Talking Chop

He hurt himself sliding into the wall on the left field foul line.

Euruproktos - January 13, 2009 reply

Wren set out to get two starting pitchers

And he got three. Cautiously, I say yes.

WHOA, i didnt even notice we signed lowe.

i approve of this.

lowe
vazquez
kawakami
jurrjens
THE SOLE SURVIVOR

and if hudson makes it back this season…wheeeeeeeee doggy

PriceMultiCyYoungs - January 13, 2009 reply

+1

Think abuot 2010

Hudson
Lowe
Jurjjens
Vasquez
Hanson

That looks like the best staff in baseball to me

jsmall404 - January 13, 2009 reply

Kaz
Shields
Price
Garza
Sonny/Wade Davis

this is the best rotation in baseball in 2010

Dont ruin our hopes, stay on your own site...But you are probably right dammit

dabraves - January 13, 2009 reply

I think it’s all relative. If at the beginning of the offseason this is where Wren went first, I’d be disappointed. But given now everything that has transpired, I’m ecstatic.

coldriver10 - January 13, 2009 reply

I’ve got to admit…I’m pretty excited about this rotation. KK is obviously a pretty huge wildcard, but I’m confident that Campillo can fill in the #5 slot. Even when he struggled in July and August he was able to keep his walk rate down (Sept it spiked slightly, however).

The possibility of adding Hudson and Hanson later on in the year is really something.

another thing we’re overlooking: lowe & vazquez eat innings like sabathia eats hohos. this is gonna let boyer not pitch in 80 games this year, and let him be more effective. PHEW

exactly my sentiments.

I do, however fear kawakami dead arm late in the season. It happened to Dice-K, so I can only assume he might hit the wall come august.

mrsoprano - January 13, 2009 reply

and by that time, hudson and or KING THOMAS should be ready

Tommy’s on the cover of the new Baseball America. That’s gonna look sweet signed and framed on my wall!

right next to your kerry ligtenberg 8×10?

I think it would look best next to his Titanic movie poster signed by Celine Dion.

coldriver10 - January 13, 2009 reply

hahahahaha

+10

mvandonsel - January 13, 2009 reply

+1

I actually have a Chop Talk magazine signed by Ligtenberg and Mike Cather up on my wall.

I hope that’s just a case of you having a lot of wall space.

gondeee - January 13, 2009 reply

What!?! That’s one of my favorites. They’re coming out of the back of an ambulance with all the gear and the caption is something like “Ligtenberg and Cather bring relief to the Braves”. It’s so ridiculous. Cat said Ligtenberg was pissed the whole time they were doing the photo shoot, he thought it was the dumbest thing ever. So did Cat, but he was like, “Whatever, I’m on the cover.”

I’ve always wanted Kerry Ligtenberg’s lightning bolt facial hair.

Not only did he have those, but he had a rocking mullet.

Glad we signed Kawakami/Lowe

But I want to smack that stupid hat off Smoltzie’s head.

FrankyWren - January 13, 2009 reply

I'm excited for three reasons

1. We now can leave Hanson alone to work out that FB rate in the minors. Extra seasoning is almost always a good thing.

2. We don’t have to rely on Campillo/Morton/Reyes for anything more than #5 starter stuff.

3. Depth! Lowe and Vazquez will eat innings like the cookie monster eats cookies and the rest of our depth is young(er) and hopefully less susceptible to injury.

scstrato - January 13, 2009 reply

Actually

It’s already been established that Lowe and Vazquez will eat innings like sabathia eats hohos.

Things are looking much better in BravesNation!

+1

Good to see you back.

Thanks

I’ve been lurking but things have been a bit depressing until the past couple days.

HEY

THATS MY LINE. DON’T GIVE HIM CREDIT FOR IT

You should have put it in bold.

oh shoot....

