From K-Ros:
Furcal, the top free-agent shortstop on the open market this year, has decided to sign with the Dodgers, major-league sources say. Furcal had been debating for the last two days between the Dodgers and the Braves.
The Dodgers and Furcal were still hammering out an agreement Wednesday afternoon, sources said, but the Braves had been informed that Furcal would not accept their deal.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that Rafael Furcal is now persona non grata to Atlanta Braves fans. Whether it was him or his agents who led the Braves down this wrong turn we may never know, but either way I'm not surprised. This is the way our off-season has been, why should it change? But hey, maybe this is a blessing in disguise, I don't see how right now, but that's what I'm telling myself. Remember, Furcal was really just the means to make another move, he wasn't the real hitter we needed this off-season.
More from the D-Fab blog:
Just talked to Frank Wren, and they are not happy with the agent. Said there was an agreement, to the point of the Braves sending over the term sheet on Tuesday for Kinzer/Furcal to sign after agreeing to all the points Monday night. They never returned the term sheet.
“I think you have to be upset with the turn of events and the way,” Wren said. “We usually don’t do business this way. You don’t expect people you have to deal with to do business that way.”
Upset... yeah.
0 recs | 107 comments
How frustrating is it now?
At the beginning of the pursuit of Peavy, the Braves were willing to trade Escobar under the premise they could go after Furcal to replace him at SS. Now Furcal isn’t signing with the Braves because he potentially would be playing 2B to keep Escobar at SS. I think at this point, the Braves have to swallow their pride and see what it would take to get the Peavy deal done. This is a pretty shameful offseason and it seems like agents are just using the Braves now to up the price of their clients. If you told me the Braves would be reduced to a bargaining chip 10 years ago, I’d have told you that you were crazy.
AuditDawg - December 17, 2008
Well, the last thing I want to see the Braves do is crawl back to the Padres and beg them to trade them Peavy. It didn’t work out before, I doubt it will work out now.
gondeee - December 17, 2008
I concur. There is no way we should go back to Towers asking for Peavy. I think this is a sign that we should take a rebuilding year this year and see what we got after this season. I didn’t like the Furcal acquisition at all anyway. Didn’t make a whole lot of sense. Perhaps it prevented Wren from making another terrible move that he may have had lined up.
BravesFan - December 17, 2008
As an A's fan
I can feel your pain.
I hope Furcal drops off the face of baseball, or we will see this chit happening with other players.
HuskerFan - December 17, 2008
I personally wish him the best
mvandonsel - December 17, 2008
-1000
Go join the Dodgers board if you want to ride Fookie’s cock
Rhyno18 - December 17, 2008
-1000 for being a dick.
mvandonsel - December 17, 2008
+1 GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE
bigjoe - December 17, 2008
Thanks!
Apparently I only have 999 more to make up!
mvandonsel - December 17, 2008
Uhh, +999?
jc25 - December 18, 2008
No, no - "Fookie's Cock" is a new ride at Disneyland
The cars are shaped like roosters.
buzzdeadwax - December 18, 2008
Not near as funny as BIG JOE SUCK ONE, but I’m sigging that anyway.
Rhyno18 - December 18, 2008
I must have missed the whole “BIG JOE SUCK ONE” fiasco. I’ll assume it was vulgar and hilarious.
Smoltz's Beard - December 18, 2008
some guy who barely spoke english competently, and after a post where i trashed him, tried to rip on me…his insult?
BIG JOE SUCK ONE
bigjoe - December 18, 2008
need…link…now…
Smoltz's Beard - December 18, 2008
Look, I know that it seems like it’s an hourly occurrence where someone tells bigjoe to suck on something, but at least TRY and use the search function, you n00b.
royhobbs - December 18, 2008
Some of us actually have real jobs. You don’t fool any of us, we know that you are in your parent’s basement posting in your underwear.
Smoltz's Beard - December 18, 2008
just like a sabernerd would.
TALKING CHOP – the intelligent ones here live in mom’s basement
bigjoe - December 18, 2008
I saw that thread, so not sure how I missed that gem. The funniest part about it is the post he is talking about bigjoe making was his post about Joe Borchard.
