and he should be fired. fuck frank wren

ME!

First, be upset that Smoltz left. That is a perfectly reasonable reaction to the situation, but how in the fuck can you blame Frank Wren for this? Honestly, your ignorance towards how baseball “business” is done is astounding.

Giving a hall of famer a guranteed 2 million is a slap in the face to Smoltz and to all the fans that watched Smoltz’s career unfold here.

Except Smoltz is nowhere near his hall of fame self, he had career ending type surgery (you know, the kind that typically ends careers) and has thrown off a mound once to my knowledge. Offering him anything more than $2 million plus incentives is ridiculous. So the Sawx overpaid and most likely won’t get anything in return, though I’ll admit he has a chance to come back, what would you be crying about if we offered Smoltz 10 mil and never made it back? Lie all you want, you and your friend JJ here would by whining that Wren is a dumb ass for spending that money on him in the first place. What a bunch of fucking bandwagon babies. Growing up.

Yeah Frank Wren is doing such a great job. So far he has traded for a sub-.500 pitcher, resigned Greg Norton, and signed a backup catcher. Wow. We are really gonna be so much better than last year. You people are idiots.

That’s your rebuttal? Seriously, is that the best you can do? I left you so many holes to bash me on and you pick the general signings that are basically meaningless in the grand scheme of things, but necessary for all teams, to pick on? HHAHAHAHHAAAAA!!! Boy, you really showed me!

W-L records for pitchers

I never get tired of people bashing a pitcher for a poor W-L record, when so much of that is decided by forces outside a starting pitchers control. The man has some seriously good peripherals, which are more important, and has been unfortunate at times.

Frank Wren doesn't get it

Smoltz is an Atlanta icon! I cannot believe we can offer a disabled list frequent flier $80 Million but we cannot give the one guy who has taken less money to stay in Atlanta EVERY SINGLE TIME more than $3 million guaranteed!? I’m sorry. I spoke with Frank during both his web sessions from the past year and a half and I’ve lost a ton of respect for you sir. I understand business is business… But the team cannot afford to lose a baseball warrior like Smoltz. He may be old, his arm may be held together with staples, rubber bands and gorilla glue. But it’s Smoltzie… This is ridiculous… I live in Vermont and I’m thinking of jumping ship to the team that actually plays on TV up here… TBS deal is gone, Texeira along with all our prospects are gone. No Jake Peavy, no Furcal, no AJ Burnett…
Does anyone see the writing on the wall here? Loyalty cannot deter the fact that not only does the rest of MLB think the Braves are finished. But one of their two team leaders thinks they’re done as well…

I know we can’t blame everything on Frank Wren, but at some point someone needs to look at why deals seem to fall apart when he’s around. Losing Smoltz is the last straw for me. I have NO confidence in my beloved teams’ GM. NONE!
Let’s see if JS can jump back in and save the offseason because at this point… I’m not looking at buying an online package so I can watch my team. Let alone moving to the Atlanta area… (Yes I’m that big of a Braves fan).

all our prospects are gone

Really? Do you know anything about the Braves?

HU?

Put it in context… I was referring to the glut of prospects we sent to Texas in exchange for Texeira. “all our prospects are gone” was referring to the sentence it was in… You’re really going to nit-pick on a blog response aye?

awilliams16 - January 9, 2009 reply

I've reread your post.

I’m sorry, but in my opinion it still sounds like you meant to say that the Braves have no prospects.

Texeira along with all our prospects are gone

My mistake.

mvandonsel - January 9, 2009 reply

WOW

What a sad day in America. Seriously thou, how bad does our organization look right now?

bravesguy311 - January 8, 2009 reply

WTF?

Smoltzie is the Braves.

This is an absolute shame.

We might as well trade Vasquez for prospects now and run the kids out there this year.

I have never been ashamed of being a braves fan until now.

