We've been itching for some other names to toss around on the trade front, and today we finally get one, courtesy of MLB.com beat writer Mark Bowman:
[...Braves GM Frank Wren will] likely spend some time talking to his good friend Dave Dombrowski, who could be looking to create funds on the Tigers payroll by dealing 34-year-old outfielder Magglio Ordonez, who is owed $18 million in 2009 and $15 million salaries in 2010 and 2011.
That's an interesting name to throw out there. Before we got TOO serious about this, remember that Bowman is simply speculating here, but occasionally there's something behind that speculation. The times I've been around Bowman and O'Brien while they were interviewing Wren or Schuerholz, they would throw out names of guys they thought might be targets in a trade. While neither GM came out and said yes to most of these guys, sometimes there would be little inclinations or facial expressions that one guy was more favored than another, but never quotable words. This is generally how these kinds of rumors get started, so like it or not, we have to trust that these guys know the GM well enough to know when he's tipping them off (and Bowman's usually a little more conservative with this kind of information than O'Brien). Nonetheless, take these kinds of things with a grain of salt.
A guy like Ordonez would probably be a good fit for the Braves. He's an average left fielder with good pop in his bat, and he's a right-handed hitter which fits well into our heavily left-handed lineup. Mags is also a controlled hitter, who takes a fair number of walks and keeps his strikeouts down.
The contract is a pretty big one, but we have the money to spend this year, and a contract like his that goes down the next two years, when other player's contracts likely increase, will fit well into our payroll for the next few years.
I like this idea. I hadn't considered Mags, but now that I do, even with his injury history, which I think is behind him, he would be a good fit. Here's hoping Wren can work his voodoo on Dombrowski again... hey, maybe we could get another young starting pitcher from him too.
0 recs | 52 comments
because of his obscene contract, the bounty on him shouldn’t be too high…i’m officially INTRIGUED
bigjoe - October 30, 2008
I’m just worried that Dombrowski will want to hose the Braves in any future trades because of the Renteria/Jurrjens-Hernandez trade.
sdp - October 30, 2008
Rents
They’ve got no reason to complain about that trade. They got a front line SS that they needed badly. Just, the whole team got really old really fast. We’ve coughed up some useful pitchers for guys who broke down or just stank.
It’s going to be interesting to see what we can do over the winter. For once we have money and a couple of good young players we can spare (hello, Kelly Johnson) without giving up our top prospects.
Mekons5 - October 30, 2008
this is a strange thought
1. they did not get the front line SS they needed badly. Renteria was no great shakes last year.
but
2. You have a point that they agreed to the deal. I couldn’t believe at the time that they did, especially given the talent they were giving up and what happened last time Renteria gave the AL a shot, and his age.
You have to give wren a lot of credit for that hose job, let’s hope he doesn’t get hosed himself.
son.of.sourman - October 31, 2008
Mags
This rumor has been floating around a lot lately. The Tigers, for some reason, want to get rid of him and go with younger guys. After last year, they’re regretting paying for a bunch of old players (they just released Renteria, for instance) and a Detroit Free Press report said they’d take a good middle relief pitcher for Mags and pay part of his salary to boot.
That mystifies me. I’ve seen him play a lot, living in Chicago, and he’s still a great hitter and decent LF. If we can, snap him up. Unless we can work out a deal for Carlos Lee, he’s probably the best option out there. And he’s a good guy…a fan favorite in both Chicago and Detroit.
Mekons5 - October 30, 2008
Renteria..
..wasn’t released. It was just his option for 11 million wasn’t picked up. There’s a huge difference.