Smoltz's Beard - December 18, 2008
man…everyone taking that seriously was EPIC. absolutely EPIC
bigjoe - December 18, 2008
Hahaha
A disgusted stat guy once said:
“This information took me all of fifteen minutes for me to gather and present this information…”
royhobbs - December 18, 2008
Point taken.
Smoltz's Beard - December 18, 2008
3502 posts on this forum
Who is in their draws in Mom’s basement?
Mike de La Hoz - December 18, 2008
your point?
Smoltz's Beard - December 18, 2008
Shit, I’ve exceeded 5,000 cumulative posts. Not bad
from behind a desk during work hoursin my underwear in my mom’s basement.royhobbs - December 18, 2008
i’ve over 5600. i live at home, BUT NOT IN THE BASEMENT!!! i get more than enough vitamin D, thanks
bigjoe - December 18, 2008
I'm with you
I don’t like what he did, but I don’t seriously wish him any physical harm by any means. Yeah, it stunk what happened to the Braves, but many forget to look at his scenario – he’s got a wife and a 3-year old; uprooting them, should be no such surprise for baseball players, but if it could be avoided, they would. The Dodgers are paying him similarly to what the other teams offered, but for less time, but it buys him at least two more years in LA, where he can potentially test the free agent waters again in 2011, and then decide whether or not to uproot his family.
I pull the family card out a lot, yeah, but call me naive, I think it’s one of those non-statistical factors that shows that could show that there is still a modicum of humanity and goodness that can still exist in baseball.
royhobbs - December 18, 2008
…he’s got a home in atlanta. and its not like the kid is in school with a social life.
bigjoe - December 18, 2008
The kid was born in 2006 after he shipped off to Los Angeles. I’m just sayin’, parents can be particular about uprooting their kids, regardless of their ages. And wives can be heavily influential on their ballplaying spouses. (see: Burnett, A.J.)
royhobbs - December 18, 2008
I feel for you guys more, because you have Bobby Crosby. At least this move was mostly a superfluous move.
Not that it makes me feel any better about it…
soup du jour - December 17, 2008
If sending a term sheet to a player truly is universal for “we have a deal,” it might very well hold up in court – even if he didn’t sign it. I wouldn’t be surprised if some kind of grievance is filed if he ends up in LA. I remember reading about this thing in my law class – I think it’s called an implied contract.
beeniez - December 17, 2008
I just posted a fanshot about that
scottyboy10 - December 17, 2008
doubt that would result in value
I don’t claim to know about the legal liability of his negotiations, but I doubt that the dodgers would be held responsible. Even if we could hold rafael to the agreement, I wouldn’t want him if he wants to play elsewhere
cirela20 - December 17, 2008
My guess would be the player and the agent with some kind of money compensatory. Hey, more money to spend in the offseason!
beeniez - December 17, 2008
Can't Hold Rafael to the Agreement
13th Amendment. No specific performance on employment contracts.
Uncle Charlie - December 18, 2008
Would anyone be suprised
to see Furcal take a pitch in the back if he is healthy when we play the Dodgers? I wouldn’t.
scottyboy10 - December 17, 2008
I hope not.
He put in a lot of solid years while here in Atlanta.
mvandonsel - December 17, 2008
And he stabbed us in the back TODAY.
(That is if it went down the way it appears to have….)
secondbass - December 17, 2008
Perhaps it was him, maybe his agent is to blame. I don't know.
But, it is a business and I can’t wish that upon any ball player
mvandonsel - December 17, 2008
A little beanball never hurt anybody. That’s one of the worst changes in the game, that guys don’t police each other anymore. I was lucky enough to meet Bob Gibson a couple of years ago and talked to him about hitting guys, or at least making them think you’ll hit them, and all the ways it’s positive both for a pitcher and the game. Pretty interesting stuff and hard to argue it didn’t help his career.
cbwilk - December 18, 2008
I'm not saying I want it to happen
just that I wouldn’t be suprised.
scottyboy10 - December 17, 2008
True
mvandonsel - December 17, 2008
Yeah....
I’m not saying I want it to happen either, but I’ll boo like crazy if I’m there to do it…..
secondbass - December 17, 2008
Bean him.