Mikehd1200 - January 8, 2009 reply

My feelings exactly… I can’t think of a time when I’ve been more ashamed to wear a baseball cap with an ‘A’ on it…

unbearable

I cant watch any more guys this whole braves thing is making me sick to my stomach. I wont say fire wren or screw it all but I dont think I can handle seeing smoltz playing in another uniform. Thanks for all the good memories smoltz and good luck and I would have left after this fucked up off season to. ATTENTION MEMBERS OF THE UPPER BRAVES ORGANIZATION, GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER BECAUSE IF SMOLTZ IS LEAVING OVER A COUPLE OF MILLION YOU COULD HAVE GAVE HIM, YOUR FRANCHISE IS UP IN SMOKE AND WE NEED A NEW OWNER OR OLD ONE LIKE TED TURNER WHO WILL SPEND THE MONEY TO FIX THIS, QUIT FUCKING AROUND AND SITTING ON YOUR HANDS AND GET US SOME DAMN BALLPLAYERS.

bravesrbaseball - January 8, 2009 reply

ALL-CAPS!!!!!!!

Take a breath…

They can make this up to me if they go out and land Lowe and Dunn.

I think I was a bit better prepared for this because I had already learned yesterday that my favorite college football team was losing two of its best players.

Just had to take the Smoltz news in stride.

No that will not make up for it.

Sure it will.

Lowe and Dunn will give us a better chance to win more games in 2009 and beyond. Isn’t that what we’re trying to do? You play to win the game, right?

So....

Does that mean that you think that a Braves team with John Smoltz would win more games then the same Braves team with D. Lowe and Dunn (without Smoltz)? If so, you are beyond help.

sickening

that’s all it is.

at least I don’t hate the Red Sox so at least I can still watch Smoltz whom I don’t blame at all.

nuftjedi - January 8, 2009 reply

Ugh!

Every time we have missed out on a FA that we were targeting Wren has said “We still have money to spend and we still plan to use it”. But after so many swings and misses it’s become fairly obvious that we won’t be in the running for a division title this year. So why not give the Braves fans at least something to root for. If we have 25+ mil left to spend and no one else wants to be here why not pony up an extra 3 mil and keep Smoltz here?

Wren is proving to be disastrous to this franchise, not only for his tenure (that seems to be getting shorter by the second) but for many years to come.

In his short time as GM we have gone from one of the most respected franchises in sports to one that can’t GIVE money away.

If Wren tries to spin this as “just business” then JS needs to do the same and cut his losses. Wren needs to go before he does any more damage, if that’s possible.

Fischerking - January 8, 2009 reply

Even without Smoltz, the Braves are not finished. The day when Smoltz was no longer a Brave was eventually going to come. Everyone has to understand that. But we all seemed to take for granted that it was going to come in retirement, and not a jump to, of all places, Boston.

I love Smoltz as much as any Braves fan should, and I think he’s the rare exception type of player in which exceptions for keeping him should always be in play, no matter what. “Just business” is not going to cut it here. But as it happens so often, Boston is ponying up frivolous dollar amounts that is hard to ignore, by anyone. As the Furcal debacle has proven, it’s not over until the fat lady has sung, and Smoltz still claims to have his people call the Braves front office to finalize, which is another word of saying that they want one last counter-offer or else it’s done. I’d love to see the Braves offer some guaranteed money with a creative tier-based incentive system based on innings pitched, that would potentially beat out the Boston offer to keep him here, as well as protect themselves from injury risk. But that’s likely not going to happen, so despite myself, I’m going to have to accept the fact that Smoltzie’s bolting.

I encourage others to stop and think before posting further comments expressing hatred for Wren and the Braves front office. Yeah, the off-season has been disheartening to this point. Yeah, it sucks to lose Smoltz. Big time. More so when you think about all the money the team still hasn’t used, and could’ve easily used to cement Smoltz in place. But there are reasons why it hadn’t happened, other than Wren being incompetent.

• Smoltz is aging, and has shown a rash of injury problems. The Braves clearly want to avoid a season like last year, where 80% of team headlines started with “Atlanta injuries,” making plenty of people actually question what the team name was. Scary thing? Wait until next season when Chipper Jones is up for free agency, says he’s feeling good, and is doing candid interviews wondering why the Braves haven’t contacted him yet.
• Curt Schilling and Bartolo Colon were aged, right-handed aces with shoulder problems who quietly disappeared into the giant Boston black hole. If Smoltz wants to be next, that is his prerogative.
• Smoltz wants to win. Boston has been one of the upper echelon teams this decade, and have been wooing him with promises of winning, and money.
• Smoltz is divorced – and probably owes/owed a lot of money to his ex-wife. Padding the accounts while he still can this late in his career isn’t a bad idea, and Boston is offering a lot of guaranteed money while giving him incentive to earn even more.

