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Talking Chop

Is there an Alternative to Non-Tendering Marcus Giles?

That is the question that looms over the head of John Schuerholz as the Tuesday non-tender deadline approaches. First of all there are very few teams that need a second baseman, and secondly there are even fewer who would be willing to pay Giles what he will likely get after arbitration. There is apparently no trade market for Giles, as has been expressed by several reporters, and which is now rather obvious seeing as how unloading him was one of our priorities this off-season. So if we can't trade Giles, what other options do we have?

Trading Tim Hudson would certainly clear enough payroll space for Giles to be affordable. The Giants could be a team interested in the services of someone like Hudson. They have lost out on all the free agent starters they have tried to sign this winter and may be in need of acquiring someone to fill the void. Hudson had success across the bay in Oakland, and there might be some in the Giants front office who would buy into the belief that a return to the bay area is just what Huddy needs.

It was suggested in a TC diary that we try and trade Edgar Renteria and use one of our young shortstops as a fill-in. If we go with Tony Pena Jr, then the offensive production from that spot takes a huge dive (but would it be a dive equal to that which we would take with any in-house replacement for Giles). Yunel Escobar could be a possible fill in for Renteria, but he's still not polished defensively and could cost the Braves in the fielding department at short. But offensively we could ask the question; if we were thinking of replacing Giles with Escobar anyway, why not replace Renteria with Escobar. Other than those two, there are no other viable Major League ready options in the Braves system to replace Renteria with at shortstop.

But would there even be a market for Renteria? Shortstop is traditionally a tougher position to fill, and it's not like we would be asking that much in return for Edgar, just a solid prospect or above average reliever to mainly get one of the big salaries off our books. Trading Renteria would also give us even more flexibility the following year when both Renteria's and Giles' salaries would be off our books (can you say more money to sign Andruw). The Cubs, Blue Jays, Astros, Twins, and our good friends the Mariners might be interested in an upgrade at the shortstop position.

Hudson and Renteria are really the only two options to trade to try and find salary space, everyone else is a 10 and 5 man who would reject any trade (Andruw, Chipper, Smoltz) or is untradable because they are coming off of an injury (Hampton). So we are faced with three options; (1) non-tender Giles and hope someone like the Mets don't pick him up, (2) trade him away for any sort of Scalamandre you can (he was the guy we got in exchange for Sosa), or (3) try and trade Renteria or Hudson to free up salary room to keep Giles. You never want to just give up a player - heck we found takers for Millwood, for Sosa, for Kolb, surely someone would want Giles. Well, not exactly, and here's why. Everyone in baseball knows that the Braves can't afford Giles and that they are more than likely going to non-tender him a contract on Tuesday, and so all they have to do is wait and try to sign him after we dump him.

Believe it or not, it seems like we could get the most value in exchange for Hudson - a trade that I think we should seriously consider. Now that the Marquis and Meches and Mussinas are off the market, there might be some teams that are more than willing to overspend in a trade the way they've been overspending on the free agent market - look at what we just got from Seattle in exchange for a "starter." So to the teams that lost out on the top, middle, and lower rung of starting pitching, Tim Hudson and his quasi-reasonable contract might be very attractive. I say try and rekindle some sort of trade of Tim Hudson, and keep Giles. It just doesn't seem right to throw away a player like Giles who has meant so much to this team and to the fans. If we can't trade Giles then trade one of the other guys, get something in return, and find someone to play left field and lead off.

0 recs  |  13 comments

Comments

Good Article
Nice change of pace and look around for possibilities.
Worth exploring
Great article... I think shopping Hudson is worth exloring.  Now is probably the best time as any, with many of the free agent starters being snatched up over the last week.  Which attractive starters remain available?  Suppan?  Weaver?

You'd have to think if we traded Hudson this would nix the Baldelli deal provided the D-Rays refuse to deal him without James or Davies included.  I really thought Giles was on the way out last month and that he would most likely land in San Diego, perhaps in exchange for Linebrink.  But with the demand for relievers the way it is, it's apparent that is no longer a possibility.

Giles is great for the team because he is such a great clubhouse presence and because of his constant hustle and hard play (honestly, who else do you see getting taken out at 2nd base more than Giles?).  But if Hudson is not moved before Tuesday, my guess is we'll non-tender Marcus.