And his agents. Players get smoked for much less than crawfishin’ a whole organization and fan base. The least we can do is make him eat some red threads.
Mark Lempke - December 17, 2008
I’m tired of all the bull shit that comes with the off-season, the hot stove over-blows every conversation and all we do is get our hopes up for no reason
cirela20 - December 17, 2008
Who agrees...
… that Furcal will get a hefty round of boos when LA comes to Atlanta? I think I might have to go there and do it myself.
sdp - December 17, 2008
Yeah, its petty.
But I would too, especially the way this offseason is going.
soup du jour - December 17, 2008
I just posted that I'd boo
and then I saw this. So, yeah, me too!
secondbass - December 17, 2008
if only braves fans knew what the fuck was going on half the time. the NAPA CAP SHUFFLE gets more of a reaction than a home run
bigjoe - December 17, 2008
I beg to differ...
sddbaker - December 17, 2008
Probably depends on where you sit.....
I got some season tickets off a doctor guy I know, and the people around us were absolutely clueless. One was a publisher taking out a client looking to get his book published. The louder the crowd got, the louder the book conversation got – it was horrible.
I sat in the 400s section somewhere once with the best group ever….paid like 8 or 12 dollars for tickets, sat in the upper section, but was surrounded by people who were into the game.
secondbass - December 17, 2008
I’m sure the book conversation was enthralling.
BravesFan - December 17, 2008
Get that guy’s number for me. I got a book.
cbwilk - December 18, 2008
+1
gondeee - December 17, 2008
Sad but true
And the further the Braves fall out of playoff contention, the fewer the crowds become, and the dumber the ones who do show up are.
Oh well, Pujols bless the southern women who still show up in the heat of summer.
royhobbs - December 18, 2008
See i would think the diehards would still come and the fair-weather’s would not.
10-4 - December 18, 2008
I went to 35 Atlanta games last year. Personally, I enjoy it when nobody’s there, because I can essentially sit wherever I want after a while.
royhobbs - December 18, 2008
or you could just buy a 4 dollar ticket and stand in the chophouse and pay for even further overpriced food & beverage (11 bucks for a hot dog and chips. fuuuuuuuck).
bigjoe - December 18, 2008
Yeah, we went to a weeknight game against the Rockies and ended up right by the dugout, able to look in.
10-4 - December 18, 2008
I'm sure he will, but...
remember, he probably was not too happy that the Braves sent him packing without so much as making an offer; rumors said otherwise, but there never was a solid offer. Also, FW needs to suck it up and remember that these agents are also lawyers, so you can’t believe anything they say. Get it in writing! All in all, I’m one who is happy we didn’t get him. Give Yunel a long term deal with the money or keep searching for SP or a LF that can hit with power.
BBFAN46 - December 18, 2008
Not disappointed at all
In Furcal’s last full season, his OPS was under .700. Is that the kind of production you want to spend $10 mil per season on? I’d vote NO, especially when you factor in a recent back injury, and mediocre defense (at least compared to Yunel). If the idea is to strengthen the infield defense, FW should try to sign Orlando Hudson – he’s a superior hitter to Furcal, and superior defensive 2B, at roughly the same price.
buzzdeadwax - December 17, 2008
I've said that a couple of times on here.
But I don’t know if he is worth the $$$$$$.
mvandonsel - December 17, 2008
Disagree
Why are the Braves so anxious to add a 2B? Johnson and Escobar is a pretty good middle infield (average defensively, above average offensively). The Braves should add a power-hitting OF.
Sign Hudson? — marginal value offensively, and forces Johnson to LF, where he’s below-average offensively. Why not sign Dunn/Burrell? Better than Hudson on offense, and keep the middle infield of Johnson/Escobar.
Or… trade Escobar, Tim Hudson (plus 2009 salary relief), Gorkys, Rohrbough (and other prospects?) to the A’s for Holliday, Duchscherer, and Crosby. Holliday more than makes up for the hit the Braves take offensively at SS, and Crosby’s a good defensive SS. Duchscherer improves the Braves’ rotation.