I don’t advocate the loss of Smoltz the least bit, but at this rate, it’s possibly going to happen. But who really knows, other than Smoltz? It will suck hardcore to lose him, and it will likely make me feel nauseous the first time I see him in a Red Sox uniform (especially the crappy new ones). But I can never hate John Smoltz, and will always be thankful for all the great baseball memories that he gave to Braves fans everywhere. And even in this potentially abominable situation, the team still does come first. The Braves will not lose 162 games due to the loss of Smoltz – so stop acting like it will.

royhobbs - January 8, 2009 reply

My thoughts EXACTLY

I’m not gonna bash Wren until I know the full story and even then, maybe he wasn’t worth the risk. In November, Smoltz stated that he was ahead of schedule and that he was going to start throwing off a mound sometime in January. He said he would throw for 2 weeks and then he’d have a feel for where he stood for the upcoming season. Wren had previously mentioned that he and Smoltz had agreed to wait until late winter to decide on their plans on the upcoming season. Now we see that Smoltz was already seeking employment elsewhere at the winter meetings. I know it’s easy to roast Wren over this, but maybe, just maybe, Smoltz was ready to move on. It’s not by any means out of the realm of possibility.

what about the idea that even if the Braves do match Boston’s offer Smoltz might still go to Boston. realistically the Braves aren’t going to contend, barrring something in the unforseeable future, anytime soon. Smoltz would like another ring and Boston offfers that opportunity more than any other team. I am just as sad as anyone else that Smoltzie is leaving, but gun to my head if i was him i would leave as well.

Swo12bv - January 8, 2009 reply

I’ve made that same comment in another post. I just get the feeling that Smoltz was ready to move on. And I’ve had that feeling for awhile now.
If Wren signs Lowe and the Japanese dude, along with a SOLID left field stick and not some guy maxing out with 20 HR, then I won’t at all be disappointed in this offseason.

+1

I was gonna post my thoughts, but dammit, you nailed it hobbs. And i still hate the Red Sox. I don’t view the Braves offer as insulting, as i don’t think anything has changed since the last update. Smoltz wanted to pitch in the postseason again, and used this as his opportunity. Whats even worse is the thought that, right now, Dan Patrick is walking around with a hard-on.

10-4 - January 8, 2009 reply

Amen

It’s nice to read an intelligent, well reasoned response for a change. I too am sick to my stomach, mostly because Smoltz is possibly leaving but making matters worse is WHERE he is going. I just can’t stand to watch any game that involves Boston, or the Yankees for that matter, but with Smoltz on board I’m afraid I will have to force myself to watch. I certainly am not looking forward to that agony!

+1

Great post, as usual

Rhyno18 - January 8, 2009 reply

+1, way to balance logic with fandom.

cbwilk - January 8, 2009 reply

Thank goodness...

I’m glad I can always count on royhobbs to post something intelligent!

So true

I can’t wait for him to write a book.

Lizziebeth - January 8, 2009 reply

rec’d

Tonley - January 8, 2009 reply

In terms of the our 2009 record...

this just isn’t a big loss. Smoltz is an aging pitcher who has had multiple arm surgeries and managed less than 30 innings for us in 2008. Realistically, I don’t think he can be counted on to throw more than 80 or so innnings in 2009. So, say, 1-1.5 wins above replacement if he’s a dominant bullpen arm, with the downside being a complete implosion. I can understand getting steamed with Wren for some of the things he’s done, but this one doesn’t really hurt us from a performance standpoint.

Now, I get it, you guys are all very sentimental about Smoltz. That’s cool, I remember watching him pitch from the time I was five until the beginning of last season, so I understand how strange it will be for him to be elsewhere. But it’s not as though we traded him – he has decided to move on, maybe for more cash and maybe for another ring, and I don’t hold that against him.