RainDelay - October 30, 2008
Yes I agree
I am a new poster on this site, and hope to become an instant contributor because I love my braves. I think it would be awesome. If the tiggers could throw in 10 million or so, with us having to give up a couple of decent prospects, I think it would be a fair trade. We could then bat maggs between chipper and mccann to create a lot of difficult matchups for opposing managers over the next few years. Also, I would much rather have maggs high contact, high average approach towards hitting than dunn or burrel’s walk,homer,or strikeout approach. WE have the prspects to make a trade workout, and it would definately be a move that would keep us contention as far as our lineup goes. If we could get maggs early on in the offseason, then we could solely focus on our pitching, as our lineup would be strong enough to make us contend for the next few years. BTW, even though I have not posted, I have read this site and the comments for a few years, and am glad to find a site with knowledgeable fans and posters. I hope yall wil think the same of me and accept me as a new contributor to many friendly debates in the near and distant future. GO BRAVOS.
bravesbeast1985 - October 30, 2008
welcome!
10-4 - October 30, 2008
The question is: Would Bobby make him cut the perm?
10-4 - October 30, 2008
the perm
must stay!
ATLandUNC - October 30, 2008
Hope not
He’s like Samson – you cut the perm, and before you know it, he’ll be looking up at Andruw Jones as the worst offensive season ever.
royhobbs - October 31, 2008
The perm should go
Think of how many sweet little birdies could make nests out of that mop.
buzzdeadwax - October 31, 2008
I'm in...
if it doesn’t cost too much in terms of prospects. I don’t expect the Tigers to give him away, but given the salary relief, it shouldn’t cost us more than some low-level guys.
Maggs would be a HUGE addition to our offense, and as noted, we could handle the salary for 3 years. Better than going after any of the free agent OF’s out there.
MikeinAtlanta - October 30, 2008
I would be somewhat hesitent to take Ordonez
because of the length on his contract. Magglio is 34 right now, under contract until he’s 37, and has a bit of a history with injuries. That being said, he doesn’t seem to be suffering at the plate yet. If the price is right, I say go for it.
BraveBronco0121 - October 30, 2008
Don't you just love it when you type somthing out, submit it, and then remember somthing you meant to add?
Mags fielding numbers took a nosedive this year. Another thing to keep in mind when considering his value.
BraveBronco0121 - October 30, 2008
Regarding fielding
Lets not forget that we had Greg Norton in left field last year.
10-4 - October 31, 2008
not everyday tho he was a fill in because we had more people of hte DL then not of the DL
Swo12bv - October 31, 2008
For like a week. Come on, a better argument would be that we had Ryan Klesko in left field for like seven years.
cbwilk - October 31, 2008
Meh...
Bad defense in LF is not something that should factor in to this decision. Bad defense at SS or CF makes a difference, but not LF.
buzzdeadwax - October 31, 2008
Tell that to Mariners fans
re: Raul Ibanez. BTBS had him -17 runs on the year in left. Or Reds fans in regards to Adam Dunn. Or Philly fans in regards to Pat Burrell. I’m not calling it a deal killer, but just looking at the offensive numbers gives you a skewed value of those three players. Magglio is not likely to be on there level yet, as 2008 was his first really bad season in the field, but he is getting older and there’s a chance that he really has slipped that far. Defense in left is not as critical as it is at SS or CF, but it does matter.
BraveBronco0121 - October 31, 2008
Your kidding right?
….Yes bad defense in LF should factor into this decision. Bad defense can cost you as many runs, as that player might help with runs.
RainDelay - November 1, 2008
I'm sorry for disagreeing
But it’s not like Ordonez is catasrophically bad in the OF, right? Or are you just making the general (as well as accurate) statement that bad defense at any position can be costly? But if we’re comparing the possible options for LF next year – Dunn, Burrell, Ibanez, Ordonez, Rivera, Ramirez – which one of those guys is an excellent fielder?
buzzdeadwax - November 2, 2008
From best to worst..
..using John Dewan’s +/- fielding metric.
Rivera -6 (though it should be noted didn’t play much in LF, main RF same #)
Ordonez -11
Dunn -12
Manny -13
Ibanez -18
Dunn -20
RainDelay - November 2, 2008
that -20 belongs to Burrell not Dunn...
RainDelay - November 2, 2008
I'm assuming...