Uncle Charlie - December 18, 2008
I’m not advocating signing O. Hudson
But why would the A’s trade Holliday now? And why would they take Hudson when he won’t pitch until September? If signing O. Hudson makes no sense, then this deal is a real stinker, in my opinion.
buzzdeadwax - December 18, 2008
Wren said yesterday on Shanks that Furcal was really the only person they had an eye on that would move Kelly to LF.
10-4 - December 18, 2008
Furcal is Dead To Me
I already didn’t like him now I hope that he is BOOED any game he plays in Atlanta. This is insane after this type of embarrassment the Braves have to make a big splash now to show that we are still a force.
TMAC85 - December 17, 2008
From MLBTR:
That’s bush.
Smoltz's Beard - December 17, 2008
indeed
good riddance to the furcal move only would only have been worth while if their was a move involving johnson for pitching afterward, Ben Sheets in ’09!
cirela20 - December 17, 2008
Personally, I would love to see the Dodgers back out of it and not sign him
Then watch Kinzer crawl back to the Braves and say that we had a “gentleman’s agreement” that we need to honor. Then we kick him to the curb. I can almost guarantee that next time his contract runs out, no one will negotiate with him unless he gets a new agent.
scottyboy10 - December 17, 2008
you gotta be kidding
wow i cant say i’m shocked but i’m let down once again
aint it funny how Furcal went from flying to Atl. for his physical to sign with us to letting the Braves down once again?
This aint Wren’s fault we’ve done all we could and come up short one to many times, i think by the end of this week we’ll make a move.
bravesfan1047 - December 17, 2008
in all honesty, i’m glad we didn’t get him, because we don’t need him.
his agents are bush though. do they represent anyone else that we might have a vague interest in signing?
bigjoe - December 17, 2008
K-Rod!
scstrato - December 17, 2008
Oops
missed the “interest in signing part!”.
scstrato - December 17, 2008
word on DOB's blog is he reps Escobar.
if this is true then the chances of him ever signing anything besides renewals and year-to-year deals with the Braves is about 99%, and the chances of him being traded are now over 9000
Rafael Belliard's SLG % - December 17, 2008
I’ve heard that too, but I think it may be a mix-up, since that mamagement firm represents Alex Escobar. I see Alex listed as a client on the firm’s website, but no mention of Yunel.
Rhyno18 - December 18, 2008
i read a thing posted about this (MLBTR?) and the only brave represented by these 2 is moylan, and last i checked, he’s under our control for another 3 years, and by that time, will probably have been overworked into obscurity
bigjoe - December 18, 2008
oh by the way.
LA’s offer was 3/33. ours was 3/30. theirs has an option for 13 mill on the 4th year that theres no chance they will accept. they’re also gonna be paying him 13 million in the third year, which is definitely LOLworthy. ned coletti strikes again.
bigjoe - December 17, 2008
LOLworthy indeed…
sddbaker - December 17, 2008
I think the 4th year is a player option year, which essentially makes it a 4 year deal.
secondbass - December 17, 2008
AP says its a team option
Blicks - December 17, 2008
My source: atlantabraves.com
"A Major League source said Wednesday afternoon that he believes the Dodgers have offered Furcal a guaranteed three-year contract with a player option for the 2012 season. "
Not syaing they’re right, but that’s where I got the info.
Here
secondbass - December 17, 2008
from ESPN.com
bigjoe - December 17, 2008
We can get Dunn at a position we need for about the same price. DO IT. NOW.
coldriver10 - December 17, 2008
I want him beaned in his first appearance and taken out on a hard slide to 2nd.
TradeAndruw - December 17, 2008
I hope Escobar is the one that takes him out at second. Hard. Like, spike to the knees and lands on his injured back hard. I will laugh hartily and consume much beer if that happens.
Rhyno18 - December 17, 2008
I'm not calling for a beaning...
but a healthy booing might be in order. And I don’t know if there is anything to the legal question others have raised, but if there is, it should be explored to the extent that we might be monetarily compensated. I wouldn’t want a pissed off Furcal to be forced to play for us because of a legality. But if they had to pay us for treating us like jerks, then I’m for exploring that idea.
RonGantFan - December 17, 2008
And for all those people arguing with me about Frank Wren...