As for all of these angry pitchfork-wielding “Wren is killing the team!” posts, I don’t quite know what to say. I think a dissection is in order.

“He has no vision or respect for the game.”

- I see no evidence of that. He may seem slightly dickish, but I think the Vasquez trade showed some vision, snapping up a durable, undervalued starting pitcher for a second or third tier prospect. As for his respect for the game, I didn’t know that was a requirement for being a successful GM.

“Giving a hall of famer a guranteed 2 million is a slap in the face to Smoltz and to all the fans that watched Smoltz’s career unfold here.”

- Nah. It does seem a little dickish as I said earlier, but Frank Wren is under no obligation to simply hand over money for folks who gave us great memories as Braves players. Consider the case of Andruw Jones, who we let walk after he made it abundantly clear that his skills were in a freefall. Were we obligated to offer him a deal just because he was critical to our success in the 90s? Hell no. 2 million up front is a solid deal for a guy with Smoltz’s injury history, and we got outbid by a team that can afford to overpay. It happens.

“For so many years, he gave back to the oranization by giving tremendous discounts and this is how we pay back his loyalty? We are sitting an unused pile of cash and we couldn’t match the much deserved offer from the Red Sox.”

- Geez, I didn’t realize he donated money to the team! In all seriousness, we have no idea what his motives were when he signed below value contracts to stay in Atlanta. If he decided to play in Atlanta for less 12 years ago, it was likely because the non-monetary compensation – playing on a dominant team with great friends and a beloved manager – were worth more than a few million extra. That’s not really “loyalty,” it’s a choice to play where one is happiest. I’m in a similar situation with my employer – I love the people I work with and I stay there for less, but it’s not out of loyalty to the business itself.

“We love you Smoltzie and we don’t blame you for your decision.”

- Couldn’t agree more.

“Frank Wren is a useless businessman who values nothing about the game and its players.”

- He’s also a poopymouth and has one of the worst cases of cooties I’ve ever seen. Seriously guys, if you don’t like how he runs the team fine, but let’s not presume that a GM is anything more than a high end corporate executive. Sure, they may have the best high end executive job out there, but their goal is to field a winning team while expending as few resources as possible.

I think what we have here, if I can make a television analogy, is a Dr. House argument. Both House and his team have the same goals – save patients lives – but House doesn’t have pure motives or a drop of sentimental feeling in his body. He doesn’t really care about the patients, they object, and that’s not the way things should be in a hospital. But in the end, he gets his job done. If you think Wren is a shitty GM for the moves he’s made going into 2009, that’s fine and if you make some good arguments I’ll respect that opinion. But nothing makes me foam at the mouth more than people making these stupid accusations that “GM/Team/Player X only cares about the money and has no loyalty to GM/Team/Player Y.” Teams show little loyalty to players, players show little to teams, etc. Hell, if one wished, one can make an argument that this is as much Smoltz being disloyal as the Braves. I’m not one of those folks, but you could make the case as strong as the one being made against Wren.

BraveBronco0121 - January 8, 2009 reply

All of what you say is true. But if we don’t spend the money that we have allotted for new contracts (or we invest them in poor decisions), I don’t see how this isn’t on Wren’s head. A lot of things have been out of his control, but this is completely within his grasp.

I’m not going to call him incompetent, but right now there’s preciously few things to root for on the 2009 team. And he’s yet to address most of the major needs of the off season. I’m fairly patient, but when thigs go this poorly in an offseason you have to start to wonder about the decision makers. Who knows, maybe in spring training he’ll have made his moves and all will be forgiven, but its not looking good right now; so yeah, I’ve supported him up to this point, but I’m thinking on sharpening that pitchfork and lining up the torches.

soup du jour - January 8, 2009 reply

I tend to agree...

Adam Dunn would fill our LF problem and probably for below market value. Why hasn’t he jumped on that one? Sheets and Lowe are still available and do not seem to be targets. There are a number of things about Wren that concern me, but the Smoltz issue isn’t one of them.