I thought you said HOBOS, and I was like man why would CC eat a hobo, but then I reread it…

mvandonsel - January 13, 2009 reply

+1

Language issue for Kawakami

I doubt he is fluent in English – I believe he can only introduce himself for a couple of words, then start speaking Japanese.
Hope he can understand what his catcher is saying on the hill in the game…

dragonsfanatic - January 13, 2009 reply

Mac will only need to learn three or four phrases

“Chill out homie …”
“You OK?”
“Think Bobby is asleep on the bench again? You have a better angle from the pitcher’s mound.”

FrankyWren - January 13, 2009 reply

Shuuto!!

Yakker - January 13, 2009 reply

Love the signing

Nothing Burnett-spectacular about our rotation, but durability counts, and we mitigate the Burnett-style injury implosion from this rotation. Keep pounding those balls into the ground. Wouldn’t mind the Braves signing O-Hud or making a no-risk trade for Adam Kennedy, as discussed here. Sure, they suck one worse than bigjoe (BJ?) with the bat, but they’ll provide excellent defense for low cost.

This, of course, is provided Kelly can stick in left. With that line-up, you’ll really be counting on bounceback years from Kelly, Kotch, and Francoeur, and hope that something nice happens in center (oh Jordan, where art thou?). That (minus Frenchy) is a nice small ball, high OBP lineup. Is it ideal? No? Can it work? Maybe…we’ve seen it with the Twins, Angels, Dodgers, et al…hope springs eternal!

jc25 - January 13, 2009 reply

Are you hoping

For the Brian Jordan comeback tour? Because I know I am.

Re

Can we get on the Ken Caminiti comeback tour?

Umm, too soon?

jc25 - January 13, 2009 reply

Ryan Klesko for LF!!!!

Rhyno18 - January 13, 2009 reply

no, its funny because ken caminiti is dead.

I can't vote in the poll

I am neither happy nor sad about this. I could say I am cautiously optimistic. We don’t know how Kawakami will do or how Lowe will hold up as he ages.

BullManUGA - January 13, 2009 reply

+1 for the rotation

-1 for the picture

sddbaker - January 13, 2009 reply

With Lowe and Kawakami the rotation is looking better so….

wait…is that…Smoltz…with a…Red Sox hat?

BALARGBARLGBALRBALDFABALRBAGB WREN SUCKS BLARGBLARGBLARGBLARGBLARGBLARG!!!

Tonley - January 13, 2009 reply

<^>

sdp - January 13, 2009 reply

Is that an emoticon giving the bird or a one-eyed frog?

Tonley - January 13, 2009 reply

Both.

sdp - January 13, 2009 reply

Is this Smoltz’s wife?

beeniez - January 13, 2009 reply

i don’t get it.

10-4 - January 13, 2009 reply

lol

sdp - January 13, 2009 reply

The rotation looks servicable...

But it’s nothing to get ecstatic over. Lowe and Vazquez will eat up innings, but they aren’t consistent enough to be the type of frontline starters that carry you into the postseason. Kawakami is an unknown quantity. You’re counting on another solid performance from JJ, and whatever you can cobble together for the 5 hole.

With the offense that they are going to trot out, this is still a 85-90 loss team. Without the overpriced rotation adds, they lose 95-100.

So, am I happy and/or excited about the rotation? No. Not really.

dude, look at lowe’s line since coming to LA. how is that not CONSISTENT?

54-48 at LA in 4 years

212 innings, 141 K’s, 3.75 ERA…

Sure, he’s consistent. Consistently good even. Perhaps I should have said consistently great. As in the type of great that takes a losing ballclub into the postseason. Same with Vazquez. He’s consistent, but is it the kind of consistent you want?

Frenchy was pretty consistent last year, by the way.

Thanks for quoting his win/loss record. Now I know that I can ignore everything you say in the future.

Is someone's record not relevant?

You told me to look at his line. I did. I even pointed out the relevant facts… like his most productive years were in Boston as evidenced by his 54-48 mark playing against what has been the worst division in baseball the last few years.