Is there anything else to say…?
rocket8188 - December 17, 2008
i’m not sure what you’re attempting to argue here…
bigjoe - December 17, 2008
I'm not either
scottyboy10 - December 17, 2008
Easy
“Wren "got a voicemail from Kinzer" asking for the term sheet to be put together and faxed to him, which Wren did.”
You don’t do stupid things like faxing over term papers without the guy’s signature in blood first.
VictorW - December 17, 2008
+1
you got me to LOL. good work
bigjoe - December 17, 2008
Beats me????
BBFAN46 - December 18, 2008
We ain't what we used to be
Fire Bobby Cox and hire Dusty Baker!
TradeAndruw - December 17, 2008
Convince Bobby to retire, maybe but,
leave Baker out of this!
BBFAN46 - December 18, 2008
Dusty hell naw
That a boy - December 17, 2008
Compensation
How does the Dodger’s 1st round pick sound? I actually think that, if the contract sheet thing is as “golden” as neutral party exec said it was, then the Braves have a legitimate legal claim. I agree that Furcal being forced to play for the team would be bad (and it was kind-of a square peg/round hole move to begin with) but some monetary/competetive advantage compensation would suit me just fine.
Sign Dunn. Sign Lowe. No muss; no fuss.
Rafael Belliard's SLG % - December 17, 2008
I like this idea. There’s no “legal” justification for the Braves seeking compensation, but this is certainly a breach of baseball etiquette, if not baseball ethics. The commissioner’s office should view this as just as damaging to the game as other collusion-type activities. If this is the way the business of baseball is done, and this trust was violated, then the commissioner’s office has the authority to sanction the Dodgers. But is it really the Dodgers who are at fault here, they may have been told something completely different by Furcal’s agents. I actually think the best punishment is for the commissioner’s office to fine the agents the exact amount of their commission on the Furcal contract. Make it so the agents don’t make any money off of this deal. If money talks, then money pays when you fuck up.
gondeee - December 17, 2008
Exactly
within the governing body of mlb, i think there is a real chance for something to happen if contract sheets are as sacred as we’re being led to believe. if it’s viewed as the equal of a verbal agrement, then that’s bad news for kinzer at the least because, like you said, it’s impossible to know if the dodgers are at fault here.
if the dodgers were unaware of furcal’s contract sheet status, then it’s all on furcal and his representation. if kinzer went to colletti and literally put the braves’ offer sheet in front of him and said “match this” then i think that is enough to bring the dodgers into the legal fray.
i don’t know what that situation would be called in legal terms, but i believe the layman’s term is “fucking bush league”.
Rafael Belliard's SLG % - December 17, 2008
Ok
If the Dodger’s didn’t know about the contract sheet, then I’m Megan Fox and I’m giving bums free head for the next month.
Mark Lempke - December 17, 2008
Well then I really hope the Dodgers didn't know about the contract sheet
VictorW - December 18, 2008
amen
yondaime4 - December 18, 2008
Not only would this mean that Megan Fox is givin out free head, but she’s also a Braves fan for bein on this blog which would officially make her the hottest girl in the universe.
MTSU11 - December 18, 2008
I'm just pissed
At how Furcal’s agents handled the whole matter. They basically gave Wren false hopes that Furcal was returning to the ATL and also used his “offer sheet” so the Dodgers could have a chance to react and in turn resign Raffy.
So I’m not really upset at Raffy, but moreso at his agents for how they handled the situation. Very bush league imo.
ChipperTeixeira89 - December 17, 2008
The funny this is
Kinzer screwed the Braves the first time with Furcal by not coming back to the Braves and giving them a chance to negotiate. Via Sabernomics:
I think he ended up screwing the Cubs too? I hear some Cubs fans signing he was really close to signing with the Cubs (as the above implied) and then went to the Dodges.
VictorW - December 18, 2008
Kinzer sounds like a douchebag.
Smoltz's Beard - December 18, 2008
Nope,
just a lawyer.
BBFAN46 - December 18, 2008
Hey!
Some of us have loved ones who are lawyers. They may be a little douchie, but they’re alright.
buzzdeadwax - December 18, 2008
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