BraveBronco0121 - January 8, 2009 reply

The point about Andruw Jones was great. The Braves didn’t even offer to negotiate with him.

+1

For the House reference…

just trade Chipper now

You think he would be a fit for Boston? He might net us Buchholz and change. There’s no way he finishes his career in the NL anyways. Don’t make him suffer through the next two years here.

So long to the bearded Icon, I’ll always respect him.

apoxonbothyourhouses - January 8, 2009 reply

ummmm...

Chipper would get us MUCH more than Buchholz

Lars Anderson, Buchholz, and Michael Bowden would be a NICE haul for Chip.

then trade Kotchmann to the Royals for Alex Gordon. The Royals can put Teahan back at 3B where he belongs. We get REALLY young, but our infield is:

1B—Lars Anderson
2B—Kelly Johnson
SS-K. Escobar
3B-Alex Gordon

CF—Schafer
RF—Frenchy
LF—Blanco/Diaz (until Hernandez is ready)

while Anderson blocks Freeman, Freeman COULD be used to haul in a LF or young Pitcher.

rotation of :

Buchholz
Vazquez
JJ
Japanese name here
Campillo/Glavine

until Bowden is ready.

apoxonbothyourhouses - January 8, 2009 reply

That's a lot for one season of Chipper

But we can still get a “can’t miss” prospect for him. I wish FW would just write this season off, and not go all half-ass signing mediocre veteran players to make us semi-competitive. See what B. Jones, Schafer, Hanson can do in a full season. NO MORE TRADING OUR PROSPECTS! Not for some stop-gap like Xavier Nady.

Is everyone going mad?

I don’t understand why people are now talking about what we could get for Chipper. Is there no such thing as loyalty anymore? Sure we didn’t resign Smoltz but Chipper could have played elsewhere plenty of times for a lot more money but didn’t because he has loyalty to the Braves. He restructured his contract so that we could have money to be more competitive. The only way in hell you even THINK of trading Chipper is if he asks for it himself. And at least for now that isn’t the case.

Fischerking - January 8, 2009 reply

I see your points....

royhobbs, bobby c., bravebronco, and agree to many of them.

I’m just really, really sad.

really, really, really, really sad……

Of course you are…that was your boy! I think we are all sad today.

Rafael Belliard's SLG % - January 8, 2009 reply

I’ve expected the Liberty Media regime to go the direction of gutting the franchise ever since Selig engineered the Braves’ sale to bastards. Can’t imagine Smoltz didn’t see the same thing, and if he did, I can’t blame him for looking around rather than waiting for an offer that would never be forthcoming. Sure, Frank Wren is an arrogant, incompetent, contemptible, worthless little prick puffing out his puny chest right now, but he’s precisely the sort of soulless hack Liberty Media wanted.

Tokyokie - January 8, 2009 reply

I'm possibly setting myself up to be flamed...

But in a weird way, I’m almost relieved.

Don’t get me wrong, I am VERY disappointed, and shocked frankly. I think Atlanta’s offer was competitive enough that this was perhaps NOT about the money for Smoltz, but that cat will eventually be let out of the bag.

Anyway, Wren said at the beginning of the season that he would construct the team as if Smoltz was not going to pitch. Now it’s time for him to finish what he started.

Does anyone here really think that if Smoltz were to be brought back that they would do what they REALLY need to do and still 2 more starting pitchers?

This is from the official site: Now the Braves find themselves once again scrambling to fortify their suspect starting rotation. Late Wednesday night, it became evident that they will increase their efforts to land Derek Lowe, the top starting pitcher still available on the free-agent market. In addition, they remain hopeful that they’ll be able to land Kenshin Kawakami, a 32-year-old Japanese right-hander.

With Smoltz possibly not available until may, we would likely be counting on Morton, Reyes, or a rushed Hanson to fill those innings in addition to having a question mark like Glavine or Campillo in the rotation.

With the way this offseason’s gone this almost seems futile, but if this gets us closer to this rotation:

Lowe
Vazquez
Jurrjens
Kawakami
Glavine/Campillo/Morton/Reyes/Hanson

Then as much as it pains me to say it, it’s the best for the Braves long term. If I were GM I’d risk the $5MM to have Smoltz plugged in that #5 spot…but I can understand why it wasn’t risked.