I guess I would agree with the move (provided we can't move him beforehand) rather than trade Renteria just because shortstop appears to be a more difficult position to adequately fill... although I can see the argument for trading either.

trade possibility
Why not trade Hudson to Tampa Bay for Baldeli and a prospect.
Giles
is there any way we non tender him and then convince him to sign for less. Also, Bill James is prejecting him to hit around .280 with 15 HRs. Something to keep in mind which I am sure JS has seen
Marcus, Tim, etc.
I like Marcus Giles as much as most Braves fan do, but he'd be a $6M 8-hitter in Atlanta next year.  Non-tendering Giles is a better option than trading Rentaria for cents on the dollar, even though I can see him turning things around batting second in the Mets line-up next year.  As for a potential Tim Hudson trade, I've tied two rumors together and I'd like to know what you guys think of it:

Baltimore gets SP Tim Hudson
Tampa Bay gets SP Hayden Penn, C Jarrod Saltalamachia and SS Yunel Escobar
Atlanta gets OF Rocco Baldelli

The Orioles appear willing to take on expensive reclamation projects with reasonable upsides, the Braves get their leadoff hitter in LF for 2007 (one who could take over CF if Andruw leaves after next season) and the Devil Rays get three, young players/prospects while making room in their OF for their own potential superstars.  Thoughts?

Very Nice
The problem here is that Baltimore's probably not getting enough, and they are another team that really wants Baldelli, so I can't see them helping the Braves acquire him by dealing their second best pitching prospect. But from a Braves stand point it looks SWEET, though we give up three great players (with potential) and we get back one. But the general gist of the trade has some intrigue and appeal.

However we can get Baldelli and not give up James or Davies would seem to be a win-win.

Resign
I think if you non-tender someone, there's pretty much no chance of you signing him again - very slim at least. The loyalty has been broken, especially in this circumstance when there are no other factors like injuries to take into account - it's purely monetary. My biggest fear is that the Mets go after him hard. Giles would be a huge upgrade over Jose Valentin, and the Mets have never shyed away from throwing it in the Braves faces - Glavine, Franco. It would be the worst possible outcome. The better non-tender outcome would be for Giles to sign a nice little deal with San Diego, but I think New York and San Diego are the two possible destinations if he becomes a free agent. Maybe KC, simply because of Dayton Moore and his newfound supply of Meth, err, I mean Meche.
It'll suck if...
we have to non-tender giles. what other team has to non-tender an all-star caliber player? that really sucks. i can't honestly say, though, that i'd rather non-tender renteria or hudson or anyone else in our line up. there's gotta be something JS can do. that's why he gets paid the big bucks!
Giles
What this interesting posting has shown is that the Braves made the mistake of holding onto Giles--they should have parted with him during the summer.

We cannot trade Hudson because the Braves' starting pitching is already weak.  A rotation of Smoltz, Hampton and James is simply not adequate.  I like Davies as much as anyone, but he got lit up almost everytime he pitched last season.  Neither Davies nor Lerew can be counted on.

Despite the way he tailed off at the end of the season, Renteria is a valuable player that I am sure the Braves would prefer to keep.

My solution would be to make Giles part of another deal--either to acquire Baldelli or improve pitching.

Clearly, the options are not promising and we do not want to see Marcus resurrect his career in a Mets' uniform.

The rotation....
....is weak without Hudson...I agree!  I mean Hudson is a veteran starter who I believe will turn things around.  It's amazing all the 'trade Hudson' talk.  Smoltz, Hampton, Hudson, James, and Davies (with Cormier or Villareal in an emergency) is a pretty good rotation!  You take out Hudson and suddenly the two youngsters (James and Davies) look a little bit scarier, especially having to then rely on Villareal and Cormier to anchor the thing.  
Any scenario, I hope we can keep Hudson, unless JS is somehow able to magically pull a reliable veteran starter out of the hat, which I guess is possible.
I also hope we can keep Giles.  If we want to get rid of him so badly, I say wait until July and trade him to a team whose 2B has flopped and actually get something in return.

What happened to the money Chipper freed up that we never spent last year????  Wasn't it $6 million?  Spend it on Giles!

Bob Wickman
got the $6 million
oh yeah...
well, it was worth it..
tuesday morning...
no word on giles yet, and it's tuesday morning. i'm thinking we're just letting him float away...

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