The mere fact that you want it to be a great signing does not make it so. You can ignore this fact all you wish. It’s still overpaying for an aging #2 that you are going to trot out as a #1.

Can you tell me why this is a great move?

Is it too much to ask people to understand that most of the time there are literally a dozen other players involved in whether or not a pitcher receives a W, L, or ND…and that judging said pitchers performance on his W/L record is completely fucking stupid?

If you can’t understand that then I’m not going to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise.

A lot does go into getting a W. Hudson is a prime example. But, the facts are these: Lowe played in a weak division. His team had a solid to good bullpen (Saito & Broxton), and little offense. That sounds a lot like the Braves in their current form. And his stats were those of a #2. Coming into the East and being placed in the rotation as a #1 does not bode well for his chances, in my opinion, which you can feel free to ignore entirely.

I agree that facing the East is a lot different than facing the West. What does being the nominal #1 starter have to do with it, though?

Matchups

At least at the start of the season are predicated on rotation slots. Beyond that, not much unless you make the postseason.

I'm confused

You mean matchups like who starts? Beyond the basic lefty-righty matchups?

As has been stated more times than I can count over the last couple of days…being slotted into the #1 role means shit except the first run through and the playoffs (if we even get there). Once the season is underway the rotation will get fucked one way or another.

If we can have some god damn luck with injuries we’ve got a bullpen that is every bit as good as theirs was. We’ve had a better team OPS than the Dodgers for seven years in a row, and as long as we can acquire a serviceable cleanup hitter I see no reason why our team offense would be shockingly worse than last season.

Oh, he also had a better FIP than Brandon Webb and Jake Peavy last season…so called “aces” who play in the same weak division..

Acquire a serviceable cleanup hitter?

As in? Not Dunn. Please tell me it’s not Dunn. I can’t stand the thought of watching Dunn & Frenchy swat at balls all season long.

Man, you signed up for the wrong Braves blog.

I also think Schuerholz & Mazzone are overrated...

and rode on the coattails of 3 HOF pitchers, as evidenced by not developing another “can’t miss” pitcher in a dozen years. Oh, and I also think Bobby Cox and the postseason go together like oil and water.

If that makes me a bad person, then so be it.

And the point of bringing this up is…?

I’m not questioning your person, because we’re all entitled to our opinions, but I’m just making a comment, remarking your miraculous ability to have gone completely against almost all the recent popular opinions here in a matter of like 10 posts.

Popular opinion is sometimes overexuberant

If I’ve completely gone against popular opinion, it must be because I don’t worship at the altar of John, Bobby, and Frank. I apologize for my skepticism, but it is what it is. Just to summarize what I’ve tried to convey sans sarcasm:

1) The Lowe acquisition does not make the Braves a contender. If anything, they are just treading water… and spending millions to do it. Now, you have aging inning-eaters. At some point, it seems like those innings will catch up with a pitcher. And it is suspicious to me that no official offer from any team looking for starting pitching was really close to what the Braves signed Lowe for.

2) Adam Dunn is an intriguing piece, but by no means is he what is missing from the lineup. You don’t need a cleanup hitter that is three times as likely to walk or strikeout than make contact at all. Especially a team that had such a hard time with runners in scoring position last year. He would be an upgrade in the outfield considering what we have right now, but it depends on what you have to give up to get him.

3) I’m an ass. Okay, so popular opinion may be right every now and again.

What would I do instead? Sit and wait. Restructure some contracts that are currently on the books as part of a reverse deferral, paying a larger percentage of the deals now while you have the money burning a hole in your pocket. That will free up money down the road when a more appealing crop of free agents hit the market. Take your lumps now. Get some of the young guys some action to see if they really have what it takes. Then, you might be ready to compete at an elite level again in three years or so.