“Then as much as it pains me to say it, it’s the best for the Braves long term. If I were GM I’d risk the $5MM to have Smoltz plugged in that #5 spot…”
I don’t understand… If I were a GM I’d ask myself… how do I make sure my job is secure. One answer could be, don’t sign injury riddled players. (Unless their name is John Smoltz, Chipper Jones or some other ‘face-of-the-franchise’). The other could be, what do the fans want… what puts people’s butts in seats. NOT signing Smoltz won’t add to Atlanta’s declining attendance.
John Smoltz SHOULD be the exception here. Why did Bobby want him in the club-house even though his arm was in a sling!? Value that cannot be put on a baseball card… That’s why faithful Braves fans are pissed with the complacency of this GM. Complacency and loyalty don’t make compatible mates…

what makes you confident that frank wren has the ability to sign big free agents such as lowe and kawakami (unless you consider Albert Belle a big free agent in 1999)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA ohhhhh albert

Well this sucks

What a way to start the day. Anyone else feel the five stages of grief? Read the headline and I think someone is playing a cruel joke on me. Next is anger. Fuck Wren for not paying enough, fuck Smoltzie for bolting, fuck the Red Sox for being dicks, etc. Bargaining. Can’t Wren just give a counteroffer now?! Depression. THE TEAM IS DOOOOONE. But I think I’ve hit acceptance.

Hate to see him go. And why did it have to be the Godawful Red Sox of all organizations? Well at least he’ll get a chance to play for a contender. Can’t hate my favorite Braves pitcher of all time. Time to put myself further on the Jair Jurrjens bandwagon. Gotta love those former Detroit pitchers.

I'm right there with you...

…we need to start a support group or something…

Sign me up

I need the help!

Well put.

Smoltz's Beard - January 8, 2009 reply

Oh My God, that's creepy!

I was thinking all those same things. It’s weird to think that us humans are all hard-wired to do certain things.

buzzdeadwax - January 8, 2009 reply

ICON!!

You don’t treat an Icon like this. We gave Mr. Glass (Hampton) all that money for how many years and we can’t give an Icon $4 or $5 mil?? He will bring in that much money in attendance. If Boston or anyone else is going to give him a chance after the injury, then the Brave should at the very least match this offer.
Again, Smoltz could have done a Mr. Glass act a million times as often as he played through pain. It’s a sad day. Wake up front office!

bravos - January 8, 2009 reply

it is possible that Smoltz just wants to play for contender, you know. Maybe even probable. More money might not do the trick….

Put the Glass Hampton situation into perspective-

How much did they offer Mike “The Glass-Man” Hampton!? 5 million for one year?! A guy who pitched 2 years and we knew he was an injury risk. How… why… do we offer the face of the organization, a leader in the clubhouse and a hall of famer, less than the guy who once took a deal in Colorado because “the schools are better”. The guy who was on the DL for 2 1/2-3 years got a better offer than the guy who set records and is the winningist pitcher in post season history!!! There is no question here. Frank Wren needs to try and salvage something for the fans… THE FANS… REMEMBER Mr. WREN!? The people who pay your paycheck…

Wrong

They offered Hampton who was actually healthy at the end of the year the same basic package. 2 million gaurunteed with reachable incentives.

Someone should check the details on this. But I heard it was higher than the offer he got from Houston. Regardless, putting Hampton and Smoltz in the same pay scale just doesn’t compute for me.

Smoltz was a Type B

Do we still get a draft pick? Or is that only if you offer arbitration?

Only if you offer arbitration.

Chipper

Watch him demand a trade now. And you know what, I wouldn’t blame him one bit.

You’re gay

Calling people gay and a fag always win arguments. Always.

10-4 - January 8, 2009 reply

You're gay

OOOOOOH!!!!! + INFINITY for me!

But seriously, what’s wrong with being gay? I have gay friends, and they seem to be perfectly happy with it.

buzzdeadwax - January 8, 2009 reply

Hmm

You have gay friends that are perfectly happy? Isn’t that a little bit redundant?