…that the minus is bad? So they’re all mediocre-to-bad fielders. The question is, would it be worthwhile to acquire Ordonez, based upon his salary and the player-cost? Or would a platoon of B. Jones and M. Diaz be a better value, especially considering that the extra cash/prospects can be used for more pitching?
buzzdeadwax - November 3, 2008
Yes minus is bad...
….look at it this way.
Dunn got to twenty less balls than the average LF fielder would get to.
None of those guys on that list are going to be cheap. I’d rather go with the cheaper in house options at this point, unless something can be done via a trade. I’d be comfortable with a B.Jones/Diaz platoon at this point.
I’d just rather not spend the cash on aging/on the downside left fielders that are butchers with a glove too.
RainDelay - November 3, 2008
err...Burrell got to twenty less...
…haven’t had enough coffee yet.
RainDelay - November 3, 2008
Definitely should consider him
If Wren can get him and only let go a couple of lower level pitching prospects in the process, I can still see a Peavy deal going down. Talk about two of the bigger trades that will happen this offseason, for Atlanta.
ChipperTeixeira89 - October 30, 2008
So i guess the big question is
What would it take to get Maggs….They could use depth at SS and in relief, would Kris Medlen and Lillibridge for Maggs be a possiblity if the tigers would throw in ten or so million. Could Acosta be a part of a deal, or B.Jones. I guess one thing that we have to help us in a trade for maggs is that we do have a lot of mid-to-lower level talent in the minors, so we can use that quality depth as a way to help the tigers replentish their system. Use the positions we have a lower level surplus in to get the deal done.
bravesbeast1985 - October 30, 2008
It is highly unlikely that the Tigers would toss in much cash. They’re open to trading Maggs in order to move his contract.
scstrato - October 30, 2008
I like you bringing up Lilli for this trade. Him and a pitcher like Medlen would be a fair return for Detroit, especially if we took on all the salary, which we are in a position to do.
gondeee - October 31, 2008
I could be wrong...
but I thought Mag’s contract was a 1yr/$18mil with two option years at $15mil each, with the first having some sort of buyout. So length of contract is no big deal.
So what about brandon jones and manny acosta for Ordonez and $3mil?
B_Agate - October 31, 2008
05:$6M, 06:$15M, 07:$12M, 08:$15M, 09:$18M, 10:$15M club option ($3M buyout), 11:$15M club option (no buyout)
bigjoe - October 31, 2008
This contract is VERY favorable. It is essentially a one year, high dollar contract that allows the Braves to evaluate Mags and each of the following two years decide whether he is worth $15M. If we have a prospect who actually has a breakout season, then we can let Mags go and use the money elsewhere in future years. The Braves have the money this year, so I love this idea.
KC Ryan - October 31, 2008
Production
I like this option for the Braves. In my opinion, they should agree to take on a considerable portion of his salary, but not have to give up any top flight prospects. While he does not have the power of Dunn, he is much much more productive. Living in Lexington, I watched a lot of Dunn play with the Reds, and he is a horrible outfielder. I also think that he is a significant upgrade over the streaky Pat Burrell as well.
All in all, I would like to see Ordonez in ATL next year, but not if we have to give up any of our blue chip prospects.
dmack - October 31, 2008
Save the money for ...
Junichi Tazawa
JimK - October 31, 2008
whats his status, he is a FA? or are there some kind of special rules on this guy… he seems pretty good, but he could cost serious money, with the sucess of Daisuke…although that could be lessened with the failings of Kei IGawa, and Kosuke Fuk-u-do-me
Swo12bv - October 31, 2008
He's a free agent...
…he (by his request) was not drafted this week in the NPB. This means he’s free to do what ever he wants and he wants to play in the US.
RainDelay - October 31, 2008
I think they should make a run at this guy too, but you have to remember, he’s still very young. He’s 22 and hasn’t played professional baseball and Japan is very different beast than the USA. He’s going to need some time in the minors.
cbwilk - October 31, 2008
7 teams interested
We’re competing with the usual high spenders for the guy, and he’s more at the David Price coming out of college level of experience rather than the established pro level of a Daisuke. Tazawa is 23, hits 97 on the gun, and led Nippon Oil to the corporate league title in Japan this year.