I want the Braves to be at the top of the East again. But, I think the Teix debacle and the way this off-season has played out has set the organization back a few notches that high-priced acquisitions won’t fix. It needs to be fixed with youth and the next batch of all-stars. Not overspending on your third choice.

On the internet, everyone's an ass

Anonymity often breeds courage.
Popular Opinion ≠ Your Opinion, necessarily.

I admire you taking the time to elaborate your opinion, and naturally not everyone is going to agree, but that’s unavoidable. It’s just a question of whose going to vocal about it. Because in the end, you nailed it, everyone here just wants the Braves to be on top.

Yeah, well…that’s just, like…your opinion, man.

People who say don't spend the money...

Having looked at the stock market lately, if the Braves don’t tie up this money Liberty Media is not going to let us get our hands on it again.

someguy917 - January 13, 2009 reply

i think you've stumbled upon bigjoe's ultimate foil

jc25 - January 13, 2009 reply

i’m seriously baffled

…how in the fuck is dunn walking a BAD THING?

He hits for a low average…

Dunn walking is not bad

It’s just not the attribute you necessarily need in a cleanup hitter.

imarealist - January 14, 2009 reply

yeah, its that whole power thing. which last i checked, dunn has in spades

bigjoe - January 14, 2009 reply

As long as they swat a few, I’m okay with it.

We’re finished here. Despite the fact that we’re most likely going to have to fill that need via trade due to our budget, I’m not going to continue a conversation with someone who can’t understand the value of Adam Dunn.

Good day sir, and enjoy living in that box of yours.

+1

Dunn hatred is a fast track to hell in these parts…

mburris1 - January 13, 2009 reply

He’s no Adam Kennedy…

The hell you say …

scstrato - January 13, 2009 reply

yeah, its not as if adam dunn was on base 10% more than francoeur last season

90 losses?

Perhaps change your handle to imapessimist…

How many did the team have last year?

Let's see

90. Your point?

And the team has improved?

This team has the worst outfield in baseball. There are only two legit, all-star-caliber bats in the line-up (Chipper & McCann), and Chipper will miss 1/3 of the season with some unbelievable injury. The Braves have rarely had an actual lead-off hitter to set the table when there were solid bats to drive them in, and they likely won’t again this year. Maybe I am pessimistic, but I don’t see how this team is going to compete this year with the Mets, the Phillies, and the Marlins who all boast at least similar rotations and better offenses.

2008 Aggregates

Most of the pitching metrics were at or below league average, the opposite is true for offense. I’m optimistic that an improvement in the rotation, which I think we have, improves our chances.

And the OF is still a work in progress…I hope.

Hope for the OF

Yes plz

“lead off hitter to set the table”

blanco “set the table” pretty fucking well last year.second on the team in walks. SECOND.

what would you have wren to do?

wren just acquired 3 guys that could , combined, throw 600 innings of 4.00 era baseball with about 500 K’s. considering our pitching staff had a 4.46 combined era, this is a much needed improvement. B+ for frank wren thus far. if he could somehow flip prado and soriano for nady, trade francoeur for a few high prospects, and acquire dunn/abreu with the extra cash, i would open-mouth kiss our new gm.

seriously, with soriano’s instability, we dont need his 6 million dollar contract.

ryan c - January 13, 2009 reply

How do you see Soriano as having any trade value right now? Like you said, he’s getting paid pretty well and he’s coming off of an injured season.

Frenchy has no value

In fact, he might have negative value at this point.

We agree

This is the dumbest time to trade Francoeur.

someguy917 - January 13, 2009 reply

well....

soriano has an established reputation of being a dominant reliever. mariano rivera cant be around forever. they need some extra relief help and also need a utility infielder. prado and soriano both fit that bill.

by the way, has anyone else noticed that smoltz looks different? he looks like he dyed his facial hair a darker color. maybe it’s good we didnt re-sign jean smoltz.

ryan c - January 13, 2009 reply

Currently 300-60

This is a rout. Secondly, I didn’t even know that 360 members even existed.