Fischerking - January 8, 2009 reply

Touche, good sir

buzzdeadwax - January 8, 2009 reply

What...

Are you 10 years old?

that poster is fucking gay.

gay, as in not cool. this is a fucking blog. you know what it means. we’re not pulling out websters here. the fucking troll poster is gay. Victor is a fucking faggot. he likes trolls, little boys and cocks in his mouth.
and yes, i’m 10 years old, so i feel threatened that pedophiles like victor and mvandonsei are on this site. fucking faggots.

Stay classy...

mvandonsel - January 9, 2009 reply

J.C. Bradbury's take on this Smoltz situation

Linky

About Smoltz:

I’ve heard him on the radio a few times assuring fans that he planned to stay.

That line hurts.

Oh yeah

Happy Birthday Jeff Francoeur!

I knew it had to be his fault somehow

lol

Swo12bv - January 8, 2009 reply

SIGN THIS

http://www.petitiononline.com/FireWren/petition.html

Let me get this straight..

First we refuse to deal for Peavy, I can’t say i blame Wren for not pulling the trigger, but in the same regard, if we’re not going to try and win in 09, when does Wren think we’re going to win, with Chipper being an FA next year? Then we go after an injury risk like Burnett, offer 80 mil, but turn up our nose to Lowe for 16 mil a season? Then we get the shaft in the furcal deal (I don’t blame Wren per say for this – just underhanded business deal), then we let Smoltz walk without a fight, I just don’t understand and I think if y’all have watched the offseason like I have, you’d be hard pressed to defend Wren’s dealings up to this point. He’s had no rhyme or reason for anything – so we got Vazquez, we still have no LF and pitching is still thin. I don’t think Wren’s the man for the job in ATL

trailblazerk5 - January 8, 2009 reply

I still defend Wren! He is doing whats best for the Braves for the present and the future. The glory days are gone and the faster we cut all ties with it the faster we can move onto the new generation.

How is he doing what is best?? He won’t even call up anyone from the minors and let them play. At this rate Schafer and them are still gonna be in the minors or traded to another team by 2015.

Lets see

By not getting tied up in bad contracts

By not trading away the future

By not letting sentiment get in the way of good business

BobbyAyalaFan4Life - January 8, 2009 reply

The world is not ending

From Tony Mazz in Boston: http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/01/lowe_to_meet_wi.html

Granted its a reaction to Smoltz leaving, but look on the bright side, maybe this wakes up Frank Wren to realize that you can’t just ASSUME someone is going to comeback because they are a lifer.

This stings a truck ton, but I don’t blame Smoltz. He wants one more shot at the post season and with the way Frank was handling this off season, he saw the writing on the wall. John will always be a Brave, hes just closing his career somewhere else.

cmdpsu15 - January 8, 2009 reply

This sucks

Not only does this end the true pitching era for our Braves, but this also makes me wonder if we’ll bother trying to resign Chipper next year… I can see the great run finally phasing out completely…here’s hoping we can get some pieces in place to begin another one. Makes you wonder what bobby cox is thinking right now too…retirement anytime soon anyone?
Aaron M.

We shouldn't

He’s a DH at this point, and his trade value goes nowhere but down from here.

This effectively ends the Braves era.

http://www.talkingchop.com/2008/12/10/688935/is-anything-sacred

Have to say I'm not suprised with the track record of our franchise

Bmacbandwagon - January 8, 2009 reply

Anyone watching MLB Network right now?

They are doing a recap of the 1995 season. What memories.

this off-season

has left me jaded, and its only January.

jug - January 8, 2009 reply

If we don't actually put up an offer...

I’m gonna say this is the team letting Smoltz leave to have a chance at winning one last time. Not Smoltz stabbing us in the back or Frank Wren being inept.

someguy917 - January 8, 2009 reply

Salary cap time

After thinking about this for awhile, that has become the thought that has entered my mind. I can’t blame Smoltz for leaving for a contract that is much better than the one the Braves offered, especially since he’s going to a contender. But on the other hand, I can’t blame Wren for not being comfortable with giving the kind of money Boston can afford to throw at him. Most teams can’t afford to gamble on throwing $5.5 mil at a guy whose shoulder could fall off at any moment.