The new Japanese rules state that he cannot return there for three years after bypassing their draft, so he has now in effect committed to the U.S.
Even though he will be costly, he won’t cost us any prospects or team fees and he is approximately the same age as our other top prospects. If we are to reconstruct the Braves dynasty in the 2010 decade, young pitching is where we need to place our bets.
JimK - October 31, 2008
Not a bad acquisition...
I agree with the general opinion that assuming the asking price isn’t much then Mags could be a good price. He could fit nicely into the #3 or 4 hole for the Braves. I don’t think we should expect a return to his 30 HR seasons but his production is typically balanced and .300/.375 with 23-24 Hrs is realistic. I think he would be most valuable hitting 4th, allowing McCann to slide to 5th.
As for his defense…it also gives us some flexibility should Frenchy not bounce back as he could easily play RF for a year or two.
calbers - October 31, 2008
Mags and Japanese talent
I like the idea of picking up Mags—particularly if the price is not too high. Maybe Brandon Jones and another prospect.
Anyway, Tazawa should be pursued—does anybody know the latest is on Yu Darvish, who also looks like a pitcher the Braves should take a close look at….
Stephen in the UAE - October 31, 2008
Darvish
Is obligated to play . .. 4-5 more years before he is allowed to be posted, as per Nippon Baseball rules, which state nine years before jumping is allowed once in.
royhobbs - October 31, 2008
He reminds me a lot of Verlander
Darvish, that is. Very tall and lanky. I’ve not seen a ton of tape on him, but I’ve seen him throw a hard, mid 90s fastball with good lateral movement pretty consistently and a nasty curve that sits in the 80s. This guy is really, really good and would probably be a #2-3 in most MLB rotations right now
BraveBronco0121 - October 31, 2008
Maggs
Hey guys,
We love Maggs here in Detroit. He’s really a fan favorite. He’s a great guy – a clutch hitter.
His fielding isn’t quite as bad as his stats indicate. He’s an average right fielder.
He’s not fast, but makes some good plays on occasion.
I doubt that DD would trade Maggs for a bag of balls. I’m sure he’d want an established
reliever who could possibly be a closer – plus some draft picks. I don’t think Detroit is THAT anxious to dump him. His salary is pretty high, but he’s a really good hitter. He hits to all fields, hits homers in the clutch. The guy is a really really solid player.
The fans here would be really unhappy if Detroit decided to get rid of Ordonez and
if he were traded I’m sure the fans would expect something really good in return.
detroit billee - October 31, 2008
BOYER
bigjoe - October 31, 2008
For what it's worth...
Magglio’s clutch score @Fangraphs is -1.65 for his career. Not that I’m a big believer in clutch hitting as a repeatable skill. Just sayin’.
BraveBronco0121 - October 31, 2008
You lost me at "Clutch"
RainDelay - November 1, 2008
draft picks?
This ain’t football.
B_Agate - November 1, 2008
+1
I don’t know which thought was worse, trading “draft picks” or “hits homers in the clutch”. Good stuff.
scstrato - November 1, 2008
It may just be speculation, but there have been several articles discussing whether Maggs will be moved. Almost all of them speculate it’s a pure salary dump!
scstrato - November 1, 2008
My .02 cents
I brought this idea up a while ago and was really interested in it at the time, but since then I’ve wondered if it would be a good move. Overall the contract plus the two option years aren’t that big of an albatross, but i’m stuck on the 18 mil we’d have to fork over for 2009. That is a big chunk of money we’ve allocated to spend on FA’s and whomever we acquire in trades. The problem is I don’t see Detroit eating any of the salary, they’ve openly admitted they want to cut payroll. Now if they were to eat say 3/4 mil and still not ask for much back in a trade, I’d probably be a little more open to it.
scstrato - November 1, 2008
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