In today’s baseball market, it has really become a case of the haves and have-nots. The LA and New York teams, along with Boston can afford to throw money at free agents and take risks no one else can afford to. A salary cap would at least level the field somewhat.

Rhyno18 - January 8, 2009 reply

No.

Salary caps are bad news.

For so many reasons.

List them.

Rhyno18 - January 8, 2009 reply

everyone going crazy over this is pretty funny.

he’s 41 and coming off major shoulder surgery. dale murphy was ATLANTA too, and he got TRADED. seriously, get over itl

+1

And at the time I hated seeing Glavine wearing a Mets uni and Maddux wearing one for the Cubs but it’s baseball. The idea that we “give” ANY one millions of dollars for sentimental reasons is just ridiculous.

WienerDog - January 8, 2009 reply

Go suck your dad’s dick

and murphy is getting fucked out of the HOF for that

results are out tomorrow. you know he’s screwed. you don’t think it matters, but it does.
Murphy was far better than ripken, mattingly, and dawson. who gets the votes? not murphy. Writers think he stuck around too long. They look at his philly/colorado days and think his career was unfinished.
Smoltz won’t get screwed out of cooperstown, no matter what happens in boston. the point is that management has no loyalty to the players. Who would want to play for an organization like this. They won’t PAY the free agents and they won’t keep the players they have. They’ll always be stuck with leftovers and NEVER again get the prom queen.

A more optimistic way of looking at this

John knows any pitch could be his last. Instead of sticking the Braves with 5.5 million for what could be fewer pitches than he threw last year, he’s taking the money from someone else. A final gift from a guy who has given so much to us. Maybe the Red Sox will be smart enough to save him for October, and he’ll strike out Teixeira when it counts, and Boston will remember him fondly evermore.

But on the way to the park maybe he gets stuck in Boston’s horrific street traffic and then he sees the delay was caused by one of those homersexshal weddings they have in those parts. John will wince, ask Jesus if He’s trying to tell him something, whistle a few bars of “Georgia on My Mind”, and vow that if his arm has any pitches left in it for 2010 he’ll throw his last one for the Braves, who by then will be contenders again.

JimK - January 8, 2009 reply

This

Is borderline offensive.

only borderline, though....

….I like the gist of what he is saying….

Sid Bream's Moustache - January 8, 2009 reply

I can get down with this

This is all part of his master plan

Hopefully......

We see a report that Smoltz has resigned with the Braves after their counter offer of Red Soxs’ faxed term sheet.

Hopefully, we can get SOMETHING out of this offseason to give us hope for the season. Vasquez was a nice addition, but if we don’t get some more help soon we are looking at a long season.

dragonhawk26 - January 8, 2009 reply

okay...

…why don’t you go work on that?

sorry...

…this was supposed to be a reply to the comment below….

Stephen in the UAE - January 8, 2009 reply

FIIRE FRANK WREN

This truly sucks and its hard to take. We need a Fire Frank Wren website….

okay...

…why don’t you go work on that?

THIS SUCKS

SayHeyWerd - January 8, 2009 reply

...

Baseball is my life and john smolts is my favorite player… But now I can’t ever see him pitch againg

Smoltz - January 8, 2009 reply

he’s your favorite player, and you spell his name wrong. treeeeeeeeeeeemendous.

also, theres this great invention called “MLB.TV” that lets you watch any team’s games. look into it. plus, boston is on ESPN about 3 times a week

Bigjoe you are such a fucking doucher

The 10 year old strikes again!

what the FUCK is a doucheR?

and what in the name of god was so wrong about what i said?

how about this. you’re an overreacting psychopath

Google doucher. You’ll probably see a picture of yourself you fucking faggot.

wow...just wow

you’re like a 12 year old.

And you are a teabagger faggot

Also, the north and all people from there suck.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

I mean, wow. Get a fucking grip.

maybe you should, you know, not cheer for a football team from the north. just a thought

good call

ravens do suck. but so does pittsburg. you’re both faggots (jj & joe)